My mom just had her visa denied... I need to vent! Long post warning...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP back. I don't have enough words to thank you all for the ideas and the support.
I wish it was easy as just go home have the baby and come back but I'm a few weeks from delivery and DH is not from the same country as me so to see each other we'll have to keep applying for visas to each other countries and most likely US embassy would never let me back with a young infant. I can't imagine raising my baby away from dad!
(by the way I was stuck in immigration once coming to US after vacation at home and DH passed but I didn't. School sent the wrong paperwork and I got stuck. DH in one side of the door and me on the other. It was devastating! It took me 15 days to fix it and a lot of money. Need to add that I lost one semester in school because of it.)
Anyway, we're already working on some of the suggestion you gave us and let's hope for the best.
Talking to my mom and grandma over the phone I learned they had what we call today PPD. They had no idea what it was and research has shown that it might be genetic. I'll see if my doc can write a letter explaining that it is better if I have my mom and I'm not alone while DH travels.
DH's co-worker lost his baby because the wife dropped the baby from the balcony. She had PPP and was not diagnosed. Her husband was traveling for work at the time. This things scare me so much. I hope we can work it out.
My mom is still very sad and ashamed of the humiliation (it was her first time trying a visa) so while we work from here I'll give her time to regroup.
Once again I thank you all for your kind words and ideas. May God give it back to you in blessings for your families.

wait-if your brother is in his twenties and in grad school I doubt he counts as a child to raise. OP and her DH are not citizens of the US. Child born here will be so....

Not OP, but in a way that depends on the culture. In my husband's home country, neither boys nor girls leave their parents' home until marriage and yes, they are treated like boys or girls even up through their 40s if they are not fortunate enough to marry. It's considered the norm there.

[Anonymous]

This may hold true in that culture but let us admit that most Americans, including probably a consular officer, would not consider a grown child who is not in any way impaired a strong tie and in getting the visa this is the only thing that matters -- Does the consul think the mother's ties are strong enough to bring her home?

[Anonymous]

OP again. My mom had all the docs you mentioned, including letters of he boss saying she was expected back at her workplace by a certain date, doctors appointment papers to prove she was expected back (we have free healthcare and nobody ever misses a docs appt since it can take months and sometimes years to re-schedule it).
What bothers me is that they didn't even let her prove
she had no intent to stay.
In our culture children are children until they get married. My brother and dad can't cook!!!! My mom was planning on leaving a freezer full of ready meals for them. Laundry doesn't happen when she's not around!
I suggest the American gov to train their officials to understand the culture they'll be dealing with before putting them to work.
The amount of money we spent, the stress, the expectations, nothing is taken into consideration... He mocked my mother and didn't even let her explain.
My mom is 60 years old. She drove 3 hours to be there in line at 5am. She was allowed into the embassy at noon and out at 3pm after a 3 minutes interview.
Can you think of DMV with no chairs or roof in a country by the equator line. If you seat on the ground you're kicked out for loitering, if you leave the line to get food or use the bathroom you go back to the end. You get the idea...

[Anonymous]

OP, I understand your emotion surrounding this. But I'd caution you that it's not going to be terribly helpful in advancing your case for a visa for your mother. And neither is presuming that the consular official is an arrogant idiot who knows nothing about your culture - which may be true, but also may not be. The consular officer may know perfectly well that your culture treats grown men like helpless babies... but is also be required to uphold US laws and regulations. It may be a perfectly reasonable, culturally-informed judgment that despite your father and brother's dependency on your mother, she is more likely to stay here taking care of her first grandchild.

I can tell you that as a nonUSG employee I see lots of incredibly moving cases all the time and know State Dept officers who want to help but are constrained by the legal requirements for various visa categories. I've been told by smart, totally sympathetic FSOs that even in the case of a well-known political prisoner from a country of enormous concern to US policy, it would take months to get a visa and that the poor financial situation of his family here will pose an obstacle. Now this is someone who has gotten a lot of press over the years, so if he is ever freed from jail in his home country, I suspect that an exception can be made etc etc. But even a senior foreign service officer cannot necessarily disregard the law or the regulations that are in place. And as someone who is trying to help the family, I'd rather know the legal requirements so that I can provide the right kind of help

You need to stop blaming others, and instead educate yourself on the process and what if any appeals process is viable, etc. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

I agree with PP. My dad is a retired FSO and spent many years as a consular officer, and you can't believe the number of cases of immigration fraud, particularly from certain countries where people are desperate to get out for economic reasons. EVERYONE has a story, and sooo many people arrive with all kinds of fraudulent documentation and so forth. People constantly tried to bribe him, threaten him, everything you can imagine. A grown son is nothing--many women will leave their infant children behind so they can work in the US and send money home. Because of these conditions, consular officers obviously get very cynical.

Unfortunately your mom fit a profile of someone likely to overstay. She is the victim of the fact that your own countrymen and women rampantly abuse the system. I'm sorry this happened but I agree that instead of getting worked up about it, you need to try again.

[Anonymous]

OP, here's my $0.02 worth of advice -

it's easier to find help with the first few weeks then putting your mom through this again. it might cost more but the peace of mind for all parties involved would be well worth it.

and here's something you don't want to hear - you're being here on student visa for 5 years could be one of the 'red flags' that got your mom's visa denied. i have a hard time imaging someone like your mom but without a daughter staying in the US for five years would have trouble getting the visa.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
and here's something you don't want to hear - you're being here on student visa for 5 years could be one of the 'red flags' that got your mom's visa denied. i have a hard time imaging someone like your mom but without a daughter staying in the US for five years would have trouble getting the visa.

My wife had been here over 10 years and was a US citizen and her mother was turned down. All of you who are trying to explain the legal issues involved need to realize (or at least admit) that the law requires a subjective decision by the consular officer. There is no scientific means of determining who has sufficient ties to their home country. Nobody can determine what ties are so valuable that they won't be cut because that varies from individual to individual. One person may give up a house, a job, and family members. Another may have nothing, but still not contemplate living illegally in a foreign country. So, a consular officer has to use her best judgement. Unfortunately, many do that in an arbitrary and cruel manner. They leave people not only disappointed, but humiliated.

OP, realistically this is not going to work out for you. The one thing that might work is intervention from a US Senator or Representative. The key people are not the Congressmen themselves, but their key staff members. If you can find someone that will talk to someone who works for someone, maybe they can get a letter for you. That's probably your only hope.

[Anonymous]

thanks Jeff, I guess you get it since you somehow have been there... I can't get over the bad taste in my mouth. I'm in the end of my pregnancy, anemic and I have no apetite, I just feel awful. If they only knew how hard we had to work to convince my mom to leave my bro and dad behind for a while... it's almost silly.
DH's parents don't even want to come to visit. They have no desire to fly here for anything. I wonder how much they know about a culture to set up these regulations...
We're working on getting the letter. DH has an acquitance who was a diplomat in my country for over 20 yrs I hope he can help us.

[Anonymous]

Jeff, no one has said that the visa process doesn't involve human judgement - which is inevitably subjective and yes can be exercise in an inappropriated manner. But the decisions are based on particular criteria, set by law and regulation, over which the consular officer has no real say. As a result the visa process is often unintentionally cruel - for example, for some of the same countries where we care about human rights - say, Burma or Iran - the presumption of intent to emigrate is by law so high that it bars many perfectly legitimate visitors with no intent to stay.

OP needs to talk to someone about the specifics of her case, her home country, and her visa status as well as that of her husband. If she's really intent on having her baby here and helping her mother get a visa, it's probably worth the money for a consultation with a lawyer focused on these issues. (Maybe your husband's firm has someone or would foot the bill?) Or at least to track down someone from State who is willing to help explain the current regs to you.

OP, a couple of other thoughts: you rejected the suggestion of going home to give birth, but maybe it's worth a second thought? If you are really a FT student making appropriate progress toward your degree (ie in year 5 of a 7 year PhD program rather than in year 5 of doing minimum courseload for an associate's degree), then having a child in your home country shouldn't impact your eligibility for a student visa. Obviously you need to ensure your university does the paperwork properly in any case, but there's no reason why having a small child should count against you... unless your student status ia already in question or in jeopardy (you mentioned the fact that you are on leave now, be sure to keep up with your university to ensure you don't mess up your status.)

Alternatively you should begin planning now - if as you said you're due in a few weeks (on that note, why did you leave your mother's visa to the last minute?) - for assistance to help you after birth and/or for your husband to alter his travel schedule to be available for you whenever you go into you labor. There are plenty of us who have had to make similar arrangements and can offer suggestions. There are lots of great baby nurses out there, doulas and other assistance before and during labor, or you can just wing it solo (I did it twice and it's really not as hard as some of hte discussions here make it sound.) Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Of course having a small child does not negatively impact the status of someone making appropriate progress toward a degree.

Jeff is right -- there is no scientific way to determine ties; it is left to the consul to determine. What many visa applicants don't understand is that a truckload of documents does not necessarily say "strong ties" to a consular officer. It usually means that someone paid a good visa "consultant" and can mean that the person's desperation knows no bounds. I have issued to people without any documents other than the application form and fee receipt because they were that credible.

If you reapply after a refusal something significant in your circumstances has to have changed for the previous denial to be overcome. If everything is the same the decision will be the same. Try to draw attention to something that may have been overlooked in the original interview.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
and here's something you don't want to hear - you're being here on student visa for 5 years could be one of the 'red flags' that got your mom's visa denied. i have a hard time imaging someone like your mom but without a daughter staying in the US for five years would have trouble getting the visa.

My wife had been here over 10 years and was a US citizen and her mother was turned down. All of you who are trying to explain the legal issues involved need to realize (or at least admit) that the law requires a subjective decision by the consular officer. There is no scientific means of determining who has sufficient ties to their home country. Nobody can determine what ties are so valuable that they won't be cut because that varies from individual to individual. One person may give up a house, a job, and family members. Another may have nothing, but still not contemplate living illegally in a foreign country. So, a consular officer has to use her best judgement. Unfortunately, many do that in an arbitrary and cruel manner. They leave people not only disappointed, but humiliated.

OP, realistically this is not going to work out for you. The one thing that might work is intervention from a US Senator or Representative. The key people are not the Congressmen themselves, but their key staff members. If you can find someone that will talk to someone who works for someone, maybe they can get a letter for you. That's probably your only hope.

Too true. When I was applying for my student visa to come and study here in the U.S, the university had messed up my paper work. When I went to the consulate to get my visa (just days before leaving on the plane to go and start my degree), the first officer who attended to me was a complete asshole, and told me that the paper work was messed up and he wouldn't give me a visa. I was dumbstruck and started crying, saying I had all the paperwork there, and I HAD to go. He just slammed the glass door shut and went to attended another immigration case. I refused to move and finally talked to another officer who gave me a temporary visa and told me that once I got to the U.S I'd need to go to Mexico or Canada to get the proper student visa.

Now, that has nothing to do with the legal restrictions and everything to do with the officer!! If it hadn't been for that nice officer, I would never have made it to the U.S. Consular officers have incredible power in their hands to impact someone's life, and some of them prove to be complete assholes about the way they use their power.

The consular officer for the OP's mother could have made more of an effort to be civil and treat the woman with respect, and read her goddamn letter!

[Anonymous]

S-T-R-E-T-C-H-I-N-G Who is a dependent and who is a relative is why the U.S. is becoming so strict. Really, there are more people trying to abuse the system than not (if you know anything at all about the system). We are not left much choice. If you are a taxpayer, you should be happy that our country is doing everything it can to keep us safe.

I happen to be first generation and value my citizenship. I would not have this country be any other way than trying to maintain our safety and well being.

Is anyone happy with overcrowded schools? Gangs? Real threats of terrorism? You can pretend it doesn't exist and doesn't need to be eradicated, but it is there. It is getting worse. One at a time. Open your eyes.

If you need to see your family so bad, go to your family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That is why people come here illegally.

You cannot justify coming to this country illegally. While you do not suggest outright that her mother do something that foolish somehow your comment could be construed that she might try to come here illegally. What if she did and is found out? Her daughter is here on a student visa which could be revoked and she can be deported. That's a really satifactory solution, isn't it?

[Anonymous]

OP, one other suggestion if your mom has the time and money: she could travel to another country and return. A history of going abroad (the more similar the countries are to the US, the better) provides evidence that she plans to return home after a visit. It's not foolproof, obviously, because the consular office will think she has more of an incentive to stay in the US since her daughter and grandchild are here, but it demonstrates that she's not generally trying to get out of her home country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

S-T-R-E-T-C-H-I-N-G Who is a dependent and who is a relative is why the U.S. is becoming so strict. Really, there are more people trying to abuse the system than not (if you know anything at all about the system). We are not left much choice. If you are a taxpayer, you should be happy that our country is doing everything it can to keep us safe.

I happen to be first generation and value my citizenship. I would not have this country be any other way than trying to maintain our safety and well being.

Is anyone happy with overcrowded schools? Gangs? Real threats of terrorism? You can pretend it doesn't exist and doesn't need to be eradicated, but it is there. It is getting worse. One at a time. Open your eyes.

If you need to see your family so bad, go to your family.

you're funny... you speak like crimes are commited only by immigrants.
don't be ridiculous.