Why did BOE not demand Financial Literacy Graduation Requirement

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a horrible idea. I don’t think a kid who will be out of the system in a year soon is in the best position to make the case. She did it for the college essay. If we allow every SMOB to mandate a “necessary” class- please help us.

My husband would love every kid to learn how to change a tire, fix a law mower etc. my MIL thinks home Econ should be mandatory. Where does it end? Some things kids can learn outside of school.

That is really insulting to Ms O’Looney. She did a better job this year of asking questions of administrators and communicating with the public than most, if not all, the adult board members. Financial literacy is a real thing that can have way more of an impact on one’s life, and one’s children’s lives, than any other subject taught at school. There’s a TON of companies that prey on people who don’t know anything about finances, and it leads to debt that people can almost never get out from under. Kids can get trapped on Day 1 of becoming an adult if they go out and sign up for credit cards, loans… go to payday lenders… and not understand what they’re getting into.

There are also a lot of people who prey on those who don’t know how to fix cars, understand their heating system, work on their mowers etc. Financial literacy is important and I think they can fit a lot of that into middle school/HS health requirements etc. The whole idea of a SMOB with full voting rights irks me to no end. All of them are more concerned about their college application then what happens at MCPS long term which is why it’s dumb they get a vote.

But not knowing how to do those things won’t result in you having to declare bankruptcy. Sure, there are dishonest repair people, but one or two ripoffs doesn’t end up chaining you to payments for years and years. I can easily just go to another mechanic. There are tons of people (myself included) who don’t know how to change their oil or fix their lawn mower. That isn’t what got me into financial trouble. What got me into trouble as a young person was not understanding minimum payments and where to put money to start saving for retirement. I had no idea what long term insurance was, or how life insurance worked, or what to do with a 401k, or how much my student loans would cost, and how those payments hanging over my head would force me to make decisions about the type of work I could accept in the beginning of my career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If MCPS was kicking the can down the road, my interpretation of the reason was because the Maryland Blueprint for Excellence may have unintended consequences, and MCPS was reluctant to add an extra graduation requirement that may make it harder for some students to graduate. It is good content, but requiring a semester class is a narrow approach that may not work.

yes- this is what convinced them.

Again, misses the point -- MCPS didn't bother to prepare any alternatives to an in-class requirement, which they knew would be voted down, in line with their recommendation. They effectively abandoned a good idea -- ensuring that graduates have an understanding of personal finance -- with the straw man of that having to be accomplished only with a class. O'Looney and one or two others were left to try to construct a solution on the spot, themselves, offering amendments to try to incorporate ideas like SSL hours or the like. Of course, the other BOE members could then vote against these, saying that they hadn't been evaluated by MCPS staff, which the MCPS professionals/higher-ups know should have been part of their preparation/presentation in the first place.

Absolutely shameful.

Actually there were several alternatives included in the document presented at the meeting, including: a personal finance elective, an online financial literacy course, quantitative literacy, and financial literacy modules:

https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/CF3T5R75BAC9/$file/Financial%20Literacy%20Recommendation%20220607.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If MCPS was kicking the can down the road, my interpretation of the reason was because the Maryland Blueprint for Excellence may have unintended consequences, and MCPS was reluctant to add an extra graduation requirement that may make it harder for some students to graduate. It is good content, but requiring a semester class is a narrow approach that may not work.

yes- this is what convinced them.

Again, misses the point -- MCPS didn't bother to prepare any alternatives to an in-class requirement, which they knew would be voted down, in line with their recommendation. They effectively abandoned a good idea -- ensuring that graduates have an understanding of personal finance -- with the straw man of that having to be accomplished only with a class. O'Looney and one or two others were left to try to construct a solution on the spot, themselves, offering amendments to try to incorporate ideas like SSL hours or the like. Of course, the other BOE members could then vote against these, saying that they hadn't been evaluated by MCPS staff, which the MCPS professionals/higher-ups know should have been part of their preparation/presentation in the first place.

Absolutely shameful.

Actually there were several alternatives included in the document presented at the meeting, including: a personal finance elective, an online financial literacy course, quantitative literacy, and financial literacy modules:

https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/CF3T5R75BAC9/$file/Financial%20Literacy%20Recommendation%20220607.pdf

I hope you and others bother to read the memo. The only deep dive was into a credit-bearing requirement and the resulting negative impact on electives; the survey table shows opinion only about this option. Implementations elsewhere were viewed with a jaundiced eye, at best, and they cast the issue as one made difficult by diversity instead of one for which diversity created a great need.

They paid lip service to the need, and they spent a few sentences on non-ctedit options, including SSL, but did not provide any deep analysis to support these in lieu of a class to the level that would be difficult to dismiss by other BOE members. Instead, they recommended a no-requirement recognition at graduation. The very population that would benefit most from having learned robust financial literacy is the population that is least likely to opt for non-requirement recognition.

Again -- they didn't properly prepare alternatives for consideration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s a horrible idea. I don’t think a kid who will be out of the system in a year soon is in the best position to make the case. She did it for the college essay. If we allow every SMOB to mandate a “necessary” class- please help us.

My husband would love every kid to learn how to change a tire, fix a law mower etc. my MIL thinks home Econ should be mandatory. Where does it end? Some things kids can learn outside of school.

It's a fantastic idea, and it's a shame that the BOE didn't move forward with it. Financial literacy is one of the most important skills that people need to succeed in the world. Even the top performers in HS often don't really understand the consequences of many normal financial decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a horrible idea. I don’t think a kid who will be out of the system in a year soon is in the best position to make the case. She did it for the college essay. If we allow every SMOB to mandate a “necessary” class- please help us.

My husband would love every kid to learn how to change a tire, fix a law mower etc. my MIL thinks home Econ should be mandatory. Where does it end? Some things kids can learn outside of school.

That is really insulting to Ms O’Looney. She did a better job this year of asking questions of administrators and communicating with the public than most, if not all, the adult board members. Financial literacy is a real thing that can have way more of an impact on one’s life, and one’s children’s lives, than any other subject taught at school. There’s a TON of companies that prey on people who don’t know anything about finances, and it leads to debt that people can almost never get out from under. Kids can get trapped on Day 1 of becoming an adult if they go out and sign up for credit cards, loans… go to payday lenders… and not understand what they’re getting into.

There are also a lot of people who prey on those who don’t know how to fix cars, understand their heating system, work on their mowers etc. Financial literacy is important and I think they can fit a lot of that into middle school/HS health requirements etc. The whole idea of a SMOB with full voting rights irks me to no end. All of them are more concerned about their college application then what happens at MCPS long term which is why it’s dumb they get a vote.

But not knowing how to do those things won’t result in you having to declare bankruptcy. Sure, there are dishonest repair people, but one or two ripoffs doesn’t end up chaining you to payments for years and years. I can easily just go to another mechanic. There are tons of people (myself included) who don’t know how to change their oil or fix their lawn mower. That isn’t what got me into financial trouble. What got me into trouble as a young person was not understanding minimum payments and where to put money to start saving for retirement. I had no idea what long term insurance was, or how life insurance worked, or what to do with a 401k, or how much my student loans would cost, and how those payments hanging over my head would force me to make decisions about the type of work I could accept in the beginning of my career.

I read many financial books on my own as a young adult. Making it ANOTHER requirement makes it sound like we are moving more to a nanny state. I mean what they need to know can be covered in a few hours. We don’t need a FULL semester class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a horrible idea. I don’t think a kid who will be out of the system in a year soon is in the best position to make the case. She did it for the college essay. If we allow every SMOB to mandate a “necessary” class- please help us.

My husband would love every kid to learn how to change a tire, fix a law mower etc. my MIL thinks home Econ should be mandatory. Where does it end? Some things kids can learn outside of school.

That is really insulting to Ms O’Looney. She did a better job this year of asking questions of administrators and communicating with the public than most, if not all, the adult board members. Financial literacy is a real thing that can have way more of an impact on one’s life, and one’s children’s lives, than any other subject taught at school. There’s a TON of companies that prey on people who don’t know anything about finances, and it leads to debt that people can almost never get out from under. Kids can get trapped on Day 1 of becoming an adult if they go out and sign up for credit cards, loans… go to payday lenders… and not understand what they’re getting into.

There are also a lot of people who prey on those who don’t know how to fix cars, understand their heating system, work on their mowers etc. Financial literacy is important and I think they can fit a lot of that into middle school/HS health requirements etc. The whole idea of a SMOB with full voting rights irks me to no end. All of them are more concerned about their college application then what happens at MCPS long term which is why it’s dumb they get a vote.

But not knowing how to do those things won’t result in you having to declare bankruptcy. Sure, there are dishonest repair people, but one or two ripoffs doesn’t end up chaining you to payments for years and years. I can easily just go to another mechanic. There are tons of people (myself included) who don’t know how to change their oil or fix their lawn mower. That isn’t what got me into financial trouble. What got me into trouble as a young person was not understanding minimum payments and where to put money to start saving for retirement. I had no idea what long term insurance was, or how life insurance worked, or what to do with a 401k, or how much my student loans would cost, and how those payments hanging over my head would force me to make decisions about the type of work I could accept in the beginning of my career.

I don’t think a financial literacy course would have helped. Seriously if you didn’t understand debt that’s unfathomable to me. I think most people fall in your shoes just ignore the consequences of their actions and no amount of financial literacy would help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Central Office administrators didn’t recommend that it become a graduation requirement, and the board of education did what it does best— do whatever the Central Office tells them to do.
Vote them out.

Yes - vote Apple ballot!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a horrible idea. I don’t think a kid who will be out of the system in a year soon is in the best position to make the case. She did it for the college essay. If we allow every SMOB to mandate a “necessary” class- please help us.

My husband would love every kid to learn how to change a tire, fix a law mower etc. my MIL thinks home Econ should be mandatory. Where does it end? Some things kids can learn outside of school.

That is really insulting to Ms O’Looney. She did a better job this year of asking questions of administrators and communicating with the public than most, if not all, the adult board members. Financial literacy is a real thing that can have way more of an impact on one’s life, and one’s children’s lives, than any other subject taught at school. There’s a TON of companies that prey on people who don’t know anything about finances, and it leads to debt that people can almost never get out from under. Kids can get trapped on Day 1 of becoming an adult if they go out and sign up for credit cards, loans… go to payday lenders… and not understand what they’re getting into.

There are also a lot of people who prey on those who don’t know how to fix cars, understand their heating system, work on their mowers etc. Financial literacy is important and I think they can fit a lot of that into middle school/HS health requirements etc. The whole idea of a SMOB with full voting rights irks me to no end. All of them are more concerned about their college application then what happens at MCPS long term which is why it’s dumb they get a vote.

But not knowing how to do those things won’t result in you having to declare bankruptcy. Sure, there are dishonest repair people, but one or two ripoffs doesn’t end up chaining you to payments for years and years. I can easily just go to another mechanic. There are tons of people (myself included) who don’t know how to change their oil or fix their lawn mower. That isn’t what got me into financial trouble. What got me into trouble as a young person was not understanding minimum payments and where to put money to start saving for retirement. I had no idea what long term insurance was, or how life insurance worked, or what to do with a 401k, or how much my student loans would cost, and how those payments hanging over my head would force me to make decisions about the type of work I could accept in the beginning of my career.

I read many financial books on my own as a young adult. Making it ANOTHER requirement makes it sound like we are moving more to a nanny state. I mean what they need to know can be covered in a few hours. We don’t need a FULL semester class.

Most parents on this board are demanding a nanny state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If MCPS was kicking the can down the road, my interpretation of the reason was because the Maryland Blueprint for Excellence may have unintended consequences, and MCPS was reluctant to add an extra graduation requirement that may make it harder for some students to graduate. It is good content, but requiring a semester class is a narrow approach that may not work.

yes- this is what convinced them.

Again, misses the point -- MCPS didn't bother to prepare any alternatives to an in-class requirement, which they knew would be voted down, in line with their recommendation. They effectively abandoned a good idea -- ensuring that graduates have an understanding of personal finance -- with the straw man of that having to be accomplished only with a class. O'Looney and one or two others were left to try to construct a solution on the spot, themselves, offering amendments to try to incorporate ideas like SSL hours or the like. Of course, the other BOE members could then vote against these, saying that they hadn't been evaluated by MCPS staff, which the MCPS professionals/higher-ups know should have been part of their preparation/presentation in the first place.

Absolutely shameful.

Actually there were several alternatives included in the document presented at the meeting, including: a personal finance elective, an online financial literacy course, quantitative literacy, and financial literacy modules:

https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/CF3T5R75BAC9/$file/Financial%20Literacy%20Recommendation%20220607.pdf

I hope you and others bother to read the memo. The only deep dive was into a credit-bearing requirement and the resulting negative impact on electives; the survey table shows opinion only about this option. Implementations elsewhere were viewed with a jaundiced eye, at best, and they cast the issue as one made difficult by diversity instead of one for which diversity created a great need.

They paid lip service to the need, and they spent a few sentences on non-ctedit options, including SSL, but did not provide any deep analysis to support these in lieu of a class to the level that would be difficult to dismiss by other BOE members. Instead, they recommended a no-requirement recognition at graduation. The very population that would benefit most from having learned robust financial literacy is the population that is least likely to opt for non-requirement recognition.

Again -- they didn't properly prepare alternatives for consideration.

This! They did present several alternatives, all of which can still be used for credit bearing reasons. What they didn’t provide was meaningful reason why these were better alternatives or how they would be implemented. Trying to Maryland Blueprint and the end of course requirements was ridiculous. As was trying to point to the number of students in danger of not graduating. Neither of these are a true equity concern, and I saw that as a POC truly concerned about equity. The only true equity concerned raised was about ensuring access for ESOL students. The other reasonable concerns was training teachers and ensuring enough availability of courses/teachers for other courses, and the magnet program schedule. All of the other things are excuses or lack of will.

[Anonymous]

Students wants it, Parents wants Financial Literacy as a graduate requirements. Student rep on the board member also made a case for financial literacy at the meeting comparing to Frederick County Schools where it is a graduation requirements. But Someone at the meeting said due to demographic differences, they compare MCPS to PG county schools not Frederick county schools. It looks like they are driving MCPS on same disastrous path of PG county schools.

So, now demographics determine what kids learn at MCPS schools? Interesting.

Those who did not watch the meeting, spend your 15 minutes to watch that segment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a horrible idea. I don’t think a kid who will be out of the system in a year soon is in the best position to make the case. She did it for the college essay. If we allow every SMOB to mandate a “necessary” class- please help us.

My husband would love every kid to learn how to change a tire, fix a law mower etc. my MIL thinks home Econ should be mandatory. Where does it end? Some things kids can learn outside of school.

That is really insulting to Ms O’Looney. She did a better job this year of asking questions of administrators and communicating with the public than most, if not all, the adult board members. Financial literacy is a real thing that can have way more of an impact on one’s life, and one’s children’s lives, than any other subject taught at school. There’s a TON of companies that prey on people who don’t know anything about finances, and it leads to debt that people can almost never get out from under. Kids can get trapped on Day 1 of becoming an adult if they go out and sign up for credit cards, loans… go to payday lenders… and not understand what they’re getting into.

There are also a lot of people who prey on those who don’t know how to fix cars, understand their heating system, work on their mowers etc. Financial literacy is important and I think they can fit a lot of that into middle school/HS health requirements etc. The whole idea of a SMOB with full voting rights irks me to no end. All of them are more concerned about their college application then what happens at MCPS long term which is why it’s dumb they get a vote.

But not knowing how to do those things won’t result in you having to declare bankruptcy. Sure, there are dishonest repair people, but one or two ripoffs doesn’t end up chaining you to payments for years and years. I can easily just go to another mechanic. There are tons of people (myself included) who don’t know how to change their oil or fix their lawn mower. That isn’t what got me into financial trouble. What got me into trouble as a young person was not understanding minimum payments and where to put money to start saving for retirement. I had no idea what long term insurance was, or how life insurance worked, or what to do with a 401k, or how much my student loans would cost, and how those payments hanging over my head would force me to make decisions about the type of work I could accept in the beginning of my career.

I read many financial books on my own as a young adult. Making it ANOTHER requirement makes it sound like we are moving more to a nanny state. I mean what they need to know can be covered in a few hours. We don’t need a FULL semester class.

Most parents on this board are demanding a nanny state.

Isn't it already a nanny state? At the meeting they spent more time talking about using school busses to take kids to recreation centers and back during entire summer so that they have equal opportunity to have fun. They provide after school care, Breakfast, lunch and dinner is provided. One thing that is missing is focus on academic work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Students wants it, Parents wants Financial Literacy as a graduate requirements. Student rep on the board member also made a case for financial literacy at the meeting comparing to Frederick County Schools where it is a graduation requirements. But Someone at the meeting said due to demographic differences, they compare MCPS to PG county schools not Frederick county schools. It looks like they are driving MCPS on same disastrous path of PG county schools.

So, now demographics determine what kids learn at MCPS schools? Interesting.

Those who did not watch the meeting, spend your 15 minutes to watch that segment.

Parents want the kids to learn financial literacy but not an extra class required for graduation. In one of your prior posts, you mentioned the ones who need it the most are least likely to take it. Make it count as a math credit option so those who want to take it can. Seriously, don’t take away the limited electives the kids already have. Some want to take Chorus/ Drama for 4 years, some want to take shop, some want to take DP APs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Students wants it, Parents wants Financial Literacy as a graduate requirements. Student rep on the board member also made a case for financial literacy at the meeting comparing to Frederick County Schools where it is a graduation requirements. But Someone at the meeting said due to demographic differences, they compare MCPS to PG county schools not Frederick county schools. It looks like they are driving MCPS on same disastrous path of PG county schools.

So, now demographics determine what kids learn at MCPS schools? Interesting.

Those who did not watch the meeting, spend your 15 minutes to watch that segment.

Parents want the kids to learn financial literacy but not an extra class required for graduation. In one of your prior posts, you mentioned the ones who need it the most are least likely to take it. Make it count as a math credit option so those who want to take it can. Seriously, don’t take away the limited electives the kids already have. Some want to take Chorus/ Drama for 4 years, some want to take shop, some want to take DP APs.

That was a different poster (of course, who can tell on am anonymous board?); I'm the one who mentioned the population most in need is that least likely to pay attention to anything not required.

The point was that there was an opportunity to ensure financial literacy via a requirement, but one that could be met a variety of ways -- a class (Quantitative Literacy already exists and counts towards the 4-year Math requirement), a teat-out or well-defined extracurricular activites (some of which could also provide SSL hours towards graduation). This way, there would be no need to miss a desired elective (e.g., Drama), which was the overwhelming objection.

Even seeing that, though, either they didn't put the pieces together to figure it out (as O'Looney nearly was able to do on the fly during the meeting) or they failed to present that with any robustness that would allow the BOE to adopt it. Not sure what those on the BOE who more clearly didn't support the idea were worried about (who knows...adding a requirement close to election time?), but they clearly clung to the PG example (have to see how it goes there, first; we're less like Frederick) and the worry about electives, and that was the clear tenor of the presentation, even more so than the MCPS recommendation memo, itself.

[Anonymous]

The worry about electives is a pretty big one. Certain electives are needed for graduation. Also, there is no clear curriculum or staffing. Every high school runs these courses a bit differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To be fair, everyone on the board was interested in increasing access to the classes, and renaming them so the content is more clear. And they said they will reevaluate about requiring it as a graduation credit in a year.

I feel like this is actually an important change. The class they have already been offering for years is called Quantitative Literacy, and I'm sure most people seeing that in the course listings don't realize that it covers things like investments, credit, budgeting, etc.

No wonder it’s been overlooked. They should rename classes so that the titles are clear without trying to sound pretentious. Clear and “basic” course titles would be helpful for when kids and parents are looking over electives and trying to build courses.