Accepting an aged parent’s “ghetto” mentality

[Anonymous]

Sometimes, I think people who've had to work exceedingly hard their whole lives and have had to keep pushing through for years and years lose inertia when they finally stop. And, that's ok.

Leave your mother alone; she doesn't owe anyone an explanation about how she spends her time. Just be glad she lived long enough to retire in relatively good health.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hope my title isn’t hurtful but it’s the only clean descriptor I can think of.

My mother is a long-retired woman who grew up as so many of our parents did, in exceptional poverty. She was the eldest girl of a dozen siblings, and was born with a critical life-long illness that kept her indoors and she became not only the most responsible but best student by a mile in her family. She excelled in college, and was all but dissertation in grad school before starting her career. She is a good mother and grandmother, exceedingly intelligent and kind.

But: retirement has been a disaster on some level. She’s depressed and won’t seek treatment. She never had time for hobbies because she spent her entire adulthood not only working and parenting but literally serving as the bank to everyone in our large, messed up extended family, literally bailing out multiple siblings, financing weddings. Many of my aunts and uncles have had a lot of interactions with the carceral system, and this has trickled down to many of my first cousins. Everyone’s hand was and is out. Everything was and is her fault (eg, my aunt was an addict who overdosed and died long ago. When I was a child this aunt tried to get my mom to legally adopt her kids and was infuriated when my father refused. My parents were seen as rich when they were caring for immediate and extended family on civil servant salaries. The adoption thing came up at our most recent extended family holiday, which is clearly insane.) She never developed hobbies, never took up reading or something engaging. Her siblings have always really loved casinos so that’s what they do, go to the waterfront or to Delaware or AC. They have fun from what I can tell. She doesn’t gamble in a way where she loses much, she is frugal.

So what’s the problem? She is depressed and fills her days with tv and medical appointments and these crazy casino trips as her only pleasure. My father, brother and I have tried to suggest other things to take up (my dad isn’t retired and doesn’t want to yet) and she gets upset. She regards volunteering and museum work or seeing anything even in a museum as sort of snobby, white-identified stuff (my dad is white, Mom is a WOC). This element of what seems to motivate her is more pronounced the older we all get. I know some will say “enmeshed much” but we all love her, we want her to get treatment, take a walk in fresh air, anything other than MSNBC or doctors appointments all day with the occasional gamblers sojourn.

The mentality that more typically engaging retirement pursuits like reading, gardening, classes, seeing exhibitions, all the kinds of things similarly situated people seem to do in the area, are “fancy” or for “other people” are the kinds of sentiments my aunts and uncles routinely said and say and it seems Mom fundamentally feels this way too. Can anyone relate? If you have wholly externally accepted this, how did you get there? If you can, please be kind.

So, your mother likes watching TV and playing cards, whereas you think normal people all want to do gardening or museums? You are way off base. Most people do NOT enjoy gardening or museums. Look, I get it, my mom is like your mom. And my mom is way happier than me and my garden. She found a card playing gal crew in Delaware. They really enjoy each other's company. it's not a matter of being "ghetto." Just different interests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope my title isn’t hurtful but it’s the only clean descriptor I can think of.

My mother is a long-retired woman who grew up as so many of our parents did, in exceptional poverty. She was the eldest girl of a dozen siblings, and was born with a critical life-long illness that kept her indoors and she became not only the most responsible but best student by a mile in her family. She excelled in college, and was all but dissertation in grad school before starting her career. She is a good mother and grandmother, exceedingly intelligent and kind.

But: retirement has been a disaster on some level. She’s depressed and won’t seek treatment. She never had time for hobbies because she spent her entire adulthood not only working and parenting but literally serving as the bank to everyone in our large, messed up extended family, literally bailing out multiple siblings, financing weddings. Many of my aunts and uncles have had a lot of interactions with the carceral system, and this has trickled down to many of my first cousins. Everyone’s hand was and is out. Everything was and is her fault (eg, my aunt was an addict who overdosed and died long ago. When I was a child this aunt tried to get my mom to legally adopt her kids and was infuriated when my father refused. My parents were seen as rich when they were caring for immediate and extended family on civil servant salaries. The adoption thing came up at our most recent extended family holiday, which is clearly insane.) She never developed hobbies, never took up reading or something engaging. Her siblings have always really loved casinos so that’s what they do, go to the waterfront or to Delaware or AC. They have fun from what I can tell. She doesn’t gamble in a way where she loses much, she is frugal.

So what’s the problem? She is depressed and fills her days with tv and medical appointments and these crazy casino trips as her only pleasure. My father, brother and I have tried to suggest other things to take up (my dad isn’t retired and doesn’t want to yet) and she gets upset. She regards volunteering and museum work or seeing anything even in a museum as sort of snobby, white-identified stuff (my dad is white, Mom is a WOC). This element of what seems to motivate her is more pronounced the older we all get. I know some will say “enmeshed much” but we all love her, we want her to get treatment, take a walk in fresh air, anything other than MSNBC or doctors appointments all day with the occasional gamblers sojourn.

The mentality that more typically engaging retirement pursuits like reading, gardening, classes, seeing exhibitions, all the kinds of things similarly situated people seem to do in the area, are “fancy” or for “other people” are the kinds of sentiments my aunts and uncles routinely said and say and it seems Mom fundamentally feels this way too. Can anyone relate? If you have wholly externally accepted this, how did you get there? If you can, please be kind.

So, your mother likes watching TV and playing cards, whereas you think normal people all want to do gardening or museums? You are way off base. Most people do NOT enjoy gardening or museums. Look, I get it, my mom is like your mom. And my mom is way happier than me and my garden. She found a card playing gal crew in Delaware. They really enjoy each other's company. it's not a matter of being "ghetto." Just different interests.

You’re misreading by layering your own experience. My mom has no crew. She built a strong social network across her career and while she speaks fondly of people, she exclusively socializes with siblings who are always trying to mooch. It’s a disquieting retreat in many ways. She doesn’t play cards, she plays slots and nothing but. I would LOVE for her to be part of a girl gang of old church ladies playing bingo, or anything like that. Her value judgments have shifted in a strange way; she is scrupulously honest, but was thrilled when my first cousin scammed her way into a settlement that she and her partner lost when they in turn “invested” in something illegal. All she could say to me and my brother was how glad she was that X got all that money, and when it all got shot to hell by said cousins shadiness and idiocy, wanted me and my brother to intervene and fix it which would have required reversing time. The PP I responded to understands this dynamic and I can live with that. I do think the posters above who have discussed trauma responses have given me much to think about. I didn’t write some nonsense about snobbery, sorry.

[Anonymous]

OP, my oldest sat down with his great-grandmother before he left for college last fall. They worked together on what amounted to her autobiography. About 45 mins a day for 2.5 months in her little corner of the world in assisted living. I was surprised at what my son was able to elicit from her. Absolutely fascinating, and in many ways, therapeutic for her. My son ended up having a pretty professional “documentary” on his iPhone. Tons of detailed notes, going through old photos, all of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, my oldest sat down with his great-grandmother before he left for college last fall. They worked together on what amounted to her autobiography. About 45 mins a day for 2.5 months in her little corner of the world in assisted living. I was surprised at what my son was able to elicit from her. Absolutely fascinating, and in many ways, therapeutic for her. My son ended up having a pretty professional “documentary” on his iPhone. Tons of detailed notes, going through old photos, all of it.

This is priceless, in so many ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, my oldest sat down with his great-grandmother before he left for college last fall. They worked together on what amounted to her autobiography. About 45 mins a day for 2.5 months in her little corner of the world in assisted living. I was surprised at what my son was able to elicit from her. Absolutely fascinating, and in many ways, therapeutic for her. My son ended up having a pretty professional “documentary” on his iPhone. Tons of detailed notes, going through old photos, all of it.

This is priceless, in so many ways.

OP - thank you for sharing this, I think this is an amazing idea and will try and make it happen for my mom and DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please ask Jeff to edit your thread title.

I don’t think it’s necessary, but I’m sorry to have offended some.

Peak DCUM. A bunch of white posters want a biracial woman to apologize for using the word ghetto.

+1

Yep! And good for you OP for ignoring. What a bunch of insufferable, virtue-signaling, pearl clutchers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope my title isn’t hurtful but it’s the only clean descriptor I can think of.

My mother is a long-retired woman who grew up as so many of our parents did, in exceptional poverty. She was the eldest girl of a dozen siblings, and was born with a critical life-long illness that kept her indoors and she became not only the most responsible but best student by a mile in her family. She excelled in college, and was all but dissertation in grad school before starting her career. She is a good mother and grandmother, exceedingly intelligent and kind.

But: retirement has been a disaster on some level. She’s depressed and won’t seek treatment. She never had time for hobbies because she spent her entire adulthood not only working and parenting but literally serving as the bank to everyone in our large, messed up extended family, literally bailing out multiple siblings, financing weddings. Many of my aunts and uncles have had a lot of interactions with the carceral system, and this has trickled down to many of my first cousins. Everyone’s hand was and is out. Everything was and is her fault (eg, my aunt was an addict who overdosed and died long ago. When I was a child this aunt tried to get my mom to legally adopt her kids and was infuriated when my father refused. My parents were seen as rich when they were caring for immediate and extended family on civil servant salaries. The adoption thing came up at our most recent extended family holiday, which is clearly insane.) She never developed hobbies, never took up reading or something engaging. Her siblings have always really loved casinos so that’s what they do, go to the waterfront or to Delaware or AC. They have fun from what I can tell. She doesn’t gamble in a way where she loses much, she is frugal.

So what’s the problem? She is depressed and fills her days with tv and medical appointments and these crazy casino trips as her only pleasure. My father, brother and I have tried to suggest other things to take up (my dad isn’t retired and doesn’t want to yet) and she gets upset. She regards volunteering and museum work or seeing anything even in a museum as sort of snobby, white-identified stuff (my dad is white, Mom is a WOC). This element of what seems to motivate her is more pronounced the older we all get. I know some will say “enmeshed much” but we all love her, we want her to get treatment, take a walk in fresh air, anything other than MSNBC or doctors appointments all day with the occasional gamblers sojourn.

The mentality that more typically engaging retirement pursuits like reading, gardening, classes, seeing exhibitions, all the kinds of things similarly situated people seem to do in the area, are “fancy” or for “other people” are the kinds of sentiments my aunts and uncles routinely said and say and it seems Mom fundamentally feels this way too. Can anyone relate? If you have wholly externally accepted this, how did you get there? If you can, please be kind.

So, your mother likes watching TV and playing cards, whereas you think normal people all want to do gardening or museums? You are way off base. Most people do NOT enjoy gardening or museums. Look, I get it, my mom is like your mom. And my mom is way happier than me and my garden. She found a card playing gal crew in Delaware. They really enjoy each other's company. it's not a matter of being "ghetto." Just different interests.

You’re misreading by layering your own experience. My mom has no crew. She built a strong social network across her career and while she speaks fondly of people, she exclusively socializes with siblings who are always trying to mooch. It’s a disquieting retreat in many ways. She doesn’t play cards, she plays slots and nothing but. I would LOVE for her to be part of a girl gang of old church ladies playing bingo, or anything like that. Her value judgments have shifted in a strange way; she is scrupulously honest, but was thrilled when my first cousin scammed her way into a settlement that she and her partner lost when they in turn “invested” in something illegal. All she could say to me and my brother was how glad she was that X got all that money, and when it all got shot to hell by said cousins shadiness and idiocy, wanted me and my brother to intervene and fix it which would have required reversing time. The PP I responded to understands this dynamic and I can live with that. I do think the posters above who have discussed trauma responses have given me much to think about. I didn’t write some nonsense about snobbery, sorry.

Am giving you a real big hug in virtual space. I do not have anything else to offer. You are a smart and talented woman, clearly, and I am so sorry that you are worried about your mom. Family trauma dynamics. Lots of love to you.

[Anonymous]

Would she benefit from joining any POC organizations? To see what other POCs do?

[Anonymous]

Does she have grandkids yet? It sounds like she’s been the caretaker of her relatives and grandkids would be a much healthier outlet. I’m a fully functioning adult but my kids and I are my mom’s retirement dream. She was very lost before I had kids. I’m also very close to her and we have quite a few hobbies we do together.

[Anonymous]

I really relate to this. I grew up very working class, and was first generation to go to college and actually get out. There was tons of dysfunction, alcohol abuse, etc within the extended family, although luckily no substance abuse in my immediate family--lots of poor emotional regulation skills and emotional abuse though. My mother died pretty young from self-neglect, basically.

I am upper middle class and had to code switch the hell out of life in order to get there. As I get older, it gets harder and harder to pull myself out of the patterns ingrained in me since youth. I have much better coping skills, but they are harder to use over time, and harder to use when I am already drained. Stuff like self-neglect, emotional dysregulation when I feel disrespected, etc etc etc. It's hard and takes a TON of energy to use skills when you are already down. And nostalgia for my "people", in all of their problematic glory, grows as I age.

[Anonymous]

My IlLs with grad degrees and successful careers watch trash tv all day long, it’s one trashy soap opera/reality show after another. I am shocked at what they watch and how much and they will literally plan their day around this. This is in Eastern Europe btw, so no an American thing. I think they are just old and tired and want to veg, physically and mentally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really relate to this. I grew up very working class, and was first generation to go to college and actually get out. There was tons of dysfunction, alcohol abuse, etc within the extended family, although luckily no substance abuse in my immediate family--lots of poor emotional regulation skills and emotional abuse though. My mother died pretty young from self-neglect, basically.

I am upper middle class and had to code switch the hell out of life in order to get there. As I get older, it gets harder and harder to pull myself out of the patterns ingrained in me since youth. I have much better coping skills, but they are harder to use over time, and harder to use when I am already drained. Stuff like self-neglect, emotional dysregulation when I feel disrespected, etc etc etc. It's hard and takes a TON of energy to use skills when you are already down. And nostalgia for my "people", in all of their problematic glory, grows as I age.

I am one of the pp's and am experiencing something similar pp. It's exhausting to fight your raising every single day of your life and be on guard not to slip.

She deserves some relaxation after a job well done OP; anything she can do where she feels comfortable.

[Anonymous]

OP, where does she live? I think she would be an incredibly valuable volunteer as a CASA or at a place like Second Story. Neither are snobby and both serve kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really relate to this. I grew up very working class, and was first generation to go to college and actually get out. There was tons of dysfunction, alcohol abuse, etc within the extended family, although luckily no substance abuse in my immediate family--lots of poor emotional regulation skills and emotional abuse though. My mother died pretty young from self-neglect, basically.

I am upper middle class and had to code switch the hell out of life in order to get there. As I get older, it gets harder and harder to pull myself out of the patterns ingrained in me since youth. I have much better coping skills, but they are harder to use over time, and harder to use when I am already drained. Stuff like self-neglect, emotional dysregulation when I feel disrespected, etc etc etc. It's hard and takes a TON of energy to use skills when you are already down. And nostalgia for my "people", in all of their problematic glory, grows as I age.

I am one of the pp's and am experiencing something similar pp. It's exhausting to fight your raising every single day of your life and be on guard not to slip.

She deserves some relaxation after a job well done OP; anything she can do where she feels comfortable.

I think there’s a lot to this. She’s worked hard all her life and maybe now she’s tired of the stress of maintaining the “successful” persona. I also understand increased nostalgia for your family of origin as you age. I’m recently retired from a demanding career and it has taken me a while to get over the need to feel “productive” every day, and I’m not sure I’m completely there yet — but I get it. After working and taking care of others your whole life, being unproductive can feel like such a luxury. Let her be.