What happened to this California family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has murder suicide written all over it. Why people wanna sugarcoat this escapes me.

Simple; a fat, unattractive woman can’t imagine Ms. Chung having any problems.

A person with financial problems believes a stout income brings happiness.

A person pining for more square footage in their house can’t fathom the homeowner of a larger, nicer place not tickled pink.

Some people sit and read forums all day because they have pathetic lives. They then look at Kelsey Berreth types and find it impossible to even consider they did not live in a perfect world.

Another forum currently has over 2k posts discussing the Gerrish baby carrier. Trust me, the kind of carrier the kid arrived to the scene in is pretty much irrelevant at this point. Even the dog leas has had thousand of posts. Ridiculous.

All that matters at this point is what the Big Dogs say and they are the lab scientists.

DP. No, I think FA is hard to buy because there was no obvious physical trauma and because unlike how it is in the movies, there aren't really many (any?) poisons where people just drop dead where they're standing 5 minutes later and haven't puked blood all over themselves. Law enforcement sees FA cases, they see heat deaths, this one is weird, they are telling us its weird and thats because it IS weird. At this point I won't be that shocked by any outcome but to act like this is cut and dried is really dumb.

Agree completely.

+1. I really doubt that this was FA and no I'm not jealous of the family or think they had perfect lives or anything like that. It's looking at the facts that are known versus everything else that's speculation, and almost everything in this thread is speculation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Messed up the quoting above, was responding to the lots of people move out of the city...

She was very young for a big city mom. How many of her old friend group had babies? I am guessing none.

The point of him whisking them away is a good one, I think it was also similar to his own childhood, he grew up in nature in the UK.

It does appear Gerrish wanted his daughter to have a childhood similar to his.

I wish for people to realize every pathologist in the country and perhaps globally is following this, offering opinion, etc. Very few deaths are ruled inconclusive. Three persons of different ages, gender and stature do not die from heat stroke simultaneously.
So much more is going on behind scenes. LE won’t tip their hand. They have tons of interviews to conduct and many will lead to yet more interviews. Any items of interest on phones/computers takes considerable time.
And as I previously posted, IF toxicology reveal “something” then the tests must be double checked and move to the quantitative analysis. It is not enough to declare someone died from fentanyl, for example. The certified records need to include precise amounts.
Time time time. And they are dealing with three deaths.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has murder suicide written all over it. Why people wanna sugarcoat this escapes me.

Simple; a fat, unattractive woman can’t imagine Ms. Chung having any problems.

A person with financial problems believes a stout income brings happiness.

A person pining for more square footage in their house can’t fathom the homeowner of a larger, nicer place not tickled pink.

Some people sit and read forums all day because they have pathetic lives. They then look at Kelsey Berreth types and find it impossible to even consider they did not live in a perfect world.

Another forum currently has over 2k posts discussing the Gerrish baby carrier. Trust me, the kind of carrier the kid arrived to the scene in is pretty much irrelevant at this point. Even the dog leas has had thousand of posts. Ridiculous.

All that matters at this point is what the Big Dogs say and they are the lab scientists.

DP. No, I think FA is hard to buy because there was no obvious physical trauma and because unlike how it is in the movies, there aren't really many (any?) poisons where people just drop dead where they're standing 5 minutes later and haven't puked blood all over themselves. Law enforcement sees FA cases, they see heat deaths, this one is weird, they are telling us its weird and thats because it IS weird. At this point I won't be that shocked by any outcome but to act like this is cut and dried is really dumb.

Agree completely.

+1. I really doubt that this was FA and no I'm not jealous of the family or think they had perfect lives or anything like that. It's looking at the facts that are known versus everything else that's speculation, and almost everything in this thread is speculation.

The only fact pertaining to CoD seems to be “unknown” and by now they’d know if heat caused an entire family to drop dead.

[Anonymous]

The positions they were found in could suggest heatstroke if the day went something like this- They start out on early hike and underestimate how hot it is going to get. They hike the easier part of trail first and then are getting worn out more quickly than usual. He is bigger than her and taller and was carrying baby and had dog/leash attached to him. He is exerting more energy and his body is heating up faster than hers. They could have been out longer because maybe at some point baby was fussy and they took baby out to cuddle or snuggle and were just sitting in heat longer. Or they let dog off leash and exerted more energy because dog wandered off. At some point they are on harder part of trail and he is not feeling well and says he needs to sit down. Dog/leash still attached to him. Mom goes over to him and takes baby out of carrier and attends to baby while she is waiting for her husband to feel better. Now he has no shade so his body keeps heating up rapidly and he has heat stroke and is dying. Meanwhile mom is in the same baking sun attending to baby , waiting for her husband to feel better and she starts to feel unwell. Her body is now heating up and she is panicked and starting to have signs of confusion. She can’t even hold baby anymore so she puts baby down next to husband and tries to get up and walk towards car and now she collapses from heatstroke and dies. Baby and dog will both die of heatstroke because dog is attached to dad and baby is helpless. This could have happened. But LE can’t know for sure until they rule out all other possibilities - toxins/drugs/MS/etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe he was having an affair with the nanny, and she tried to poison the wife with the water bladder.

Druggies in the area could have left traces of fentanyl in the environment, which they could have accidentally touched.

you local? true or false someone lawyered up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mariposa has a population of less than 2,000 and they were not even that close to the town.

I think he actually liked it there, he had been buying property there long before Ellen.

But for covid, not sure their lifestyle would have changed so suddenly and radically.

I wonder if he had kids from his prior marriage that he wanted to be closer to?

30 is young for a mom in SF, I doubt many of their burner friends were having families yet.

She looked really different in the 1 year photos.

Many who are drawn to study counseling are trying to figure out their family of origin or own deep seated mental health problems.

In more populated areas, moms with potential PPD would be encouraged to connect and socialize with other moms of babies, the median age in Mariposa is in their 50s and it was a 20 mile drive. The whole set up sounds really difficult. Maybe the idea of another winter there seemed like too much, so isolated. And if Jon was very doting with the baby, she may have felt jealous or left out. I have seen that happen.

Not many places for "date nights" or to dj. I assume they would avoid SF b/c baby and covid. I imagine his apartment there was rented out.

I still think it could have been accidental, but risk taking/dopamine chasing played a role and the extreme heat had to be a factor, even if it was one of several.

That's nonsense. All of your post is pure speculation but that part is nonsense.

Are you a parent? Or are you one of the true crime types who has descended on this parenting board?

Social support is very important for new moms, esp new moms who are struggling. Your ignorance is troubling.

https://www.postpartumdepression.com/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/moral-landscapes/201301/new-moms-need-social-support

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC4720860/

https://www.medibank.com.au/livebetter/families/new-parents/the-hidden-benefits-of-mothers-groups/

Being very socially isolated is not healthy. In fact, isolating is a common sign of depression. https://publichealth.tulane.edu/blog/effects-of-social-isolation-on-mental-health/

I think she wants to argue. If she finds the discussion upsetting, idk why she reads.
Thank you for informative links.

As far as isolation there really was no way for a pregnant woman to avoid it in the midst of a global pandemic. That had to be difficult, probably months passed with no socialization other than online. Any outings probably consisted of seeing her doctor and doula.

NP but I think the poster above was just saying it’s “nonsense” that in more populated areas you can automatically expect moms w PPD to be directed to support groups or mom groups. Like it’s a given that anyone w potential PPD would find the support they need if they live in a city vs in a rural area. The reality is people suffer w PPD no matter where they live although it does make finding support easier if you live in a place w a wider network of people/resources.

Whether people find support is individual but any large city is more likely to have more new moms than an extremely rural area with a median age in the 50s. The town of Mariposa was 20 miles away with a population of 1,800, yes, under 2k. How many new moms do you think are there vs. in SF? The median age in Mariposa is over 50, so, how many new moms? How many activities for babies and parents where they might connect with others in the same life transition in Mariposa, 20 miles away, vs in SF? Rural life is isolating in part because there are a lot fewer people at way less density. It also tends to be a place without newcomers, so making friends might be more difficult than a transient place like DC. But, can't connect with other new moms if there literally are none. Cv closures likely did not help.

Excellent points.
I hope nothing was wrong in their personal lives and it was as good as people believe. Real friendship takes time to develop. Ellen might have had people to socialize with that she really wouldn’t consider friends. I think she’d have little in common with people in Mariposa.

A friend sent me a video of her first granddaughter taking her first steps today, she shared a bday with Ellen’s baby. It made me wonder if she ever got to take that first step…😥.

I will say I really don't know what happened, but I can see this could be related to Ellen and I sort of "get it" in terms of being wildly unhappy on her part. As a PP said, Ellen was a pretty young mom for a "city girl" with a guy almost 15 years older than her. I think it is not out of the realm of possibility this could have been an accidental pregnancy, one which he (in his 40s) was super psyched about and that she had hesitations about. Their relationship moved quickly and they mostly had fun times traveling and partying, but with the pregnancy, sh+t got real. Add in moving to the middle of nowhere, a traumatic brain injury on her part (with accompanying emotional issues, possibly), being COVID isolated, and possible PPD? That does not sound great. As PPs mentioned, if it is true that she mostly slept the day away with a nanny onsite and a house manager (?) while the father was called out for being very very involved? I would not accuse her of a crime but it does seem she had a lot to be unhappy about.

Absolutely! It appears the father wasted no time relocating them away from Sf and might have felt it best to remove E from city temptations. Idk if she slept or didn’t sleep, I do consider perhaps she wasn’t overly maternal and J employed a nanny as backup during his work hours.
Like someone posted yesterday, we don’t even know if the baby was alive when they left for the forest. No one has mentioned seeing the family Saturday. We know from media reports Friday J did run some errands and had the baby in the museum I don’t know if E was with them, the museum owner commented about J explaining exhibits to his little girl. Maybe they had a daddy-daughter day out? It is all very weird.

But wasn’t she taking classes to earn another degree so she needed childcare for that? I assume she was worn out from the baby and also taking classes. The above PPs make it sound like she was doing nothing but hanging out in the house sleeping all day. I’m not saying it must have been heatstroke, but I don’t think having a nanny makes it more likely that it was FA, either.

Someone posted the curriculum pages back and it was maybe and hour or two a day of work, not something that would require full time childcare by most people's standards.

[Anonymous]

The necropsy on the dog failed to determine its CoD. The dog did NOT suffer heatstroke. hS in canine is easily detectable.

Eleven dogs with fatal heatstroke were examined grossly and histopathologically post mortem. All showed multi-organ haemorrhagic diathesis with coagulative necrosis. Hypaeremia and diffuse oedema were observed in the skin (eight dogs), lungs (11), brain (11) and bone marrow (one). Congestion of the splenic pulp (10 dogs) and hepatic sinusoids (nine) was also noted. Necrosis was observed in the mucosa of the small intestine (seven dogs), large intestine (eight), renal tubular epithelium (nine), hepatic parenchyma (eight) and brain neural tissue (four). The results showed that naturally occurring, fatal canine heatstroke induces acute multiple organ lesions affecting most body systems, and suggest that the more prevalent lesions include haemorrhagic diathesis, microthrombosis and coagulative necrosis. These are probable sequels of hyperthermia-induced disseminated intravascular coagulation and systemic inflammatory response syndrome, which lead to multi-organ dysfunction and death.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The necropsy on the dog failed to determine its CoD. The dog did NOT suffer heatstroke. hS in canine is easily detectable.

Eleven dogs with fatal heatstroke were examined grossly and histopathologically post mortem. All showed multi-organ haemorrhagic diathesis with coagulative necrosis. Hypaeremia and diffuse oedema were observed in the skin (eight dogs), lungs (11), brain (11) and bone marrow (one). Congestion of the splenic pulp (10 dogs) and hepatic sinusoids (nine) was also noted. Necrosis was observed in the mucosa of the small intestine (seven dogs), large intestine (eight), renal tubular epithelium (nine), hepatic parenchyma (eight) and brain neural tissue (four). The results showed that naturally occurring, fatal canine heatstroke induces acute multiple organ lesions affecting most body systems, and suggest that the more prevalent lesions include haemorrhagic diathesis, microthrombosis and coagulative necrosis. These are probable sequels of hyperthermia-induced disseminated intravascular coagulation and systemic inflammatory response syndrome, which lead to multi-organ dysfunction and death.

More:

Neurological dysfunction and abnormalities

Neurological abnormalities are invariably present in dogs with clinical heatstroke, including coma (40%), seizures (35%) and stupor (33%).30 Mild cases may show milder central nervous system (CNS) signs, such as disorientation or ‘delirium-like’ behavior. Extreme hyperthermia leads to cerebral hypoperfusion due to respiratory alkalosis and shock.72 This metabolic derangement is combined with the direct hyperthermic effects resulting in vascular damage, cerebral edema, hemorrhage and multifocal vascular thrombosis and infraction.72 Brain histopathology in fatal heatstroke cases in dogs has recorded cerebral edema, hemorrhage, hyperemia, and neuronal necrosis.34 The brain damage in heatstroke has been previously investigated in other mammals, including humans, and has been mainly attributed to a direct brain tissue thermal injury.73 Conversely, it has been shown that the canine brain has intrinsic thermal resistance, protecting it from direct thermal injury.72 It is therefore unlikely that direct thermal brain injury per se is the major factor in the pathogenesis of CNS lesions and abnormalities in dogs, although it might play a more minor part in the pathogenesis. The CNS abnormalities in dogs with heatstroke probably occur mostly secondary to shock and multi-organ dysfunction, including metabolic derangement, alkalosis or acidosis, hypoxia, hypoglycemia, bleeding and formation of microthrombi.34,72

Muscle damage and rhabdomyolysis

Rhabdomyolysis is a prominent feature of heatstroke in dogs, occurring during and following the heat insult, and is exacerbated during the first 24 hrs of hospitalization due to skeletal and cardiac muscular hypoperfusion, resulting from hypovolemic, distributive shock and microthromboses, secondary to developing DIC.37,74 Heatstroke in dogs is invariably reflected by increased muscle leakage enzymes activity.75 The severity of this increase reflects the extent of cellular muscular damage and the direct thermal injury to myocardial and skeletal muscle myocytes.74 In humans, rhabdomyolysis is confirmed through measurement of serum and urinary myoglobin concentration, however, in dogs, the human-based myoglobin immunoassays are insensitive, and currently no myoglobin immunoassay has been validated for use in dogs. Nevertheless, since oftentimes creatine kinase (CK) activity is markedly increased (median 17,000 U/L, >5 to 400-fold its upper reference limit) in dogs presented with heatstroke, it is reasonable to assume that rhabdomyolysis does occur in dogs with heatstroke, as described in humans victims of heatstroke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The necropsy on the dog failed to determine its CoD. The dog did NOT suffer heatstroke. hS in canine is easily detectable.

Eleven dogs with fatal heatstroke were examined grossly and histopathologically post mortem. All showed multi-organ haemorrhagic diathesis with coagulative necrosis. Hypaeremia and diffuse oedema were observed in the skin (eight dogs), lungs (11), brain (11) and bone marrow (one). Congestion of the splenic pulp (10 dogs) and hepatic sinusoids (nine) was also noted. Necrosis was observed in the mucosa of the small intestine (seven dogs), large intestine (eight), renal tubular epithelium (nine), hepatic parenchyma (eight) and brain neural tissue (four). The results showed that naturally occurring, fatal canine heatstroke induces acute multiple organ lesions affecting most body systems, and suggest that the more prevalent lesions include haemorrhagic diathesis, microthrombosis and coagulative necrosis. These are probable sequels of hyperthermia-induced disseminated intravascular coagulation and systemic inflammatory response syndrome, which lead to multi-organ dysfunction and death.

The dog has always been the sign that something very strange happened IMO. A dog would not die at the same time as the people without some type of outside intervention, and no dog dying of heatstroke would quietly sit next to their human, leashed or not. It would have sought out water.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The positions they were found in could suggest heatstroke if the day went something like this- They start out on early hike and underestimate how hot it is going to get. They hike the easier part of trail first and then are getting worn out more quickly than usual. He is bigger than her and taller and was carrying baby and had dog/leash attached to him. He is exerting more energy and his body is heating up faster than hers. They could have been out longer because maybe at some point baby was fussy and they took baby out to cuddle or snuggle and were just sitting in heat longer. Or they let dog off leash and exerted more energy because dog wandered off. At some point they are on harder part of trail and he is not feeling well and says he needs to sit down. Dog/leash still attached to him. Mom goes over to him and takes baby out of carrier and attends to baby while she is waiting for her husband to feel better. Now he has no shade so his body keeps heating up rapidly and he has heat stroke and is dying. Meanwhile mom is in the same baking sun attending to baby , waiting for her husband to feel better and she starts to feel unwell. Her body is now heating up and she is panicked and starting to have signs of confusion. She can’t even hold baby anymore so she puts baby down next to husband and tries to get up and walk towards car and now she collapses from heatstroke and dies. Baby and dog will both die of heatstroke because dog is attached to dad and baby is helpless. This could have happened. But LE can’t know for sure until they rule out all other possibilities - toxins/drugs/MS/etc.

The baby was in the backpack, which was stood on the trail.

This strikes me as so strange. If the baby was in distress or even dead, I would imagine they would take her out. If she was suffering from heat, those nylon carriers are super hot. She was next to Jon but he was not wearing the backpack when he died.

If it was FA I think it would be her, he was, by all accounts, very attached to the baby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The necropsy on the dog failed to determine its CoD. The dog did NOT suffer heatstroke. hS in canine is easily detectable.

Eleven dogs with fatal heatstroke were examined grossly and histopathologically post mortem. All showed multi-organ haemorrhagic diathesis with coagulative necrosis. Hypaeremia and diffuse oedema were observed in the skin (eight dogs), lungs (11), brain (11) and bone marrow (one). Congestion of the splenic pulp (10 dogs) and hepatic sinusoids (nine) was also noted. Necrosis was observed in the mucosa of the small intestine (seven dogs), large intestine (eight), renal tubular epithelium (nine), hepatic parenchyma (eight) and brain neural tissue (four). The results showed that naturally occurring, fatal canine heatstroke induces acute multiple organ lesions affecting most body systems, and suggest that the more prevalent lesions include haemorrhagic diathesis, microthrombosis and coagulative necrosis. These are probable sequels of hyperthermia-induced disseminated intravascular coagulation and systemic inflammatory response syndrome, which lead to multi-organ dysfunction and death.

The dog has always been the sign that something very strange happened IMO. A dog would not die at the same time as the people without some type of outside intervention, and no dog dying of heatstroke would quietly sit next to their human, leashed or not. It would have sought out water.

I knew it wasn’t heatstroke!!! Ha

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mariposa has a population of less than 2,000 and they were not even that close to the town.

I think he actually liked it there, he had been buying property there long before Ellen.

But for covid, not sure their lifestyle would have changed so suddenly and radically.

I wonder if he had kids from his prior marriage that he wanted to be closer to?

30 is young for a mom in SF, I doubt many of their burner friends were having families yet.

She looked really different in the 1 year photos.

Many who are drawn to study counseling are trying to figure out their family of origin or own deep seated mental health problems.

In more populated areas, moms with potential PPD would be encouraged to connect and socialize with other moms of babies, the median age in Mariposa is in their 50s and it was a 20 mile drive. The whole set up sounds really difficult. Maybe the idea of another winter there seemed like too much, so isolated. And if Jon was very doting with the baby, she may have felt jealous or left out. I have seen that happen.

Not many places for "date nights" or to dj. I assume they would avoid SF b/c baby and covid. I imagine his apartment there was rented out.

I still think it could have been accidental, but risk taking/dopamine chasing played a role and the extreme heat had to be a factor, even if it was one of several.

That's nonsense. All of your post is pure speculation but that part is nonsense.

Are you a parent? Or are you one of the true crime types who has descended on this parenting board?

Social support is very important for new moms, esp new moms who are struggling. Your ignorance is troubling.

https://www.postpartumdepression.com/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/moral-landscapes/201301/new-moms-need-social-support

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC4720860/

https://www.medibank.com.au/livebetter/families/new-parents/the-hidden-benefits-of-mothers-groups/

Being very socially isolated is not healthy. In fact, isolating is a common sign of depression. https://publichealth.tulane.edu/blog/effects-of-social-isolation-on-mental-health/

I think she wants to argue. If she finds the discussion upsetting, idk why she reads.
Thank you for informative links.

As far as isolation there really was no way for a pregnant woman to avoid it in the midst of a global pandemic. That had to be difficult, probably months passed with no socialization other than online. Any outings probably consisted of seeing her doctor and doula.

NP but I think the poster above was just saying it’s “nonsense” that in more populated areas you can automatically expect moms w PPD to be directed to support groups or mom groups. Like it’s a given that anyone w potential PPD would find the support they need if they live in a city vs in a rural area. The reality is people suffer w PPD no matter where they live although it does make finding support easier if you live in a place w a wider network of people/resources.

Whether people find support is individual but any large city is more likely to have more new moms than an extremely rural area with a median age in the 50s. The town of Mariposa was 20 miles away with a population of 1,800, yes, under 2k. How many new moms do you think are there vs. in SF? The median age in Mariposa is over 50, so, how many new moms? How many activities for babies and parents where they might connect with others in the same life transition in Mariposa, 20 miles away, vs in SF? Rural life is isolating in part because there are a lot fewer people at way less density. It also tends to be a place without newcomers, so making friends might be more difficult than a transient place like DC. But, can't connect with other new moms if there literally are none. Cv closures likely did not help.

Excellent points.
I hope nothing was wrong in their personal lives and it was as good as people believe. Real friendship takes time to develop. Ellen might have had people to socialize with that she really wouldn’t consider friends. I think she’d have little in common with people in Mariposa.

A friend sent me a video of her first granddaughter taking her first steps today, she shared a bday with Ellen’s baby. It made me wonder if she ever got to take that first step…😥.

I will say I really don't know what happened, but I can see this could be related to Ellen and I sort of "get it" in terms of being wildly unhappy on her part. As a PP said, Ellen was a pretty young mom for a "city girl" with a guy almost 15 years older than her. I think it is not out of the realm of possibility this could have been an accidental pregnancy, one which he (in his 40s) was super psyched about and that she had hesitations about. Their relationship moved quickly and they mostly had fun times traveling and partying, but with the pregnancy, sh+t got real. Add in moving to the middle of nowhere, a traumatic brain injury on her part (with accompanying emotional issues, possibly), being COVID isolated, and possible PPD? That does not sound great. As PPs mentioned, if it is true that she mostly slept the day away with a nanny onsite and a house manager (?) while the father was called out for being very very involved? I would not accuse her of a crime but it does seem she had a lot to be unhappy about.

Absolutely! It appears the father wasted no time relocating them away from Sf and might have felt it best to remove E from city temptations. Idk if she slept or didn’t sleep, I do consider perhaps she wasn’t overly maternal and J employed a nanny as backup during his work hours.
Like someone posted yesterday, we don’t even know if the baby was alive when they left for the forest. No one has mentioned seeing the family Saturday. We know from media reports Friday J did run some errands and had the baby in the museum I don’t know if E was with them, the museum owner commented about J explaining exhibits to his little girl. Maybe they had a daddy-daughter day out? It is all very weird.

But wasn’t she taking classes to earn another degree so she needed childcare for that? I assume she was worn out from the baby and also taking classes. The above PPs make it sound like she was doing nothing but hanging out in the house sleeping all day. I’m not saying it must have been heatstroke, but I don’t think having a nanny makes it more likely that it was FA, either.

Someone posted the curriculum pages back and it was maybe and hour or two a day of work, not something that would require full time childcare by most people's standards.

I know a woman in Indiana with a FT nanny, a house manager as well as a FT (former) elementary school teacher. The mother works from home and is from a large, well known republican family (hint hint). She has 4 kids, and owns a successful business. The nanny is to ONLY provide childcare, no housework. Obviously the teacher prepares lessons and provides instruction preparing the kids for school, spending appropriate time one on one as needed.The house manager coordinates schedules, receives deliveries, oversees the pool boy, the landscape company, schedules appointments for doctor, dentists and activities for the kids, acting as a PA to the mom.
Some women prefer work over laundry, mopping, soccer games and sitting in waiting rooms. If a young elementary teacher can give up tenure to work in home for one family she must be getting equal compensation, so I guess families in the upper tax bracket reward themselves with extra hands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The positions they were found in could suggest heatstroke if the day went something like this- They start out on early hike and underestimate how hot it is going to get. They hike the easier part of trail first and then are getting worn out more quickly than usual. He is bigger than her and taller and was carrying baby and had dog/leash attached to him. He is exerting more energy and his body is heating up faster than hers. They could have been out longer because maybe at some point baby was fussy and they took baby out to cuddle or snuggle and were just sitting in heat longer. Or they let dog off leash and exerted more energy because dog wandered off. At some point they are on harder part of trail and he is not feeling well and says he needs to sit down. Dog/leash still attached to him. Mom goes over to him and takes baby out of carrier and attends to baby while she is waiting for her husband to feel better. Now he has no shade so his body keeps heating up rapidly and he has heat stroke and is dying. Meanwhile mom is in the same baking sun attending to baby , waiting for her husband to feel better and she starts to feel unwell. Her body is now heating up and she is panicked and starting to have signs of confusion. She can’t even hold baby anymore so she puts baby down next to husband and tries to get up and walk towards car and now she collapses from heatstroke and dies. Baby and dog will both die of heatstroke because dog is attached to dad and baby is helpless. This could have happened. But LE can’t know for sure until they rule out all other possibilities - toxins/drugs/MS/etc.

The baby was in the backpack, which was stood on the trail.

This strikes me as so strange. If the baby was in distress or even dead, I would imagine they would take her out. If she was suffering from heat, those nylon carriers are super hot. She was next to Jon but he was not wearing the backpack when he died.

If it was FA I think it would be her, he was, by all accounts, very attached to the baby.

Maybe mom took the carrier of her husband when she realized he was too sick to get back up. Maybe mom holding baby for a while while her husband was getting worse instead of better and then mom put baby back in carrier intending to carry baby to get help but then mom was feeling sick and confused and just starting walking but collapsed. Going from heat illness to death or collapse can happen quickly. I think where she was found suggests she tried to get help but collapsed and then died. She probably did not intend to leave baby but was confused caused by heat illness. She may not have died immediately but could have passed out. Lying in baking sun will lead to death.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The necropsy on the dog failed to determine its CoD. The dog did NOT suffer heatstroke. hS in canine is easily detectable.

Eleven dogs with fatal heatstroke were examined grossly and histopathologically post mortem. All showed multi-organ haemorrhagic diathesis with coagulative necrosis. Hypaeremia and diffuse oedema were observed in the skin (eight dogs), lungs (11), brain (11) and bone marrow (one). Congestion of the splenic pulp (10 dogs) and hepatic sinusoids (nine) was also noted. Necrosis was observed in the mucosa of the small intestine (seven dogs), large intestine (eight), renal tubular epithelium (nine), hepatic parenchyma (eight) and brain neural tissue (four). The results showed that naturally occurring, fatal canine heatstroke induces acute multiple organ lesions affecting most body systems, and suggest that the more prevalent lesions include haemorrhagic diathesis, microthrombosis and coagulative necrosis. These are probable sequels of hyperthermia-induced disseminated intravascular coagulation and systemic inflammatory response syndrome, which lead to multi-organ dysfunction and death.

The dog has always been the sign that something very strange happened IMO. A dog would not die at the same time as the people without some type of outside intervention, and no dog dying of heatstroke would quietly sit next to their human, leashed or not. It would have sought out water.

I knew it wasn’t heatstroke!!! Ha

Lol💡💡💡
Of course it wasn’t HS.
If you have a small animal vet, text or email and ask him/her if it is even remotely possible for HS to go undetected in canine.
It can’t happen!
FYI, the dog’s specimens got shipped out. To where, you ask. The TOX LAB!👍

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The positions they were found in could suggest heatstroke if the day went something like this- They start out on early hike and underestimate how hot it is going to get. They hike the easier part of trail first and then are getting worn out more quickly than usual. He is bigger than her and taller and was carrying baby and had dog/leash attached to him. He is exerting more energy and his body is heating up faster than hers. They could have been out longer because maybe at some point baby was fussy and they took baby out to cuddle or snuggle and were just sitting in heat longer. Or they let dog off leash and exerted more energy because dog wandered off. At some point they are on harder part of trail and he is not feeling well and says he needs to sit down. Dog/leash still attached to him. Mom goes over to him and takes baby out of carrier and attends to baby while she is waiting for her husband to feel better. Now he has no shade so his body keeps heating up rapidly and he has heat stroke and is dying. Meanwhile mom is in the same baking sun attending to baby , waiting for her husband to feel better and she starts to feel unwell. Her body is now heating up and she is panicked and starting to have signs of confusion. She can’t even hold baby anymore so she puts baby down next to husband and tries to get up and walk towards car and now she collapses from heatstroke and dies. Baby and dog will both die of heatstroke because dog is attached to dad and baby is helpless. This could have happened. But LE can’t know for sure until they rule out all other possibilities - toxins/drugs/MS/etc.

The baby was in the backpack, which was stood on the trail.

This strikes me as so strange. If the baby was in distress or even dead, I would imagine they would take her out. If she was suffering from heat, those nylon carriers are super hot. She was next to Jon but he was not wearing the backpack when he died.

If it was FA I think it would be her, he was, by all accounts, very attached to the baby.

Maybe mom took the carrier of her husband when she realized he was too sick to get back up. Maybe mom holding baby for a while while her husband was getting worse instead of better and then mom put baby back in carrier intending to carry baby to get help but then mom was feeling sick and confused and just starting walking but collapsed. Going from heat illness to death or collapse can happen quickly. I think where she was found suggests she tried to get help but collapsed and then died. She probably did not intend to leave baby but was confused caused by heat illness. She may not have died immediately but could have passed out. Lying in baking sun will lead to death.

What? Come on.