Friend just told me her child is transgender

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Her child is now living as a female and has a new name. I was shocked but tried to act like it was not a big deal. I was just wondering what the proper response is.

My response is to be polite, call the child by the new name and avoid using pronouns.

Meanwhile, in my mind, they will always be the gender that corresponds to their anatomy.

How weird you know the anatomy of the child..... If you are going to use biological terms like anatomy then use the biological term male or female- the sex of the individual is determined by their anatomy. M, F, Intersex. Gender has nothing to do with anatomy.

What a fool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Her child is now living as a female and has a new name. I was shocked but tried to act like it was not a big deal. I was just wondering what the proper response is.

My response is to be polite, call the child by the new name and avoid using pronouns.

Meanwhile, in my mind, they will always be the gender that corresponds to their anatomy.

This, exactly

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is trans. When I told people, it was just to share information. I had a support system to vent to and share feelings with while he transitioned. I mostly told people so they wouldn't be lost when I said my son instead of my daughter, and so they could use his new name if they saw him. The best responses were along the lines of "thanks for letting me know. Please correct me if I mess up and use the wrong name or pronoun." I could tell it was awkward for some people to ask questions, but I was happy to answer any questions about the transition process. Many people don't know (or don't know they know) trans people, don't really think about it until someone they know transitions, and don't really know what resources are available to learn about it.

One of my dearest friends and my kid's friends become trans a few years ago. I have been openly supportive and I genuinely love the kid and the family, but let's also be clear: it's their experience that has radicalized me against children transitioning.

I wouldn't share that with the family. But the rapidity with which that kid was put on blockers, cross sex hormones at 15.... And the change in them.... I've seen a kid go from being fairly happy go lucky go withdrawn, depressed, anorexic, and completely obsessed with their appearance and presentation.

You might say that's just being a teen and perhaps it is. But the difference between my kid and their friend is astonishing... And my kid isn't popular or gender conforming. They just don't give a damn.

You probably don’t know all the details. I mean, I’m sure you think you do, but there’s no way you can. I’m sure some people thought we moved too quickly, but they don’t know about the years of therapy for anxiety and depression before coming out, then the year+ of therapy with a gender specialist before we did anything beyond changing hair and wardrobe. We researched everything, every step, and discussed the options with our child before coming to decisions and carrying them out. We didn’t advertise to friends and family, so I’m sure changes seemed sudden.

I think it’s unfair that you’re comparing their child to yours. It sounds like two different situations, plus they’re entirely different people with different personalities. The question is, are they happier now than if treatment had been withheld. You can’t know that, but the parents and child probably have a decent idea. My son still has anxiety and depression. The pandemic made that worse. He seems much less happy, not to mention happy go lucky, than his peers. But I don’t think I’d still have a living child if he hadn’t transitioned.

And one reason many trans people put so much consideration into their appearance is they’re judged so harshly for it.

I'm sorry for your family's struggle. It's not uncommon and it is unfortunate, and I'd agree, the pandemic didn't help.

However, you aren't my friend or their family, and I do know for a fact their child didn't have much oversight.

My child probably has shorter hair than yours. We just don't consider it to be something that has to do with their gender.

The fact that you’re suggesting trans kids are basing gender identity on their hairstyle says a lot about you. The only people I know who make comments about someone’s gender based on their hairstyles are ultra conservatives who make fun of guys who have hair past their collars and call them sissies and who call girls with short hair all sorts of names. My son is trans whether he has short or long hair. His hair is long right now, as a matter of fact. I’m sure your child’s hair is more about their preferences, personality, style, facial structure, and probably a lot of other personal choices rather than gender.

Also, I’m not sure why your friends choices make you opposed to all children transitioning. Just because they chose not to educate themselves about the process doesn’t mean everyone plays fast and loose with medical decisions for their kids. Decisions like that should be between the families and their doctors, not legislators, just like women’s health and treatment should be private and not decided by people who’ve never dealt with the issues first hand.

Unfortunately, this board is full of cishet people posting their opinions like this is the Republican transphobe discussion corner or something. They're against people transitioning as children because of the way some kid they know behaves around them now that they're older and on cross sex hormones. Unsaid is that they don't want adults to transition either. They don't think trans people are real and think that HRT should be banned and trans people should stay in the closet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is trans. When I told people, it was just to share information. I had a support system to vent to and share feelings with while he transitioned. I mostly told people so they wouldn't be lost when I said my son instead of my daughter, and so they could use his new name if they saw him. The best responses were along the lines of "thanks for letting me know. Please correct me if I mess up and use the wrong name or pronoun." I could tell it was awkward for some people to ask questions, but I was happy to answer any questions about the transition process. Many people don't know (or don't know they know) trans people, don't really think about it until someone they know transitions, and don't really know what resources are available to learn about it.

One of my dearest friends and my kid's friends become trans a few years ago. I have been openly supportive and I genuinely love the kid and the family, but let's also be clear: it's their experience that has radicalized me against children transitioning.

I wouldn't share that with the family. But the rapidity with which that kid was put on blockers, cross sex hormones at 15.... And the change in them.... I've seen a kid go from being fairly happy go lucky go withdrawn, depressed, anorexic, and completely obsessed with their appearance and presentation.

You might say that's just being a teen and perhaps it is. But the difference between my kid and their friend is astonishing... And my kid isn't popular or gender conforming. They just don't give a damn.

You probably don’t know all the details. I mean, I’m sure you think you do, but there’s no way you can. I’m sure some people thought we moved too quickly, but they don’t know about the years of therapy for anxiety and depression before coming out, then the year+ of therapy with a gender specialist before we did anything beyond changing hair and wardrobe. We researched everything, every step, and discussed the options with our child before coming to decisions and carrying them out. We didn’t advertise to friends and family, so I’m sure changes seemed sudden.

I think it’s unfair that you’re comparing their child to yours. It sounds like two different situations, plus they’re entirely different people with different personalities. The question is, are they happier now than if treatment had been withheld. You can’t know that, but the parents and child probably have a decent idea. My son still has anxiety and depression. The pandemic made that worse. He seems much less happy, not to mention happy go lucky, than his peers. But I don’t think I’d still have a living child if he hadn’t transitioned.

And one reason many trans people put so much consideration into their appearance is they’re judged so harshly for it.

I'm sorry for your family's struggle. It's not uncommon and it is unfortunate, and I'd agree, the pandemic didn't help.

However, you aren't my friend or their family, and I do know for a fact their child didn't have much oversight.

My child probably has shorter hair than yours. We just don't consider it to be something that has to do with their gender.

The fact that you’re suggesting trans kids are basing gender identity on their hairstyle says a lot about you. The only people I know who make comments about someone’s gender based on their hairstyles are ultra conservatives who make fun of guys who have hair past their collars and call them sissies and who call girls with short hair all sorts of names. My son is trans whether he has short or long hair. His hair is long right now, as a matter of fact. I’m sure your child’s hair is more about their preferences, personality, style, facial structure, and probably a lot of other personal choices rather than gender.

Also, I’m not sure why your friends choices make you opposed to all children transitioning. Just because they chose not to educate themselves about the process doesn’t mean everyone plays fast and loose with medical decisions for their kids. Decisions like that should be between the families and their doctors, not legislators, just like women’s health and treatment should be private and not decided by people who’ve never dealt with the issues first hand.

Unfortunately, this board is full of cishet people posting their opinions like this is the Republican transphobe discussion corner or something. They're against people transitioning as children because of the way some kid they know behaves around them now that they're older and on cross sex hormones. Unsaid is that they don't want adults to transition either. They don't think trans people are real and think that HRT should be banned and trans people should stay in the closet.

Yup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is trans. When I told people, it was just to share information. I had a support system to vent to and share feelings with while he transitioned. I mostly told people so they wouldn't be lost when I said my son instead of my daughter, and so they could use his new name if they saw him. The best responses were along the lines of "thanks for letting me know. Please correct me if I mess up and use the wrong name or pronoun." I could tell it was awkward for some people to ask questions, but I was happy to answer any questions about the transition process. Many people don't know (or don't know they know) trans people, don't really think about it until someone they know transitions, and don't really know what resources are available to learn about it.

One of my dearest friends and my kid's friends become trans a few years ago. I have been openly supportive and I genuinely love the kid and the family, but let's also be clear: it's their experience that has radicalized me against children transitioning.

I wouldn't share that with the family. But the rapidity with which that kid was put on blockers, cross sex hormones at 15.... And the change in them.... I've seen a kid go from being fairly happy go lucky go withdrawn, depressed, anorexic, and completely obsessed with their appearance and presentation.

You might say that's just being a teen and perhaps it is. But the difference between my kid and their friend is astonishing... And my kid isn't popular or gender conforming. They just don't give a damn.

You probably don’t know all the details. I mean, I’m sure you think you do, but there’s no way you can. I’m sure some people thought we moved too quickly, but they don’t know about the years of therapy for anxiety and depression before coming out, then the year+ of therapy with a gender specialist before we did anything beyond changing hair and wardrobe. We researched everything, every step, and discussed the options with our child before coming to decisions and carrying them out. We didn’t advertise to friends and family, so I’m sure changes seemed sudden.

I think it’s unfair that you’re comparing their child to yours. It sounds like two different situations, plus they’re entirely different people with different personalities. The question is, are they happier now than if treatment had been withheld. You can’t know that, but the parents and child probably have a decent idea. My son still has anxiety and depression. The pandemic made that worse. He seems much less happy, not to mention happy go lucky, than his peers. But I don’t think I’d still have a living child if he hadn’t transitioned.

And one reason many trans people put so much consideration into their appearance is they’re judged so harshly for it.

I'm sorry for your family's struggle. It's not uncommon and it is unfortunate, and I'd agree, the pandemic didn't help.

However, you aren't my friend or their family, and I do know for a fact their child didn't have much oversight.

My child probably has shorter hair than yours. We just don't consider it to be something that has to do with their gender.

The fact that you’re suggesting trans kids are basing gender identity on their hairstyle says a lot about you. The only people I know who make comments about someone’s gender based on their hairstyles are ultra conservatives who make fun of guys who have hair past their collars and call them sissies and who call girls with short hair all sorts of names. My son is trans whether he has short or long hair. His hair is long right now, as a matter of fact. I’m sure your child’s hair is more about their preferences, personality, style, facial structure, and probably a lot of other personal choices rather than gender.

Also, I’m not sure why your friends choices make you opposed to all children transitioning. Just because they chose not to educate themselves about the process doesn’t mean everyone plays fast and loose with medical decisions for their kids. Decisions like that should be between the families and their doctors, not legislators, just like women’s health and treatment should be private and not decided by people who’ve never dealt with the issues first hand.

Unfortunately, this board is full of cishet people posting their opinions like this is the Republican transphobe discussion corner or something. They're against people transitioning as children because of the way some kid they know behaves around them now that they're older and on cross sex hormones. Unsaid is that they don't want adults to transition either. They don't think trans people are real and think that HRT should be banned and trans people should stay in the closet.

Not at all true.

I know you want to make this about some horrible conservatives and bless yourself for being more enlightened, but quite a few of us are rational enough to see a few things.

1.) Outside of your liberal love bubble, gay kids will actually be pushed toward converting their gender. Those conservatives you have so much, many would rather have a transdaughter than a gay son. Now they can.

2.) I don't have any issue with your daughter embracing her identity. I do have an issue with her puberty being suspended and her then being given estrogen before she's a legal adult. Why?

Because suspending puberty suspends brain development. Because you're doing these things to make her a more "convincing" girl, to make her conform to a bunch of regressive sex stereotypes... And the cost to her is actually her brain development, her fertility, and quite possibly her ability to enjoy sex as an adult. That's quite a lot to give up just because an eleven-year old doesn't want their voice to change.

3.) Nice how when I brought up a negative example, you just blamed the family for "not educating themselves enough." I mean, you're a person who hasn't looked at lupron side effects, or apparently even watched an episode of Jazz Jennings, but okay. Blaming the family *at all* is the wrong approach. This shouldn't be the wild west. Your kid's future happiness shouldn't entirely depend only on their parents being in a liberal, accepting bubble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is trans. When I told people, it was just to share information. I had a support system to vent to and share feelings with while he transitioned. I mostly told people so they wouldn't be lost when I said my son instead of my daughter, and so they could use his new name if they saw him. The best responses were along the lines of "thanks for letting me know. Please correct me if I mess up and use the wrong name or pronoun." I could tell it was awkward for some people to ask questions, but I was happy to answer any questions about the transition process. Many people don't know (or don't know they know) trans people, don't really think about it until someone they know transitions, and don't really know what resources are available to learn about it.

One of my dearest friends and my kid's friends become trans a few years ago. I have been openly supportive and I genuinely love the kid and the family, but let's also be clear: it's their experience that has radicalized me against children transitioning.

I wouldn't share that with the family. But the rapidity with which that kid was put on blockers, cross sex hormones at 15.... And the change in them.... I've seen a kid go from being fairly happy go lucky go withdrawn, depressed, anorexic, and completely obsessed with their appearance and presentation.

You might say that's just being a teen and perhaps it is. But the difference between my kid and their friend is astonishing... And my kid isn't popular or gender conforming. They just don't give a damn.

You probably don’t know all the details. I mean, I’m sure you think you do, but there’s no way you can. I’m sure some people thought we moved too quickly, but they don’t know about the years of therapy for anxiety and depression before coming out, then the year+ of therapy with a gender specialist before we did anything beyond changing hair and wardrobe. We researched everything, every step, and discussed the options with our child before coming to decisions and carrying them out. We didn’t advertise to friends and family, so I’m sure changes seemed sudden.

I think it’s unfair that you’re comparing their child to yours. It sounds like two different situations, plus they’re entirely different people with different personalities. The question is, are they happier now than if treatment had been withheld. You can’t know that, but the parents and child probably have a decent idea. My son still has anxiety and depression. The pandemic made that worse. He seems much less happy, not to mention happy go lucky, than his peers. But I don’t think I’d still have a living child if he hadn’t transitioned.

And one reason many trans people put so much consideration into their appearance is they’re judged so harshly for it.

I'm sorry for your family's struggle. It's not uncommon and it is unfortunate, and I'd agree, the pandemic didn't help.

However, you aren't my friend or their family, and I do know for a fact their child didn't have much oversight.

My child probably has shorter hair than yours. We just don't consider it to be something that has to do with their gender.

The fact that you’re suggesting trans kids are basing gender identity on their hairstyle says a lot about you. The only people I know who make comments about someone’s gender based on their hairstyles are ultra conservatives who make fun of guys who have hair past their collars and call them sissies and who call girls with short hair all sorts of names. My son is trans whether he has short or long hair. His hair is long right now, as a matter of fact. I’m sure your child’s hair is more about their preferences, personality, style, facial structure, and probably a lot of other personal choices rather than gender.

Also, I’m not sure why your friends choices make you opposed to all children transitioning. Just because they chose not to educate themselves about the process doesn’t mean everyone plays fast and loose with medical decisions for their kids. Decisions like that should be between the families and their doctors, not legislators, just like women’s health and treatment should be private and not decided by people who’ve never dealt with the issues first hand.

I wasn't saying it has anything to do with hairstyle.

It was the poster talking about the their son who said hairstyle was one of the first things they did, before medical intervention. To me, that suggests that to their kid, hairstyle was a big part of this. Hairstyle and fashion. How could it be otherwise? What does someone barely in puberty actually *know* about being either gender as an adult?

It's my opinion, not a lot.

I have so many gay friends who would probably be considered trans kids if they were growing up today. And yet, being gay, loving the bodies they're in and being attracted to bodies like theirs... That's a huge part of it.

You say this isn't about appearance, or genitals, but then you're actually medicalizing kids to make it all about those things.

I would be thrilled if gender truly didn't matter. But what I see going on here is a codifying and defining of cosmetic gender attributes that would make a 50s nuclear family look like swingers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is trans. When I told people, it was just to share information. I had a support system to vent to and share feelings with while he transitioned. I mostly told people so they wouldn't be lost when I said my son instead of my daughter, and so they could use his new name if they saw him. The best responses were along the lines of "thanks for letting me know. Please correct me if I mess up and use the wrong name or pronoun." I could tell it was awkward for some people to ask questions, but I was happy to answer any questions about the transition process. Many people don't know (or don't know they know) trans people, don't really think about it until someone they know transitions, and don't really know what resources are available to learn about it.

One of my dearest friends and my kid's friends become trans a few years ago. I have been openly supportive and I genuinely love the kid and the family, but let's also be clear: it's their experience that has radicalized me against children transitioning.

I wouldn't share that with the family. But the rapidity with which that kid was put on blockers, cross sex hormones at 15.... And the change in them.... I've seen a kid go from being fairly happy go lucky go withdrawn, depressed, anorexic, and completely obsessed with their appearance and presentation.

You might say that's just being a teen and perhaps it is. But the difference between my kid and their friend is astonishing... And my kid isn't popular or gender conforming. They just don't give a damn.

You probably don’t know all the details. I mean, I’m sure you think you do, but there’s no way you can. I’m sure some people thought we moved too quickly, but they don’t know about the years of therapy for anxiety and depression before coming out, then the year+ of therapy with a gender specialist before we did anything beyond changing hair and wardrobe. We researched everything, every step, and discussed the options with our child before coming to decisions and carrying them out. We didn’t advertise to friends and family, so I’m sure changes seemed sudden.

I think it’s unfair that you’re comparing their child to yours. It sounds like two different situations, plus they’re entirely different people with different personalities. The question is, are they happier now than if treatment had been withheld. You can’t know that, but the parents and child probably have a decent idea. My son still has anxiety and depression. The pandemic made that worse. He seems much less happy, not to mention happy go lucky, than his peers. But I don’t think I’d still have a living child if he hadn’t transitioned.

And one reason many trans people put so much consideration into their appearance is they’re judged so harshly for it.

I'm sorry for your family's struggle. It's not uncommon and it is unfortunate, and I'd agree, the pandemic didn't help.

However, you aren't my friend or their family, and I do know for a fact their child didn't have much oversight.

My child probably has shorter hair than yours. We just don't consider it to be something that has to do with their gender.

The fact that you’re suggesting trans kids are basing gender identity on their hairstyle says a lot about you. The only people I know who make comments about someone’s gender based on their hairstyles are ultra conservatives who make fun of guys who have hair past their collars and call them sissies and who call girls with short hair all sorts of names. My son is trans whether he has short or long hair. His hair is long right now, as a matter of fact. I’m sure your child’s hair is more about their preferences, personality, style, facial structure, and probably a lot of other personal choices rather than gender.

Also, I’m not sure why your friends choices make you opposed to all children transitioning. Just because they chose not to educate themselves about the process doesn’t mean everyone plays fast and loose with medical decisions for their kids. Decisions like that should be between the families and their doctors, not legislators, just like women’s health and treatment should be private and not decided by people who’ve never dealt with the issues first hand.

I wasn't saying it has anything to do with hairstyle.

It was the poster talking about the their son who said hairstyle was one of the first things they did, before medical intervention. To me, that suggests that to their kid, hairstyle was a big part of this. Hairstyle and fashion. How could it be otherwise? What does someone barely in puberty actually *know* about being either gender as an adult?

It's my opinion, not a lot.

I have so many gay friends who would probably be considered trans kids if they were growing up today. And yet, being gay, loving the bodies they're in and being attracted to bodies like theirs... That's a huge part of it.

You say this isn't about appearance, or genitals, but then you're actually medicalizing kids to make it all about those things.

I would be thrilled if gender truly didn't matter. But what I see going on here is a codifying and defining of cosmetic gender attributes that would make a 50s nuclear family look like swingers.

Different pp. Trans adult here. I knew since I was a young child even though I didn't have the words to describe that I was transgender. My sexuality is unrelated to being transgender. I'm bisexual. I had sex with men and women prior to transition. I'm still attracted to and have sex dreams about men and women. The sexual orientation part didn't hit me until puberty but I knew I was trans from a very young age. No cis person, gay or straight, should ever transition and I've never heard of a gay person being pushed to transition. That would defeat the purpose of transition and give a cis person gender dysphoria. No trans person would ever want someone else to have that. The only people that should transition are those that are transgender and wish to and are ready to transition. No one should ever be pushed into transition. In my experience though, most transgender people do want to transition but it's actually a lot harder to get the courage to do it than you might believe. Especially if you're later in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is trans. When I told people, it was just to share information. I had a support system to vent to and share feelings with while he transitioned. I mostly told people so they wouldn't be lost when I said my son instead of my daughter, and so they could use his new name if they saw him. The best responses were along the lines of "thanks for letting me know. Please correct me if I mess up and use the wrong name or pronoun." I could tell it was awkward for some people to ask questions, but I was happy to answer any questions about the transition process. Many people don't know (or don't know they know) trans people, don't really think about it until someone they know transitions, and don't really know what resources are available to learn about it.

One of my dearest friends and my kid's friends become trans a few years ago. I have been openly supportive and I genuinely love the kid and the family, but let's also be clear: it's their experience that has radicalized me against children transitioning.

I wouldn't share that with the family. But the rapidity with which that kid was put on blockers, cross sex hormones at 15.... And the change in them.... I've seen a kid go from being fairly happy go lucky go withdrawn, depressed, anorexic, and completely obsessed with their appearance and presentation.

You might say that's just being a teen and perhaps it is. But the difference between my kid and their friend is astonishing... And my kid isn't popular or gender conforming. They just don't give a damn.

You probably don’t know all the details. I mean, I’m sure you think you do, but there’s no way you can. I’m sure some people thought we moved too quickly, but they don’t know about the years of therapy for anxiety and depression before coming out, then the year+ of therapy with a gender specialist before we did anything beyond changing hair and wardrobe. We researched everything, every step, and discussed the options with our child before coming to decisions and carrying them out. We didn’t advertise to friends and family, so I’m sure changes seemed sudden.

I think it’s unfair that you’re comparing their child to yours. It sounds like two different situations, plus they’re entirely different people with different personalities. The question is, are they happier now than if treatment had been withheld. You can’t know that, but the parents and child probably have a decent idea. My son still has anxiety and depression. The pandemic made that worse. He seems much less happy, not to mention happy go lucky, than his peers. But I don’t think I’d still have a living child if he hadn’t transitioned.

And one reason many trans people put so much consideration into their appearance is they’re judged so harshly for it.

I'm sorry for your family's struggle. It's not uncommon and it is unfortunate, and I'd agree, the pandemic didn't help.

However, you aren't my friend or their family, and I do know for a fact their child didn't have much oversight.

My child probably has shorter hair than yours. We just don't consider it to be something that has to do with their gender.

The fact that you’re suggesting trans kids are basing gender identity on their hairstyle says a lot about you. The only people I know who make comments about someone’s gender based on their hairstyles are ultra conservatives who make fun of guys who have hair past their collars and call them sissies and who call girls with short hair all sorts of names. My son is trans whether he has short or long hair. His hair is long right now, as a matter of fact. I’m sure your child’s hair is more about their preferences, personality, style, facial structure, and probably a lot of other personal choices rather than gender.

Also, I’m not sure why your friends choices make you opposed to all children transitioning. Just because they chose not to educate themselves about the process doesn’t mean everyone plays fast and loose with medical decisions for their kids. Decisions like that should be between the families and their doctors, not legislators, just like women’s health and treatment should be private and not decided by people who’ve never dealt with the issues first hand.

I wasn't saying it has anything to do with hairstyle.

It was the poster talking about the their son who said hairstyle was one of the first things they did, before medical intervention. To me, that suggests that to their kid, hairstyle was a big part of this. Hairstyle and fashion. How could it be otherwise? What does someone barely in puberty actually *know* about being either gender as an adult?

It's my opinion, not a lot.

I have so many gay friends who would probably be considered trans kids if they were growing up today. And yet, being gay, loving the bodies they're in and being attracted to bodies like theirs... That's a huge part of it.

You say this isn't about appearance, or genitals, but then you're actually medicalizing kids to make it all about those things.

I would be thrilled if gender truly didn't matter. But what I see going on here is a codifying and defining of cosmetic gender attributes that would make a 50s nuclear family look like swingers.

Different pp. Trans adult here. I knew since I was a young child even though I didn't have the words to describe that I was transgender. My sexuality is unrelated to being transgender. I'm bisexual. I had sex with men and women prior to transition. I'm still attracted to and have sex dreams about men and women. The sexual orientation part didn't hit me until puberty but I knew I was trans from a very young age. No cis person, gay or straight, should ever transition and I've never heard of a gay person being pushed to transition. That would defeat the purpose of transition and give a cis person gender dysphoria. No trans person would ever want someone else to have that. The only people that should transition are those that are transgender and wish to and are ready to transition. No one should ever be pushed into transition. In my experience though, most transgender people do want to transition but it's actually a lot harder to get the courage to do it than you might believe. Especially if you're later in life.

Dp. Thank you for your perspective. The last bit, though....tween and teen brains aren't fully developed. Critical brain development happens into the early 20's. Teens are impulsive and, imo, should never be allowed to make the decision to stop or alter their hormones, especially if there isn't a long history (starting very young, preschool age) of feeling you are the opposite gender.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is trans. When I told people, it was just to share information. I had a support system to vent to and share feelings with while he transitioned. I mostly told people so they wouldn't be lost when I said my son instead of my daughter, and so they could use his new name if they saw him. The best responses were along the lines of "thanks for letting me know. Please correct me if I mess up and use the wrong name or pronoun." I could tell it was awkward for some people to ask questions, but I was happy to answer any questions about the transition process. Many people don't know (or don't know they know) trans people, don't really think about it until someone they know transitions, and don't really know what resources are available to learn about it.

One of my dearest friends and my kid's friends become trans a few years ago. I have been openly supportive and I genuinely love the kid and the family, but let's also be clear: it's their experience that has radicalized me against children transitioning.

I wouldn't share that with the family. But the rapidity with which that kid was put on blockers, cross sex hormones at 15.... And the change in them.... I've seen a kid go from being fairly happy go lucky go withdrawn, depressed, anorexic, and completely obsessed with their appearance and presentation.

You might say that's just being a teen and perhaps it is. But the difference between my kid and their friend is astonishing... And my kid isn't popular or gender conforming. They just don't give a damn.

You probably don’t know all the details. I mean, I’m sure you think you do, but there’s no way you can. I’m sure some people thought we moved too quickly, but they don’t know about the years of therapy for anxiety and depression before coming out, then the year+ of therapy with a gender specialist before we did anything beyond changing hair and wardrobe. We researched everything, every step, and discussed the options with our child before coming to decisions and carrying them out. We didn’t advertise to friends and family, so I’m sure changes seemed sudden.

I think it’s unfair that you’re comparing their child to yours. It sounds like two different situations, plus they’re entirely different people with different personalities. The question is, are they happier now than if treatment had been withheld. You can’t know that, but the parents and child probably have a decent idea. My son still has anxiety and depression. The pandemic made that worse. He seems much less happy, not to mention happy go lucky, than his peers. But I don’t think I’d still have a living child if he hadn’t transitioned.

And one reason many trans people put so much consideration into their appearance is they’re judged so harshly for it.

I'm sorry for your family's struggle. It's not uncommon and it is unfortunate, and I'd agree, the pandemic didn't help.

However, you aren't my friend or their family, and I do know for a fact their child didn't have much oversight.

My child probably has shorter hair than yours. We just don't consider it to be something that has to do with their gender.

The fact that you’re suggesting trans kids are basing gender identity on their hairstyle says a lot about you. The only people I know who make comments about someone’s gender based on their hairstyles are ultra conservatives who make fun of guys who have hair past their collars and call them sissies and who call girls with short hair all sorts of names. My son is trans whether he has short or long hair. His hair is long right now, as a matter of fact. I’m sure your child’s hair is more about their preferences, personality, style, facial structure, and probably a lot of other personal choices rather than gender.

Also, I’m not sure why your friends choices make you opposed to all children transitioning. Just because they chose not to educate themselves about the process doesn’t mean everyone plays fast and loose with medical decisions for their kids. Decisions like that should be between the families and their doctors, not legislators, just like women’s health and treatment should be private and not decided by people who’ve never dealt with the issues first hand.

I wasn't saying it has anything to do with hairstyle.

It was the poster talking about the their son who said hairstyle was one of the first things they did, before medical intervention. To me, that suggests that to their kid, hairstyle was a big part of this. Hairstyle and fashion. How could it be otherwise? What does someone barely in puberty actually *know* about being either gender as an adult?

It's my opinion, not a lot.

I have so many gay friends who would probably be considered trans kids if they were growing up today. And yet, being gay, loving the bodies they're in and being attracted to bodies like theirs... That's a huge part of it.

You say this isn't about appearance, or genitals, but then you're actually medicalizing kids to make it all about those things.

I would be thrilled if gender truly didn't matter. But what I see going on here is a codifying and defining of cosmetic gender attributes that would make a 50s nuclear family look like swingers.

Different pp. Trans adult here. I knew since I was a young child even though I didn't have the words to describe that I was transgender. My sexuality is unrelated to being transgender. I'm bisexual. I had sex with men and women prior to transition. I'm still attracted to and have sex dreams about men and women. The sexual orientation part didn't hit me until puberty but I knew I was trans from a very young age. No cis person, gay or straight, should ever transition and I've never heard of a gay person being pushed to transition. That would defeat the purpose of transition and give a cis person gender dysphoria. No trans person would ever want someone else to have that. The only people that should transition are those that are transgender and wish to and are ready to transition. No one should ever be pushed into transition. In my experience though, most transgender people do want to transition but it's actually a lot harder to get the courage to do it than you might believe. Especially if you're later in life.

Op from above: thank you for sharing your story. I know people like you too. I believe you. In my opinion, the focus should be on making it easier for adults to make the journey and to welcome those who do.

Fwiw, I dated a bisexual guy for most of my twenties, one who probably would have transitioned as a child based on today's criteria. I slept with a lot of women before I determined I'm straight. I completely believe gender is fluid, and that a lot of the toxic stuff going on in our society with it has to do with our society. I always have.

But when some of us express concern about the trend where so many of our daughters seem to be deciding that they are men and taking permanent steps to become men, we are doing so because their narratives aren't like your story. And, perhaps because a lot of us remember being teens ourselves. There is a specific and common toxicity that comes with puberty. Our culture does a lot to make it worse.

I think medicalizing puberty is one of those things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is trans. When I told people, it was just to share information. I had a support system to vent to and share feelings with while he transitioned. I mostly told people so they wouldn't be lost when I said my son instead of my daughter, and so they could use his new name if they saw him. The best responses were along the lines of "thanks for letting me know. Please correct me if I mess up and use the wrong name or pronoun." I could tell it was awkward for some people to ask questions, but I was happy to answer any questions about the transition process. Many people don't know (or don't know they know) trans people, don't really think about it until someone they know transitions, and don't really know what resources are available to learn about it.

One of my dearest friends and my kid's friends become trans a few years ago. I have been openly supportive and I genuinely love the kid and the family, but let's also be clear: it's their experience that has radicalized me against children transitioning.

I wouldn't share that with the family. But the rapidity with which that kid was put on blockers, cross sex hormones at 15.... And the change in them.... I've seen a kid go from being fairly happy go lucky go withdrawn, depressed, anorexic, and completely obsessed with their appearance and presentation.

You might say that's just being a teen and perhaps it is. But the difference between my kid and their friend is astonishing... And my kid isn't popular or gender conforming. They just don't give a damn.

You probably don’t know all the details. I mean, I’m sure you think you do, but there’s no way you can. I’m sure some people thought we moved too quickly, but they don’t know about the years of therapy for anxiety and depression before coming out, then the year+ of therapy with a gender specialist before we did anything beyond changing hair and wardrobe. We researched everything, every step, and discussed the options with our child before coming to decisions and carrying them out. We didn’t advertise to friends and family, so I’m sure changes seemed sudden.

I think it’s unfair that you’re comparing their child to yours. It sounds like two different situations, plus they’re entirely different people with different personalities. The question is, are they happier now than if treatment had been withheld. You can’t know that, but the parents and child probably have a decent idea. My son still has anxiety and depression. The pandemic made that worse. He seems much less happy, not to mention happy go lucky, than his peers. But I don’t think I’d still have a living child if he hadn’t transitioned.

And one reason many trans people put so much consideration into their appearance is they’re judged so harshly for it.

I'm sorry for your family's struggle. It's not uncommon and it is unfortunate, and I'd agree, the pandemic didn't help.

However, you aren't my friend or their family, and I do know for a fact their child didn't have much oversight.

My child probably has shorter hair than yours. We just don't consider it to be something that has to do with their gender.

The fact that you’re suggesting trans kids are basing gender identity on their hairstyle says a lot about you. The only people I know who make comments about someone’s gender based on their hairstyles are ultra conservatives who make fun of guys who have hair past their collars and call them sissies and who call girls with short hair all sorts of names. My son is trans whether he has short or long hair. His hair is long right now, as a matter of fact. I’m sure your child’s hair is more about their preferences, personality, style, facial structure, and probably a lot of other personal choices rather than gender.

Also, I’m not sure why your friends choices make you opposed to all children transitioning. Just because they chose not to educate themselves about the process doesn’t mean everyone plays fast and loose with medical decisions for their kids. Decisions like that should be between the families and their doctors, not legislators, just like women’s health and treatment should be private and not decided by people who’ve never dealt with the issues first hand.

I wasn't saying it has anything to do with hairstyle.

It was the poster talking about the their son who said hairstyle was one of the first things they did, before medical intervention. To me, that suggests that to their kid, hairstyle was a big part of this. Hairstyle and fashion. How could it be otherwise? What does someone barely in puberty actually *know* about being either gender as an adult?

It's my opinion, not a lot.

I have so many gay friends who would probably be considered trans kids if they were growing up today. And yet, being gay, loving the bodies they're in and being attracted to bodies like theirs... That's a huge part of it.

You say this isn't about appearance, or genitals, but then you're actually medicalizing kids to make it all about those things.

I would be thrilled if gender truly didn't matter. But what I see going on here is a codifying and defining of cosmetic gender attributes that would make a 50s nuclear family look like swingers.

Different pp. Trans adult here. I knew since I was a young child even though I didn't have the words to describe that I was transgender. My sexuality is unrelated to being transgender. I'm bisexual. I had sex with men and women prior to transition. I'm still attracted to and have sex dreams about men and women. The sexual orientation part didn't hit me until puberty but I knew I was trans from a very young age. No cis person, gay or straight, should ever transition and I've never heard of a gay person being pushed to transition. That would defeat the purpose of transition and give a cis person gender dysphoria. No trans person would ever want someone else to have that. The only people that should transition are those that are transgender and wish to and are ready to transition. No one should ever be pushed into transition. In my experience though, most transgender people do want to transition but it's actually a lot harder to get the courage to do it than you might believe. Especially if you're later in life.

Dp. Thank you for your perspective. The last bit, though....tween and teen brains aren't fully developed. Critical brain development happens into the early 20's. Teens are impulsive and, imo, should never be allowed to make the decision to stop or alter their hormones, especially if there isn't a long history (starting very young, preschool age) of feeling you are the opposite gender.

How many trans people have you spoken to about this subject? Do you know anyone personally (not a friend's auntie's neighbor's friend from facebook) who transitioned without a long history of feeling like they're a different gender? Most trans people have known for a while, even if they didn't have the labels. Most people keep those feeling private, because there's a lot of judgment out there. Many transition as privately as possible, because it's a lot to deal with emotionally, and they don't need random people giving opinions about their medical treatment. Just because they didn't share with you that they felt like their insides didn't match their outsides since they were children doesn't mean those feelings weren't there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is trans. When I told people, it was just to share information. I had a support system to vent to and share feelings with while he transitioned. I mostly told people so they wouldn't be lost when I said my son instead of my daughter, and so they could use his new name if they saw him. The best responses were along the lines of "thanks for letting me know. Please correct me if I mess up and use the wrong name or pronoun." I could tell it was awkward for some people to ask questions, but I was happy to answer any questions about the transition process. Many people don't know (or don't know they know) trans people, don't really think about it until someone they know transitions, and don't really know what resources are available to learn about it.

One of my dearest friends and my kid's friends become trans a few years ago. I have been openly supportive and I genuinely love the kid and the family, but let's also be clear: it's their experience that has radicalized me against children transitioning.

I wouldn't share that with the family. But the rapidity with which that kid was put on blockers, cross sex hormones at 15.... And the change in them.... I've seen a kid go from being fairly happy go lucky go withdrawn, depressed, anorexic, and completely obsessed with their appearance and presentation.

You might say that's just being a teen and perhaps it is. But the difference between my kid and their friend is astonishing... And my kid isn't popular or gender conforming. They just don't give a damn.

You probably don’t know all the details. I mean, I’m sure you think you do, but there’s no way you can. I’m sure some people thought we moved too quickly, but they don’t know about the years of therapy for anxiety and depression before coming out, then the year+ of therapy with a gender specialist before we did anything beyond changing hair and wardrobe. We researched everything, every step, and discussed the options with our child before coming to decisions and carrying them out. We didn’t advertise to friends and family, so I’m sure changes seemed sudden.

I think it’s unfair that you’re comparing their child to yours. It sounds like two different situations, plus they’re entirely different people with different personalities. The question is, are they happier now than if treatment had been withheld. You can’t know that, but the parents and child probably have a decent idea. My son still has anxiety and depression. The pandemic made that worse. He seems much less happy, not to mention happy go lucky, than his peers. But I don’t think I’d still have a living child if he hadn’t transitioned.

And one reason many trans people put so much consideration into their appearance is they’re judged so harshly for it.

I'm sorry for your family's struggle. It's not uncommon and it is unfortunate, and I'd agree, the pandemic didn't help.

However, you aren't my friend or their family, and I do know for a fact their child didn't have much oversight.

My child probably has shorter hair than yours. We just don't consider it to be something that has to do with their gender.

The fact that you’re suggesting trans kids are basing gender identity on their hairstyle says a lot about you. The only people I know who make comments about someone’s gender based on their hairstyles are ultra conservatives who make fun of guys who have hair past their collars and call them sissies and who call girls with short hair all sorts of names. My son is trans whether he has short or long hair. His hair is long right now, as a matter of fact. I’m sure your child’s hair is more about their preferences, personality, style, facial structure, and probably a lot of other personal choices rather than gender.

Also, I’m not sure why your friends choices make you opposed to all children transitioning. Just because they chose not to educate themselves about the process doesn’t mean everyone plays fast and loose with medical decisions for their kids. Decisions like that should be between the families and their doctors, not legislators, just like women’s health and treatment should be private and not decided by people who’ve never dealt with the issues first hand.

I wasn't saying it has anything to do with hairstyle.

It was the poster talking about the their son who said hairstyle was one of the first things they did, before medical intervention. To me, that suggests that to their kid, hairstyle was a big part of this. Hairstyle and fashion. How could it be otherwise? What does someone barely in puberty actually *know* about being either gender as an adult?

It's my opinion, not a lot.

I have so many gay friends who would probably be considered trans kids if they were growing up today. And yet, being gay, loving the bodies they're in and being attracted to bodies like theirs... That's a huge part of it.

You say this isn't about appearance, or genitals, but then you're actually medicalizing kids to make it all about those things.

I would be thrilled if gender truly didn't matter. But what I see going on here is a codifying and defining of cosmetic gender attributes that would make a 50s nuclear family look like swingers.

You need to educate yourself a bit more. I'm the PP with a trans son. You suggested that I didn't learn about treatments before treating my child. You also threw around a lot of info about my child's age/puberty progress at the time of treatment that didn't come from my post or from reality. You're making up "facts" based on your limited information based on your perception of how one family handled a private medical decision and trying to discourage others from choosing to transition. You also misgendered my child. It's strange to me that you'd do that, and either means you're more ignorant on this subject than I realized (leading me back to the idea that you don't know as much as you think you know about your friend's child's journey, because using someone's preferred pronouns is very basic) or you're just mean spirited and disrespectful.

I brought up hairstyle and wardrobe because they're the outward parts of transitioning that people see and notice. Our society embraces gender stereotypes, so people notice when someone changes their hair and wardrobe.

At least you're honest in your previous post when you said you're radicalized against transitioning. That's clear. Thanks for being honest about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is trans. When I told people, it was just to share information. I had a support system to vent to and share feelings with while he transitioned. I mostly told people so they wouldn't be lost when I said my son instead of my daughter, and so they could use his new name if they saw him. The best responses were along the lines of "thanks for letting me know. Please correct me if I mess up and use the wrong name or pronoun." I could tell it was awkward for some people to ask questions, but I was happy to answer any questions about the transition process. Many people don't know (or don't know they know) trans people, don't really think about it until someone they know transitions, and don't really know what resources are available to learn about it.

One of my dearest friends and my kid's friends become trans a few years ago. I have been openly supportive and I genuinely love the kid and the family, but let's also be clear: it's their experience that has radicalized me against children transitioning.

I wouldn't share that with the family. But the rapidity with which that kid was put on blockers, cross sex hormones at 15.... And the change in them.... I've seen a kid go from being fairly happy go lucky go withdrawn, depressed, anorexic, and completely obsessed with their appearance and presentation.

You might say that's just being a teen and perhaps it is. But the difference between my kid and their friend is astonishing... And my kid isn't popular or gender conforming. They just don't give a damn.

You probably don’t know all the details. I mean, I’m sure you think you do, but there’s no way you can. I’m sure some people thought we moved too quickly, but they don’t know about the years of therapy for anxiety and depression before coming out, then the year+ of therapy with a gender specialist before we did anything beyond changing hair and wardrobe. We researched everything, every step, and discussed the options with our child before coming to decisions and carrying them out. We didn’t advertise to friends and family, so I’m sure changes seemed sudden.

I think it’s unfair that you’re comparing their child to yours. It sounds like two different situations, plus they’re entirely different people with different personalities. The question is, are they happier now than if treatment had been withheld. You can’t know that, but the parents and child probably have a decent idea. My son still has anxiety and depression. The pandemic made that worse. He seems much less happy, not to mention happy go lucky, than his peers. But I don’t think I’d still have a living child if he hadn’t transitioned.

And one reason many trans people put so much consideration into their appearance is they’re judged so harshly for it.

I'm sorry for your family's struggle. It's not uncommon and it is unfortunate, and I'd agree, the pandemic didn't help.

However, you aren't my friend or their family, and I do know for a fact their child didn't have much oversight.

My child probably has shorter hair than yours. We just don't consider it to be something that has to do with their gender.

The fact that you’re suggesting trans kids are basing gender identity on their hairstyle says a lot about you. The only people I know who make comments about someone’s gender based on their hairstyles are ultra conservatives who make fun of guys who have hair past their collars and call them sissies and who call girls with short hair all sorts of names. My son is trans whether he has short or long hair. His hair is long right now, as a matter of fact. I’m sure your child’s hair is more about their preferences, personality, style, facial structure, and probably a lot of other personal choices rather than gender.

Also, I’m not sure why your friends choices make you opposed to all children transitioning. Just because they chose not to educate themselves about the process doesn’t mean everyone plays fast and loose with medical decisions for their kids. Decisions like that should be between the families and their doctors, not legislators, just like women’s health and treatment should be private and not decided by people who’ve never dealt with the issues first hand.

I wasn't saying it has anything to do with hairstyle.

It was the poster talking about the their son who said hairstyle was one of the first things they did, before medical intervention. To me, that suggests that to their kid, hairstyle was a big part of this. Hairstyle and fashion. How could it be otherwise? What does someone barely in puberty actually *know* about being either gender as an adult?

It's my opinion, not a lot.

I have so many gay friends who would probably be considered trans kids if they were growing up today. And yet, being gay, loving the bodies they're in and being attracted to bodies like theirs... That's a huge part of it.

You say this isn't about appearance, or genitals, but then you're actually medicalizing kids to make it all about those things.

I would be thrilled if gender truly didn't matter. But what I see going on here is a codifying and defining of cosmetic gender attributes that would make a 50s nuclear family look like swingers.

Different pp. Trans adult here. I knew since I was a young child even though I didn't have the words to describe that I was transgender. My sexuality is unrelated to being transgender. I'm bisexual. I had sex with men and women prior to transition. I'm still attracted to and have sex dreams about men and women. The sexual orientation part didn't hit me until puberty but I knew I was trans from a very young age. No cis person, gay or straight, should ever transition and I've never heard of a gay person being pushed to transition. That would defeat the purpose of transition and give a cis person gender dysphoria. No trans person would ever want someone else to have that. The only people that should transition are those that are transgender and wish to and are ready to transition. No one should ever be pushed into transition. In my experience though, most transgender people do want to transition but it's actually a lot harder to get the courage to do it than you might believe. Especially if you're later in life.

Dp. Thank you for your perspective. The last bit, though....tween and teen brains aren't fully developed. Critical brain development happens into the early 20's. Teens are impulsive and, imo, should never be allowed to make the decision to stop or alter their hormones, especially if there isn't a long history (starting very young, preschool age) of feeling you are the opposite gender.

How many trans people have you spoken to about this subject? Do you know anyone personally (not a friend's auntie's neighbor's friend from facebook) who transitioned without a long history of feeling like they're a different gender? Most trans people have known for a while, even if they didn't have the labels. Most people keep those feeling private, because there's a lot of judgment out there. Many transition as privately as possible, because it's a lot to deal with emotionally, and they don't need random people giving opinions about their medical treatment. Just because they didn't share with you that they felt like their insides didn't match their outsides since they were children doesn't mean those feelings weren't there.

This comes from the parent's perspective. Young children have no filter. There are signs the attentive parent would notice. If my preschooler said "I'm a girl, not a boy" or sone other thing which we've all heard about (Jazz Jennings), I'd give that more credence than my tween who never showed signs of gender dysphoria or questioning all-of-a-sudden declaring they are trans. Especially with the gender fluidity "explosion" in the young populace of late.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is trans. When I told people, it was just to share information. I had a support system to vent to and share feelings with while he transitioned. I mostly told people so they wouldn't be lost when I said my son instead of my daughter, and so they could use his new name if they saw him. The best responses were along the lines of "thanks for letting me know. Please correct me if I mess up and use the wrong name or pronoun." I could tell it was awkward for some people to ask questions, but I was happy to answer any questions about the transition process. Many people don't know (or don't know they know) trans people, don't really think about it until someone they know transitions, and don't really know what resources are available to learn about it.

One of my dearest friends and my kid's friends become trans a few years ago. I have been openly supportive and I genuinely love the kid and the family, but let's also be clear: it's their experience that has radicalized me against children transitioning.

I wouldn't share that with the family. But the rapidity with which that kid was put on blockers, cross sex hormones at 15.... And the change in them.... I've seen a kid go from being fairly happy go lucky go withdrawn, depressed, anorexic, and completely obsessed with their appearance and presentation.

You might say that's just being a teen and perhaps it is. But the difference between my kid and their friend is astonishing... And my kid isn't popular or gender conforming. They just don't give a damn.

You probably don’t know all the details. I mean, I’m sure you think you do, but there’s no way you can. I’m sure some people thought we moved too quickly, but they don’t know about the years of therapy for anxiety and depression before coming out, then the year+ of therapy with a gender specialist before we did anything beyond changing hair and wardrobe. We researched everything, every step, and discussed the options with our child before coming to decisions and carrying them out. We didn’t advertise to friends and family, so I’m sure changes seemed sudden.

I think it’s unfair that you’re comparing their child to yours. It sounds like two different situations, plus they’re entirely different people with different personalities. The question is, are they happier now than if treatment had been withheld. You can’t know that, but the parents and child probably have a decent idea. My son still has anxiety and depression. The pandemic made that worse. He seems much less happy, not to mention happy go lucky, than his peers. But I don’t think I’d still have a living child if he hadn’t transitioned.

And one reason many trans people put so much consideration into their appearance is they’re judged so harshly for it.

I'm sorry for your family's struggle. It's not uncommon and it is unfortunate, and I'd agree, the pandemic didn't help.

However, you aren't my friend or their family, and I do know for a fact their child didn't have much oversight.

My child probably has shorter hair than yours. We just don't consider it to be something that has to do with their gender.

The fact that you’re suggesting trans kids are basing gender identity on their hairstyle says a lot about you. The only people I know who make comments about someone’s gender based on their hairstyles are ultra conservatives who make fun of guys who have hair past their collars and call them sissies and who call girls with short hair all sorts of names. My son is trans whether he has short or long hair. His hair is long right now, as a matter of fact. I’m sure your child’s hair is more about their preferences, personality, style, facial structure, and probably a lot of other personal choices rather than gender.

Also, I’m not sure why your friends choices make you opposed to all children transitioning. Just because they chose not to educate themselves about the process doesn’t mean everyone plays fast and loose with medical decisions for their kids. Decisions like that should be between the families and their doctors, not legislators, just like women’s health and treatment should be private and not decided by people who’ve never dealt with the issues first hand.

I wasn't saying it has anything to do with hairstyle.

It was the poster talking about the their son who said hairstyle was one of the first things they did, before medical intervention. To me, that suggests that to their kid, hairstyle was a big part of this. Hairstyle and fashion. How could it be otherwise? What does someone barely in puberty actually *know* about being either gender as an adult?

It's my opinion, not a lot.

I have so many gay friends who would probably be considered trans kids if they were growing up today. And yet, being gay, loving the bodies they're in and being attracted to bodies like theirs... That's a huge part of it.

You say this isn't about appearance, or genitals, but then you're actually medicalizing kids to make it all about those things.

I would be thrilled if gender truly didn't matter. But what I see going on here is a codifying and defining of cosmetic gender attributes that would make a 50s nuclear family look like swingers.

Different pp. Trans adult here. I knew since I was a young child even though I didn't have the words to describe that I was transgender. My sexuality is unrelated to being transgender. I'm bisexual. I had sex with men and women prior to transition. I'm still attracted to and have sex dreams about men and women. The sexual orientation part didn't hit me until puberty but I knew I was trans from a very young age. No cis person, gay or straight, should ever transition and I've never heard of a gay person being pushed to transition. That would defeat the purpose of transition and give a cis person gender dysphoria. No trans person would ever want someone else to have that. The only people that should transition are those that are transgender and wish to and are ready to transition. No one should ever be pushed into transition. In my experience though, most transgender people do want to transition but it's actually a lot harder to get the courage to do it than you might believe. Especially if you're later in life.

Dp. Thank you for your perspective. The last bit, though....tween and teen brains aren't fully developed. Critical brain development happens into the early 20's. Teens are impulsive and, imo, should never be allowed to make the decision to stop or alter their hormones, especially if there isn't a long history (starting very young, preschool age) of feeling you are the opposite gender.

How many trans people have you spoken to about this subject? Do you know anyone personally (not a friend's auntie's neighbor's friend from facebook) who transitioned without a long history of feeling like they're a different gender? Most trans people have known for a while, even if they didn't have the labels. Most people keep those feeling private, because there's a lot of judgment out there. Many transition as privately as possible, because it's a lot to deal with emotionally, and they don't need random people giving opinions about their medical treatment. Just because they didn't share with you that they felt like their insides didn't match their outsides since they were children doesn't mean those feelings weren't there.

This comes from the parent's perspective. Young children have no filter. There are signs the attentive parent would notice. If my preschooler said "I'm a girl, not a boy" or sone other thing which we've all heard about (Jazz Jennings), I'd give that more credence than my tween who never showed signs of gender dysphoria or questioning all-of-a-sudden declaring they are trans. Especially with the gender fluidity "explosion" in the young populace of late.

So when people start talking about transgender issues, you think of tween girls trying on different identities trying to figure out who they are? That's your standard?

DS came out after going through puberty. He was a teen, but this wasn't a whim. I never would've guessed he was trans. I wouldn't have guessed it because it's not sometime I was very familiar with rather than I wasn't observant or he didn't give clues or he hadn't been feeling that way for a long time. It's just not the most common thing and I wasn't experienced with trans issues in a personal way. After he told me, my first thought was "this makes so much sense." He never said he was a boy, he wore dresses and played princess when he was little. But there was always an element of discomfort at certain gender expectations, something I can't put my finger on that just never felt quite right until he transitioned. He's more comfortable, and it just feels natural. Even though he never gave indications that he was trans before coming out abruptly, he'd been feeling it for a long time.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My son is trans. When I told people, it was just to share information. I had a support system to vent to and share feelings with while he transitioned. I mostly told people so they wouldn't be lost when I said my son instead of my daughter, and so they could use his new name if they saw him. The best responses were along the lines of "thanks for letting me know. Please correct me if I mess up and use the wrong name or pronoun." I could tell it was awkward for some people to ask questions, but I was happy to answer any questions about the transition process. Many people don't know (or don't know they know) trans people, don't really think about it until someone they know transitions, and don't really know what resources are available to learn about it.

One of my dearest friends and my kid's friends become trans a few years ago. I have been openly supportive and I genuinely love the kid and the family, but let's also be clear: it's their experience that has radicalized me against children transitioning.

I wouldn't share that with the family. But the rapidity with which that kid was put on blockers, cross sex hormones at 15.... And the change in them.... I've seen a kid go from being fairly happy go lucky go withdrawn, depressed, anorexic, and completely obsessed with their appearance and presentation.

You might say that's just being a teen and perhaps it is. But the difference between my kid and their friend is astonishing... And my kid isn't popular or gender conforming. They just don't give a damn.

You probably don’t know all the details. I mean, I’m sure you think you do, but there’s no way you can. I’m sure some people thought we moved too quickly, but they don’t know about the years of therapy for anxiety and depression before coming out, then the year+ of therapy with a gender specialist before we did anything beyond changing hair and wardrobe. We researched everything, every step, and discussed the options with our child before coming to decisions and carrying them out. We didn’t advertise to friends and family, so I’m sure changes seemed sudden.

I think it’s unfair that you’re comparing their child to yours. It sounds like two different situations, plus they’re entirely different people with different personalities. The question is, are they happier now than if treatment had been withheld. You can’t know that, but the parents and child probably have a decent idea. My son still has anxiety and depression. The pandemic made that worse. He seems much less happy, not to mention happy go lucky, than his peers. But I don’t think I’d still have a living child if he hadn’t transitioned.

And one reason many trans people put so much consideration into their appearance is they’re judged so harshly for it.

I'm sorry for your family's struggle. It's not uncommon and it is unfortunate, and I'd agree, the pandemic didn't help.

However, you aren't my friend or their family, and I do know for a fact their child didn't have much oversight.

My child probably has shorter hair than yours. We just don't consider it to be something that has to do with their gender.

The fact that you’re suggesting trans kids are basing gender identity on their hairstyle says a lot about you. The only people I know who make comments about someone’s gender based on their hairstyles are ultra conservatives who make fun of guys who have hair past their collars and call them sissies and who call girls with short hair all sorts of names. My son is trans whether he has short or long hair. His hair is long right now, as a matter of fact. I’m sure your child’s hair is more about their preferences, personality, style, facial structure, and probably a lot of other personal choices rather than gender.

Also, I’m not sure why your friends choices make you opposed to all children transitioning. Just because they chose not to educate themselves about the process doesn’t mean everyone plays fast and loose with medical decisions for their kids. Decisions like that should be between the families and their doctors, not legislators, just like women’s health and treatment should be private and not decided by people who’ve never dealt with the issues first hand.

I wasn't saying it has anything to do with hairstyle.

It was the poster talking about the their son who said hairstyle was one of the first things they did, before medical intervention. To me, that suggests that to their kid, hairstyle was a big part of this. Hairstyle and fashion. How could it be otherwise? What does someone barely in puberty actually *know* about being either gender as an adult?

It's my opinion, not a lot.

I have so many gay friends who would probably be considered trans kids if they were growing up today. And yet, being gay, loving the bodies they're in and being attracted to bodies like theirs... That's a huge part of it.

You say this isn't about appearance, or genitals, but then you're actually medicalizing kids to make it all about those things.

I would be thrilled if gender truly didn't matter. But what I see going on here is a codifying and defining of cosmetic gender attributes that would make a 50s nuclear family look like swingers.

You need to educate yourself a bit more. I'm the PP with a trans son. You suggested that I didn't learn about treatments before treating my child. You also threw around a lot of info about my child's age/puberty progress at the time of treatment that didn't come from my post or from reality. You're making up "facts" based on your limited information based on your perception of how one family handled a private medical decision and trying to discourage others from choosing to transition. You also misgendered my child. It's strange to me that you'd do that, and either means you're more ignorant on this subject than I realized (leading me back to the idea that you don't know as much as you think you know about your friend's child's journey, because using someone's preferred pronouns is very basic) or you're just mean spirited and disrespectful.

I brought up hairstyle and wardrobe because they're the outward parts of transitioning that people see and notice. Our society embraces gender stereotypes, so people notice when someone changes their hair and wardrobe.

At least you're honest in your previous post when you said you're radicalized against transitioning. That's clear. Thanks for being honest about that.

I wasn't referring to your son. Not everything is about him.

Except in that last paragraph where I specifically did refer to him and used the correct pronouns.

Please don't go through life looking to lecture people on pronouns. It will be dreary for you.

[Anonymous]

Re: preschoolers:

When my daughter was three and four she mixed pronouns constantly. She'd refer to me as he and her father as she. I don't know if other kids do that, but I'm assuming some do. She also likes trains. None of this had anything to do with her gender identity.

There was a kid in her PreK class who transitioned around age ten. We did all know that was going to happen. She's a great kid.

Had I been referring to your trans son, I wouldn't have brought up jazz Jennings, as those medical issues aren't ones he will have.