Why don't white students go to Banneker?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the white PPs just honestly find it impossible to believe that an all-black high school could be intellectually rigorous and successful at preparing students for top colleges.

I think the black PPs just honestly find it impossible to believe that Banneker is neither as intellectually rigorous nor as successful at preparing students for top colleges as other available options, especially for whites, Asians, Latinos and high SES blacks.

So be it.

Oh come on. Banneker is clearly doing something very right, given its college placement and AP results. Maybe it is not the same as TJ but that is not the question. The question is why don't any white parents, at all, even consider this very good school as compared to other good DC options like Walls and Wilson?

I don't understand the comparison to TJ. According to the latest stats, white people are shunning TJ, and the Asian population is increasingly dominant. So based on this thread, most of the whites who responded said that the school was not rigorous enough; the school was no TJ; and, the school reported too low SAT scores. Hmm, if that is truly the reason, why are whites also declining in enrollment at TJ?

Go find the SAT scores for TJ, compare them to Wilson and to Banneker, and you will see the answer.

No, that's not the answer to the question. White people are using SAT scores for their reasons to not send their children to Banneker. What is the reason for white people not sending their children to TJ, a largely Asian populated magnet school with great SAT scores?

You are a bit slow today, aren't you?

SAT scores at TJ are super high, showing it is a very competitive, race-blind, school. Many white students do try to get in; few do, because there's better qualified (often Asian) students.

SAT scores at Wilson are relatively high for a non-selective and super diverse school. Disclosure: my kids (Latino) will probably end up there.

SAT scores at Banneker at surprisingly low for a selective school. Why would whites (or other with better alternatives) send their kids there, unless for some reason they are looking for an all-black immersion experience?

[Anonymous]

I don't see why this is an issue. I've never heard a white family say "Gee, my child's educational experience would be so wonderful if only they could attend Banneker, but we just don't feel comfortable being an only"
Similarly, I don't see Banneker families crying that their school could be so much more if only more white students would attend.
Who is really bothered here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't see why this is an issue. I've never heard a white family say "Gee, my child's educational experience would be so wonderful if only they could attend Banneker, but we just don't feel comfortable being an only"
Similarly, I don't see Banneker families crying that their school could be so much more if only more white students would attend.
Who is really bothered here?

I guess there is no preference for banneker over Wilson? And hardly any white kids are graduating from neighborhood Middle Schools that do not feed Wilson? When will the latter change?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't see why this is an issue. I've never heard a white family say "Gee, my child's educational experience would be so wonderful if only they could attend Banneker, but we just don't feel comfortable being an only"
Similarly, I don't see Banneker families crying that their school could be so much more if only more white students would attend.
Who is really bothered here?

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see why this is an issue. I've never heard a white family say "Gee, my child's educational experience would be so wonderful if only they could attend Banneker, but we just don't feel comfortable being an only"
Similarly, I don't see Banneker families crying that their school could be so much more if only more white students would attend.
Who is really bothered here?

I guess there is no preference for banneker over Wilson? And hardly any white kids are graduating from neighborhood Middle Schools that do not feed Wilson? When will the latter change?

That USED to be true but it is changing with the demographics of the city

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see why this is an issue. I've never heard a white family say "Gee, my child's educational experience would be so wonderful if only they could attend Banneker, but we just don't feel comfortable being an only"
Similarly, I don't see Banneker families crying that their school could be so much more if only more white students would attend.
Who is really bothered here?

I guess there is no preference for banneker over Wilson? And hardly any white kids are graduating from neighborhood Middle Schools that do not feed Wilson? When will the latter change?

That USED to be true but it is changing with the demographics of the city

Right, capitol hill being the best example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see why this is an issue. I've never heard a white family say "Gee, my child's educational experience would be so wonderful if only they could attend Banneker, but we just don't feel comfortable being an only"
Similarly, I don't see Banneker families crying that their school could be so much more if only more white students would attend.
Who is really bothered here?

I guess there is no preference for banneker over Wilson? And hardly any white kids are graduating from neighborhood Middle Schools that do not feed Wilson? When will the latter change?

That USED to be true but it is changing with the demographics of the city

Right, capitol hill being the best example.

There are white kids graduating from SH? Jefferson? EH?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster. Looking forward to the article, Aaron.

Banneker is like its neighbor, Howard University. Excellent school, but an odd choice for a white student.

This thread has really gone off the rails. Can everyone please relax a little? The amount of racial angst on the internet, not just DCUM but all of the internet, has just become exhausting lately, and it's coming from all sides. It's good we're talking about this stuff but maybe take a breather sometimes.

The above quoted post was my first in this thread; this is my second. To me the question Aaron is asking has a pretty obvious answer, and we don't need to yell at each other. I tried to explain it concisely in my post above, and others have tried also, but maybe it still isn't clear.

In DC, most white people have at least a few options for high school. Not all white people, but most. This is as distinct from white people in, say, parts of Appalachia. Banneker is an option. But, for many white people in DC, Wilson is also an option, or Walls, or perhaps private, or various suburbs at all price ranges in which good to great high schools can be found and often with a majority white population.

Faced with these options, most white families will choose a high school that is well-regarded and that is populated by families that are more or less similar to their own, in terms of racial, income, educational, and other demographic aspects. This demographic desire usually means majority white or, like Wilson, significant minority white. This is not necessarily segregationist in intent, by the way. The USA is still majority white. Choosing a majority white school that still has a significant minority of non-white, is really just seeking USA-style diversity, and is understandable and usually benign. Segregationist behavior is seeking to avoid all non-white diversity in a school, neighborhood, etc.

So, a white family might consider Banneker, but is more likely to go to Wilson or Walls or, if this is not desired or not possible, move to the best suburb they can afford. In the same way that most white families would not encourage their children to attend historically black colleges. Even if such colleges may be good colleges. There are simply other, more appealing or more comfortable options out there.

In contrast, some black families in DC may have fewer options; Banneker may be the best of these. And some other black families in DC may have just as many or more options as white families do, but they may choose to send their children to an academically rigorous near-100% black high school like Banneker for many reasons. Perhaps some of the same reasons why historically black colleges are chosen.

It is not necessary or productive for people to accuse black parents at Banneker of reverse segregation (aka blacks excluding whites). This is likely to offend and inflame sensibilities, and it is very likely untrue for the majority of Banneker parents. I don't know but I imagine most Banneker parents would welcome whites to attend. To the extent that some Banneker parents desire a majority black school, it is probably for the benign reasons highlighted by the Cleveland poster above, i.e., an individual family's response to systemic discrimination. For example, a desire for black role models at the school, both teachers and students. Racialized groups seeking racial solidarity or same-race role models in response to racism against them is not, generally speaking, racist, in the same way that all-female networking events in a business context are not, generally speaking, sexist.

Maybe there is a percentage of Banneker parents who truly dislike whites and do not want them to attend, but I bet that this is a small percentage, and can we be so sure it is a larger percentage than the corresponding number of white parents at the majority-white schools who would desire to exclude blacks?

Well-said, pp. I don't agree with everything you said -- or maybe I would change the emphasis a bit -- but I think you captured a lot of what is actually happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Banneker was founded with the fairly modest aim of being a "college prep" high school, a place where good kids that were decent students could learn in a less disruptive environment than the standard DCPS high schools of the time. It was never meant to be a local version of TJ or Stuyvesant. As it is, it took a tremendous amount of political battling and comprising to get it approved in the face of opponents who saw the program as "elitist", and anything more "elite" never would have gotten past the school board of the era.

It does a good job of being the "college prep" school that it was meant to be, but it just isn't that impressive compared to Wilson or the average suburban public high school.

+1. It is essentially a glorified KIPP high school. Better than Ballou no doubt, yet way behind competitive private, Walls and even Wilson. It all depends on the options each student has.

Based on what? SAT scores? Everything else Banneker is going better. It is not a glorified KIPP. Have you ever been to KIPP or Banneker that you can make that statement? KIPP has been struggling b/c their kids can't stay in college. It's a military style approach. Banneker students are very successful in college and it's just an academically rigorous school. Not KIPP.

Agree with you pp. The earlier pps are just ignorant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see why this is an issue. I've never heard a white family say "Gee, my child's educational experience would be so wonderful if only they could attend Banneker, but we just don't feel comfortable being an only"
Similarly, I don't see Banneker families crying that their school could be so much more if only more white students would attend.
Who is really bothered here?

I guess there is no preference for banneker over Wilson? And hardly any white kids are graduating from neighborhood Middle Schools that do not feed Wilson? When will the latter change?

That USED to be true but it is changing with the demographics of the city

Right, capitol hill being the best example.

There are white kids graduating from SH? Jefferson? EH?

No, sorry, what I meant was that the Hill has the oldest white kids, and oldest white parents, outside of the Wilson boundary. The hill is the oldest white area of DC outside of upper NW. That's all I meant. So they have to deal with MS now, albeit few choose the schools you mention. The white people in the more recently gentrifying areas of DC skew younger, so they are more concerned with ES right now, and many are in PK or younger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Banneker was founded with the fairly modest aim of being a "college prep" high school, a place where good kids that were decent students could learn in a less disruptive environment than the standard DCPS high schools of the time. It was never meant to be a local version of TJ or Stuyvesant. As it is, it took a tremendous amount of political battling and comprising to get it approved in the face of opponents who saw the program as "elitist", and anything more "elite" never would have gotten past the school board of the era.

It does a good job of being the "college prep" school that it was meant to be, but it just isn't that impressive compared to Wilson or the average suburban public high school.

+1. It is essentially a glorified KIPP high school. Better than Ballou no doubt, yet way behind competitive private, Walls and even Wilson. It all depends on the options each student has.

Based on what? SAT scores? Everything else Banneker is going better. It is not a glorified KIPP. Have you ever been to KIPP or Banneker that you can make that statement? KIPP has been struggling b/c their kids can't stay in college. It's a military style approach. Banneker students are very successful in college and it's just an academically rigorous school. Not KIPP.

Agree with you pp. The earlier pps are just ignorant.

Yes, ignorant and racist and sexist and illiterate and stinky, too. Who dares point out that the emperor has no (well, few) clothes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's a topic that should be addressed in your piece – SAT scores. How does a selective admission school score below the national average on the SAT?

Below is data taken directly from the Banneker web site:
http://benjaminbanneker.k12.dc.us/about_bbahs.html

READING
DCPS 473
Banneker 496
National 496

MATH
DCPS 466
Banneker 506
National 514

WRITING
DCPS 461
Banneker 486
National 488

Since someone was asking about TJ, that equally selective high school not far from Banneker...let me add their SAT scores.

READING
TJ 723
Banneker 496
National 496

MATH
TJ 756
Banneker 506
National 514

WRITING
TJ 715
Banneker 486
National 488


Source: https://www.tjhsst.edu/abouttj/schoolprofile/docs/2013_14_TJHSST%20Profile.pdf


Notice the difference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the white PPs just honestly find it impossible to believe that an all-black high school could be intellectually rigorous and successful at preparing students for top colleges.

I think the black PPs just honestly find it impossible to believe that Banneker is neither as intellectually rigorous nor as successful at preparing students for top colleges as other available options, especially for whites, Asians, Latinos and high SES blacks.

So be it.

Oh come on. Banneker is clearly doing something very right, given its college placement and AP results. Maybe it is not the same as TJ but that is not the question. The question is why don't any white parents, at all, even consider this very good school as compared to other good DC options like Walls and Wilson?

I don't understand the comparison to TJ. According to the latest stats, white people are shunning TJ, and the Asian population is increasingly dominant. So based on this thread, most of the whites who responded said that the school was not rigorous enough; the school was no TJ; and, the school reported too low SAT scores. Hmm, if that is truly the reason, why are whites also declining in enrollment at TJ?

Go find the SAT scores for TJ, compare them to Wilson and to Banneker, and you will see the answer.

No, that's not the answer to the question. White people are using SAT scores for their reasons to not send their children to Banneker. What is the reason for white people not sending their children to TJ, a largely Asian populated magnet school with great SAT scores?

You are a bit slow today, aren't you?

SAT scores at TJ are super high, showing it is a very competitive, race-blind, school. Many white students do try to get in; few do, because there's better qualified (often Asian) students.

SAT scores at Wilson are relatively high for a non-selective and super diverse school. Disclosure: my kids (Latino) will probably end up there.

SAT scores at Banneker at surprisingly low for a selective school. Why would whites (or other with better alternatives) send their kids there, unless for some reason they are looking for an all-black immersion experience?

Yes, slow. To be clear. Banneker is not all black. They have a high Latino population. They also have Asian students. Again, if a great college is your end game, Banneker is it. If you are caught up into SAT scores - I don't know, you have so much attitude - why in God's name would you send them to Wilson. Wilson is nothing to write home about. I am inbounds to Wilson and my kid is afraid to go there. And I'm black.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a topic that should be addressed in your piece – SAT scores. How does a selective admission school score below the national average on the SAT?

Below is data taken directly from the Banneker web site:
http://benjaminbanneker.k12.dc.us/about_bbahs.html

READING
DCPS 473
Banneker 496
National 496

MATH
DCPS 466
Banneker 506
National 514

WRITING
DCPS 461
Banneker 486
National 488

Since someone was asking about TJ, that equally selective high school not far from Banneker...let me add their SAT scores.

READING
TJ 723
Banneker 496
National 496

MATH
TJ 756
Banneker 506
National 514

WRITING
TJ 715
Banneker 486
National 488


Source: https://www.tjhsst.edu/abouttj/schoolprofile/docs/2013_14_TJHSST%20Profile.pdf


Notice the difference?

So attend TJ then? No one is begging you to attend Banneker.

[Anonymous]

We will consider Banneker among other high schools when it is time for my white DD. She does well academically, is in a robotics club, and her best friends at her DCPS WOTP are mostly AA. A lot will depend on where her interests are by then. I'll be looking at what extras are available as well as the schools strengths as a college prep platform. She'll be heavily influenced by where her friends are going. Right now she is only in lower elementary! Honestly the lack of girls in STEM activities is as much of a problem as what race the kids are.