Fairfax County: McLean Citizens Association demands smaller class sizes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Another reason: Most of you do not realize just how little language some kids can have. I'm talking about English speaking kids. That's the main problem with the achievement gap. Early Childhood development.


Some of us grew up as poor immigrants and got over these humps after several years. I can understand why a school like Hybla Valley is failing. How can it possible not be with so many transient families living in tight quarters and a school site basically filled up with trailers. But a small school with ample resources like Bucknell should have been able to achieve success. There is a catholic school right down the street that gets very good reviews with tuition for each child between $5000-$10,000. Why is one achieving success and the other failing with over triple the resources?

The kids start WAY behind. Even the English speaking kids. Also, Bucknell has a high mobility rate--transients in and out.

Weird. The area also has a pool next door that's in division 6 for NVSL this summer along with Mantua, Mosby Woods, and Greenbriar. Mostly white kids. I guess they swim well but don't know how to talk.

Newly immigrated children do not usually swim in NVSL.

[Anonymous]

True, but the fact that the pool and the church, and the convent is in this neighborhood of mostly duplexes and single family homes gives the aura that it's relatively safe neighborhood. There are some areas of Fairfax where you look at 50 apartment buildings in a row and wonder how those buildings were ever all approved next to each other. This area isn't like that.

[Anonymous]

Bucknell's boundaries are being redrawn. Don't expect classes that small or empty classroom for long.

[Anonymous]

True, but the fact that the pool and the church, and the convent is in this neighborhood of mostly duplexes and single family homes gives the aura that it's relatively safe neighborhood. There are some areas of Fairfax where you look at 50 apartment buildings in a row and wonder how those buildings were ever all approved next to each other. This area isn't like that.

Look at the free and reduced lunch stats. Not good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

True, but the fact that the pool and the church, and the convent is in this neighborhood of mostly duplexes and single family homes gives the aura that it's relatively safe neighborhood. There are some areas of Fairfax where you look at 50 apartment buildings in a row and wonder how those buildings were ever all approved next to each other. This area isn't like that.

Look at the free and reduced lunch stats. Not good.

Yes. It's a title one school. As discussed in earlier posts, it has more than enough resources to compensate. It doesn't mean it has to fail. Look at the test scores. In 3rd grade, very few failed the reading test. In 6th, almost half the class failed. In mathematics, less kids fail than some of the highest ranking schools in FCPS. There is something about language arts standards that either the teachers are not teaching or the parents are not understanding how to help their children. There needs to be some analysis on what is actually causing these schools to fail instead of just raising up our hands saying it's doomed because it's a high FARMs school or throwing money and resources at the school hoping it improves.

[Anonymous]

In 3rd grade, very few failed the reading test. In 6th, almost half the class failed

This is where the mobility rate can come in. Did those sixth graders pass the test when they were in third grade? Were they even at the school then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

In 3rd grade, very few failed the reading test. In 6th, almost half the class failed

This is where the mobility rate can come in. Did those sixth graders pass the test when they were in third grade? Were they even at the school then?

I don't think the mobility rate is a huge factor. This year it's showing one child increase in 6th grade. There could be more changes with someone dropping and someone adding, but the change isn't high. I'm noticing a lot of schools have low language arts pass rates, even ones that aren't title 1. Perhaps the standards have just been raised above what most bilingual children can handle or there just isn't enough emphasis on this subject within FCPS or this particular school. If FCPS can figure out how to teach to a low title one population school like this one, then they can probably have better success in the larger schools like Hybla Valley.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Didn't Greg Brandon try unsuccessfully to get one of the Democratic endorsements for an at-large seat last time? He's in Dranesville.

My sense of Epstein is that she always has to be the smartest person in the room. She does know the FCPS budget very well. She also knows all there is to know about AAP and then some. But, as this thread shows, some of her crowd have no political savvy. No one would be attacking the MCA if they'd just adopted a resolution that called for caps on class size and emphasized how big some of the classes are in McLean. Instead, they went the extra mile and called for minimum class sizes as well. By focusing on the "disparity" of class sizes and the "unfairness" of the current staffing formula, they diverted attention from whether some classes are too big, and invited a larger, open-ended debate on the most privileged and neediest groups in the county.

You are far too kind. It's not that Louise Epstein's crowd has "no political savvy." They believe this stuff. They believe they are the ones who are ignored and discriminated against. These are far right-wingers, and they have no tolerance for anyone who doesn't share their views. They are engaging in class warfare. They want to rile up the base. They know exactly what they're doing. Don't let them get away with it! Nobody with these kinds of views should be elected, and if she was she would have ZERO ability to get anything done. Classic political move: "These guys are idiots. They won't deliver for you. But I will." Please. I don't care who they run against Epstein -- just vote for the other guy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't Greg Brandon try unsuccessfully to get one of the Democratic endorsements for an at-large seat last time? He's in Dranesville.

My sense of Epstein is that she always has to be the smartest person in the room. She does know the FCPS budget very well. She also knows all there is to know about AAP and then some. But, as this thread shows, some of her crowd have no political savvy. No one would be attacking the MCA if they'd just adopted a resolution that called for caps on class size and emphasized how big some of the classes are in McLean. Instead, they went the extra mile and called for minimum class sizes as well. By focusing on the "disparity" of class sizes and the "unfairness" of the current staffing formula, they diverted attention from whether some classes are too big, and invited a larger, open-ended debate on the most privileged and neediest groups in the county.

You are far too kind. It's not that Louise Epstein's crowd has "no political savvy." They believe this stuff. They believe they are the ones who are ignored and discriminated against. These are far right-wingers, and they have no tolerance for anyone who doesn't share their views. They are engaging in class warfare. They want to rile up the base. They know exactly what they're doing. Don't let them get away with it! Nobody with these kinds of views should be elected, and if she was she would have ZERO ability to get anything done. Classic political move: "These guys are idiots. They won't deliver for you. But I will." Please. I don't care who they run against Epstein -- just vote for the other guy.

You make zero sense. If anyone has no tolerance who doesn't share the same views, it appears to be you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In 3rd grade, very few failed the reading test. In 6th, almost half the class failed

This is where the mobility rate can come in. Did those sixth graders pass the test when they were in third grade? Were they even at the school then?

I don't think the mobility rate is a huge factor. This year it's showing one child increase in 6th grade. There could be more changes with someone dropping and someone adding, but the change isn't high. I'm noticing a lot of schools have low language arts pass rates, even ones that aren't title 1. Perhaps the standards have just been raised above what most bilingual children can handle or there just isn't enough emphasis on this subject within FCPS or this particular school. If FCPS can figure out how to teach to a low title one population school like this one, then they can probably have better success in the larger schools like Hybla Valley.

Do you understand what those numbers mean? The 24% mobility rate from a previous year means that 24% of the makeup of the student body changed throughout the year. That same year, according to the "Membership History" figures on the FCPS website shows a net increase of 6 kids. That means they had 6 kids more than they did at the beginning of the school year. That does not mean that only 6 kids changed during the school year. The mobility rate is twice as high as the FCPS average. It is indeed high. And is likely a factor. Based on the schools population, the mobility rate means that about 69 kids out of 290 total changed throughout the school year - that's an enormous change. And chances are, the kids moving in have not been coming from the high performing schools like those in McLean.

Just remember, FCPS doesn't want failing schools, so they spend more money and reduce the class sizes in schools that aren't meeting the standards as one tool. Stop and think about what would happen if they didn't and the schools fail and are taken over by the state. Is that what you want? For kids to be in schools that are performing at even lower standards? And for the teachers at these schools to have an even harder challenge than they do now?

If you can't think about the kids in these areas that have a tougher life than your kids do or the teachers who teach them, then maybe think of it another way: Wouldn't schools being taken over by the state hurt FCPS's reputation? And, in turn, wouldn't that hurt your kid's school's reputation, too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't Greg Brandon try unsuccessfully to get one of the Democratic endorsements for an at-large seat last time? He's in Dranesville.

My sense of Epstein is that she always has to be the smartest person in the room. She does know the FCPS budget very well. She also knows all there is to know about AAP and then some. But, as this thread shows, some of her crowd have no political savvy. No one would be attacking the MCA if they'd just adopted a resolution that called for caps on class size and emphasized how big some of the classes are in McLean. Instead, they went the extra mile and called for minimum class sizes as well. By focusing on the "disparity" of class sizes and the "unfairness" of the current staffing formula, they diverted attention from whether some classes are too big, and invited a larger, open-ended debate on the most privileged and neediest groups in the county.

You are far too kind. It's not that Louise Epstein's crowd has "no political savvy." They believe this stuff. They believe they are the ones who are ignored and discriminated against. These are far right-wingers, and they have no tolerance for anyone who doesn't share their views. They are engaging in class warfare. They want to rile up the base. They know exactly what they're doing. Don't let them get away with it! Nobody with these kinds of views should be elected, and if she was she would have ZERO ability to get anything done. Classic political move: "These guys are idiots. They won't deliver for you. But I will." Please. I don't care who they run against Epstein -- just vote for the other guy.

I am at a point where Epstein is a more palatable alternative than Straus and I am a bleeding heart tree hugging liberal. Run someone ELSE and I will vote for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In 3rd grade, very few failed the reading test. In 6th, almost half the class failed

This is where the mobility rate can come in. Did those sixth graders pass the test when they were in third grade? Were they even at the school then?

I don't think the mobility rate is a huge factor. This year it's showing one child increase in 6th grade. There could be more changes with someone dropping and someone adding, but the change isn't high. I'm noticing a lot of schools have low language arts pass rates, even ones that aren't title 1. Perhaps the standards have just been raised above what most bilingual children can handle or there just isn't enough emphasis on this subject within FCPS or this particular school. If FCPS can figure out how to teach to a low title one population school like this one, then they can probably have better success in the larger schools like Hybla Valley.

Do you understand what those numbers mean? The 24% mobility rate from a previous year means that 24% of the makeup of the student body changed throughout the year. That same year, according to the "Membership History" figures on the FCPS website shows a net increase of 6 kids. That means they had 6 kids more than they did at the beginning of the school year. That does not mean that only 6 kids changed during the school year. The mobility rate is twice as high as the FCPS average. It is indeed high. And is likely a factor. Based on the schools population, the mobility rate means that about 69 kids out of 290 total changed throughout the school year - that's an enormous change. And chances are, the kids moving in have not been coming from the high performing schools like those in McLean.

Just remember, FCPS doesn't want failing schools, so they spend more money and reduce the class sizes in schools that aren't meeting the standards as one tool. Stop and think about what would happen if they didn't and the schools fail and are taken over by the state. Is that what you want? For kids to be in schools that are performing at even lower standards? And for the teachers at these schools to have an even harder challenge than they do now?

If you can't think about the kids in these areas that have a tougher life than your kids do or the teachers who teach them, then maybe think of it another way: Wouldn't schools being taken over by the state hurt FCPS's reputation? And, in turn, wouldn't that hurt your kid's school's reputation, too?

In any school especially one that draws military there will be some mobility. Can you not understand why a special needs student in a small school brings down the test score percentage more in a small school than a large school? Can you not understand that a military family brings up the mobility rate in a small school more than a large school? Percentages are misleading. I have been posting because I do want these failing schools to succeed but if you have been pouring in money at three times the rate of a non title one school plus taking federal money plus taking county money to improve things and you are getting big gains in one area and not much in another it would make sense to focus on the area that needs improvement verses just throwing money in a non specific way and hoping things will improve.

[Anonymous]

In any school especially one that draws military there will be some mobility.

Are there many military kids at this school? Somehow, even with proximity to Belvoir, I doubt it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

In any school especially one that draws military there will be some mobility.

Are there many military kids at this school? Somehow, even with proximity to Belvoir, I doubt it.

I would bet money that there are very few Military children at Bucknell. It isn't even that close. Typical base allowance for housing pay can get you a rental in a much nicer neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

In any school especially one that draws military there will be some mobility.

Are there many military kids at this school? Somehow, even with proximity to Belvoir, I doubt it.

I think it is safe to assume there is a higher % of military children at the school because of its proximity to Ft Belvoir and the relative affordability of homes in its boundary. Its mobility rate is quite high for our district, which already has a high mobility rate. It has a high % of ESL students and a high percentage of FRL students. It's special needs population is also equally high for the district. All of those factors contribute the fact that Bucknell has a much high population (as a % of its students) of harder to teach students. It is easy to get high scores in schools that have fewer students (as a %) in any of those categories. Mobility compounds all of the other hurdles as you are starting over at zero with a high % of students every year in every grade. If we tested in September and agin in June with the students that were there all year, I think you would see significant improvement.

I think if you compare other schools with similar demographics outside of FCPS, you will find that the test scores are very good.