New Girls High School Lacrosse Club

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dd plays for a Baltimore team. Her team has definitely played some teams, including Va teams, where neither the players or parents seem to understand that legal checking is allowed. On the other hand, they have also played a team or two where the coach is screaming at their players to swing at player’s heads. The first group is significantly larger than the second, and it seems that most refs will err on calling a legal check illegal than the reverse, at least in the middle school years.

As a parent of a middle schooler, I think that is the right balance. It’s a safety issue. Ideally, all refs would call illegal checking when it is and not call it when it isn’t. But, that’s not going to happen, so better to err on the side of preventing dangerous play.

Exactly. The equipment the girls use, a stick and a mouth guard, do nothing to prevent a dangerous play from exacting significant damage. If the play becomes much more aggressive then the girls will need pads and helmets like the boys. I think that would hurt the game. When girls lacrosse is played well it is a beautiful example of athleticism, skill, strategy, excellent hand-eye coordination, girls asserting themselves on the field and teamwork. The aggressive actions become more about size, threat and intimidation with an unhealthy mix of injuries with the growing potential for even more horrible outcomes.

There doesn't seem much we can do at a local level about the travel teams since they play teams from all over the country. However, there is a lot we can do at a local level with our high school and rec league teams to encourage and require that the games be played assertively while also playing safely with an emphasis on legal play. As parents I believe it is our responsibility to assert with coaches and refs that games be played safely and legally.

OMG. What a ridiculous and yet classic DMV parent response. This reactive attitude is not going to help our girls. The coaches and teams and programs in this area need to keep up with the national trends and style of play. We aren’t special. We don’t get to determine how girls lax is played. College programs determine the style and pace of change. If you don’t like the way girls lax is developing go start your own sport. Holding local girls back from becoming stronger, better, more aggressive and confident lacrosse players only hurts them. Being tougher and more aggressive does NOT have to equal more injuries or more protective equipment if the skills are taught properly. Stop treating our girls like it’s the 1950s and they are fragile, incapable flowers.

Bottom line is if a girl wants to play college lacrosse, and many many girls from our area DO, they need to be taught to play at the same level and with the same skill, intensity and grit as the best middle and high school programs around the country. Holding them back from playing this way will result in fewer and fewer girls making the move to top college programs. What is going on with Capital lacrosse right now is case-in-point.

Just reading this thread but as best I can tell no one has suggested the girls not be taught to play aggressive. It sounds like most agree the girls can learn to play more aggressively, but do so within the confines of the rules. Everyone seems to agree there are SOME teams, coaches, and players that may stretch the rules. Not all. If the USL decides to make changes to the rules that allow for some of the unsportsmanlike behavior mentioned then players will need to adjust or find a new sport to play. But right now the rules in place don't support overly aggressive dangerous play, which some on this thread clearly feel teams are exhibiting. The USL has the rules in place to protect the game and players. And keep the playing field level. The refs need to enforce the rules and be willing to call out those who don't follow them. Consistency seems to be an issue with refs from what I've seen at tournaments. You make a very good point in that the girls need to be taught properly. Properly is the key word because it seems some feel the coaches are not teaching their players properly; thus, the issue at hand. If girls are being penalized by colleges for playing within the rules and labeled as soft for doing so then that is a whole different topic the USL needs to address.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dd plays for a Baltimore team. Her team has definitely played some teams, including Va teams, where neither the players or parents seem to understand that legal checking is allowed. On the other hand, they have also played a team or two where the coach is screaming at their players to swing at player’s heads. The first group is significantly larger than the second, and it seems that most refs will err on calling a legal check illegal than the reverse, at least in the middle school years.

As a parent of a middle schooler, I think that is the right balance. It’s a safety issue. Ideally, all refs would call illegal checking when it is and not call it when it isn’t. But, that’s not going to happen, so better to err on the side of preventing dangerous play.

Exactly. The equipment the girls use, a stick and a mouth guard, do nothing to prevent a dangerous play from exacting significant damage. If the play becomes much more aggressive then the girls will need pads and helmets like the boys. I think that would hurt the game. When girls lacrosse is played well it is a beautiful example of athleticism, skill, strategy, excellent hand-eye coordination, girls asserting themselves on the field and teamwork. The aggressive actions become more about size, threat and intimidation with an unhealthy mix of injuries with the growing potential for even more horrible outcomes.

There doesn't seem much we can do at a local level about the travel teams since they play teams from all over the country. However, there is a lot we can do at a local level with our high school and rec league teams to encourage and require that the games be played assertively while also playing safely with an emphasis on legal play. As parents I believe it is our responsibility to assert with coaches and refs that games be played safely and legally.

OMG. What a ridiculous and yet classic DMV parent response. This reactive attitude is not going to help our girls. The coaches and teams and programs in this area need to keep up with the national trends and style of play. We aren’t special. We don’t get to determine how girls lax is played. College programs determine the style and pace of change. If you don’t like the way girls lax is developing go start your own sport. Holding local girls back from becoming stronger, better, more aggressive and confident lacrosse players only hurts them. Being tougher and more aggressive does NOT have to equal more injuries or more protective equipment if the skills are taught properly. Stop treating our girls like it’s the 1950s and they are fragile, incapable flowers.

Bottom line is if a girl wants to play college lacrosse, and many many girls from our area DO, they need to be taught to play at the same level and with the same skill, intensity and grit as the best middle and high school programs around the country. Holding them back from playing this way will result in fewer and fewer girls making the move to top college programs. What is going on with Capital lacrosse right now is case-in-point.

Just reading this thread but as best I can tell no one has suggested the girls not be taught to play aggressive. It sounds like most agree the girls can learn to play more aggressively, but do so within the confines of the rules. Everyone seems to agree there are SOME teams, coaches, and players that may stretch the rules. Not all. If the USL decides to make changes to the rules that allow for some of the unsportsmanlike behavior mentioned then players will need to adjust or find a new sport to play. But right now the rules in place don't support overly aggressive dangerous play, which some on this thread clearly feel teams are exhibiting. The USL has the rules in place to protect the game and players. And keep the playing field level. The refs need to enforce the rules and be willing to call out those who don't follow them. Consistency seems to be an issue with refs from what I've seen at tournaments. You make a very good point in that the girls need to be taught properly. Properly is the key word because it seems some feel the coaches are not teaching their players properly; thus, the issue at hand. If girls are being penalized by colleges for playing within the rules and labeled as soft for doing so then that is a whole different topic the USL needs to address.

I have a daughter who is now playing college lacrosse and these same conversations occured 4-5 years ago. Rules have changed and are still changing like getting rid of crashing the circle on the draw. This is a difficult game to officiate as it is. I would not put this burden on the stripes. Think about this, many girls in HS play a lot of lacrosse for showcases and prospect days. These are more important to these players than a club tournament and the effort and intensity if high. However, there is not officials typically and they still manage to play the game without parents screaming at officials. The larger risk is lower skilled lacrosse in HS v. inexperienced teams. The top clubs typically know how to play. However, I do remember a Sky Walker coach who was an older man who screamed like crazy. The players seemed to like him but word was that he encouraged rough aggressive play and the team reflected it.

[Anonymous]

More aggressive play shouldn't include coaches instructing players to swing at player's heads on purpose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dd plays for a Baltimore team. Her team has definitely played some teams, including Va teams, where neither the players or parents seem to understand that legal checking is allowed. On the other hand, they have also played a team or two where the coach is screaming at their players to swing at player’s heads. The first group is significantly larger than the second, and it seems that most refs will err on calling a legal check illegal than the reverse, at least in the middle school years.

As a parent of a middle schooler, I think that is the right balance. It’s a safety issue. Ideally, all refs would call illegal checking when it is and not call it when it isn’t. But, that’s not going to happen, so better to err on the side of preventing dangerous play.

Exactly. The equipment the girls use, a stick and a mouth guard, do nothing to prevent a dangerous play from exacting significant damage. If the play becomes much more aggressive then the girls will need pads and helmets like the boys. I think that would hurt the game. When girls lacrosse is played well it is a beautiful example of athleticism, skill, strategy, excellent hand-eye coordination, girls asserting themselves on the field and teamwork. The aggressive actions become more about size, threat and intimidation with an unhealthy mix of injuries with the growing potential for even more horrible outcomes.

There doesn't seem much we can do at a local level about the travel teams since they play teams from all over the country. However, there is a lot we can do at a local level with our high school and rec league teams to encourage and require that the games be played assertively while also playing safely with an emphasis on legal play. As parents I believe it is our responsibility to assert with coaches and refs that games be played safely and legally.

OMG. What a ridiculous and yet classic DMV parent response. This reactive attitude is not going to help our girls. The coaches and teams and programs in this area need to keep up with the national trends and style of play. We aren’t special. We don’t get to determine how girls lax is played. College programs determine the style and pace of change. If you don’t like the way girls lax is developing go start your own sport. Holding local girls back from becoming stronger, better, more aggressive and confident lacrosse players only hurts them. Being tougher and more aggressive does NOT have to equal more injuries or more protective equipment if the skills are taught properly. Stop treating our girls like it’s the 1950s and they are fragile, incapable flowers.

Bottom line is if a girl wants to play college lacrosse, and many many girls from our area DO, they need to be taught to play at the same level and with the same skill, intensity and grit as the best middle and high school programs around the country. Holding them back from playing this way will result in fewer and fewer girls making the move to top college programs. What is going on with Capital lacrosse right now is case-in-point.

Just reading this thread but as best I can tell no one has suggested the girls not be taught to play aggressive. It sounds like most agree the girls can learn to play more aggressively, but do so within the confines of the rules. Everyone seems to agree there are SOME teams, coaches, and players that may stretch the rules. Not all. If the USL decides to make changes to the rules that allow for some of the unsportsmanlike behavior mentioned then players will need to adjust or find a new sport to play. But right now the rules in place don't support overly aggressive dangerous play, which some on this thread clearly feel teams are exhibiting. The USL has the rules in place to protect the game and players. And keep the playing field level. The refs need to enforce the rules and be willing to call out those who don't follow them. Consistency seems to be an issue with refs from what I've seen at tournaments. You make a very good point in that the girls need to be taught properly. Properly is the key word because it seems some feel the coaches are not teaching their players properly; thus, the issue at hand. If girls are being penalized by colleges for playing within the rules and labeled as soft for doing so then that is a whole different topic the USL needs to address.

I have a daughter who is now playing college lacrosse and these same conversations occured 4-5 years ago. Rules have changed and are still changing like getting rid of crashing the circle on the draw. This is a difficult game to officiate as it is. I would not put this burden on the stripes. Think about this, many girls in HS play a lot of lacrosse for showcases and prospect days. These are more important to these players than a club tournament and the effort and intensity if high. However, there is not officials typically and they still manage to play the game without parents screaming at officials. The larger risk is lower skilled lacrosse in HS v. inexperienced teams. The top clubs typically know how to play. However, I do remember a Sky Walker coach who was an older man who screamed like crazy. The players seemed to like him but word was that he encouraged rough aggressive play and the team reflected it.

Skywalkers still has its share of screamers, and higher than average attrition because of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are unwilling to post the name of the club exhibiting such behavior on an anonymous forum, you are either lying or contributing to the issue.

Yellow Jackets and M&D are two. Not all teams, of course.

What teams? Their coaches will be filmed during league play. If warranted, they will be reported to the league for appropriate disciplinary action.

Clearly you don’t know who runs the NGLL. Chris Robinson is not going to sanction his own teams.

And everyone knows how Yellow Jackets play. There isn’t going to be a “league” sanction.

[Anonymous]

YJ is definitely a team that comes top of mind when playing close to or beyond the rules. Without their overly aggressive play they are simply an average team. We've beaten them quite a few times where our athleticism and stick skills are just better. If you beat them in the transition with speed and good ball movement they can't settle into their overly aggressive style of play. Play aside, their parents may be the worst in all of sports. I've seen YJ fathers threaten to fight a group of opposing team moms simply because these moms were commenting on the dangerous play. Class act up there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:YJ is definitely a team that comes top of mind when playing close to or beyond the rules. Without their overly aggressive play they are simply an average team. We've beaten them quite a few times where our athleticism and stick skills are just better. If you beat them in the transition with speed and good ball movement they can't settle into their overly aggressive style of play. Play aside, their parents may be the worst in all of sports. I've seen YJ fathers threaten to fight a group of opposing team moms simply because these moms were commenting on the dangerous play. Class act up there.

Bottom line is that if you do not want to risk having a daughter play in this more aggressive style, do not enter into top tournament brackets and do not go after a slot on a top D1 team. Most of the girls if not all on M&D and YJ top teams along with Hero's Skywalkers, SJS, TG, ect... will be playing in college and play this style of lacrosse. As far a a coach actually instructing a player to deliberately strike another player in the head with full force with the purpose of taking her out due to concussion, this just does not happen. In the age of phones/camera in every hand, these high profile coaches would be caught and called out. Most have been coaching for many years, all year long. M&D coach ran the most successful HS team in history. To they play a more aggressive style? Yes, however expect more of the same if you want to continue to higher levels in the sport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:YJ is definitely a team that comes top of mind when playing close to or beyond the rules. Without their overly aggressive play they are simply an average team. We've beaten them quite a few times where our athleticism and stick skills are just better. If you beat them in the transition with speed and good ball movement they can't settle into their overly aggressive style of play. Play aside, their parents may be the worst in all of sports. I've seen YJ fathers threaten to fight a group of opposing team moms simply because these moms were commenting on the dangerous play. Class act up there.

Bottom line is that if you do not want to risk having a daughter play in this more aggressive style, do not enter into top tournament brackets and do not go after a slot on a top D1 team. Most of the girls if not all on M&D and YJ top teams along with Hero's Skywalkers, SJS, TG, ect... will be playing in college and play this style of lacrosse. As far a a coach actually instructing a player to deliberately strike another player in the head with full force with the purpose of taking her out due to concussion, this just does not happen. In the age of phones/camera in every hand, these high profile coaches would be caught and called out. Most have been coaching for many years, all year long. M&D coach ran the most successful HS team in history. To they play a more aggressive style? Yes, however expect more of the same if you want to continue to higher levels in the sport.

You need to read more carefully. A coach yelling at a player to swing near a head is not for the purposes of giving a concussion, but instead for the purposes of intimidating the girl with the ball by swing near, not at her head. This is not ok, and is not how the game is played at the college level. Something is really wrong with you if you seriously believe this is ok, and is not how everyone does it, it is a handful of teams within a handful of clubs. The issue is the coaching, not necessarily the players.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:YJ is definitely a team that comes top of mind when playing close to or beyond the rules. Without their overly aggressive play they are simply an average team. We've beaten them quite a few times where our athleticism and stick skills are just better. If you beat them in the transition with speed and good ball movement they can't settle into their overly aggressive style of play. Play aside, their parents may be the worst in all of sports. I've seen YJ fathers threaten to fight a group of opposing team moms simply because these moms were commenting on the dangerous play. Class act up there.

Bottom line is that if you do not want to risk having a daughter play in this more aggressive style, do not enter into top tournament brackets and do not go after a slot on a top D1 team. Most of the girls if not all on M&D and YJ top teams along with Hero's Skywalkers, SJS, TG, ect... will be playing in college and play this style of lacrosse. As far a a coach actually instructing a player to deliberately strike another player in the head with full force with the purpose of taking her out due to concussion, this just does not happen. In the age of phones/camera in every hand, these high profile coaches would be caught and called out. Most have been coaching for many years, all year long. M&D coach ran the most successful HS team in history. To they play a more aggressive style? Yes, however expect more of the same if you want to continue to higher levels in the sport.

You need to read more carefully. A coach yelling at a player to swing near a head is not for the purposes of giving a concussion, but instead for the purposes of intimidating the girl with the ball by swing near, not at her head. This is not ok, and is not how the game is played at the college level. Something is really wrong with you if you seriously believe this is ok, and is not how everyone does it, it is a handful of teams within a handful of clubs. The issue is the coaching, not necessarily the players.

You need to watch college lacrosse more carefully. Clearly more stick to head contact and close contact at the college level. In addition, your solution is simple, just have your daughter sit out games v. those teams if it concerns you. Better yet, try out for those teams that you can play for them not against them. I may have ad libbed a little when I mentioned the concussion word, but after all that is the concern. intimidating is mental. I know this is just a random post but in my opinion, your daughter will see more play like this as she continues in the sport. These same teams you mention will be well represented at UA tryouts, college prospect days, and on college rosters.

[Anonymous]

Have to agree with the last post. It's about playing within the rules. If colleges are opting to overlook the rules and penalize players who play within them that is an entirely different problem. Based on the forum it sounds like everyone agrees an aggressive style of play is the new norm. It's fun to watch when coached properly and played correctly. But as in life, there are rules and when SOME intentionally bend them it's not good or fair for anyone or the sport.

Quite a few team names keep getting dropped into the conversation. It sounds like YJ is the team that really takes aggressive play to another level. We have certainly played against and seen teams like M&D play aggressive, but they also play fair IMO. YJ players' styles don't seem fall too far from the tree of how their parents behave on the sidelines. Maybe this is the issue to address. And no rules need to be changed and no player needs to be coached to be overly aggressive. Simply put, if you exhibit poor sportsmanship as a parent, encourage unnecessary and dangerous behavior of players, and lash out at women who call your poor behavior out then maybe the sport isn't for you. Simply don't come and it will be more enjoyable for all.

To simply address this issue as get on board or get out is missing the point. It appears we are talking about one program in particular and possibly a few coaches and players within that program. Again, you don't let one apple ruin the bunch. Tournaments and refs should address the offenders, not preach to the rest to up their aggressiveness to almost illegal play or not play at all. Address those who break the rules with red cards (refs won't be right all the time) and ask parents to leave who can't behave. It was mentioned before, but being consistent in this approach is important. Telling little Susie to sit in the corner one time, but not enforce it another time won't change behavior.

Match the aggressive play with legal aggressive and intense play. Beat overly aggressive teams with fast transitions, quick ball movement, good stick skills, and pure athletic speed. This has been a formula I have seen work. Our local high school has had multiple girls sign D1 offers this past November and others commit for next year. And I suspect more offers are coming. I would not categorize their style of play as overly aggressive. Their transition, stick skills, and speed have been the difference in theirs and their team's success. Don't get me wrong, aggressive play is needed to win 50/50s and slow transitions, but I've yet to see aggression out run a well transitioned fast break pass.

[Anonymous]

It is interesting how what started as a New Girls Club has evolved to this topic but there are some interesting points. I will add that from a safety perspective, I feel the ACL tear is a greater concern to the game than hits to the head from wild defenders. Although both are bad. Lack of proper education on preventing tears and over training are a greater risk to young players than the Yellow Jackets of LI.

[Anonymous]

The bigger problem is how do we get DC area programs to teach girls to be more aggressive? Stars, Pride, Capital, etc... have teams that can't compete at the top level because the players aren't aggressive enough and are afraid of physical contact. Will we always have to give up and make the drive to Baltimore to get the best coaching?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have to agree with the last post. It's about playing within the rules. If colleges are opting to overlook the rules and penalize players who play within them that is an entirely different problem. Based on the forum it sounds like everyone agrees an aggressive style of play is the new norm. It's fun to watch when coached properly and played correctly. But as in life, there are rules and when SOME intentionally bend them it's not good or fair for anyone or the sport.

Quite a few team names keep getting dropped into the conversation. It sounds like YJ is the team that really takes aggressive play to another level. We have certainly played against and seen teams like M&D play aggressive, but they also play fair IMO. YJ players' styles don't seem fall too far from the tree of how their parents behave on the sidelines. Maybe this is the issue to address. And no rules need to be changed and no player needs to be coached to be overly aggressive. Simply put, if you exhibit poor sportsmanship as a parent, encourage unnecessary and dangerous behavior of players, and lash out at women who call your poor behavior out then maybe the sport isn't for you. Simply don't come and it will be more enjoyable for all.

To simply address this issue as get on board or get out is missing the point. It appears we are talking about one program in particular and possibly a few coaches and players within that program. Again, you don't let one apple ruin the bunch. Tournaments and refs should address the offenders, not preach to the rest to up their aggressiveness to almost illegal play or not play at all. Address those who break the rules with red cards (refs won't be right all the time) and ask parents to leave who can't behave. It was mentioned before, but being consistent in this approach is important. Telling little Susie to sit in the corner one time, but not enforce it another time won't change behavior.

Match the aggressive play with legal aggressive and intense play. Beat overly aggressive teams with fast transitions, quick ball movement, good stick skills, and pure athletic speed. This has been a formula I have seen work. Our local high school has had multiple girls sign D1 offers this past November and others commit for next year. And I suspect more offers are coming. I would not categorize their style of play as overly aggressive. Their transition, stick skills, and speed have been the difference in theirs and their team's success. Don't get me wrong, aggressive play is needed to win 50/50s and slow transitions, but I've yet to see aggression out run a well transitioned fast break pass.

Well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The bigger problem is how do we get DC area programs to teach girls to be more aggressive? Stars, Pride, Capital, etc... have teams that can't compete at the top level because the players aren't aggressive enough and are afraid of physical contact. Will we always have to give up and make the drive to Baltimore to get the best coaching?

I think you're missing the point. There is a difference between dangerous physically aggressive play that you seem to be advocating and giving credence VERSUS legal aggressive play. When the girls are outfitted to withstand physical contact then I will change my opinion but as it stands now they have a mouth guard and a stick. I think the dangerous physical play cheapens the game. It is the difference between a ballet and a brawl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:More aggressive play shouldn't include coaches instructing players to swing at player's heads on purpose.

+1