Does anyone have a sibling they may one day be responsible for?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was a case worker for mentally I’ll older people, and things are much more stable for people who own their home. People who rent or live in governement housing can be evicted, and landlords will work to evict mentally ill people who are disruptive, don’t pay the rent, frighten others, hoard, etc. You can’t take away someone’s housing for those things if they own it!

Could you buy her a tiny house so she’ll have a place to live? That would reduce substantially her risk of homelessness.

As a PP said, I institutionalization isn’t a thing anymore for the mentally ill. It is for the developmentally delayed or those with physical impairments that prevent self care (like eating and toileting). She should already be on disability - if not, work on that.

This is good advice and the pp that mentioned letting her have mother's home if she owns it - great idea. Likely she WILL need to live on her own until there are other reasons so living in mom's home would give her a stable spot. Ways you could help would be things like - paying for people to come take care of the yard once a month, having someone come clean and generally doing some house upkeep so the house doesn't fall into TOTAL disrepair as she likely won't be able to keep up with all of that and will lead to a better quality of life for her if it's taken care of and she can just focus on groceries, etc. Also, it's possible that her daughter will provide a very supportive role if she is 20+ when this happens. Though it would be VERY kind of you to help her navigate it, and potentially provide some funds if you are able so that her mom's quality of life can stay ok.

[Anonymous]

I just saw she doesn't own the property but yes buying her a small place and helping her keep it up. And hopefully this just doesn't happen for long, unless there is something acute hopefully mom will live for awhile (it sounded like maybe congestive heart failure? That can take a long time). You could have a home health aid come in. They aren't cheap but that would help with some of those activities of daily living. Totally understand the worry about her living in squalor, I think you could put in some supports so that it wouldn't be that htough it may not be to the level of quality you would be comfortable with yourself.

[Anonymous]

We have a lot of mental illness in my family.

I highly recommend do what is easiest on you.

Commitment for mental illness no longer exists in the US other than 1-3 days short term.

Why do you want conservatorship? If there is no money there and she does not want to be on meds I question even seeking conservatorship. Why subject yourself to the hassle?

Why can't she live alone in MIL's house? You'd be surprised what the mentally ill can accomplish when they need to.
Have someone pay the taxes once a year, utilities monthly and get a grocery delivery service weekly. Can SIL walk to a grocery store?

Depending upon how long your Mom lives a lot of the decisions may fall to the daughter. Daughter, when 18 might not go away to college or might not move with Dad.
It is hard to say. Certainly the daughter would have a strong say in any decisions.

I'd look into getting her on medicaid, disability and food stamps now. This is probably much easier while Mom is alive.

What is MIL's housing situation? It is probably easier to keep her in MIL's house.

It is not necessarily a bad thing for SIL to call the cops. Many times the cops will get services linked up with SIL. It is not necessarily a bad thing if someone calls emergency and she ends up in emergency care. A lot depends upon what state she is in but there is a fair amount of services out there.

It is not illegal to have mental illness. It is not illegal to choose not to treat your mental illness. It is not illegal to live an odd lifestyle.

This will most likely be a journey. The daughter is the one who will need a lot of support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a case worker for mentally I’ll older people, and things are much more stable for people who own their home. People who rent or live in governement housing can be evicted, and landlords will work to evict mentally ill people who are disruptive, don’t pay the rent, frighten others, hoard, etc. You can’t take away someone’s housing for those things if they own it!

Could you buy her a tiny house so she’ll have a place to live? That would reduce substantially her risk of homelessness.

As a PP said, I institutionalization isn’t a thing anymore for the mentally ill. It is for the developmentally delayed or those with physical impairments that prevent self care (like eating and toileting). She should already be on disability - if not, work on that.

This is good advice and the pp that mentioned letting her have mother's home if she owns it - great idea. Likely she WILL need to live on her own until there are other reasons so living in mom's home would give her a stable spot. Ways you could help would be things like - paying for people to come take care of the yard once a month, having someone come clean and generally doing some house upkeep so the house doesn't fall into TOTAL disrepair as she likely won't be able to keep up with all of that and will lead to a better quality of life for her if it's taken care of and she can just focus on groceries, etc. Also, it's possible that her daughter will provide a very supportive role if she is 20+ when this happens. Though it would be VERY kind of you to help her navigate it, and potentially provide some funds if you are able so that her mom's quality of life can stay ok.

My husband and I would like to avoid her daughter having to take care of her. We have seen what a burden that can be. Given the location of their town and the economy there it would basically mean the daughter would give up her life. She is so smart and deserves every chance to go to college (we are paying for her to go to college). I just don't want her stuck in this very poor rural town with nothing to do for the rest of her mom's life. I also think she already resents her mom as she has been essentially been the adult in their relationship her entire life so far (she helps makes sure her mom eats). I don't know it just sucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have a lot of mental illness in my family.

I highly recommend do what is easiest on you.

Commitment for mental illness no longer exists in the US other than 1-3 days short term.

Why do you want conservatorship? If there is no money there and she does not want to be on meds I question even seeking conservatorship. Why subject yourself to the hassle?

Why can't she live alone in MIL's house? You'd be surprised what the mentally ill can accomplish when they need to.
Have someone pay the taxes once a year, utilities monthly and get a grocery delivery service weekly. Can SIL walk to a grocery store?

Depending upon how long your Mom lives a lot of the decisions may fall to the daughter. Daughter, when 18 might not go away to college or might not move with Dad.
It is hard to say. Certainly the daughter would have a strong say in any decisions.

I'd look into getting her on medicaid, disability and food stamps now. This is probably much easier while Mom is alive.

What is MIL's housing situation? It is probably easier to keep her in MIL's house.

It is not necessarily a bad thing for SIL to call the cops. Many times the cops will get services linked up with SIL. It is not necessarily a bad thing if someone calls emergency and she ends up in emergency care. A lot depends upon what state she is in but there is a fair amount of services out there.

It is not illegal to have mental illness. It is not illegal to choose not to treat your mental illness. It is not illegal to live an odd lifestyle.

This will most likely be a journey. The daughter is the one who will need a lot of support.

Thank you for your response. You are right, I know it is not illegal to have a mental illness or refuse to medicate it, but man it is frustrating. I have seen times where she decides to medicate and she turns around and is stable and it gives us hope and then it all comes crashing down. It is exhausting.

I just feel so bad that MIL is burdened with all of this now. She lost her husband somewhat unexpectedly in September and SIL has gotten so much worse since then. MIL hasn't even had time to grieve and I think her heart issues are impacted by that. I worry she is depressed (from the way she talked, she basically just told me she is ready to die, she is only 64). But she told me it was because everything is just so hard now. I just wish we could provide more support. It is hard being away.

[Anonymous]

I'm the 12:57 poster.

I'm sorry I did not read some of your updates.

I like the idea of a little house. Pay the taxes once a year, pay the utilities and get a food delivery once a week.

You SIL may qualify for aids paid by the government. She may qualify for this now. They would come around 4-6-8 hours a day. The standards won't be up to how you live but it will be better than living in a car.

Another option is a group home. This may be more of a long shot due to the mental health issues.

The more separation you and the daughter have the healthier it will be for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the 12:57 poster.

I'm sorry I did not read some of your updates.

I like the idea of a little house. Pay the taxes once a year, pay the utilities and get a food delivery once a week.

You SIL may qualify for aids paid by the government. She may qualify for this now. They would come around 4-6-8 hours a day. The standards won't be up to how you live but it will be better than living in a car.

Another option is a group home. This may be more of a long shot due to the mental health issues.

The more separation you and the daughter have the healthier it will be for you.

The group home idea is interesting, but it doesn't appear any exist in her town. The town is pretty small 19K people and per capita income of 13K. I will look into aides through government programs, but given its rural TX probably minimal options. But thanks that is something I hadn't thought about before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a case worker for mentally I’ll older people, and things are much more stable for people who own their home. People who rent or live in governement housing can be evicted, and landlords will work to evict mentally ill people who are disruptive, don’t pay the rent, frighten others, hoard, etc. You can’t take away someone’s housing for those things if they own it!

Could you buy her a tiny house so she’ll have a place to live? That would reduce substantially her risk of homelessness.

As a PP said, I institutionalization isn’t a thing anymore for the mentally ill. It is for the developmentally delayed or those with physical impairments that prevent self care (like eating and toileting). She should already be on disability - if not, work on that.

This is good advice and the pp that mentioned letting her have mother's home if she owns it - great idea. Likely she WILL need to live on her own until there are other reasons so living in mom's home would give her a stable spot. Ways you could help would be things like - paying for people to come take care of the yard once a month, having someone come clean and generally doing some house upkeep so the house doesn't fall into TOTAL disrepair as she likely won't be able to keep up with all of that and will lead to a better quality of life for her if it's taken care of and she can just focus on groceries, etc. Also, it's possible that her daughter will provide a very supportive role if she is 20+ when this happens. Though it would be VERY kind of you to help her navigate it, and potentially provide some funds if you are able so that her mom's quality of life can stay ok.

My husband and I would like to avoid her daughter having to take care of her. We have seen what a burden that can be. Given the location of their town and the economy there it would basically mean the daughter would give up her life. She is so smart and deserves every chance to go to college (we are paying for her to go to college). I just don't want her stuck in this very poor rural town with nothing to do for the rest of her mom's life. I also think she already resents her mom as she has been essentially been the adult in their relationship her entire life so far (she helps makes sure her mom eats). I don't know it just sucks.

Pp here. It really does suck op, I'm so sorry. For all of you (sister very much included). I appreciate this and is a great thing to provide your support to sister and niece so that niece isn't completely burdened by this. It is possible that daughter will still WANT to have more interaction and involvement than you anticipate. It may not be the case, but in many cases especially for a child that has been parentified like you describe, the entanglement can sometimes be a lot AND at the end of the day she will be considered the closest relative once she's over 18 (and in most states the power of attorney by default unless new forms are signed) so, you may want to prepare yourself to support her and let her be involved in some of the decisions. If you all are taking on much of this (having groceries delivered, having someone take care of the yard) it can take a burden off. And it may still be tough for your niece to leave. Mostly I just want to say keep your expectations to a minimum and try to go in with the understanding that this will likely be very complicated for your niece, despite your generous offer to pay for college so be empathic as she navigates this and tries to learn how to have boundaries with her mom.

The pp above had some good advice and I wanted to say is there a reason instead of buying a new property that when mother dies you could just pay off the mortgage of the current property? It may be a lot easier on your SIL to remain in the place she knows and is comfortable and easier on all of you than trying to move her. It's just something to consider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a case worker for mentally I’ll older people, and things are much more stable for people who own their home. People who rent or live in governement housing can be evicted, and landlords will work to evict mentally ill people who are disruptive, don’t pay the rent, frighten others, hoard, etc. You can’t take away someone’s housing for those things if they own it!

Could you buy her a tiny house so she’ll have a place to live? That would reduce substantially her risk of homelessness.

As a PP said, I institutionalization isn’t a thing anymore for the mentally ill. It is for the developmentally delayed or those with physical impairments that prevent self care (like eating and toileting). She should already be on disability - if not, work on that.

This is good advice and the pp that mentioned letting her have mother's home if she owns it - great idea. Likely she WILL need to live on her own until there are other reasons so living in mom's home would give her a stable spot. Ways you could help would be things like - paying for people to come take care of the yard once a month, having someone come clean and generally doing some house upkeep so the house doesn't fall into TOTAL disrepair as she likely won't be able to keep up with all of that and will lead to a better quality of life for her if it's taken care of and she can just focus on groceries, etc. Also, it's possible that her daughter will provide a very supportive role if she is 20+ when this happens. Though it would be VERY kind of you to help her navigate it, and potentially provide some funds if you are able so that her mom's quality of life can stay ok.

My husband and I would like to avoid her daughter having to take care of her. We have seen what a burden that can be. Given the location of their town and the economy there it would basically mean the daughter would give up her life. She is so smart and deserves every chance to go to college (we are paying for her to go to college). I just don't want her stuck in this very poor rural town with nothing to do for the rest of her mom's life. I also think she already resents her mom as she has been essentially been the adult in their relationship her entire life so far (she helps makes sure her mom eats). I don't know it just sucks.

Pp here. It really does suck op, I'm so sorry. For all of you (sister very much included). I appreciate this and is a great thing to provide your support to sister and niece so that niece isn't completely burdened by this. It is possible that daughter will still WANT to have more interaction and involvement than you anticipate. It may not be the case, but in many cases especially for a child that has been parentified like you describe, the entanglement can sometimes be a lot AND at the end of the day she will be considered the closest relative once she's over 18 (and in most states the power of attorney by default unless new forms are signed) so, you may want to prepare yourself to support her and let her be involved in some of the decisions. If you all are taking on much of this (having groceries delivered, having someone take care of the yard) it can take a burden off. And it may still be tough for your niece to leave. Mostly I just want to say keep your expectations to a minimum and try to go in with the understanding that this will likely be very complicated for your niece, despite your generous offer to pay for college so be empathic as she navigates this and tries to learn how to have boundaries with her mom.

The pp above had some good advice and I wanted to say is there a reason instead of buying a new property that when mother dies you could just pay off the mortgage of the current property? It may be a lot easier on your SIL to remain in the place she knows and is comfortable and easier on all of you than trying to move her. It's just something to consider.

Mainly just the size of the property (and it I kind of old and not in the best of shape). But it is a large house with a large yard so it seems like a lot to take care of.

[Anonymous]

pp the potential for home care through the state would be through a Medicaid waiver, just to help you get started. Each state has different types of medicaid waivers so it's complex (and therefore some states have more services than others). I don't know Texas but given the politics of the state, usually those states will unfortunately have the least services available (and the most poverty!) and you are right finding services in the small town is another barrier. Thinking creatively - when the time comes, maybe you all pay out of pocket to someone in the town to do some of the general upkeep. If you could find someone trustworthy who needs extra income since it sounds like many there struggle.

But like we said first steps are Medicaid, food stamps, and disability so she has some income coming in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a case worker for mentally I’ll older people, and things are much more stable for people who own their home. People who rent or live in governement housing can be evicted, and landlords will work to evict mentally ill people who are disruptive, don’t pay the rent, frighten others, hoard, etc. You can’t take away someone’s housing for those things if they own it!

Could you buy her a tiny house so she’ll have a place to live? That would reduce substantially her risk of homelessness.

As a PP said, I institutionalization isn’t a thing anymore for the mentally ill. It is for the developmentally delayed or those with physical impairments that prevent self care (like eating and toileting). She should already be on disability - if not, work on that.

This is good advice and the pp that mentioned letting her have mother's home if she owns it - great idea. Likely she WILL need to live on her own until there are other reasons so living in mom's home would give her a stable spot. Ways you could help would be things like - paying for people to come take care of the yard once a month, having someone come clean and generally doing some house upkeep so the house doesn't fall into TOTAL disrepair as she likely won't be able to keep up with all of that and will lead to a better quality of life for her if it's taken care of and she can just focus on groceries, etc. Also, it's possible that her daughter will provide a very supportive role if she is 20+ when this happens. Though it would be VERY kind of you to help her navigate it, and potentially provide some funds if you are able so that her mom's quality of life can stay ok.

My husband and I would like to avoid her daughter having to take care of her. We have seen what a burden that can be. Given the location of their town and the economy there it would basically mean the daughter would give up her life. She is so smart and deserves every chance to go to college (we are paying for her to go to college). I just don't want her stuck in this very poor rural town with nothing to do for the rest of her mom's life. I also think she already resents her mom as she has been essentially been the adult in their relationship her entire life so far (she helps makes sure her mom eats). I don't know it just sucks.

Pp here. It really does suck op, I'm so sorry. For all of you (sister very much included). I appreciate this and is a great thing to provide your support to sister and niece so that niece isn't completely burdened by this. It is possible that daughter will still WANT to have more interaction and involvement than you anticipate. It may not be the case, but in many cases especially for a child that has been parentified like you describe, the entanglement can sometimes be a lot AND at the end of the day she will be considered the closest relative once she's over 18 (and in most states the power of attorney by default unless new forms are signed) so, you may want to prepare yourself to support her and let her be involved in some of the decisions. If you all are taking on much of this (having groceries delivered, having someone take care of the yard) it can take a burden off. And it may still be tough for your niece to leave. Mostly I just want to say keep your expectations to a minimum and try to go in with the understanding that this will likely be very complicated for your niece, despite your generous offer to pay for college so be empathic as she navigates this and tries to learn how to have boundaries with her mom.

The pp above had some good advice and I wanted to say is there a reason instead of buying a new property that when mother dies you could just pay off the mortgage of the current property? It may be a lot easier on your SIL to remain in the place she knows and is comfortable and easier on all of you than trying to move her. It's just something to consider.

Mainly just the size of the property (and it I kind of old and not in the best of shape). But it is a large house with a large yard so it seems like a lot to take care of.

ok that makes total sense! Buying her a small place somewhere else does sound way more reasonable but will still give her stability without a landlord etc.

[Anonymous]

OP, NAMI provides online (they may be back to in-person) resources for families that are dealing with mentally ill family members. This is typically peer support, but it can at least get you started on local resources and thinking about what the future may look like.

Connecting your MIL with an attorney who deals with special needs trusts is another thing to consider.

I would focus on ways to help and support your niece. It will ultimately be her job to figure out how to help and support her mother.

[Anonymous]

meant op not pp up there*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:pp the potential for home care through the state would be through a Medicaid waiver, just to help you get started. Each state has different types of medicaid waivers so it's complex (and therefore some states have more services than others). I don't know Texas but given the politics of the state, usually those states will unfortunately have the least services available (and the most poverty!) and you are right finding services in the small town is another barrier. Thinking creatively - when the time comes, maybe you all pay out of pocket to someone in the town to do some of the general upkeep. If you could find someone trustworthy who needs extra income since it sounds like many there struggle.

But like we said first steps are Medicaid, food stamps, and disability so she has some income coming in.

She does already have Medicaid, food stamps, and disability. She used to have TANF (But I think they cut off after a few years). MIL has access to the food stamps so she is able to use those for groceries. She gets disability, but obviously only SSI so that income is minimal. Thank you for the advice on waivers. I will look into it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a case worker for mentally I’ll older people, and things are much more stable for people who own their home. People who rent or live in governement housing can be evicted, and landlords will work to evict mentally ill people who are disruptive, don’t pay the rent, frighten others, hoard, etc. You can’t take away someone’s housing for those things if they own it!

Could you buy her a tiny house so she’ll have a place to live? That would reduce substantially her risk of homelessness.

As a PP said, I institutionalization isn’t a thing anymore for the mentally ill. It is for the developmentally delayed or those with physical impairments that prevent self care (like eating and toileting). She should already be on disability - if not, work on that.

This is good advice and the pp that mentioned letting her have mother's home if she owns it - great idea. Likely she WILL need to live on her own until there are other reasons so living in mom's home would give her a stable spot. Ways you could help would be things like - paying for people to come take care of the yard once a month, having someone come clean and generally doing some house upkeep so the house doesn't fall into TOTAL disrepair as she likely won't be able to keep up with all of that and will lead to a better quality of life for her if it's taken care of and she can just focus on groceries, etc. Also, it's possible that her daughter will provide a very supportive role if she is 20+ when this happens. Though it would be VERY kind of you to help her navigate it, and potentially provide some funds if you are able so that her mom's quality of life can stay ok.

My husband and I would like to avoid her daughter having to take care of her. We have seen what a burden that can be. Given the location of their town and the economy there it would basically mean the daughter would give up her life. She is so smart and deserves every chance to go to college (we are paying for her to go to college). I just don't want her stuck in this very poor rural town with nothing to do for the rest of her mom's life. I also think she already resents her mom as she has been essentially been the adult in their relationship her entire life so far (she helps makes sure her mom eats). I don't know it just sucks.

Pp here. It really does suck op, I'm so sorry. For all of you (sister very much included). I appreciate this and is a great thing to provide your support to sister and niece so that niece isn't completely burdened by this. It is possible that daughter will still WANT to have more interaction and involvement than you anticipate. It may not be the case, but in many cases especially for a child that has been parentified like you describe, the entanglement can sometimes be a lot AND at the end of the day she will be considered the closest relative once she's over 18 (and in most states the power of attorney by default unless new forms are signed) so, you may want to prepare yourself to support her and let her be involved in some of the decisions. If you all are taking on much of this (having groceries delivered, having someone take care of the yard) it can take a burden off. And it may still be tough for your niece to leave. Mostly I just want to say keep your expectations to a minimum and try to go in with the understanding that this will likely be very complicated for your niece, despite your generous offer to pay for college so be empathic as she navigates this and tries to learn how to have boundaries with her mom.

The pp above had some good advice and I wanted to say is there a reason instead of buying a new property that when mother dies you could just pay off the mortgage of the current property? It may be a lot easier on your SIL to remain in the place she knows and is comfortable and easier on all of you than trying to move her. It's just something to consider.

Mainly just the size of the property (and it I kind of old and not in the best of shape). But it is a large house with a large yard so it seems like a lot to take care of.

ok that makes total sense! Buying her a small place somewhere else does sound way more reasonable but will still give her stability without a landlord etc.

It does not necessarily make sense for OP to buy a property for her SIL (or to have property or any assets in her name). I know you are trying to give well-intentioned advice, but I am guessing this is not a situation you have actually dealt with.