Haycock class changes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No other FCPS elementary allows parents to dictate how the school is run. Principals have wide latitude. Many would not even held a forum to discuss the changes before hand.

Except perhaps Chesterbrook and now they can't find a permanent Principal.

Our school lets about four parents dictate what happens at the school. That ends up far worse because it's playing favorites rather than a meeting that involves all parents. I really don't understand the issue people have with the parents. Things were going well and people were happy and now admin wants to make a change. Why shouldn't that be discussed with the entire school community? Maybe the parents shouldn't have a final say, but it should be out in the open that this change is happening.

+1. and they gave zero coherent reason for considering the change. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, or at least make a compelling argument that if something is working well, you're making a change that's going to make it even better. They did neither.

Actually, the notice stated the students are losing classroom instruction time due to the all changing rooms. They also said staying in one class would help strengthen the student-teacher relationship with the main teachers. Lastly, they noted that keeping the students in one room would be better for all learners.

Sure, those were the reasons that were given, and while they may have merit, they certainly don't clearly outweigh the benefits of the current system. If there were/are compelling reasons, then I'd love to hear them. Last night they tried to stand behind the resource teacher person and her seemingly random study (which that Bo guy took apart) to justify why they were doing it with no specifics, no metrics, and really, just opinion. It was bizarre to see such a major decision made with these as the drivers. Obviously what's worse is the roll out that the principal repeatedly regretted, though not enough to have apologized to the staff before this meeting. Even the physical location was extreme, all the teachers at one table, the admin with the random FCPS person in a circle at the front. What I found very telling was how the questions were eventually focused to the principal rather than any of the other admin folks as it was on him. This seemed to let the assistant principals free of responsibility, and I'm not sure if they actually supported the decision or were following along out of duty by presenting at the beginning.

Those are the reasons. Departmentalization is not best practice. Sorry you don't want to hear it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No other FCPS elementary allows parents to dictate how the school is run. Principals have wide latitude. Many would not even held a forum to discuss the changes before hand.

Except perhaps Chesterbrook and now they can't find a permanent Principal.

Our school lets about four parents dictate what happens at the school. That ends up far worse because it's playing favorites rather than a meeting that involves all parents. I really don't understand the issue people have with the parents. Things were going well and people were happy and now admin wants to make a change. Why shouldn't that be discussed with the entire school community? Maybe the parents shouldn't have a final say, but it should be out in the open that this change is happening.

+1. and they gave zero coherent reason for considering the change. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, or at least make a compelling argument that if something is working well, you're making a change that's going to make it even better. They did neither.

Actually, the notice stated the students are losing classroom instruction time due to the all changing rooms. They also said staying in one class would help strengthen the student-teacher relationship with the main teachers. Lastly, they noted that keeping the students in one room would be better for all learners.

Sure, those were the reasons that were given, and while they may have merit, they certainly don't clearly outweigh the benefits of the current system. If there were/are compelling reasons, then I'd love to hear them. Last night they tried to stand behind the resource teacher person and her seemingly random study (which that Bo guy took apart) to justify why they were doing it with no specifics, no metrics, and really, just opinion. It was bizarre to see such a major decision made with these as the drivers. Obviously what's worse is the roll out that the principal repeatedly regretted, though not enough to have apologized to the staff before this meeting. Even the physical location was extreme, all the teachers at one table, the admin with the random FCPS person in a circle at the front. What I found very telling was how the questions were eventually focused to the principal rather than any of the other admin folks as it was on him. This seemed to let the assistant principals free of responsibility, and I'm not sure if they actually supported the decision or were following along out of duty by presenting at the beginning.

Those are the reasons. Departmentalization is not best practice. Sorry you don't want to hear it.

Actually, very happy to hear it, if you'd explain it. "Departmentalization is not a best practice" doesn't mean anything. Tell me who says that? Why do they say that? What studies is it based on? Are there variables in "departmentalization"? What are the sample sizes in the studies? Where were the studies? Were this high performing schools? Were these schools in 1950? What ages? What types of schools? What is a "best practice"?

I'm guessing you also agree that "Keeping students in one room would be better for all learners"? Why is that? What kind of learners? What age are these learners? Why does it change in middle school, high school, college, etc etc etc etc etc etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No other FCPS elementary allows parents to dictate how the school is run. Principals have wide latitude. Many would not even held a forum to discuss the changes before hand.

Except perhaps Chesterbrook and now they can't find a permanent Principal.

Our school lets about four parents dictate what happens at the school. That ends up far worse because it's playing favorites rather than a meeting that involves all parents. I really don't understand the issue people have with the parents. Things were going well and people were happy and now admin wants to make a change. Why shouldn't that be discussed with the entire school community? Maybe the parents shouldn't have a final say, but it should be out in the open that this change is happening.

+1. and they gave zero coherent reason for considering the change. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, or at least make a compelling argument that if something is working well, you're making a change that's going to make it even better. They did neither.

Actually, the notice stated the students are losing classroom instruction time due to the all changing rooms. They also said staying in one class would help strengthen the student-teacher relationship with the main teachers. Lastly, they noted that keeping the students in one room would be better for all learners.

Sure, those were the reasons that were given, and while they may have merit, they certainly don't clearly outweigh the benefits of the current system. If there were/are compelling reasons, then I'd love to hear them. Last night they tried to stand behind the resource teacher person and her seemingly random study (which that Bo guy took apart) to justify why they were doing it with no specifics, no metrics, and really, just opinion. It was bizarre to see such a major decision made with these as the drivers. Obviously what's worse is the roll out that the principal repeatedly regretted, though not enough to have apologized to the staff before this meeting. Even the physical location was extreme, all the teachers at one table, the admin with the random FCPS person in a circle at the front. What I found very telling was how the questions were eventually focused to the principal rather than any of the other admin folks as it was on him. This seemed to let the assistant principals free of responsibility, and I'm not sure if they actually supported the decision or were following along out of duty by presenting at the beginning.

Those are the reasons. Departmentalization is not best practice. Sorry you don't want to hear it.

Actually, very happy to hear it, if you'd explain it. "Departmentalization is not a best practice" doesn't mean anything. Tell me who says that? Why do they say that? What studies is it based on? Are there variables in "departmentalization"? What are the sample sizes in the studies? Where were the studies? Were this high performing schools? Were these schools in 1950? What ages? What types of schools? What is a "best practice"?

I'm guessing you also agree that "Keeping students in one room would be better for all learners"? Why is that? What kind of learners? What age are these learners? Why does it change in middle school, high school, college, etc etc etc etc etc etc.

I am not the pp, but FCPS AAP office does not recommend "departmentalization" for younger grades.... i don't think they are against it or think it is a bad practice, but it is not considered a best practice for younger grades (under 6th grade). The movement in innovative education practices right now is on interdisciplinary learning and problem solving.

[Anonymous]

Link please? Why wouldn’t the admin just present that then? Shouldn’t the aap rep be all over that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Link please? Why wouldn’t the admin just present that then? Shouldn’t the aap rep be all over that?

Is this a decision that affects the entire school? I'm curious as to why you'd think the policy would have more credibility coming from the mouth of an "aap rep."

The AAP parents need to understand that they have their own credibility issues, because the perception is that AAP parents at Haycock will promote any policy that, at least on paper, appears to give their children an advantage over others from the first possible opportunity, regardless of whether it is based on sound research or pedagogy.

[Anonymous]

I cannot imagine a PTA meeting at my child's school devolving into someone filming the spectacle, people crying and whispering about getting the principal fired, and people yelling at the principal over a reasonable change. No other FCPS school has kids change subjects from 1st grade on like this.

There is this sense of entitlement Haycock parents seem to have about their child's public school education. Your child is not entitled to learn at what you consider the "ideal" pace/method for him personally. It's public education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I cannot imagine a PTA meeting at my child's school devolving into someone filming the spectacle, people crying and whispering about getting the principal fired, and people yelling at the principal over a reasonable change. No other FCPS school has kids change subjects from 1st grade on like this.

There is this sense of entitlement Haycock parents seem to have about their child's public school education. Your child is not entitled to learn at what you consider the "ideal" pace/method for him personally. It's public education.

Yeah, it doesn’t happen from 1st grade on at Haycock either. Since you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about, save your judgement re: Haycock parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot imagine a PTA meeting at my child's school devolving into someone filming the spectacle, people crying and whispering about getting the principal fired, and people yelling at the principal over a reasonable change. No other FCPS school has kids change subjects from 1st grade on like this.

There is this sense of entitlement Haycock parents seem to have about their child's public school education. Your child is not entitled to learn at what you consider the "ideal" pace/method for him personally. It's public education.

Yeah, it doesn’t happen from 1st grade on at Haycock either. Since you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about, save your judgement re: Haycock parents.

Posters on this thread said that. I guess they were wrong...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Link please? Why wouldn’t the admin just present that then? Shouldn’t the aap rep be all over that?

Is this a decision that affects the entire school? I'm curious as to why you'd think the policy would have more credibility coming from the mouth of an "aap rep."

The AAP parents need to understand that they have their own credibility issues, because the perception is that AAP parents at Haycock will promote any policy that, at least on paper, appears to give their children an advantage over others from the first possible opportunity, regardless of whether it is based on sound research or pedagogy.

I asked for the aap rep because the previous post referenced the FCPS AAP office. If that’s their policy, then they would stand behind it. And as FCPS, with their resources, I would guess they’d have plenty of edu consultants and research to support the decision regardless of whether it’s AAP or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot imagine a PTA meeting at my child's school devolving into someone filming the spectacle, people crying and whispering about getting the principal fired, and people yelling at the principal over a reasonable change. No other FCPS school has kids change subjects from 1st grade on like this.

There is this sense of entitlement Haycock parents seem to have about their child's public school education. Your child is not entitled to learn at what you consider the "ideal" pace/method for him personally. It's public education.

Yeah, it doesn’t happen from 1st grade on at Haycock either. Since you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about, save your judgement re: Haycock parents.

Posters on this thread said that. I guess they were wrong...

Yes, they were wrong, which is probably why it’s best to avoid making sweeping generalizations about an entire group of people based on information you’re reading on an anonymous forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I cannot imagine a PTA meeting at my child's school devolving into someone filming the spectacle, people crying and whispering about getting the principal fired, and people yelling at the principal over a reasonable change. No other FCPS school has kids change subjects from 1st grade on like this.

There is this sense of entitlement Haycock parents seem to have about their child's public school education. Your child is not entitled to learn at what you consider the "ideal" pace/method for him personally. It's public education.

Agree. Parents should definitely not care about their children’s education. Please shut up and just accept what they offer you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot imagine a PTA meeting at my child's school devolving into someone filming the spectacle, people crying and whispering about getting the principal fired, and people yelling at the principal over a reasonable change. No other FCPS school has kids change subjects from 1st grade on like this.

There is this sense of entitlement Haycock parents seem to have about their child's public school education. Your child is not entitled to learn at what you consider the "ideal" pace/method for him personally. It's public education.

Yeah, it doesn’t happen from 1st grade on at Haycock either. Since you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about, save your judgement re: Haycock parents.

Posters on this thread said that. I guess they were wrong...

Yes, they were wrong, which is probably why it’s best to avoid making sweeping generalizations about an entire group of people based on information you’re reading on an anonymous forum.

Either they were wrong or you are. It doesn't matter, since it's not going to be happening anymore, going forward.

Good luck on your goal of driving out your principal. I'm sure that will end well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot imagine a PTA meeting at my child's school devolving into someone filming the spectacle, people crying and whispering about getting the principal fired, and people yelling at the principal over a reasonable change. No other FCPS school has kids change subjects from 1st grade on like this.

There is this sense of entitlement Haycock parents seem to have about their child's public school education. Your child is not entitled to learn at what you consider the "ideal" pace/method for him personally. It's public education.

Yeah, it doesn’t happen from 1st grade on at Haycock either. Since you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about, save your judgement re: Haycock parents.

Posters on this thread said that. I guess they were wrong...

Yes, they were wrong, which is probably why it’s best to avoid making sweeping generalizations about an entire group of people based on information you’re reading on an anonymous forum.

DP here. By the same token, one could reasonably ask whether starting a thread on the same anonymous forum to bad-mouth the principal is the most appropriate way to raise awareness about the issue or promote an informed discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot imagine a PTA meeting at my child's school devolving into someone filming the spectacle, people crying and whispering about getting the principal fired, and people yelling at the principal over a reasonable change. No other FCPS school has kids change subjects from 1st grade on like this.

There is this sense of entitlement Haycock parents seem to have about their child's public school education. Your child is not entitled to learn at what you consider the "ideal" pace/method for him personally. It's public education.

Agree. Parents should definitely not care about their children’s education. Please shut up and just accept what they offer you.

The satire falls flat when you claim it’s about parents sticking up for the teachers, but most infer that the typical Haycock AAP parent would go after a teacher with an axe if that teacher ever gave their kid a less than glowing recommendation or a bad grade. Seriously, I think you have no idea how you make the school appear to others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot imagine a PTA meeting at my child's school devolving into someone filming the spectacle, people crying and whispering about getting the principal fired, and people yelling at the principal over a reasonable change. No other FCPS school has kids change subjects from 1st grade on like this.

There is this sense of entitlement Haycock parents seem to have about their child's public school education. Your child is not entitled to learn at what you consider the "ideal" pace/method for him personally. It's public education.

Agree. Parents should definitely not care about their children’s education. Please shut up and just accept what they offer you.

The satire falls flat when you claim it’s about parents sticking up for the teachers, but most infer that the typical Haycock AAP parent would go after a teacher with an axe if that teacher ever gave their kid a less than glowing recommendation or a bad grade. Seriously, I think you have no idea how you make the school appear to others.

It sounded more like sarcasm. Don’t see how anyone is “inferring” that parents are going after teachers. If the teachers were all on board with the change, this chat wouldn’t exist. The crux of the matter is that good teachers have been leaving and are continuing to leave because of the changes at the school and the “toxic environment” and “low morale” (direct quotes). The principal isn’t picking up on these things or isn’t caring to change it.