Leaving DC for a lower COL area

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The top two hospitals in the United States are in Cleveland and Rochester, MN. #3 is in Baltimore, #5 is in Michigan, #11 is in St. Louis, #12 is in Phoenix, #14 is in Philadelphia, #15 is in Pittsburgh, #17 is in Nashville, and #19 is in Durham.

Whoever said lower COL areas have crappy hospitals has no idea what they are talking about.

Nice homes and good schools are hardly cheap in Phoenix, Philly, or Durham.

These are still real cities. Not that much cheaper, especially if you want decent neighborhoods

We live in Philadelphia. I can buy a house in an excellent school district and still be close to Center City for 500k or less. I'm not sure why people are pretending it's somehow no different from DC. There are expensive areas and if you want a large beautiful house in a top neighborhood with top public or private schools you will pay for it, sure, but it'll be cheaper than the equivalent in DC. And even the Mainline has affordable housing for 500k and under. They won't be large and will usually be attached semi-detached housing, but you get great schools, a pleasant neighborhood and a short commute via regional rail to Center City.

Most of our neighbors are highly educated people who went to the best colleges and universities in this country. I don't think they're any less intelligent than people in DC or Boston. They all have great jobs. I find the self-absorbed, self-important perspective of so many DC people chilling rather than informative.

Thinking about a move to the Philly area and wondering where you ended up, PP.

We still live in Center City but are eyeing a move to the suburbs next year for schools. We really like Wyndmoor, which is just north of Chestnut Hill and has great schools and a lovely housing stock. It's more varied than most Main Line towns and a bit more laid back and we like the Chestnut Hill shopping area along Germantown Avenue. Main Line towns are slightly closer and we will still look into the towns. The housing stock varies greatly. People think it's all mansions but it's not. It's a mixture of mansions and family housing and even affordable duplexes and rows. It entirely depends on where you go in each town. Schools are excellent. Of the towns we like Wynnewood and Merion Station, both closest to the Center City. We also like Wayne but it's a bit further out. Narberth is the most affordable of the Main Line towns, along with Ardmore, but most of these towns feed into the same schools (Lower Merion), with Wayne feeding into Radnor schools (also excellent).

Other towns that get rave reviews are Swarthmore/Media and on the NJ side, Haddonfield.

We are also talking to knowledgeable people about navigating the Philadelphia schools. Some of the neighborhood elementary schools are excellent. The city-wide examination entry high school, Masterman, is one of the best in the nation. It's middle schools that are the problem. We're still exploring the pros and cons of buying in places like Mount Airy or Chestnut Hill itself.

Hello Philly! I live out in the Western 'burbs. Moved here from DC a few years ago. I own a small little cottage type house that would have cost me 3 times as much back in an equivalent area in the DC 'burbs. I can walk to the train and my commute total time (door to door) is about 1/2 hour. We can also walk to a few restaurants, and drive 5 minutes to others. My family is much happier here. We have found the locals to be very friendly and inviting.

NP here and another DC to Philly transplant. We moved here some time ago and live in Chestnut Hill; we send our kids to private school though a growing number of city families use public, especially for elementary and high school (middle school is tougher). We've been very happy here and I feel that Philly has the amenities you want in a city while still being navigable and affordable. I did find it, not exactly insular, but somehow tough to break into when we moved. Many people grew up here, unlike those now living in DC, and are very rooted here. That can make it harder to find friends but with time we have, many of whom are also transplants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm one of the Philly posters. It definitely has its drawbacks compared to DC. The job market isn't as good for some professions. The subway is disgustingly dirty. I've felt less safe downtown. But, Philly definitely has cheaper housing and there is plenty to do. For me overall it's good. If I ever want to switch jobs, though, I have much, much less choice than I did in DC.

+1. The lower housing costs are related to JOBS

[Anonymous]

Sometimes I think about moving to Winchester, VA. I grew up there and my family is still there as are my friends from childhood. There are times when I drive to a traffic light and there are no other cars at the light in any direction. It takes me five minutes to get from the house I grew up in to the grocery store, restaurants, target, etc. Traffic is non-existent. I could prob. keep my current job and telework 4 days per week and work a shortened day when I had to commute in.

I don't care either way about politics although I see that as a recurring theme in this thread. Not a huge foodie either. We don't go out to eat often so the places they have there would be fine for me.

Daycare is so cheap there. Housing is cheaper there although not as cheap as I would have thought. A 4K sq. foot house like mine is $550K there vs. $750K here in FFX Co. suburbs. Gas is like $0.30 cheaper per gallon due to the taxes up here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm one of the Philly posters. It definitely has its drawbacks compared to DC. The job market isn't as good for some professions. The subway is disgustingly dirty. I've felt less safe downtown. But, Philly definitely has cheaper housing and there is plenty to do. For me overall it's good. If I ever want to switch jobs, though, I have much, much less choice than I did in DC.

+1. The lower housing costs are related to JOBS

Houston is one of the fastest growing jobs market and has cheap housing. There's a lot more to what determines the value of housing than just jobs itself. I think you need to get a grip on reality and that most of the country manages just fine and dandy without living in DC, and gasp, even flourish.

If I were to move back to DC I know I could set up a dozen interviews for my fairly generic job in the next week and have at least one six figure offer in hand the following week, but the trade off is the higher cost of living and that most of the jobs are out in suburban office parks in places like Reston or near Fort Meade and day to day life would be rather unremarkable for what I pay for in COL. DC works extremely well for many people, but for others it's pointless putting up with the region's charms.

[Anonymous]

I love the DC area but we moved away a couple of months ago to the Midwest. We bought a house in a nice, mid-sized town that has all the amenities and then some. The economy here is good but real estate is still reasonable by DC-standards (pretty high by local standards). We paid 500k for a house that is over 5,000 square feet. The schools are good, people are nice. It's fine. Still miss DC though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm one of the Philly posters. It definitely has its drawbacks compared to DC. The job market isn't as good for some professions. The subway is disgustingly dirty. I've felt less safe downtown. But, Philly definitely has cheaper housing and there is plenty to do. For me overall it's good. If I ever want to switch jobs, though, I have much, much less choice than I did in DC.

+1. The lower housing costs are related to JOBS

Houston is one of the fastest growing jobs market and has cheap housing. There's a lot more to what determines the value of housing than just jobs itself. I think you need to get a grip on reality and that most of the country manages just fine and dandy without living in DC, and gasp, even flourish.

If I were to move back to DC I know I could set up a dozen interviews for my fairly generic job in the next week and have at least one six figure offer in hand the following week, but the trade off is the higher cost of living and that most of the jobs are out in suburban office parks in places like Reston or near Fort Meade and day to day life would be rather unremarkable for what I pay for in COL. DC works extremely well for many people, but for others it's pointless putting up with the region's charms.

Most jobs are average or low paying. Plenty of land and isn’t even really a city. Just urban sprawl.

Reston and fort Meade aren’t dc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm one of the Philly posters. It definitely has its drawbacks compared to DC. The job market isn't as good for some professions. The subway is disgustingly dirty. I've felt less safe downtown. But, Philly definitely has cheaper housing and there is plenty to do. For me overall it's good. If I ever want to switch jobs, though, I have much, much less choice than I did in DC.

+1. The lower housing costs are related to JOBS

Houston is one of the fastest growing jobs market and has cheap housing. There's a lot more to what determines the value of housing than just jobs itself. I think you need to get a grip on reality and that most of the country manages just fine and dandy without living in DC, and gasp, even flourish.

If I were to move back to DC I know I could set up a dozen interviews for my fairly generic job in the next week and have at least one six figure offer in hand the following week, but the trade off is the higher cost of living and that most of the jobs are out in suburban office parks in places like Reston or near Fort Meade and day to day life would be rather unremarkable for what I pay for in COL. DC works extremely well for many people, but for others it's pointless putting up with the region's charms.

Most jobs are average or low paying. Plenty of land and isn’t even really a city. Just urban sprawl.

Reston and fort Meade aren’t dc.

Cost of living. Someone making $100K in DC would only have to make $59K in Houston to maintain their standard of living. I mean, this is really basic stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm one of the Philly posters. It definitely has its drawbacks compared to DC. The job market isn't as good for some professions. The subway is disgustingly dirty. I've felt less safe downtown. But, Philly definitely has cheaper housing and there is plenty to do. For me overall it's good. If I ever want to switch jobs, though, I have much, much less choice than I did in DC.

+1. The lower housing costs are related to JOBS

Houston is one of the fastest growing jobs market and has cheap housing. There's a lot more to what determines the value of housing than just jobs itself. I think you need to get a grip on reality and that most of the country manages just fine and dandy without living in DC, and gasp, even flourish.

If I were to move back to DC I know I could set up a dozen interviews for my fairly generic job in the next week and have at least one six figure offer in hand the following week, but the trade off is the higher cost of living and that most of the jobs are out in suburban office parks in places like Reston or near Fort Meade and day to day life would be rather unremarkable for what I pay for in COL. DC works extremely well for many people, but for others it's pointless putting up with the region's charms.

Most jobs are average or low paying. Plenty of land and isn’t even really a city. Just urban sprawl.

Reston and fort Meade aren’t dc.

You don't know anything about Houston, do you? You just pulled those excuses out of a hat. Houston offers the combination of pretty good salaries with a low cost of living. I can get pretty close to DC level salaries for my work down in Houston. And it's a city whether you like it or not. Reston and Fort Meade are also part of DC whether you like it or not. They're part of the region. Am I talking to a kid here?

[Anonymous]

Things I do not like about Houston: Flooding, HOT most of the year (no change of seasons), it is not a pretty or scenic city (aka sucky zoning) and it is in Texas. Yes, it is progressive but IT is IN TEXAS.

-signed a Texas native

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Things I do not like about Houston: Flooding, HOT most of the year (no change of seasons), it is not a pretty or scenic city (aka sucky zoning) and it is in Texas. Yes, it is progressive but IT is IN TEXAS.

-signed a Texas native

My sister lives in League City which I guess is considered the Houston area. She said the traffic there is really bad because they have no mass transit. She has a similar complaint about zoning and said what they do is put all the houses behind strip malls. Home insurance is really expensive as are property taxes although no state income tax so that prob evens out unless youre retired. Her house was really reasonably priced though and would likely cost 2x that up here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Philly is really insular and kind of mediocre, though the suburbs have some nicer older homes. There’s obviously a reason why it’s more affordable than other areas. It’s better than Baltimore, but beyond that...

Philly has wayyyyyyyyyyy better dining, better arts, better sports, better architecture and is better in almost every way than DC. Mainline PA is stunningly gorgeous and has beautiful homes. Plus PA has lots of small charming little town all.over the place on the mainline with lots of hidden gems. Would easily move to PA for lower COL and better QOL if I weren't tired to the area w the job.

Then why isn’t Philly a more expensive place to live if it’s so desirable? Why aren’t companies and recent college grads moving there?

You really should stop talking because the more you open your mouth the more ignorance tumbles out of it.

Philly has more college students than Boston, and Center City is filled with recent college grads. The place is heaving with them. There are lots of jobs. It's a solid region and growing. They built Comcast Tower. It's not a boom town but it's not a depressed hicksville either. Harping on why such a place isn't as expensive as another is meaningless. What exactly does that prove? Or mean? Are you patting yourself for making a six figure income in DC when that's an artificially inflated wage that leaves you no better off than someone making half that amount in another city and who likely has a better quality of life?

Real estate prices reveal A LOT. If more people wanted to live in Philly and it was desirable as you believe, then it wouldn’t be so inexpensive to live there. You live there so you probably can’t understand this, but Philly isn’t a growth city. It’s a second tier city barely hanging on. It has some interesting history and pretty homes, but Philly isn’t a city of the future. NY, Washington and Boston have substantially outpaced phillys private sector job growth within the past 10 years. Just google it. Even Jacksonville and Phoenix had stronger job growth than Philly.

The rest of your post is full of assumptions.

You also seem very defensive about Philly. Just because I doubt that philly is desirable as you believe doesn’t mean that it I’m no better off than someone making half my salary outside of DC and that I have a lower quality of life.

Because Philly doesn’t have a bunch of government t!t suckers. People don’t want to live in DC because there is anything special about it. They come here for jobs. Most of those jobs are somehow related to the government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The underlying issue here is that DC neighborhoods generally suck compared to nice neighborhoods in other cities. Sure, the prices are inflated for economic reasons but there isn’t a single neighborhood with the overall appeal of Roland Park in Baltimore, the Fan in Richmond, Shadyside in Pittsburgh, Outremont in Montreal, the Louisville Highlands, the Back Bay in Boston, any number of NYC neighborhoods, etc.

Deep down, everyone in DC knows this, which is why some get so incredibly defensive when other areas, especially those with lower COLs, are identified as alternatives. They are so afraid that the emperor’s lack of clothes will be openly discussed.

Shaker Heights - Cleveland

You're arguing that these single, solitary areas in each major city are better than brilliant neighborhoods in D.C.? And yes lol, I'd argue that Capital Hill, Dupont Circle, Logan Circle, Georgetown, and the Wharf far above surpass Roland Park/the Fan/Shadyside/Shaker Heights. For various reasons but the collective whole of D.C. can't be matched unless we're talking about NYC/SF/Montreal.

Enjoy Cleveland though.

I'll give you Georgetown. It's a truly historically unique neighborhood, with a timeless cool. There's just very few places in America that you can even compare to it. Even Cap Hill to some extent, although I'd argue it's more for the housing stock than anything else. But Dupont? Logan Circle? Geez, the Wharf? You've got to be kidding me. You need to get out and spend some time in Back Bay, Venice Beach, Deep Ellum and some of these other areas around the country. When it comes to the look, the vibe or the restaurants - there is nothing exceptional about Dupont or Logan. Nothing. And whatever natural charm the Wharf had has been obliterated by $300-a-night restaurants and a man-made plaza that you'll find in any developing suburb worth its salt. C'mon. It's ok to tout what's truly special about DC, but let the Chamber peddle that other nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Philly is really insular and kind of mediocre, though the suburbs have some nicer older homes. There’s obviously a reason why it’s more affordable than other areas. It’s better than Baltimore, but beyond that...

Philly has wayyyyyyyyyyy better dining, better arts, better sports, better architecture and is better in almost every way than DC. Mainline PA is stunningly gorgeous and has beautiful homes. Plus PA has lots of small charming little town all.over the place on the mainline with lots of hidden gems. Would easily move to PA for lower COL and better QOL if I weren't tired to the area w the job.

Then why isn’t Philly a more expensive place to live if it’s so desirable? Why aren’t companies and recent college grads moving there?

You really should stop talking because the more you open your mouth the more ignorance tumbles out of it.

Philly has more college students than Boston, and Center City is filled with recent college grads. The place is heaving with them. There are lots of jobs. It's a solid region and growing. They built Comcast Tower. It's not a boom town but it's not a depressed hicksville either. Harping on why such a place isn't as expensive as another is meaningless. What exactly does that prove? Or mean? Are you patting yourself for making a six figure income in DC when that's an artificially inflated wage that leaves you no better off than someone making half that amount in another city and who likely has a better quality of life?

Real estate prices reveal A LOT. If more people wanted to live in Philly and it was desirable as you believe, then it wouldn’t be so inexpensive to live there. You live there so you probably can’t understand this, but Philly isn’t a growth city. It’s a second tier city barely hanging on. It has some interesting history and pretty homes, but Philly isn’t a city of the future. NY, Washington and Boston have substantially outpaced phillys private sector job growth within the past 10 years. Just google it. Even Jacksonville and Phoenix had stronger job growth than Philly.

The rest of your post is full of assumptions.

You also seem very defensive about Philly. Just because I doubt that philly is desirable as you believe doesn’t mean that it I’m no better off than someone making half my salary outside of DC and that I have a lower quality of life.

Because Philly doesn’t have a bunch of government t!t suckers. People don’t want to live in DC because there is anything special about it. They come here for jobs. Most of those jobs are somehow related to the government.

PP shot themselves in the foot with the Jacksonville argument, which proves a "stronger economy" does not equal a better city. There is more to life than "economic growth" or a "dynamic economy," you herb. I'm sure Houston has a more "robust economy" than Paris or Barcelona. That doesn't make it a better city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Philly is really insular and kind of mediocre, though the suburbs have some nicer older homes. There’s obviously a reason why it’s more affordable than other areas. It’s better than Baltimore, but beyond that...

Philly has wayyyyyyyyyyy better dining, better arts, better sports, better architecture and is better in almost every way than DC. Mainline PA is stunningly gorgeous and has beautiful homes. Plus PA has lots of small charming little town all.over the place on the mainline with lots of hidden gems. Would easily move to PA for lower COL and better QOL if I weren't tired to the area w the job.

Then why isn’t Philly a more expensive place to live if it’s so desirable? Why aren’t companies and recent college grads moving there?

You really should stop talking because the more you open your mouth the more ignorance tumbles out of it.

Philly has more college students than Boston, and Center City is filled with recent college grads. The place is heaving with them. There are lots of jobs. It's a solid region and growing. They built Comcast Tower. It's not a boom town but it's not a depressed hicksville either. Harping on why such a place isn't as expensive as another is meaningless. What exactly does that prove? Or mean? Are you patting yourself for making a six figure income in DC when that's an artificially inflated wage that leaves you no better off than someone making half that amount in another city and who likely has a better quality of life?

Real estate prices reveal A LOT. If more people wanted to live in Philly and it was desirable as you believe, then it wouldn’t be so inexpensive to live there. You live there so you probably can’t understand this, but Philly isn’t a growth city. It’s a second tier city barely hanging on. It has some interesting history and pretty homes, but Philly isn’t a city of the future. NY, Washington and Boston have substantially outpaced phillys private sector job growth within the past 10 years. Just google it. Even Jacksonville and Phoenix had stronger job growth than Philly.

The rest of your post is full of assumptions.

You also seem very defensive about Philly. Just because I doubt that philly is desirable as you believe doesn’t mean that it I’m no better off than someone making half my salary outside of DC and that I have a lower quality of life.

Because Philly doesn’t have a bunch of government t!t suckers. People don’t want to live in DC because there is anything special about it. They come here for jobs. Most of those jobs are somehow related to the government.

PP shot themselves in the foot with the Jacksonville argument, which proves a "stronger economy" does not equal a better city. There is more to life than "economic growth" or a "dynamic economy," you herb. I'm sure Houston has a more "robust economy" than Paris or Barcelona. That doesn't make it a better city.

It doesn’t make DC a better city either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The underlying issue here is that DC neighborhoods generally suck compared to nice neighborhoods in other cities. Sure, the prices are inflated for economic reasons but there isn’t a single neighborhood with the overall appeal of Roland Park in Baltimore, the Fan in Richmond, Shadyside in Pittsburgh, Outremont in Montreal, the Louisville Highlands, the Back Bay in Boston, any number of NYC neighborhoods, etc.

Deep down, everyone in DC knows this, which is why some get so incredibly defensive when other areas, especially those with lower COLs, are identified as alternatives. They are so afraid that the emperor’s lack of clothes will be openly discussed.

Shaker Heights - Cleveland

You're arguing that these single, solitary areas in each major city are better than brilliant neighborhoods in D.C.? And yes lol, I'd argue that Capital Hill, Dupont Circle, Logan Circle, Georgetown, and the Wharf far above surpass Roland Park/the Fan/Shadyside/Shaker Heights. For various reasons but the collective whole of D.C. can't be matched unless we're talking about NYC/SF/Montreal.

Enjoy Cleveland though.

I'll give you Georgetown. It's a truly historically unique neighborhood, with a timeless cool. There's just very few places in America that you can even compare to it. Even Cap Hill to some extent, although I'd argue it's more for the housing stock than anything else. But Dupont? Logan Circle? Geez, the Wharf? You've got to be kidding me. You need to get out and spend some time in Back Bay, Venice Beach, Deep Ellum and some of these other areas around the country. When it comes to the look, the vibe or the restaurants - there is nothing exceptional about Dupont or Logan. Nothing. And whatever natural charm the Wharf had has been obliterated by $300-a-night restaurants and a man-made plaza that you'll find in any developing suburb worth its salt. C'mon. It's ok to tout what's truly special about DC, but let the Chamber peddle that other nonsense.

Are you joking? Both are historic districts and have extremely unique architecture and are 100 % walkable. Or Kalorama and all of the embassies and historical building sites. The real estate market definitely disagrees with you. Have you even walked around these areas? I don’t mean the main drags like Connecticut Avenue.