Let's talk about the real world and retakes and deadlines

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid got a 7/14 in an art elective in MS on an assignment (not a test). She did the work. Did poorly and now has completely given up on the class. So yes, let's hand out 50s like candy to kids. Especially in classes no one gives a crap about. Retakes allow kids to feel like there is a reason to keep trying.

And no, there is no retake on this stupid assignment and even if there was, I wouldn't have her do it. It's MS and art. Who cares.

Just sharing to show you how easily kids can give up when they see no way to dig out of a hole. Can't really recover from a 50.

I also have a middle school student who is learning a different lesson. He can work very hard at a tedious assignment for a class he doesn’t like and doesn’t agree with the grading and earn maybe a 70, or skip the assignment completely and not do anything and take the 50. He’s choosing what he does and doesn’t turn in. I am not sure I like that lesson either. It’s the 8th grade monthly science research project that’s really not about science at all that some schools are assigning to promote cultural diversity.

That is pretty much how most non honors classes are in high school. Kids just pick and choose when they want to work. Get an A and you can skip the next three assignments. I don't think I have a single assignment where more than 75% of the class turned it in.

The sad part is that this is a middle school honors class. You just described the work ethic of my son and I’m sure there are many like him. He does that in honors classes too. He’s very content with Cs with minimal effort, picking and choosing assignments. I’m hoping he matures by the end of high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid got a 7/14 in an art elective in MS on an assignment (not a test). She did the work. Did poorly and now has completely given up on the class. So yes, let's hand out 50s like candy to kids. Especially in classes no one gives a crap about. Retakes allow kids to feel like there is a reason to keep trying.

And no, there is no retake on this stupid assignment and even if there was, I wouldn't have her do it. It's MS and art. Who cares.

Just sharing to show you how easily kids can give up when they see no way to dig out of a hole. Can't really recover from a 50.

I also have a middle school student who is learning a different lesson. He can work very hard at a tedious assignment for a class he doesn’t like and doesn’t agree with the grading and earn maybe a 70, or skip the assignment completely and not do anything and take the 50. He’s choosing what he does and doesn’t turn in. I am not sure I like that lesson either. It’s the 8th grade monthly science research project that’s really not about science at all that some schools are assigning to promote cultural diversity.

That is pretty much how most non honors classes are in high school. Kids just pick and choose when they want to work. Get an A and you can skip the next three assignments. I don't think I have a single assignment where more than 75% of the class turned it in.

I don't understand this. They can't get an A in a class this way. They may not fail but they won't get an A.

Not OP or that poster. It’s because some kids don’t care about getting As.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the year 2000 a student didn't turn in any work they earned 0. Parents will ground the student and will learn the lesson.

Now the lowest grade we can earned is a 50%...... Parents will write an "excuse on why they couldn't complete the work.....
deadlines?
What deadlines?
Students can submit late work with no deductions! They can go back to previous semesters and submit work without deductions/penalties and the teacher have to accept it and do the paperwork for grade change.


In the real world there will be deadlines. If you miss the deadlines there will be penalty and mommy and daddy will not be able to call the credit card company and tell I can pay when ever I want to..

Let's talk about retakes. You might be able to retake your DMV Test, Praxis EXAM, or other exams but you have to pay for them.
back in the day test were given once and that was it.
When are we going to let students start taking responsible again?

Why do you care? Get a life!

Starts the weirdest threads.

[Anonymous]

I understand the frustration, but I find the issue of how the real world works hard to get behind. They have retakes because the goal is to learn the material, even if later than other kids. A middle school kid does not need to worry about things are done in the corporate world. That kid needs to learn the material and not give up. If they could afford to make the kids who don’t try go to summer school that is meaningful, or make them stay after, or come in on Saturdays to work with a tutor, that would be great. Something has to shift.

If my kid didn’t do an assignment and took a 50, you can be sure that kid would be doing the assignment as soon as I found about it, and I would assign an extra assignment that I would make up, on top of it.

[Anonymous]

I was completely irresponsible in high school. Didn’t care about grades at all. I didn’t study at all. My parents definitely helped me out. I matured throughout college and by the time I graduated, I was able to be successful in a job. If my parents had just let me sink in high school I wouldn’t have gotten to go to college and become successful.

I think 50s and retakes are good so you don’t just tank a kids future. They will grow up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid got a 7/14 in an art elective in MS on an assignment (not a test). She did the work. Did poorly and now has completely given up on the class. So yes, let's hand out 50s like candy to kids. Especially in classes no one gives a crap about. Retakes allow kids to feel like there is a reason to keep trying.

And no, there is no retake on this stupid assignment and even if there was, I wouldn't have her do it. It's MS and art. Who cares.

Just sharing to show you how easily kids can give up when they see no way to dig out of a hole. Can't really recover from a 50.

I also have a middle school student who is learning a different lesson. He can work very hard at a tedious assignment for a class he doesn’t like and doesn’t agree with the grading and earn maybe a 70, or skip the assignment completely and not do anything and take the 50. He’s choosing what he does and doesn’t turn in. I am not sure I like that lesson either. It’s the 8th grade monthly science research project that’s really not about science at all that some schools are assigning to promote cultural diversity.

That is pretty much how most non honors classes are in high school. Kids just pick and choose when they want to work. Get an A and you can skip the next three assignments. I don't think I have a single assignment where more than 75% of the class turned it in.

I don't understand this. They can't get an A in a class this way. They may not fail but they won't get an A.

Not OP or that poster. It’s because some kids don’t care about getting As.

The issue is more behavior when half the class doesn't do the assignment that day because they know they can get a 50 and still pass.

[Anonymous]

So how do these kids get through college? Are retakes a thing now in college too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid got a 7/14 in an art elective in MS on an assignment (not a test). She did the work. Did poorly and now has completely given up on the class. So yes, let's hand out 50s like candy to kids. Especially in classes no one gives a crap about. Retakes allow kids to feel like there is a reason to keep trying.

And no, there is no retake on this stupid assignment and even if there was, I wouldn't have her do it. It's MS and art. Who cares.

Just sharing to show you how easily kids can give up when they see no way to dig out of a hole. Can't really recover from a 50.

Of course you can recover from a single, non-test 50%. What a perfect “soft” failure for your kid to experience. If this has really messed with her head, I’d be seriously concerned about her ability to weather future failures or setbacks where the consequences are much greater. Is it really just get an A or completely give up?

Well there are many grades between an A and a F (50%) she could get so no it's not get an A and give up. It's, "I got a F in art. Never mind. This subject just isn't for me and it's MS so who cares. I want to go to college for electrical engineering anyway" mentality.

You said she got an F on a single assignment and then just gave up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is the ultimate goal to have children turn in work on time or is to learn the subject material? You can want it to be both, but if only one is happening, you need to choose.

It should be both. They need to gradually learn these “soft skills” like turning work in on time, taking notes, etc. these are life skills that school overseas are still teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So how do these kids get through college? Are retakes a thing now in college too?

Some don’t, some mature. My DD had a retake in a freshman class. She attends a VA public college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is the ultimate goal to have children turn in work on time or is to learn the subject material? You can want it to be both, but if only one is happening, you need to choose.

It is not that simple. First of all, retakes are ok on some things and to a point where knowledge of the material is demonstrated. It shouldn't not be allowed on late HW at all. What is happening is kids are retaking things, turning in tons of things late, and still getting As and Bs in classes with kids who are sticking to the deadlines and doing the work. That's not fair. And yes, life is not but this is one of those things that sort of always has been. Do work = get credit. Don't do it = then no.

And lbh, grades are a differentiator for college. Why should the performers have to be judge on par with those who are not but just appear that they are b/c they're allowed to turn things in a week late (thus, getting a week's extension) for full credit. It's BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid got a 7/14 in an art elective in MS on an assignment (not a test). She did the work. Did poorly and now has completely given up on the class. So yes, let's hand out 50s like candy to kids. Especially in classes no one gives a crap about. Retakes allow kids to feel like there is a reason to keep trying.

And no, there is no retake on this stupid assignment and even if there was, I wouldn't have her do it. It's MS and art. Who cares.

Just sharing to show you how easily kids can give up when they see no way to dig out of a hole. Can't really recover from a 50.

I also have a middle school student who is learning a different lesson. He can work very hard at a tedious assignment for a class he doesn’t like and doesn’t agree with the grading and earn maybe a 70, or skip the assignment completely and not do anything and take the 50. He’s choosing what he does and doesn’t turn in. I am not sure I like that lesson either. It’s the 8th grade monthly science research project that’s really not about science at all that some schools are assigning to promote cultural diversity.

That is pretty much how most non honors classes are in high school. Kids just pick and choose when they want to work. Get an A and you can skip the next three assignments. I don't think I have a single assignment where more than 75% of the class turned it in.

The sad part is that this is a middle school honors class. You just described the work ethic of my son and I’m sure there are many like him. He does that in honors classes too. He’s very content with Cs with minimal effort, picking and choosing assignments. I’m hoping he matures by the end of high school.

It is HS honors too. Across the board at our school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was completely irresponsible in high school. Didn’t care about grades at all. I didn’t study at all. My parents definitely helped me out. I matured throughout college and by the time I graduated, I was able to be successful in a job. If my parents had just let me sink in high school I wouldn’t have gotten to go to college and become successful.

I think 50s and retakes are good so you don’t just tank a kids future. They will grow up.

This is a critical distinction, however. It is not the school letting you slide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the ultimate goal to have children turn in work on time or is to learn the subject material? You can want it to be both, but if only one is happening, you need to choose.

Lots of times neither is happening and students are still passing.

Are you upset about your kids or other kids? If it’s your kids, teach them accountability. If it’s others, mind your own business.

No, b/c this clearly affects other kids. So it is our business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So how do these kids get through college? Are retakes a thing now in college too?

I taught at that level for 10 years. I had 3 tests, all equal weight. Students could drop their lowest test score. If a student did poorly on one of the earlier exams, they could take the final and drop the other grade. If they did well on the first two exams, they didn't have to take the final. It allowed students to show me that they had mastered the material over the course of the semester without allowing for retests or extra credit. I also set up term papers so that there were 3 phases: a research question, hypotheses, and theory section. They turned in each phase, I graded it an provided comments. They turned in all three phases with a conclusion the week before finals. That gave them a chance to learn from my comments and improve papers as they went. I also had each paper section listed in the syllabus with the due date and what was required. Once a week I put up the schedule of due dates and discussed what the expectations were for the next assignment.

As a Professor it meant that I had fewer tests to grade during finals week and their final papers were so much better because they had been writing the paper over the course of the semester and not at the last minute in an overnight session. I hope that it reduced the stress for my students because they knew they had opportunities to improve their performance and because it showed them how to break a paper down into stages and build from there. I still had students fail the class because they blew off tests or didn't turn in paper sections.

The reality is, the students who wanted A's were in class regularly, turned in papers on time, and tended to do well on the early exams. They also worried enough that they took the final even though they had an A. I had students who were happy with a C or a B, they did their work and really made no effort to improve their grade. I had students who turned in their already graded paper assignments with a new conclusion for their final paper. Some students took advantage of the set up and went from a C to a B or a B to an A, those were the students I was aiming for.

The A students are normally going to do what it takes to earn their A. The students who are interested in learning and growing are the ones who benefited from my system. They could come to office hours and learn how to write a better paper or clarify material they didn't understand. Or they could take the comments on their exams and papers and improve their performance. I was never going to reach the kid who is going to fail or get a D because they really didn't want to be there. And those were the ones who parents called to complain about their adult child failing my class.