Junior year grades

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

DCUM wisdom on minimum acceptable grades in rigorous classes?

Depends a bit on where the classes are being taken..Top private schools can have pretty harsh grading standards with at most 1 student with a 4.0 UW GPA per year. Most of even the very top students (outside of perhaps the top 3-4 students in the class) will have several A- and a few B+ type grades (esp in the rigorous courses).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Btw, a D, even in a rigorous class, is not a good thing for anyone. But I agree that retaking course senior year shows perseverance. Student (and counselor) need to come up with a viable explanation for why it happened. It wont stop you from getting into most schools, but it will for the T20-30/elite schools, unless there is a really good reason (family death, major illness, etc).

DCUM wisom on minimum acceptable grades in rigorous classes?

Not sure the question?

No one can really tell "how bad of a grade is too bad". However, most T20-T30/elite schools have admission rates of 5-10%. So they do not need to accept someone who gets a D or C in a rigorous course. There are plenty of students who never get below a B even in rigorous courses to select from; heck there are plenty who never get below an A/A-. And there are plenty of students who manage this while taking 4-7 AP/IB courses in a single year. Unless your student can truly "own the grade" and has a truly valid reason for why it happened (ie. Parent was ill/student was ill/ major family issues etc that were the direct cause), the grade WILL impact them in college admissions. That's just where we are in life. However, I'd argue that it's been that way for a long time. Even 30 years ago, a C/D on your transcript would impact you at elite colleges.
However, there are still plenty of GREAT schools your student will get into. It's not the end of the world as DCUM would make it out to be.

I'd argue that if your kid cannot get at least a B-/B in a "rigorous course in HS", that perhaps they are not cut out for a T20 school and that is OK. Because for example, IB calculus or AP Calculus BC are just the beginning of "rigorous courses", and Calc 3/4/Diff EQ and beyond are much harder courses and you can still get a sucky professor at a Top University (had plenty myself along with really good ones too).

Cool observation. Plenty of awful profs teaching tough subjects at major universities.

Yup! I think "teaching" is typically better at SLAC (even non-elite), or any school with much smaller class sizes or simply at a school where teaching is the focus versus research. At most T20 and really T50, research is the bigger focus for most professors. I went to a T10 and the Math and physics dept was notoriously terrible for low level courses. The best Profs were the "lecturers", not the actual professors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Btw, a D, even in a rigorous class, is not a good thing for anyone. But I agree that retaking course senior year shows perseverance. Student (and counselor) need to come up with a viable explanation for why it happened. It wont stop you from getting into most schools, but it will for the T20-30/elite schools, unless there is a really good reason (family death, major illness, etc).

DCUM wisom on minimum acceptable grades in rigorous classes?

Not sure the question?

No one can really tell "how bad of a grade is too bad". However, most T20-T30/elite schools have admission rates of 5-10%. So they do not need to accept someone who gets a D or C in a rigorous course. There are plenty of students who never get below a B even in rigorous courses to select from; heck there are plenty who never get below an A/A-. And there are plenty of students who manage this while taking 4-7 AP/IB courses in a single year. Unless your student can truly "own the grade" and has a truly valid reason for why it happened (ie. Parent was ill/student was ill/ major family issues etc that were the direct cause), the grade WILL impact them in college admissions. That's just where we are in life. However, I'd argue that it's been that way for a long time. Even 30 years ago, a C/D on your transcript would impact you at elite colleges.
However, there are still plenty of GREAT schools your student will get into. It's not the end of the world as DCUM would make it out to be.

I'd argue that if your kid cannot get at least a B-/B in a "rigorous course in HS", that perhaps they are not cut out for a T20 school and that is OK. Because for example, IB calculus or AP Calculus BC are just the beginning of "rigorous courses", and Calc 3/4/Diff EQ and beyond are much harder courses and you can still get a sucky professor at a Top University (had plenty myself along with really good ones too).

I should have been clearer in my question: I meant to ask what DCUM's wisdom was on the question of minimum acceptable grades in rigorous courses for a student to still be competitive at T10/T20 colleges. But this is a very informative response. Thanks! Rising Sophomore DC is not heading in a STEM direction for college and is unsure as to whether to take on the "most rigorous courses" throughout in HS in Math/Science for admissions purposes (standard problem for many parents, I guess).

For T10-20 from public school all As (maybe an A- or two).

[Anonymous]

How did he do on the IB test for the subject? If he got a 6 or 7, it will be clear that there was something screwy with the grades. If he got a 2. 3, will be clear he didn’t learn the material.
I do hate how much arbitrariness there is—especially for kids at public schools. My kid had a teacher last year that didn’t cover half the material on the test—which she readily acknowledged and said she just didn’t have time. My kid squeaked out a B with the help of a tutor, but many others had Cs and Ds, and they are all top students who were really working hard. It killed my kid’s love of the subject. She had friends this year in an AP class with a totally unqualified teacher who didn’t teach any of the material—the kids set up a study group and tried to teach themselves off Khan. Luckily neither of those teachers are teaching those classes going forward — but it stinks for the kids who were the ones that had to prove that the teachers were not teaching. The hiring situation for schools now is pretty bad so they are just throwing whoever into whatever spots in some cases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why you’d want to try and explain this on the application. Unless someone died or they had an illness. The rest of the world gets bad grades occasionally and doesn’t make up excuses. You base college applications on where you fit in, which is not a top school.

Clicked on this thread because DD had a similar bad grade issue just happen her junior year (looks like the final grade will be a C-, but that's still pretty low). Other grades should be B or higher, but most of those grades should have been A's. The issue for her was a medical issue that happened right at the end of first semester that caused serious emotional distress and tanked her grades (and also was and will be a recurring issue, although the current treatment seems to be working). Just wondering how she's supposed to explain this in her apps - she's not aiming for Ivys or anything, but really hoping to get into state flagship (and 9th and 10th grade GPA was almost 4.0 unweighted). Will high test scores compensate? They're currently only ok, but she'll retake in the fall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Btw, a D, even in a rigorous class, is not a good thing for anyone. But I agree that retaking course senior year shows perseverance. Student (and counselor) need to come up with a viable explanation for why it happened. It wont stop you from getting into most schools, but it will for the T20-30/elite schools, unless there is a really good reason (family death, major illness, etc).

DCUM wisom on minimum acceptable grades in rigorous classes?

Not sure the question?

No one can really tell "how bad of a grade is too bad". However, most T20-T30/elite schools have admission rates of 5-10%. So they do not need to accept someone who gets a D or C in a rigorous course. There are plenty of students who never get below a B even in rigorous courses to select from; heck there are plenty who never get below an A/A-. And there are plenty of students who manage this while taking 4-7 AP/IB courses in a single year. Unless your student can truly "own the grade" and has a truly valid reason for why it happened (ie. Parent was ill/student was ill/ major family issues etc that were the direct cause), the grade WILL impact them in college admissions. That's just where we are in life. However, I'd argue that it's been that way for a long time. Even 30 years ago, a C/D on your transcript would impact you at elite colleges.
However, there are still plenty of GREAT schools your student will get into. It's not the end of the world as DCUM would make it out to be.

I'd argue that if your kid cannot get at least a B-/B in a "rigorous course in HS", that perhaps they are not cut out for a T20 school and that is OK. Because for example, IB calculus or AP Calculus BC are just the beginning of "rigorous courses", and Calc 3/4/Diff EQ and beyond are much harder courses and you can still get a sucky professor at a Top University (had plenty myself along with really good ones too).

I should have been clearer in my question: I meant to ask what DCUM's wisdom was on the question of minimum acceptable grades in rigorous courses for a student to still be competitive at T10/T20 colleges. But this is a very informative response. Thanks! Rising Sophomore DC is not heading in a STEM direction for college and is unsure as to whether to take on the "most rigorous courses" throughout in HS in Math/Science for admissions purposes (standard problem for many parents, I guess).

For T10-20 from public school all As (maybe an A- or two).

Mine got all As and a couple Bs. Had very rigorous curriculum in magnet though. Got into 3 Ivies/T10.

[Anonymous]

My kid too. Lots of kids. It's not the end of the world.

I don't think it's worth explaining in the application -- it happens to lots of kids and they all have similar stories, right? Illness, depression, lack of understanding or self-advocacy, letting things spiral out of control, time conflicts... None of those stories are inherently that interesting. There's no magic path that makes it go away, but fortunately they will still have other good options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Btw, a D, even in a rigorous class, is not a good thing for anyone. But I agree that retaking course senior year shows perseverance. Student (and counselor) need to come up with a viable explanation for why it happened. It wont stop you from getting into most schools, but it will for the T20-30/elite schools, unless there is a really good reason (family death, major illness, etc).

DCUM wisom on minimum acceptable grades in rigorous classes?

Not sure the question?

No one can really tell "how bad of a grade is too bad". However, most T20-T30/elite schools have admission rates of 5-10%. So they do not need to accept someone who gets a D or C in a rigorous course. There are plenty of students who never get below a B even in rigorous courses to select from; heck there are plenty who never get below an A/A-. And there are plenty of students who manage this while taking 4-7 AP/IB courses in a single year. Unless your student can truly "own the grade" and has a truly valid reason for why it happened (ie. Parent was ill/student was ill/ major family issues etc that were the direct cause), the grade WILL impact them in college admissions. That's just where we are in life. However, I'd argue that it's been that way for a long time. Even 30 years ago, a C/D on your transcript would impact you at elite colleges.
However, there are still plenty of GREAT schools your student will get into. It's not the end of the world as DCUM would make it out to be.

I'd argue that if your kid cannot get at least a B-/B in a "rigorous course in HS", that perhaps they are not cut out for a T20 school and that is OK. Because for example, IB calculus or AP Calculus BC are just the beginning of "rigorous courses", and Calc 3/4/Diff EQ and beyond are much harder courses and you can still get a sucky professor at a Top University (had plenty myself along with really good ones too).

I should have been clearer in my question: I meant to ask what DCUM's wisdom was on the question of minimum acceptable grades in rigorous courses for a student to still be competitive at T10/T20 colleges. But this is a very informative response. Thanks! Rising Sophomore DC is not heading in a STEM direction for college and is unsure as to whether to take on the "most rigorous courses" throughout in HS in Math/Science for admissions purposes (standard problem for many parents, I guess).

For T10-20 from public school all As (maybe an A- or two).

Mine got all As and a couple Bs. Had very rigorous curriculum in magnet though. Got into 3 Ivies/T10.

Would you share which magnet? Mine got a B last year and people keep acting like it’s not even worth applying to ivys with that. I really don’t know how much to adjust for the magnet factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Btw, a D, even in a rigorous class, is not a good thing for anyone. But I agree that retaking course senior year shows perseverance. Student (and counselor) need to come up with a viable explanation for why it happened. It wont stop you from getting into most schools, but it will for the T20-30/elite schools, unless there is a really good reason (family death, major illness, etc).

DCUM wisom on minimum acceptable grades in rigorous classes?

Not sure the question?

No one can really tell "how bad of a grade is too bad". However, most T20-T30/elite schools have admission rates of 5-10%. So they do not need to accept someone who gets a D or C in a rigorous course. There are plenty of students who never get below a B even in rigorous courses to select from; heck there are plenty who never get below an A/A-. And there are plenty of students who manage this while taking 4-7 AP/IB courses in a single year. Unless your student can truly "own the grade" and has a truly valid reason for why it happened (ie. Parent was ill/student was ill/ major family issues etc that were the direct cause), the grade WILL impact them in college admissions. That's just where we are in life. However, I'd argue that it's been that way for a long time. Even 30 years ago, a C/D on your transcript would impact you at elite colleges.
However, there are still plenty of GREAT schools your student will get into. It's not the end of the world as DCUM would make it out to be.

I'd argue that if your kid cannot get at least a B-/B in a "rigorous course in HS", that perhaps they are not cut out for a T20 school and that is OK. Because for example, IB calculus or AP Calculus BC are just the beginning of "rigorous courses", and Calc 3/4/Diff EQ and beyond are much harder courses and you can still get a sucky professor at a Top University (had plenty myself along with really good ones too).

I should have been clearer in my question: I meant to ask what DCUM's wisdom was on the question of minimum acceptable grades in rigorous courses for a student to still be competitive at T10/T20 colleges. But this is a very informative response. Thanks! Rising Sophomore DC is not heading in a STEM direction for college and is unsure as to whether to take on the "most rigorous courses" throughout in HS in Math/Science for admissions purposes (standard problem for many parents, I guess).

For T10-20 from public school all As (maybe an A- or two).

Mine got all As and a couple Bs. Had very rigorous curriculum in magnet though. Got into 3 Ivies/T10.

I’m guessing your DC also had a very high SAT/ACT score?

[Anonymous]

My son's junior year grades at the lowest out of any year. He had physics and math which are not his strengths. Oh well. He had to take them so he did the best he could. Next year, his science course will not involve any math so hopefully, his grades will improve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Btw, a D, even in a rigorous class, is not a good thing for anyone. But I agree that retaking course senior year shows perseverance. Student (and counselor) need to come up with a viable explanation for why it happened. It wont stop you from getting into most schools, but it will for the T20-30/elite schools, unless there is a really good reason (family death, major illness, etc).

DCUM wisom on minimum acceptable grades in rigorous classes?

Not sure the question?

No one can really tell "how bad of a grade is too bad". However, most T20-T30/elite schools have admission rates of 5-10%. So they do not need to accept someone who gets a D or C in a rigorous course. There are plenty of students who never get below a B even in rigorous courses to select from; heck there are plenty who never get below an A/A-. And there are plenty of students who manage this while taking 4-7 AP/IB courses in a single year. Unless your student can truly "own the grade" and has a truly valid reason for why it happened (ie. Parent was ill/student was ill/ major family issues etc that were the direct cause), the grade WILL impact them in college admissions. That's just where we are in life. However, I'd argue that it's been that way for a long time. Even 30 years ago, a C/D on your transcript would impact you at elite colleges.
However, there are still plenty of GREAT schools your student will get into. It's not the end of the world as DCUM would make it out to be.

I'd argue that if your kid cannot get at least a B-/B in a "rigorous course in HS", that perhaps they are not cut out for a T20 school and that is OK. Because for example, IB calculus or AP Calculus BC are just the beginning of "rigorous courses", and Calc 3/4/Diff EQ and beyond are much harder courses and you can still get a sucky professor at a Top University (had plenty myself along with really good ones too).

I should have been clearer in my question: I meant to ask what DCUM's wisdom was on the question of minimum acceptable grades in rigorous courses for a student to still be competitive at T10/T20 colleges. But this is a very informative response. Thanks! Rising Sophomore DC is not heading in a STEM direction for college and is unsure as to whether to take on the "most rigorous courses" throughout in HS in Math/Science for admissions purposes (standard problem for many parents, I guess).

For T10-20 from public school all As (maybe an A- or two).

Mine got all As and a couple Bs. Had very rigorous curriculum in magnet though. Got into 3 Ivies/T10.

Would you share which magnet? Mine got a B last year and people keep acting like it’s not even worth applying to ivys with that. I really don’t know how much to adjust for the magnet factor.

Blair. But, we did know other kids w/ straight As who didn't get into any. DD had excellent ECs and nat'l awards. Probably should have mentioned that, but I just wanted to say that a couple Bs aren't necessarily a dealbreaker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Btw, a D, even in a rigorous class, is not a good thing for anyone. But I agree that retaking course senior year shows perseverance. Student (and counselor) need to come up with a viable explanation for why it happened. It wont stop you from getting into most schools, but it will for the T20-30/elite schools, unless there is a really good reason (family death, major illness, etc).

DCUM wisom on minimum acceptable grades in rigorous classes?

Not sure the question?

No one can really tell "how bad of a grade is too bad". However, most T20-T30/elite schools have admission rates of 5-10%. So they do not need to accept someone who gets a D or C in a rigorous course. There are plenty of students who never get below a B even in rigorous courses to select from; heck there are plenty who never get below an A/A-. And there are plenty of students who manage this while taking 4-7 AP/IB courses in a single year. Unless your student can truly "own the grade" and has a truly valid reason for why it happened (ie. Parent was ill/student was ill/ major family issues etc that were the direct cause), the grade WILL impact them in college admissions. That's just where we are in life. However, I'd argue that it's been that way for a long time. Even 30 years ago, a C/D on your transcript would impact you at elite colleges.
However, there are still plenty of GREAT schools your student will get into. It's not the end of the world as DCUM would make it out to be.

I'd argue that if your kid cannot get at least a B-/B in a "rigorous course in HS", that perhaps they are not cut out for a T20 school and that is OK. Because for example, IB calculus or AP Calculus BC are just the beginning of "rigorous courses", and Calc 3/4/Diff EQ and beyond are much harder courses and you can still get a sucky professor at a Top University (had plenty myself along with really good ones too).

I should have been clearer in my question: I meant to ask what DCUM's wisdom was on the question of minimum acceptable grades in rigorous courses for a student to still be competitive at T10/T20 colleges. But this is a very informative response. Thanks! Rising Sophomore DC is not heading in a STEM direction for college and is unsure as to whether to take on the "most rigorous courses" throughout in HS in Math/Science for admissions purposes (standard problem for many parents, I guess).

For T10-20 from public school all As (maybe an A- or two).

Mine got all As and a couple Bs. Had very rigorous curriculum in magnet though. Got into 3 Ivies/T10.

I’m guessing your DC also had a very high SAT/ACT score?

Yeah.

[Anonymous]

OP, wish you the best. Interesting how a single grade can be viewed as a killer. DS also just completed in jr year in FCPS. Likely physics/CS major. His transcript will show an A- in 7th grade Algebra (HS credit) and 4th year Spanish. 9 APs, post-AP CS, 3 DE courses with AP/honors in all core with the exception of AP Lang. 1520 SAT. If you go on any of the UVA threads, they tell us not to even bother applying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How did he do on the IB test for the subject? If he got a 6 or 7, it will be clear that there was something screwy with the grades. If he got a 2. 3, will be clear he didn’t learn the material.
I do hate how much arbitrariness there is—especially for kids at public schools. My kid had a teacher last year that didn’t cover half the material on the test—which she readily acknowledged and said she just didn’t have time. My kid squeaked out a B with the help of a tutor, but many others had Cs and Ds, and they are all top students who were really working hard. It killed my kid’s love of the subject. She had friends this year in an AP class with a totally unqualified teacher who didn’t teach any of the material—the kids set up a study group and tried to teach themselves off Khan. Luckily neither of those teachers are teaching those classes going forward — but it stinks for the kids who were the ones that had to prove that the teachers were not teaching. The hiring situation for schools now is pretty bad so they are just throwing whoever into whatever spots in some cases.

My DC got a B- and a B in Calc BC and the B- was really a C+ that the teacher rounded for my DC because they were so close and work so hard both this year and last year--teacher wrote stellar recommendation for my kid, so knew where they were applying and that a C of any type would really hurt them (of course so did the B- with a 3.96 UW GPA before senior year) Teacher just grades hard. However, for the last 10+ years, teacher has a 99.999% of students earning 4 or 5s on the AP test (like only 2 or 3 have ever not earned that). My own DC says they most like got a 5 on the test, based on how they have done with all the practice AP tests in class throughout the year and for the final month. Yet, my kid will most likely get credit for the course. My kid knows the material, the teacher is just challenging as she pushes them to get a 5 on the actual AP test. So the prep work and teaching is amazing, but the grade doesn't reflect the actual knowledge IMO. Oh, well it is what it is at this point. What matters is that my kid learned the material and feels confident going into Calc 3 freshman year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, wish you the best. Interesting how a single grade can be viewed as a killer. DS also just completed in jr year in FCPS. Likely physics/CS major. His transcript will show an A- in 7th grade Algebra (HS credit) and 4th year Spanish. 9 APs, post-AP CS, 3 DE courses with AP/honors in all core with the exception of AP Lang. 1520 SAT. If you go on any of the UVA threads, they tell us not to even bother applying.

Well, a D can certainly be a killer if you are striving for T20 schools. Even for a T100 school, a D on your first semester Senior year transcript will get you a "warning" from a school ranked 80-85, stating that if you don't bring the grade up your admission acceptance could be in jeopardy (ask me how I know that), even if that D is in the student's first ever AP course. So at a school with less than 10% acceptance rates, yes a D is an indicator that the student potentially cannot handle the rigor. Doesn't mean the student will not go on to do great things elsewhere. But when they have 50K students to pick from for 1400 spots, yes, a D (and sometimes even a C) can be a killer for admissions.