If you had a bad sleeper but didn’t sleep train…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did your baby/child’s sleep ever improve? Either naturally or with non-CIO methods? My baby is 7 months and our lives have completely fallen apart from lack of sleep. I’m too tired to detail all the problems and how bad it is. I don’t want to sleep train but feel we have exhausted everything else, so I’d like to hear only from those who didn’t sleep train and eventually saw improvement to see if realistically there is any hope.

Please do not suggest obvious things like white noise, styles of sleep sack, wake windows, solids, etc. we have Tried. It. All.

We tried sleep training and failed miserably. We hired a sleep consultant and she failed. DD would wake up several times a night to nurse. CIO was a total bust and, in retrospect, cruel because she would not settle or stop sobbing. So I gave up and tended to her whenever she cried.

Soon after she started sleeping 7:30 to 5:30 straight through. And that is where we are today at 18 months. One nap - 45 minutes to an hour. She’s just a short sleeper.

[Anonymous]

My babies weren’t bad sleepers they were just human babies! Without sleep training (meaning let your baby cry) both my babies were sleeping through the night (12 hours with one dreamfeed).

They are both great little sleepers now at 3 and 5. Both go to bed easily and happily and have no anxiety issues (which I think is tied to too young sleep training).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Never. He woke up at least once a night until like 8.

This is what happened at our house.

11. And she’s still a bad sleeper, just manages it alone now

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just ignoring the pro-sleeping training people for now. No energy to explain why I don’t want to. I appreciate your opinion.

We tried co-sleeping. It was even worse with baby seeking the breast all night, waking every 5-15 minutes and ending up hysterical with exhaustion by morning.

You do not want to sleep train. You do not even want to hear about it. You do not want to hear about so called obvious things to try. So what exactly do you want? All I can say is, your baby needs sleep and it is up to you to help provide her that.

What an annoying post. I stated exactly what I want; please re-read my OP. I am not asking for advice here because obviously I have already read lots of books, blog posts, etc and posted here and many other places, talked to people etc. I am already aware of sleep training, how, why, etc.

Why post? You want zero advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My babies weren’t bad sleepers they were just human babies! Without sleep training (meaning let your baby cry) both my babies were sleeping through the night (12 hours with one dreamfeed).

They are both great little sleepers now at 3 and 5. Both go to bed easily and happily and have no anxiety issues (which I think is tied to too young sleep training).

Lol. You have absolutely no idea at 3 and 5 if your kids will have anxiety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did your baby/child’s sleep ever improve? Either naturally or with non-CIO methods? My baby is 7 months and our lives have completely fallen apart from lack of sleep. I’m too tired to detail all the problems and how bad it is. I don’t want to sleep train but feel we have exhausted everything else, so I’d like to hear only from those who didn’t sleep train and eventually saw improvement to see if realistically there is any hope.

Please do not suggest obvious things like white noise, styles of sleep sack, wake windows, solids, etc. we have Tried. It. All.

Yes no matter what sleep trainers tell you, sleep is developmental. It isnt "taught". That means you could turn someone who needs 8 hours as an adult into someone who functions at 100% on 5 hours. They normal rely on weird requirements for overnight sleep or that a late bedtime is bad/negligent.

If you are discussing STTN its defined as 5-7 hours, not 10-12. If your baby is doing that then they are STTN. My son did not STTN until 2.5. He still wakes 1-3/week at 4 years old. If its before 2am we take him back to his bed. If its after 2am we let him in our bed. We have seen progress so it doesnt bother us. He has always been a more frequent sleeper vs consolidated sleeper. It wasnt until he went down to 1 nap that he started sleeping more than 5-6 hours and until he dropped his nap that he sleeps well overnight (think 7/8-630-8).

He did have lots of food issues until about 15 months, then started teething (late teether who didnt have 2 year molars until 3), etc.

I coslept until 2 years and then weaned at 2.5 (when he started sleeping longer periods at night on his own- my supply became nonexistent and I wasnt interested in continuing to build it back up and then have it drop again as interest waned, repeat, repeat).

Please visit https://evolutionaryparenting.com/test/bitss/ a website that provides a screening tool for possible issues that may be causing more frequent wakening. Ex- food intolerances, chronic ear infections, englarged adenoids, etc.

[Anonymous]

I think if you want to torture yourself this much you’ll just find something else when the sleep thing is over.

[Anonymous]

Not sure my story will help but I think we have similar perspectives, OP.

I wasn’t able to breastfeed and that guilt only strengthened my resolve to never sleep train. I also think being able to feed a full bottle of formula at bedtime made it easier to get long stretches. Both children technically slept through the night by 6-8 months. I devoted a huge amount of time to the bedtime and nap time routines (lots of bouncing and rocking, no evening babysitters, sunlight in the am, nightly bath with same massage oil, etc.) until they were about 2. Both are now great sleepers who rarely need support. We never bedshared but roomshared for several months with crib in our bedroom—I think that made the transition to independence easier.

There are times I’ve calculated the endless hours spent rocking and popping in a pacifier in the middle of night and wondered if I was crazy. But I would do it again because I can’t stomach the alternative. We know so little about the infant brain and our cultural expectations seemed like a mismatch with what my babies needed. Just a generation ago pediatricians and laypeople thought hitting children was not just fine but actually beneficial.

All this is to say that things can improve and there are many of us who didn’t bedshare or ebf who chose not to CIO. That said, I never experienced round the clock wake-ups every two hours…I wouldn’t fault someone for doing what they need to in that extreme situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think if you want to torture yourself this much you’ll just find something else when the sleep thing is over.

OP is going to be one of those moms who doesn’t make her child share and never says the word no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure my story will help but I think we have similar perspectives, OP.

I wasn’t able to breastfeed and that guilt only strengthened my resolve to never sleep train. I also think being able to feed a full bottle of formula at bedtime made it easier to get long stretches. Both children technically slept through the night by 6-8 months. I devoted a huge amount of time to the bedtime and nap time routines (lots of bouncing and rocking, no evening babysitters, sunlight in the am, nightly bath with same massage oil, etc.) until they were about 2. Both are now great sleepers who rarely need support. We never bedshared but roomshared for several months with crib in our bedroom—I think that made the transition to independence easier.

There are times I’ve calculated the endless hours spent rocking and popping in a pacifier in the middle of night and wondered if I was crazy. But I would do it again because I can’t stomach the alternative. We know so little about the infant brain and our cultural expectations seemed like a mismatch with what my babies needed. Just a generation ago pediatricians and laypeople thought hitting children was not just fine but actually beneficial.

All this is to say that things can improve and there are many of us who didn’t bedshare or ebf who chose not to CIO. That said, I never experienced round the clock wake-ups every two hours…I wouldn’t fault someone for doing what they need to in that extreme situation.

Wow, the amount of your delusion is sensational!

You did all that for two years. Meanwhile, I sleep trained in a week.

You kids are not better than my kids, or anyone elses, for your effort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did your baby/child’s sleep ever improve? Either naturally or with non-CIO methods? My baby is 7 months and our lives have completely fallen apart from lack of sleep. I’m too tired to detail all the problems and how bad it is. I don’t want to sleep train but feel we have exhausted everything else, so I’d like to hear only from those who didn’t sleep train and eventually saw improvement to see if realistically there is any hope.

Please do not suggest obvious things like white noise, styles of sleep sack, wake windows, solids, etc. we have Tried. It. All.

Yes no matter what sleep trainers tell you, sleep is developmental. It isnt "taught". That means you could turn someone who needs 8 hours as an adult into someone who functions at 100% on 5 hours. They normal rely on weird requirements for overnight sleep or that a late bedtime is bad/negligent.

If you are discussing STTN its defined as 5-7 hours, not 10-12. If your baby is doing that then they are STTN. My son did not STTN until 2.5. He still wakes 1-3/week at 4 years old. If its before 2am we take him back to his bed. If its after 2am we let him in our bed. We have seen progress so it doesnt bother us. He has always been a more frequent sleeper vs consolidated sleeper. It wasnt until he went down to 1 nap that he started sleeping more than 5-6 hours and until he dropped his nap that he sleeps well overnight (think 7/8-630-8).

He did have lots of food issues until about 15 months, then started teething (late teether who didnt have 2 year molars until 3), etc.

I coslept until 2 years and then weaned at 2.5 (when he started sleeping longer periods at night on his own- my supply became nonexistent and I wasnt interested in continuing to build it back up and then have it drop again as interest waned, repeat, repeat).

Please visit https://evolutionaryparenting.com/test/bitss/ a website that provides a screening tool for possible issues that may be causing more frequent wakening. Ex- food intolerances, chronic ear infections, englarged adenoids, etc.

Bizarre perspective. Not in my experience. Good sleep habits are absolutely taught. And they key is not running in the second they cry.

If your toddler is crying because you won't let them play with knives, are their poor little brains affected, too? This stupid line of reasoning that babies can't cry is ruining a generation.

[Anonymous]

I tried to sleep train second baby and it failed. I’m not dumb, I read all the books. At 20 months during an attempt at camping out, I put his water sippy cup in his crib and…. that was the trick. The whole time I was trying to make him cry it out, trying everything I could to get him to self soothe, it turns out he was thirsty. I feel really bad about it. It turns out he actually has a hidden nasal allergy with no real symptoms except mouth breathing, and the pediatrician didn’t diagnose it til he was 2.5, so I’m sure that’s why he needed liquid overnight.

The good thing is…. I have basically forgotten about those 20 months of bad nights! I’m not traumatized. It’s funny bc they start sleeping through the night and you think it’s going to solve all your life issues but it doesn’t haha. We even went on to have a third child!

[Anonymous]

I’m the “delusional” PP. You would be surprised how many parents have shared with me that they also refused to CIO but can’t say it openly because people like you are so judgmental and certain you have it all figured out. One is a neonatologist.

I don’t think my children are “better” than yours in any way, and it says something about you that you phrase things so crudely. What I do believe: my children were exposed to less stress during the first two years of their life. With skyrocketing childhood anxiety, it was worth it to me. I also felt that because I didn’t breastfeed I didn’t want to cut off another channel of attachment—being gently put to sleep.

Please don’t lump all of us in some “mommy martyr” category because it makes you feel better. I hold firm boundaries with my kids and have no issue saying no, never coslept, minimal baby wearing, allow candy and tv, etc. CIO was a bridge too far and my pov is more common than you might think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you want to torture yourself this much you’ll just find something else when the sleep thing is over.

OP is going to be one of those moms who doesn’t make her child share and never says the word no.

Hell no. I don’t even do attachment parenting and I think all the Big Feelings affirmation only stuff is crap. I just don’t think sleep training will work on my particular child. I’m pro it in general. Again, just because I’m not asking for advice here doesn’t mean I’m not seeking it elsewhere. I’m just looking for something very specific with this thread to help us make some decisions and calculate risks. Thanks

[Anonymous]

Okay, op.

I’m a magical fairy whom you seek.

Send me $500 and I’ll make sure your child will sleep through the night without using any of the time tested methods espoused here.

The venmo #getagripandaleepteainyourkid