Let's talk about the real world and retakes and deadlines

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was completely irresponsible in high school. Didn’t care about grades at all. I didn’t study at all. My parents definitely helped me out. I matured throughout college and by the time I graduated, I was able to be successful in a job. If my parents had just let me sink in high school I wouldn’t have gotten to go to college and become successful.

I think 50s and retakes are good so you don’t just tank a kids future. They will grow up.

This is a critical distinction, however. It is not the school letting you slide.

Not every kid has parents who are paying attention. Like it or not, there are kids who could do better but whose parents are not paying attention for a wide variety of reasons. Maybe some of the kids who can do better and who have less attentive parents are taking advantage of the opportunities.

I am not sure how I feel about the policy but I wish that it was uniform across the County and it is not.

Grades in high school shouldn't be a competition, kids who earn an A on the first test can look at the restest options and be happy that they don't have to stress out over taking the test a second time or completing the work to show that they are ready for a second test. The A student, or student happy with their grade, can focus on the new material. The student who wants to pull up their grade has a larger burden. They need to focus on learning the past material and the new material at the same time. That is not an easy task. The kid who got the A on the first go around should be happy with that. If another kid wants to redo work while learning new material, more power to them.

I do think the rule should be adjusted that once the next test is past, you cannot retake an older test. At some point in time Teachers need to be able to set grades and not have to worry about extra grading based on past materials. And the policy needs to be uniform across the County.

This is not my problem. And the fact is, grades in HS ARE a competition.

Colleges use grades for admissions, yes. And Grad Schools use grades for admissions. So yes, grades are a competition. But they are not a competition in a given class, at least I doubt that many Teachers are grading on a curve in FCPS HS.

If you are so worried that a kid who doesn't have attentive parents is using the makeup policy to better themselves then I would suggest that you need to view the world more broadly then that kid might get into a college ahead of your kid who has attentive parents.

The reality is that admissions to the "top tier" schools is a bit of a crap shoot anyway. Lots of kids have the same, or similar, GPAs, AP scores, and SAT/ACT scores. If you are worried that a few kids who did poorly on a test and then did all the make up work to get an A on it so they have the same grade as your kid then you have not looked at the probability of your kid getting into Harvard or whatever school you have your eyes on.

Kids who are earning A's in AP/IB classes are not going to have an issue getting into a really good college, even if it is not one of the prized schools.

So I stand by my statement, High School grades are not a competition. Your child's A does not depend on other kids getting a B. I would guess that kids taking advantage of the makeup policy are more likely kids looking to get a C or B and pass and not the kids dead set on getting all A's.

I don't need to broaden anything. I see it happening. And while I try to not verbalize that frustration to my child, I here it from DC and friends. THEY see it happening and it is demoralizing. I'm not sure why that is any less valid than the opposite mentioned here (the concern over failing kids not having the opportunity to dig themselves out of their hole). These kids bust their butts only to see other kids get what amounts to extensions of time to submit work for the same or better grades. And, I hate to tell you, it is not C graded kids only taking advantage. It's just not. And those kids are competing with the high performing students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the real world you get lots of second chances. If a brief sucks, somebody sits down with you, explains why, and you re-do it. Or if you submit it, a law clerk figures out what the hell you were trying to say and the judge rules based on the law; you don’t get fired for having bad citations. Or if you do, you find another client.

Sure you’ll get fired for not showing up or for making a really massive mistake. But the stakes are rarely as high as you’re making them out to be.

There is nothing about the real world that high schools need to be prepared for that precludes retakes.

This. I don’t know where the idea that there are no redos in adult life comes from.

No one said there are never any redos. But, those of you thinking you can just have second chances at anything you want, or most things, are kidding yourselves. And, in some of the examples given (tax day) that is available to everyone and is known well in advance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the real world you get lots of second chances. If a brief sucks, somebody sits down with you, explains why, and you re-do it. Or if you submit it, a law clerk figures out what the hell you were trying to say and the judge rules based on the law; you don’t get fired for having bad citations. Or if you do, you find another client.

Sure you’ll get fired for not showing up or for making a really massive mistake. But the stakes are rarely as high as you’re making them out to be.

There is nothing about the real world that high schools need to be prepared for that precludes retakes.

Not my job. I get two observations ea h year as a teacher. One is announced and the other isn’t. I can’t redo either unless the unannounced is during a test. My brother got fired when he missed an important deadline at his job. Fired. Yes, in the real world, there are plenty of jobs where you don’t get redos and second chances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the ultimate goal to have children turn in work on time or is to learn the subject material? You can want it to be both, but if only one is happening, you need to choose.

Lots of times neither is happening and students are still passing.

Are you upset about your kids or other kids? If it’s your kids, teach them accountability. If it’s others, mind your own business.

No, b/c this clearly affects other kids. So it is our business.

How does it affect other kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how do these kids get through college? Are retakes a thing now in college too?

I taught at that level for 10 years. I had 3 tests, all equal weight. Students could drop their lowest test score. If a student did poorly on one of the earlier exams, they could take the final and drop the other grade. If they did well on the first two exams, they didn't have to take the final. It allowed students to show me that they had mastered the material over the course of the semester without allowing for retests or extra credit. I also set up term papers so that there were 3 phases: a research question, hypotheses, and theory section. They turned in each phase, I graded it an provided comments. They turned in all three phases with a conclusion the week before finals. That gave them a chance to learn from my comments and improve papers as they went. I also had each paper section listed in the syllabus with the due date and what was required. Once a week I put up the schedule of due dates and discussed what the expectations were for the next assignment.

As a Professor it meant that I had fewer tests to grade during finals week and their final papers were so much better because they had been writing the paper over the course of the semester and not at the last minute in an overnight session. I hope that it reduced the stress for my students because they knew they had opportunities to improve their performance and because it showed them how to break a paper down into stages and build from there. I still had students fail the class because they blew off tests or didn't turn in paper sections.

The reality is, the students who wanted A's were in class regularly, turned in papers on time, and tended to do well on the early exams. They also worried enough that they took the final even though they had an A. I had students who were happy with a C or a B, they did their work and really made no effort to improve their grade. I had students who turned in their already graded paper assignments with a new conclusion for their final paper. Some students took advantage of the set up and went from a C to a B or a B to an A, those were the students I was aiming for.

The A students are normally going to do what it takes to earn their A. The students who are interested in learning and growing are the ones who benefited from my system. They could come to office hours and learn how to write a better paper or clarify material they didn't understand. Or they could take the comments on their exams and papers and improve their performance. I was never going to reach the kid who is going to fail or get a D because they really didn't want to be there. And those were the ones who parents called to complain about their adult child failing my class.

This ^^^

What a great professor and thanks for naturally chunking assignments.

My son is an A student with ADHD. He takes honors and AP classes. He uses retakes. He hands in assignments on time, thanks to me acting like a nagging mother and being his frontal lobe. But the re-tests is where things help. His school allows retakes on any test regardless of grade and takes highest score. He has had some 82s, 85s, 89s they he retook. They're not easy. The teachers require a lot of remediation prior to retakes. He is not a bad student, he cares about doing well, and he wants good grades and to learn. Not sure why he will be a dreg on society for seeking retakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how do these kids get through college? Are retakes a thing now in college too?

I taught at that level for 10 years. I had 3 tests, all equal weight. Students could drop their lowest test score. If a student did poorly on one of the earlier exams, they could take the final and drop the other grade. If they did well on the first two exams, they didn't have to take the final. It allowed students to show me that they had mastered the material over the course of the semester without allowing for retests or extra credit. I also set up term papers so that there were 3 phases: a research question, hypotheses, and theory section. They turned in each phase, I graded it an provided comments. They turned in all three phases with a conclusion the week before finals. That gave them a chance to learn from my comments and improve papers as they went. I also had each paper section listed in the syllabus with the due date and what was required. Once a week I put up the schedule of due dates and discussed what the expectations were for the next assignment.

As a Professor it meant that I had fewer tests to grade during finals week and their final papers were so much better because they had been writing the paper over the course of the semester and not at the last minute in an overnight session. I hope that it reduced the stress for my students because they knew they had opportunities to improve their performance and because it showed them how to break a paper down into stages and build from there. I still had students fail the class because they blew off tests or didn't turn in paper sections.

The reality is, the students who wanted A's were in class regularly, turned in papers on time, and tended to do well on the early exams. They also worried enough that they took the final even though they had an A. I had students who were happy with a C or a B, they did their work and really made no effort to improve their grade. I had students who turned in their already graded paper assignments with a new conclusion for their final paper. Some students took advantage of the set up and went from a C to a B or a B to an A, those were the students I was aiming for.

The A students are normally going to do what it takes to earn their A. The students who are interested in learning and growing are the ones who benefited from my system. They could come to office hours and learn how to write a better paper or clarify material they didn't understand. Or they could take the comments on their exams and papers and improve their performance. I was never going to reach the kid who is going to fail or get a D because they really didn't want to be there. And those were the ones who parents called to complain about their adult child failing my class.

This ^^^

What a great professor and thanks for naturally chunking assignments.

My son is an A student with ADHD. He takes honors and AP classes. He uses retakes. He hands in assignments on time, thanks to me acting like a nagging mother and being his frontal lobe. But the re-tests is where things help. His school allows retakes on any test regardless of grade and takes highest score. He has had some 82s, 85s, 89s they he retook. They're not easy. The teachers require a lot of remediation prior to retakes. He is not a bad student, he cares about doing well, and he wants good grades and to learn. Not sure why he will be a dreg on society for seeking retakes.

Honestly, it benefited me as much as it did the students. I had less to grade and did not have to worry about make up tests. The papers were far easier to read, which made grading easier, faster and more enjoyable. I graded fewer exams during finals so i was less stressed. It helped the students because they had less to worry about leading into finals and they had a chance to improve over the course of the semester. it was a win-win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was completely irresponsible in high school. Didn’t care about grades at all. I didn’t study at all. My parents definitely helped me out. I matured throughout college and by the time I graduated, I was able to be successful in a job. If my parents had just let me sink in high school I wouldn’t have gotten to go to college and become successful.

I think 50s and retakes are good so you don’t just tank a kids future. They will grow up.

This is a critical distinction, however. It is not the school letting you slide.

Not every kid has parents who are paying attention. Like it or not, there are kids who could do better but whose parents are not paying attention for a wide variety of reasons. Maybe some of the kids who can do better and who have less attentive parents are taking advantage of the opportunities.

I am not sure how I feel about the policy but I wish that it was uniform across the County and it is not.

Grades in high school shouldn't be a competition, kids who earn an A on the first test can look at the restest options and be happy that they don't have to stress out over taking the test a second time or completing the work to show that they are ready for a second test. The A student, or student happy with their grade, can focus on the new material. The student who wants to pull up their grade has a larger burden. They need to focus on learning the past material and the new material at the same time. That is not an easy task. The kid who got the A on the first go around should be happy with that. If another kid wants to redo work while learning new material, more power to them.

I do think the rule should be adjusted that once the next test is past, you cannot retake an older test. At some point in time Teachers need to be able to set grades and not have to worry about extra grading based on past materials. And the policy needs to be uniform across the County.

This is not my problem. And the fact is, grades in HS ARE a competition.

Colleges use grades for admissions, yes. And Grad Schools use grades for admissions. So yes, grades are a competition. But they are not a competition in a given class, at least I doubt that many Teachers are grading on a curve in FCPS HS.

If you are so worried that a kid who doesn't have attentive parents is using the makeup policy to better themselves then I would suggest that you need to view the world more broadly then that kid might get into a college ahead of your kid who has attentive parents.

The reality is that admissions to the "top tier" schools is a bit of a crap shoot anyway. Lots of kids have the same, or similar, GPAs, AP scores, and SAT/ACT scores. If you are worried that a few kids who did poorly on a test and then did all the make up work to get an A on it so they have the same grade as your kid then you have not looked at the probability of your kid getting into Harvard or whatever school you have your eyes on.

Kids who are earning A's in AP/IB classes are not going to have an issue getting into a really good college, even if it is not one of the prized schools.

So I stand by my statement, High School grades are not a competition. Your child's A does not depend on other kids getting a B. I would guess that kids taking advantage of the makeup policy are more likely kids looking to get a C or B and pass and not the kids dead set on getting all A's.

I don't need to broaden anything. I see it happening. And while I try to not verbalize that frustration to my child, I here it from DC and friends. THEY see it happening and it is demoralizing. I'm not sure why that is any less valid than the opposite mentioned here (the concern over failing kids not having the opportunity to dig themselves out of their hole). These kids bust their butts only to see other kids get what amounts to extensions of time to submit work for the same or better grades. And, I hate to tell you, it is not C graded kids only taking advantage. It's just not. And those kids are competing with the high performing students.

This doesn't make sense. IF the policy is any test can be retaken and the highest grade is awarded, then any kid (yours included can strive for 100%). So how can anyone do better than your child? If you are upset a kid who scored 82 retook and got a 97 when your kid got a 95, well they're both A's so they did not actually do better GPA wise. If your kid got an A- (90-92) then they could have retaken to try to improve to an A. Don't be mad some other child did and yours did not. My DD's Chemistry H teacher said my child is the only one who takes advantage of retakes in his class to get 100%. He is shocked no one else does. I'm not because he requires anyone who wants a retake to do an assignment (like a quiz) and score 75% BEFORE being able to take the retest. It's tough but anyone can do it. My DD chooses to.

IF the policy is only tests below 80 can be retaken with no more than an 80 awarded, then chances are no one is going to surpass your prized Larla in a grade. They can only get an 80.

Settle down. Comparison is the thief of joy.

[Anonymous]

These retakes, etc are to promote equity. Wonder what is next when they release black and brown students still aren't doing better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was completely irresponsible in high school. Didn’t care about grades at all. I didn’t study at all. My parents definitely helped me out. I matured throughout college and by the time I graduated, I was able to be successful in a job. If my parents had just let me sink in high school I wouldn’t have gotten to go to college and become successful.

I think 50s and retakes are good so you don’t just tank a kids future. They will grow up.

This is a critical distinction, however. It is not the school letting you slide.

Not every kid has parents who are paying attention. Like it or not, there are kids who could do better but whose parents are not paying attention for a wide variety of reasons. Maybe some of the kids who can do better and who have less attentive parents are taking advantage of the opportunities.

I am not sure how I feel about the policy but I wish that it was uniform across the County and it is not.

Grades in high school shouldn't be a competition, kids who earn an A on the first test can look at the restest options and be happy that they don't have to stress out over taking the test a second time or completing the work to show that they are ready for a second test. The A student, or student happy with their grade, can focus on the new material. The student who wants to pull up their grade has a larger burden. They need to focus on learning the past material and the new material at the same time. That is not an easy task. The kid who got the A on the first go around should be happy with that. If another kid wants to redo work while learning new material, more power to them.

I do think the rule should be adjusted that once the next test is past, you cannot retake an older test. At some point in time Teachers need to be able to set grades and not have to worry about extra grading based on past materials. And the policy needs to be uniform across the County.

This is not my problem. And the fact is, grades in HS ARE a competition.

Colleges use grades for admissions, yes. And Grad Schools use grades for admissions. So yes, grades are a competition. But they are not a competition in a given class, at least I doubt that many Teachers are grading on a curve in FCPS HS.

If you are so worried that a kid who doesn't have attentive parents is using the makeup policy to better themselves then I would suggest that you need to view the world more broadly then that kid might get into a college ahead of your kid who has attentive parents.

The reality is that admissions to the "top tier" schools is a bit of a crap shoot anyway. Lots of kids have the same, or similar, GPAs, AP scores, and SAT/ACT scores. If you are worried that a few kids who did poorly on a test and then did all the make up work to get an A on it so they have the same grade as your kid then you have not looked at the probability of your kid getting into Harvard or whatever school you have your eyes on.

Kids who are earning A's in AP/IB classes are not going to have an issue getting into a really good college, even if it is not one of the prized schools.

So I stand by my statement, High School grades are not a competition. Your child's A does not depend on other kids getting a B. I would guess that kids taking advantage of the makeup policy are more likely kids looking to get a C or B and pass and not the kids dead set on getting all A's.

I don't need to broaden anything. I see it happening. And while I try to not verbalize that frustration to my child, I here it from DC and friends. THEY see it happening and it is demoralizing. I'm not sure why that is any less valid than the opposite mentioned here (the concern over failing kids not having the opportunity to dig themselves out of their hole). These kids bust their butts only to see other kids get what amounts to extensions of time to submit work for the same or better grades. And, I hate to tell you, it is not C graded kids only taking advantage. It's just not. And those kids are competing with the high performing students.

This doesn't make sense. IF the policy is any test can be retaken and the highest grade is awarded, then any kid (yours included can strive for 100%). So how can anyone do better than your child? If you are upset a kid who scored 82 retook and got a 97 when your kid got a 95, well they're both A's so they did not actually do better GPA wise. If your kid got an A- (90-92) then they could have retaken to try to improve to an A. Don't be mad some other child did and yours did not. My DD's Chemistry H teacher said my child is the only one who takes advantage of retakes in his class to get 100%. He is shocked no one else does. I'm not because he requires anyone who wants a retake to do an assignment (like a quiz) and score 75% BEFORE being able to take the retest. It's tough but anyone can do it. My DD chooses to.

IF the policy is only tests below 80 can be retaken with no more than an 80 awarded, then chances are no one is going to surpass your prized Larla in a grade. They can only get an 80.

Settle down. Comparison is the thief of joy.

The poster is probably annoyed that kids who would have had a C or a B can redo work and end up with an A. That A makes those kids competitors for colleges that her kid is interested in and that upsets her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These retakes, etc are to promote equity. Wonder what is next when they release black and brown students still aren't doing better.

My black child has done retakes and has a 4.4 weighted GPA (3.9 UW). Is it great? No. Will she go to an IVY with that GPA? Also no. But she is doing better due to retakes? Yes she is.

Shrug!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These retakes, etc are to promote equity. Wonder what is next when they release black and brown students still aren't doing better.

My black child has done retakes and has a 4.4 weighted GPA (3.9 UW). Is it great? No. Will she go to an IVY with that GPA? Also no. But she is doing better due to retakes? Yes she is.

Shrug!

If you are reading DCUMs, you are probably not the demographic that needs this extra help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These retakes, etc are to promote equity. Wonder what is next when they release black and brown students still aren't doing better.

My black child has done retakes and has a 4.4 weighted GPA (3.9 UW). Is it great? No. Will she go to an IVY with that GPA? Also no. But she is doing better due to retakes? Yes she is.

Shrug!

If you are reading DCUMs, you are probably not the demographic that needs this extra help.

But my child is black and uses retakes. The comment was suggesting retakes don't help black and brown kids do better. I'm suggesting it has helped mine.

[Anonymous]

In our MS, the highest grade you can make on a retake is an 80, and it has to be made up in a week (? or something like that) and YOU have to initiate the retake. It's not automatic.

So, if you get a 56 on a test, you at least get a chance to bring the grade up. Not to an A, but teetering on the edge of a B and C. I'm not sure what schools other posters are at, but 80 is the highest grade in our school - and this applies to tests only. Not to quizzes or homework - those remain.

My DD excelled at online school last year, and has had some bumps this year. She is a Straight A student, etc etc but has appreciated the chance to retake in her one class. I know she had struggled with the fact that it was all optional open note last year and now it's not - I don't think that affected her grades per se (although some will say that it did, but truthfully she did not use open notes) but it has affected her confidence big time.

[Anonymous]

Do students have to do anything before the retake? Meet with the teacher? Do a practice packet of work?

[Anonymous]

Still don't understand why Op is so mad about a student who gets an F?