DC traffic cameras issued 3.3 MILLION tickets last year

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Actually it is.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

Accidents and fatalities are much higher in majority black zip codes. Should city officials defer to those who break the law or those who are victimized by law breakers?

The underlying problem is that road infrastructure is generally much more conducive to speeding in black majority zip codes. The solution is more traffic calming etc..

Accidents and fatalities are rare in every section of the city. The city should not bombard people with tickets that cost them lots of money and make no difference to accident rates.

No one is bombarding you. You are actively breaking the law. You can choose to stop.

It would make more sense if we just had the cops give out the tickets. So many of the camera tickets are bullshit-y foot fault tickets. It's just harassment.

The cops do not give a crap. They never did.

And what the is a foot fault ticket?? Did you follow the law or not? Sounds like no, but you want to whine about it

A lot of the tickets are for trivial offenses. For example you stopped at a stop sign, but the nose of your car was beyond the stop sign pole when you stopped, so they say you didnt stop at the stop sign.

The stop sign cameras record your speed going over the line and will automatically cancel the ticket if it's under a certain speed, specifically to avoid this situation. If the automatic cancellation doesn't happen for some reason you can appeal and presuming you were actually just inching over the line your ticket will be dismissed because they have not only your speed recorded but a video of the infraction that a human can review for an appeal.

People love to say "oh I was just doing this reasonable thing and the mean old speed camera punished me!" But in reality it's usually either a straight up lie or they have an utter lack of self-awareness of what they are doing in their vehicle, rolling through the stop sign at 8mph but in their mind they "barely inched over."

It would be great if it actually worked like this, but that hasn't been my experience at all. Most of the traffic camera tickets I have ever gotten (and there's been a few) are penny ante complaints about how I stopped but not in precisely the right place because my bumper was over the crosswalk or something.

That is literally how it works. It's right there on the DDOT website if you had ever bothered to take 2 seconds to look it up:

Drivers must come to a complete stop prior to the stop bar at an intersection controlled by a stop sign or traffic signal. This allows the driver to look around and ensure that they have the right of way before continuing. The stop signs units use radar to detect if a vehicle stopped at, rolled through, or ran a stop sign. Tickets will be issued when vehicles fail to make a complete stop at a stop signs.

The stop sign enforcement camera system predicts using advance algorithms, when a stop sign violation is occurring and captures the violation event with digital camera and high-resolution video.

Step 1 The first image of the violation is taken BEFORE the vehicle passes the stop line.
Step 2 The second image is taken AFTER the vehicle passes the stop line.
Step 3 The license plate is taken from a close-up of the images captured.
Step 4 In addition, a high-resolution video of the violation event is captured as a validation tool.
Step 5 Additional data collected includes the time, date, speed, location, lane, and direction of the travel.

https://asc.ddot.dc.gov/

They send you a video when you get a ticket. No one needs to look anything up. You can see how silly the tickets are in the video they send you.

If the ticket is "silly," i.e. not video evidence of you breaking the law and deservedly getting the ticket, then you can easily get the ticket dismissed.

If the ticket is in fact video evidence of you breaking the law then the ticket is not "silly."

So what's the problem?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Where's the evidence that traffic cameras reduce accidents? DC has increasing ticketing by almost 10 times. Where's the corresponding reduction in traffic deaths?

The evidence was provided to you several pages back. But you reject it because it destroys your thesis. You are this website’s most boring broken record.

No one has provided any evidence. That's the issue.

If there were evidence, it would be obvious by now. The city has increased ticketing by nearly 1000 percent over the past decade, and issues enough tickets each year to hit every driver in the city multiple times, and yet accident rates are no better than they were 10 years ago.

it's not just that handing out a billion traffic tickets isn't making a difference, it's literally everything dot is doing isn't making a difference.

Another factor is that, during COVID people started driving through DC like bats out of hell. Dialing that back requires significant action.

I'll take things that never happened for $200, Alex.

The number of speeding related deaths in DC is pretty much the same every single year since forever.

Where in the world do you actually live?

Almost all traffic deaths are caused by speed, regardless of whether speeding is listed as the "primary cause" by the attending officer or not. I believe the physics behind this have been explained to you many times over the past few years, but yet you continue to peddle nonsense.

That is not true. There's a whole range of reasons for traffic deaths. Typically about one-third involve speeding.

I trust that you understand the distinction between speed and speeding even if you pretend not to.

A driver can veer off I-95, hit a barricade at 70mph, and die. Speeding was not a factor in the crash, but speed sure as he was.

But we're talking about DC after all and there are only a handful of DC roads where the speed limit exceeds 25mph. Impacts at 25mph or less are rarely fatal, but the probability of a road user dying as a result of a crash increases markedly at speeds above that. It is thus highly probable that speeding was a factor contributing to any fatalities that occur on roads with speed limits of 25mph or less.

Yeah, that's like saying leaving your home is a contributing factor to traffic fatalities because none of the fatalities would have happened if people had just stayed home.

What the hell is this nonsense? You sound like the kind of person who would argue that short skirts cause sexual assault.

Pedestrians should have the right to walk down the street or - heaven forbid - cross the street without having their lives threatened by those who speed. whether those drivers are focused on the road, actively texting, staring at their Apple Play screen, or whistling Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah of their a$&holes.

And the DC government has a responsibility to uphold the safety of its residents and those visiting the city. Which it does by using speed cameras to deter speeding.

If you need evidence of the difference that speed cameras make, Google “James Evert Anderson”. James was a 16 year old who lived in Kensington, MD. He was killed on Sunday while crossing University Boulevard West. There was a speed camera at the location, which was recently removed. One local resident reports that, in the absence of the camera, drivers regularly speed at “50 or 60 on a 30 mph road”. Had drivers stuck to the speed limit, James Evert Anderson would still be alive today.

The only problem, as others have mentioned, is that there aren’t enough speed cameras. DC has about 8,000 city blocks and less than 500 speed cameras, so drivers are free to speed across 99.9% of the city without any plausible risk of being sanctioned for their speeding. That is just nuts.

Putting traffic cameras everywhere, giving everyone a ticket for everything, and making traffic a nightmare has not done anything at all to reduce traffic deaths. Look at the data.

I just looked at the data. Right here: https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/traffic-data

Traffic fatalities have fallen 61% year-on-year.

This is right after they doubled the number of traffic cameras in 2024 and right after the DC Attorney General started suing car owners with outstanding camera fines.

How inconvenient for you.

Are you stupid or just dishonest? That's not because of the cameras. That's because of Trump's crackdown on the city. Every crime stat is way down. You may have heard about how no one is going to restaurants and how businesses are getting killed. It's because people have been afraid to go out. Turns out if you stay home, there's fewer car accidents (and murders and robberies).

This is top-shelf comedy.

So your hypothesis is that traffic fatalities were tracking 2024 levels, then the crackdown begins in early August, and then about 20 people who would have needed to have died before that for 2025 fatalities to track 2024 fatalities magically came back to life?

Or was it that, starting at the beginning of the year, DC drivers anticipated the crackdown that would start eight months thence and decided to adjust their driving behavior in advance just to be sure?

[Anonymous]

Do those cameras send traffic tickets to these guys?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Actually it is.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

Accidents and fatalities are much higher in majority black zip codes. Should city officials defer to those who break the law or those who are victimized by law breakers?

The underlying problem is that road infrastructure is generally much more conducive to speeding in black majority zip codes. The solution is more traffic calming etc..

Accidents and fatalities are rare in every section of the city. The city should not bombard people with tickets that cost them lots of money and make no difference to accident rates.

No one is bombarding you. You are actively breaking the law. You can choose to stop.

It would make more sense if we just had the cops give out the tickets. So many of the camera tickets are bullshit-y foot fault tickets. It's just harassment.

The cops do not give a crap. They never did.

And what the is a foot fault ticket?? Did you follow the law or not? Sounds like no, but you want to whine about it

A lot of the tickets are for trivial offenses. For example you stopped at a stop sign, but the nose of your car was beyond the stop sign pole when you stopped, so they say you didnt stop at the stop sign.

The stop sign cameras record your speed going over the line and will automatically cancel the ticket if it's under a certain speed, specifically to avoid this situation. If the automatic cancellation doesn't happen for some reason you can appeal and presuming you were actually just inching over the line your ticket will be dismissed because they have not only your speed recorded but a video of the infraction that a human can review for an appeal.

People love to say "oh I was just doing this reasonable thing and the mean old speed camera punished me!" But in reality it's usually either a straight up lie or they have an utter lack of self-awareness of what they are doing in their vehicle, rolling through the stop sign at 8mph but in their mind they "barely inched over."

It would be great if it actually worked like this, but that hasn't been my experience at all. Most of the traffic camera tickets I have ever gotten (and there's been a few) are penny ante complaints about how I stopped but not in precisely the right place because my bumper was over the crosswalk or something.

That is literally how it works. It's right there on the DDOT website if you had ever bothered to take 2 seconds to look it up:

Drivers must come to a complete stop prior to the stop bar at an intersection controlled by a stop sign or traffic signal. This allows the driver to look around and ensure that they have the right of way before continuing. The stop signs units use radar to detect if a vehicle stopped at, rolled through, or ran a stop sign. Tickets will be issued when vehicles fail to make a complete stop at a stop signs.

The stop sign enforcement camera system predicts using advance algorithms, when a stop sign violation is occurring and captures the violation event with digital camera and high-resolution video.

Step 1 The first image of the violation is taken BEFORE the vehicle passes the stop line.
Step 2 The second image is taken AFTER the vehicle passes the stop line.
Step 3 The license plate is taken from a close-up of the images captured.
Step 4 In addition, a high-resolution video of the violation event is captured as a validation tool.
Step 5 Additional data collected includes the time, date, speed, location, lane, and direction of the travel.

https://asc.ddot.dc.gov/

They send you a video when you get a ticket. No one needs to look anything up. You can see how silly the tickets are in the video they send you.

If the ticket is "silly," i.e. not video evidence of you breaking the law and deservedly getting the ticket, then you can easily get the ticket dismissed.

If the ticket is in fact video evidence of you breaking the law then the ticket is not "silly."

So what's the problem?

Tickets have increased 10 fold. They doubled in the past year alone. Last year there 3.3 million tickets for a city of 700,000. Speeding deaths have not gone down at all, despite the massive increase in ticketing. How is that possible? Lots and lots of tickets for trivial offenses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do those cameras send traffic tickets to these guys?

Nobody gives tickets to those guys

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2025/09/03/dc-car-crash-text-experiment/

I thought this story was really interesting. They sent warnings to drivers who they identified as high risk based on camera violations. The warnings didn’t work, but it says they correctly identified 65% of the cars involved in collisions over a 12 month period.

I don’t totally get what that statistic meant but given that collisions involve two vehicles and often only one is at fault, that seems like a crazy high success rate.

I think the evolution of the cameras should be from revenue stream to identifying and restricting dangerous drivers. But I know that will cause a lot of privacy/due process problems. To me though, we already heavily regulate who can drive and under what terms and it feels like we should be taking more of those drivers off the road rather than just fining them.

For VA and MD drivers they should be sending that study over to the VA and MD officials. They've refused ticket reciprocity with VA and MD but frankly need to acknowledge that those bad drivers are liable to be a danger to themselves and others on VA and MD streets. It's not just an "annoying DC traffic cameras" issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do those cameras send traffic tickets to these guys?

Nobody gives tickets to those guys

They should track them by drone or other mechanism to figure out their patterns, like where they gather to plan their ride, where they stop for gas and so on. Or use drones to identify the ringleaders and follow them home.

[Anonymous]

If traffic cameras improved safety, revenue would decrease annually and eventually reach zero. The fact that DC collects millions in revenue is proof cameras are ineffective.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Actually it is.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

Accidents and fatalities are much higher in majority black zip codes. Should city officials defer to those who break the law or those who are victimized by law breakers?

The underlying problem is that road infrastructure is generally much more conducive to speeding in black majority zip codes. The solution is more traffic calming etc..

Accidents and fatalities are rare in every section of the city. The city should not bombard people with tickets that cost them lots of money and make no difference to accident rates.

No one is bombarding you. You are actively breaking the law. You can choose to stop.

It would make more sense if we just had the cops give out the tickets. So many of the camera tickets are bullshit-y foot fault tickets. It's just harassment.

The cops do not give a crap. They never did.

And what the is a foot fault ticket?? Did you follow the law or not? Sounds like no, but you want to whine about it

A lot of the tickets are for trivial offenses. For example you stopped at a stop sign, but the nose of your car was beyond the stop sign pole when you stopped, so they say you didnt stop at the stop sign.

The stop sign cameras record your speed going over the line and will automatically cancel the ticket if it's under a certain speed, specifically to avoid this situation. If the automatic cancellation doesn't happen for some reason you can appeal and presuming you were actually just inching over the line your ticket will be dismissed because they have not only your speed recorded but a video of the infraction that a human can review for an appeal.

People love to say "oh I was just doing this reasonable thing and the mean old speed camera punished me!" But in reality it's usually either a straight up lie or they have an utter lack of self-awareness of what they are doing in their vehicle, rolling through the stop sign at 8mph but in their mind they "barely inched over."

It would be great if it actually worked like this, but that hasn't been my experience at all. Most of the traffic camera tickets I have ever gotten (and there's been a few) are penny ante complaints about how I stopped but not in precisely the right place because my bumper was over the crosswalk or something.

That is literally how it works. It's right there on the DDOT website if you had ever bothered to take 2 seconds to look it up:

Drivers must come to a complete stop prior to the stop bar at an intersection controlled by a stop sign or traffic signal. This allows the driver to look around and ensure that they have the right of way before continuing. The stop signs units use radar to detect if a vehicle stopped at, rolled through, or ran a stop sign. Tickets will be issued when vehicles fail to make a complete stop at a stop signs.

The stop sign enforcement camera system predicts using advance algorithms, when a stop sign violation is occurring and captures the violation event with digital camera and high-resolution video.

Step 1 The first image of the violation is taken BEFORE the vehicle passes the stop line.
Step 2 The second image is taken AFTER the vehicle passes the stop line.
Step 3 The license plate is taken from a close-up of the images captured.
Step 4 In addition, a high-resolution video of the violation event is captured as a validation tool.
Step 5 Additional data collected includes the time, date, speed, location, lane, and direction of the travel.

https://asc.ddot.dc.gov/

They send you a video when you get a ticket. No one needs to look anything up. You can see how silly the tickets are in the video they send you.

If the ticket is "silly," i.e. not video evidence of you breaking the law and deservedly getting the ticket, then you can easily get the ticket dismissed.

If the ticket is in fact video evidence of you breaking the law then the ticket is not "silly."

So what's the problem?

Tickets have increased 10 fold. They doubled in the past year alone. Last year there 3.3 million tickets for a city of 700,000. Speeding deaths have not gone down at all, despite the massive increase in ticketing. How is that possible? Lots and lots of tickets for trivial offenses.

You picked the wrong year to make this argument. Traffic deaths are down 60% year-on-year after the number of cameras were doubled last year. You need to find a new hobby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Actually it is.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

Accidents and fatalities are much higher in majority black zip codes. Should city officials defer to those who break the law or those who are victimized by law breakers?

The underlying problem is that road infrastructure is generally much more conducive to speeding in black majority zip codes. The solution is more traffic calming etc..

Accidents and fatalities are rare in every section of the city. The city should not bombard people with tickets that cost them lots of money and make no difference to accident rates.

No one is bombarding you. You are actively breaking the law. You can choose to stop.

It would make more sense if we just had the cops give out the tickets. So many of the camera tickets are bullshit-y foot fault tickets. It's just harassment.

The cops do not give a crap. They never did.

And what the is a foot fault ticket?? Did you follow the law or not? Sounds like no, but you want to whine about it

A lot of the tickets are for trivial offenses. For example you stopped at a stop sign, but the nose of your car was beyond the stop sign pole when you stopped, so they say you didnt stop at the stop sign.

The stop sign cameras record your speed going over the line and will automatically cancel the ticket if it's under a certain speed, specifically to avoid this situation. If the automatic cancellation doesn't happen for some reason you can appeal and presuming you were actually just inching over the line your ticket will be dismissed because they have not only your speed recorded but a video of the infraction that a human can review for an appeal.

People love to say "oh I was just doing this reasonable thing and the mean old speed camera punished me!" But in reality it's usually either a straight up lie or they have an utter lack of self-awareness of what they are doing in their vehicle, rolling through the stop sign at 8mph but in their mind they "barely inched over."

It would be great if it actually worked like this, but that hasn't been my experience at all. Most of the traffic camera tickets I have ever gotten (and there's been a few) are penny ante complaints about how I stopped but not in precisely the right place because my bumper was over the crosswalk or something.

That is literally how it works. It's right there on the DDOT website if you had ever bothered to take 2 seconds to look it up:

Drivers must come to a complete stop prior to the stop bar at an intersection controlled by a stop sign or traffic signal. This allows the driver to look around and ensure that they have the right of way before continuing. The stop signs units use radar to detect if a vehicle stopped at, rolled through, or ran a stop sign. Tickets will be issued when vehicles fail to make a complete stop at a stop signs.

The stop sign enforcement camera system predicts using advance algorithms, when a stop sign violation is occurring and captures the violation event with digital camera and high-resolution video.

Step 1 The first image of the violation is taken BEFORE the vehicle passes the stop line.
Step 2 The second image is taken AFTER the vehicle passes the stop line.
Step 3 The license plate is taken from a close-up of the images captured.
Step 4 In addition, a high-resolution video of the violation event is captured as a validation tool.
Step 5 Additional data collected includes the time, date, speed, location, lane, and direction of the travel.

https://asc.ddot.dc.gov/

They send you a video when you get a ticket. No one needs to look anything up. You can see how silly the tickets are in the video they send you.

If the ticket is "silly," i.e. not video evidence of you breaking the law and deservedly getting the ticket, then you can easily get the ticket dismissed.

If the ticket is in fact video evidence of you breaking the law then the ticket is not "silly."

So what's the problem?

Tickets have increased 10 fold. They doubled in the past year alone. Last year there 3.3 million tickets for a city of 700,000. Speeding deaths have not gone down at all, despite the massive increase in ticketing. How is that possible? Lots and lots of tickets for trivial offenses.

You picked the wrong year to make this argument. Traffic deaths are down 60% year-on-year after the number of cameras were doubled last year. You need to find a new hobby.

The number of speeding related deaths have gone up and down each year, without any clear pattern. If increasing tickets by 10 times over the past decade actually made a difference, you'd see a pattern.

2023: 22
2022: 9
2021: 12
2020: 15
2019: 10
2018: 9
2017: 12
2016: 8
2015: 11
2014: 12
2013: 11

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Actually it is.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

Accidents and fatalities are much higher in majority black zip codes. Should city officials defer to those who break the law or those who are victimized by law breakers?

The underlying problem is that road infrastructure is generally much more conducive to speeding in black majority zip codes. The solution is more traffic calming etc..

Accidents and fatalities are rare in every section of the city. The city should not bombard people with tickets that cost them lots of money and make no difference to accident rates.

No one is bombarding you. You are actively breaking the law. You can choose to stop.

It would make more sense if we just had the cops give out the tickets. So many of the camera tickets are bullshit-y foot fault tickets. It's just harassment.

The cops do not give a crap. They never did.

And what the is a foot fault ticket?? Did you follow the law or not? Sounds like no, but you want to whine about it

A lot of the tickets are for trivial offenses. For example you stopped at a stop sign, but the nose of your car was beyond the stop sign pole when you stopped, so they say you didnt stop at the stop sign.

The stop sign cameras record your speed going over the line and will automatically cancel the ticket if it's under a certain speed, specifically to avoid this situation. If the automatic cancellation doesn't happen for some reason you can appeal and presuming you were actually just inching over the line your ticket will be dismissed because they have not only your speed recorded but a video of the infraction that a human can review for an appeal.

People love to say "oh I was just doing this reasonable thing and the mean old speed camera punished me!" But in reality it's usually either a straight up lie or they have an utter lack of self-awareness of what they are doing in their vehicle, rolling through the stop sign at 8mph but in their mind they "barely inched over."

It would be great if it actually worked like this, but that hasn't been my experience at all. Most of the traffic camera tickets I have ever gotten (and there's been a few) are penny ante complaints about how I stopped but not in precisely the right place because my bumper was over the crosswalk or something.

That is literally how it works. It's right there on the DDOT website if you had ever bothered to take 2 seconds to look it up:

Drivers must come to a complete stop prior to the stop bar at an intersection controlled by a stop sign or traffic signal. This allows the driver to look around and ensure that they have the right of way before continuing. The stop signs units use radar to detect if a vehicle stopped at, rolled through, or ran a stop sign. Tickets will be issued when vehicles fail to make a complete stop at a stop signs.

The stop sign enforcement camera system predicts using advance algorithms, when a stop sign violation is occurring and captures the violation event with digital camera and high-resolution video.

Step 1 The first image of the violation is taken BEFORE the vehicle passes the stop line.
Step 2 The second image is taken AFTER the vehicle passes the stop line.
Step 3 The license plate is taken from a close-up of the images captured.
Step 4 In addition, a high-resolution video of the violation event is captured as a validation tool.
Step 5 Additional data collected includes the time, date, speed, location, lane, and direction of the travel.

https://asc.ddot.dc.gov/

They send you a video when you get a ticket. No one needs to look anything up. You can see how silly the tickets are in the video they send you.

If the ticket is "silly," i.e. not video evidence of you breaking the law and deservedly getting the ticket, then you can easily get the ticket dismissed.

If the ticket is in fact video evidence of you breaking the law then the ticket is not "silly."

So what's the problem?

Tickets have increased 10 fold. They doubled in the past year alone. Last year there 3.3 million tickets for a city of 700,000. Speeding deaths have not gone down at all, despite the massive increase in ticketing. How is that possible? Lots and lots of tickets for trivial offenses.

You picked the wrong year to make this argument. Traffic deaths are down 60% year-on-year after the number of cameras were doubled last year. You need to find a new hobby.

Correlation. Based on the other data, it's clear something else caused the reduction. But I am sure others will cherry pick this data point in order to double the number of cameras again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Actually it is.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

Accidents and fatalities are much higher in majority black zip codes. Should city officials defer to those who break the law or those who are victimized by law breakers?

The underlying problem is that road infrastructure is generally much more conducive to speeding in black majority zip codes. The solution is more traffic calming etc..

Accidents and fatalities are rare in every section of the city. The city should not bombard people with tickets that cost them lots of money and make no difference to accident rates.

No one is bombarding you. You are actively breaking the law. You can choose to stop.

It would make more sense if we just had the cops give out the tickets. So many of the camera tickets are bullshit-y foot fault tickets. It's just harassment.

The cops do not give a crap. They never did.

And what the is a foot fault ticket?? Did you follow the law or not? Sounds like no, but you want to whine about it

A lot of the tickets are for trivial offenses. For example you stopped at a stop sign, but the nose of your car was beyond the stop sign pole when you stopped, so they say you didnt stop at the stop sign.

The stop sign cameras record your speed going over the line and will automatically cancel the ticket if it's under a certain speed, specifically to avoid this situation. If the automatic cancellation doesn't happen for some reason you can appeal and presuming you were actually just inching over the line your ticket will be dismissed because they have not only your speed recorded but a video of the infraction that a human can review for an appeal.

People love to say "oh I was just doing this reasonable thing and the mean old speed camera punished me!" But in reality it's usually either a straight up lie or they have an utter lack of self-awareness of what they are doing in their vehicle, rolling through the stop sign at 8mph but in their mind they "barely inched over."

It would be great if it actually worked like this, but that hasn't been my experience at all. Most of the traffic camera tickets I have ever gotten (and there's been a few) are penny ante complaints about how I stopped but not in precisely the right place because my bumper was over the crosswalk or something.

That is literally how it works. It's right there on the DDOT website if you had ever bothered to take 2 seconds to look it up:

Drivers must come to a complete stop prior to the stop bar at an intersection controlled by a stop sign or traffic signal. This allows the driver to look around and ensure that they have the right of way before continuing. The stop signs units use radar to detect if a vehicle stopped at, rolled through, or ran a stop sign. Tickets will be issued when vehicles fail to make a complete stop at a stop signs.

The stop sign enforcement camera system predicts using advance algorithms, when a stop sign violation is occurring and captures the violation event with digital camera and high-resolution video.

Step 1 The first image of the violation is taken BEFORE the vehicle passes the stop line.
Step 2 The second image is taken AFTER the vehicle passes the stop line.
Step 3 The license plate is taken from a close-up of the images captured.
Step 4 In addition, a high-resolution video of the violation event is captured as a validation tool.
Step 5 Additional data collected includes the time, date, speed, location, lane, and direction of the travel.

https://asc.ddot.dc.gov/

They send you a video when you get a ticket. No one needs to look anything up. You can see how silly the tickets are in the video they send you.

If the ticket is "silly," i.e. not video evidence of you breaking the law and deservedly getting the ticket, then you can easily get the ticket dismissed.

If the ticket is in fact video evidence of you breaking the law then the ticket is not "silly."

So what's the problem?

Tickets have increased 10 fold. They doubled in the past year alone. Last year there 3.3 million tickets for a city of 700,000. Speeding deaths have not gone down at all, despite the massive increase in ticketing. How is that possible? Lots and lots of tickets for trivial offenses.

You picked the wrong year to make this argument. Traffic deaths are down 60% year-on-year after the number of cameras were doubled last year. You need to find a new hobby.

The number of speeding related deaths have gone up and down each year, without any clear pattern. If increasing tickets by 10 times over the past decade actually made a difference, you'd see a pattern.

2023: 22
2022: 9
2021: 12
2020: 15
2019: 10
2018: 9
2017: 12
2016: 8
2015: 11
2014: 12
2013: 11

You can keep posting lies and I will keep calling you out for the liar that you are. You know that these numbers do not include many people killed by speeding drivers and yet you continue to claim otherwise. Why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Actually it is.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

Accidents and fatalities are much higher in majority black zip codes. Should city officials defer to those who break the law or those who are victimized by law breakers?

The underlying problem is that road infrastructure is generally much more conducive to speeding in black majority zip codes. The solution is more traffic calming etc..

Accidents and fatalities are rare in every section of the city. The city should not bombard people with tickets that cost them lots of money and make no difference to accident rates.

No one is bombarding you. You are actively breaking the law. You can choose to stop.

It would make more sense if we just had the cops give out the tickets. So many of the camera tickets are bullshit-y foot fault tickets. It's just harassment.

The cops do not give a crap. They never did.

And what the is a foot fault ticket?? Did you follow the law or not? Sounds like no, but you want to whine about it

A lot of the tickets are for trivial offenses. For example you stopped at a stop sign, but the nose of your car was beyond the stop sign pole when you stopped, so they say you didnt stop at the stop sign.

The stop sign cameras record your speed going over the line and will automatically cancel the ticket if it's under a certain speed, specifically to avoid this situation. If the automatic cancellation doesn't happen for some reason you can appeal and presuming you were actually just inching over the line your ticket will be dismissed because they have not only your speed recorded but a video of the infraction that a human can review for an appeal.

People love to say "oh I was just doing this reasonable thing and the mean old speed camera punished me!" But in reality it's usually either a straight up lie or they have an utter lack of self-awareness of what they are doing in their vehicle, rolling through the stop sign at 8mph but in their mind they "barely inched over."

It would be great if it actually worked like this, but that hasn't been my experience at all. Most of the traffic camera tickets I have ever gotten (and there's been a few) are penny ante complaints about how I stopped but not in precisely the right place because my bumper was over the crosswalk or something.

That is literally how it works. It's right there on the DDOT website if you had ever bothered to take 2 seconds to look it up:

Drivers must come to a complete stop prior to the stop bar at an intersection controlled by a stop sign or traffic signal. This allows the driver to look around and ensure that they have the right of way before continuing. The stop signs units use radar to detect if a vehicle stopped at, rolled through, or ran a stop sign. Tickets will be issued when vehicles fail to make a complete stop at a stop signs.

The stop sign enforcement camera system predicts using advance algorithms, when a stop sign violation is occurring and captures the violation event with digital camera and high-resolution video.

Step 1 The first image of the violation is taken BEFORE the vehicle passes the stop line.
Step 2 The second image is taken AFTER the vehicle passes the stop line.
Step 3 The license plate is taken from a close-up of the images captured.
Step 4 In addition, a high-resolution video of the violation event is captured as a validation tool.
Step 5 Additional data collected includes the time, date, speed, location, lane, and direction of the travel.

https://asc.ddot.dc.gov/

They send you a video when you get a ticket. No one needs to look anything up. You can see how silly the tickets are in the video they send you.

If the ticket is "silly," i.e. not video evidence of you breaking the law and deservedly getting the ticket, then you can easily get the ticket dismissed.

If the ticket is in fact video evidence of you breaking the law then the ticket is not "silly."

So what's the problem?

Tickets have increased 10 fold. They doubled in the past year alone. Last year there 3.3 million tickets for a city of 700,000. Speeding deaths have not gone down at all, despite the massive increase in ticketing. How is that possible? Lots and lots of tickets for trivial offenses.

You picked the wrong year to make this argument. Traffic deaths are down 60% year-on-year after the number of cameras were doubled last year. You need to find a new hobby.

The number of speeding related deaths have gone up and down each year, without any clear pattern. If increasing tickets by 10 times over the past decade actually made a difference, you'd see a pattern.

2023: 22
2022: 9
2021: 12
2020: 15
2019: 10
2018: 9
2017: 12
2016: 8
2015: 11
2014: 12
2013: 11

You can keep posting lies and I will keep calling you out for the liar that you are. You know that these numbers do not include many people killed by speeding drivers and yet you continue to claim otherwise. Why?

You can look them up yourself. They come from the DC police department. The reports are here: https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/mpd-annual-reports

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Actually it is.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

Accidents and fatalities are much higher in majority black zip codes. Should city officials defer to those who break the law or those who are victimized by law breakers?

The underlying problem is that road infrastructure is generally much more conducive to speeding in black majority zip codes. The solution is more traffic calming etc..

Accidents and fatalities are rare in every section of the city. The city should not bombard people with tickets that cost them lots of money and make no difference to accident rates.

No one is bombarding you. You are actively breaking the law. You can choose to stop.

It would make more sense if we just had the cops give out the tickets. So many of the camera tickets are bullshit-y foot fault tickets. It's just harassment.

The cops do not give a crap. They never did.

And what the is a foot fault ticket?? Did you follow the law or not? Sounds like no, but you want to whine about it

A lot of the tickets are for trivial offenses. For example you stopped at a stop sign, but the nose of your car was beyond the stop sign pole when you stopped, so they say you didnt stop at the stop sign.

The stop sign cameras record your speed going over the line and will automatically cancel the ticket if it's under a certain speed, specifically to avoid this situation. If the automatic cancellation doesn't happen for some reason you can appeal and presuming you were actually just inching over the line your ticket will be dismissed because they have not only your speed recorded but a video of the infraction that a human can review for an appeal.

People love to say "oh I was just doing this reasonable thing and the mean old speed camera punished me!" But in reality it's usually either a straight up lie or they have an utter lack of self-awareness of what they are doing in their vehicle, rolling through the stop sign at 8mph but in their mind they "barely inched over."

It would be great if it actually worked like this, but that hasn't been my experience at all. Most of the traffic camera tickets I have ever gotten (and there's been a few) are penny ante complaints about how I stopped but not in precisely the right place because my bumper was over the crosswalk or something.

That is literally how it works. It's right there on the DDOT website if you had ever bothered to take 2 seconds to look it up:

Drivers must come to a complete stop prior to the stop bar at an intersection controlled by a stop sign or traffic signal. This allows the driver to look around and ensure that they have the right of way before continuing. The stop signs units use radar to detect if a vehicle stopped at, rolled through, or ran a stop sign. Tickets will be issued when vehicles fail to make a complete stop at a stop signs.

The stop sign enforcement camera system predicts using advance algorithms, when a stop sign violation is occurring and captures the violation event with digital camera and high-resolution video.

Step 1 The first image of the violation is taken BEFORE the vehicle passes the stop line.
Step 2 The second image is taken AFTER the vehicle passes the stop line.
Step 3 The license plate is taken from a close-up of the images captured.
Step 4 In addition, a high-resolution video of the violation event is captured as a validation tool.
Step 5 Additional data collected includes the time, date, speed, location, lane, and direction of the travel.

https://asc.ddot.dc.gov/

They send you a video when you get a ticket. No one needs to look anything up. You can see how silly the tickets are in the video they send you.

If the ticket is "silly," i.e. not video evidence of you breaking the law and deservedly getting the ticket, then you can easily get the ticket dismissed.

If the ticket is in fact video evidence of you breaking the law then the ticket is not "silly."

So what's the problem?

Tickets have increased 10 fold. They doubled in the past year alone. Last year there 3.3 million tickets for a city of 700,000. Speeding deaths have not gone down at all, despite the massive increase in ticketing. How is that possible? Lots and lots of tickets for trivial offenses.

You picked the wrong year to make this argument. Traffic deaths are down 60% year-on-year after the number of cameras were doubled last year. You need to find a new hobby.

You're cherry picking based on a single obvious outlier. The amount of traffic deaths has remarkably stayed in the same range for well over a decade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know there's almost no stop sign cameras west of the park? I wonder how that happens....

There's 17 speed cameras in Ward 3. In Ward 7, there's almost 60.

Listing this without listing data on accidents or fatalities isn’t that useful.
Traffic accidents, injuries, and fatalities are FAR higher in ward 7 than 3. This isn’t the racist “gotcha” that you think it is.

Actually it is.

https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most

Accidents and fatalities are much higher in majority black zip codes. Should city officials defer to those who break the law or those who are victimized by law breakers?

The underlying problem is that road infrastructure is generally much more conducive to speeding in black majority zip codes. The solution is more traffic calming etc..

Accidents and fatalities are rare in every section of the city. The city should not bombard people with tickets that cost them lots of money and make no difference to accident rates.

No one is bombarding you. You are actively breaking the law. You can choose to stop.

It would make more sense if we just had the cops give out the tickets. So many of the camera tickets are bullshit-y foot fault tickets. It's just harassment.

The cops do not give a crap. They never did.

And what the is a foot fault ticket?? Did you follow the law or not? Sounds like no, but you want to whine about it

A lot of the tickets are for trivial offenses. For example you stopped at a stop sign, but the nose of your car was beyond the stop sign pole when you stopped, so they say you didnt stop at the stop sign.

The stop sign cameras record your speed going over the line and will automatically cancel the ticket if it's under a certain speed, specifically to avoid this situation. If the automatic cancellation doesn't happen for some reason you can appeal and presuming you were actually just inching over the line your ticket will be dismissed because they have not only your speed recorded but a video of the infraction that a human can review for an appeal.

People love to say "oh I was just doing this reasonable thing and the mean old speed camera punished me!" But in reality it's usually either a straight up lie or they have an utter lack of self-awareness of what they are doing in their vehicle, rolling through the stop sign at 8mph but in their mind they "barely inched over."

It would be great if it actually worked like this, but that hasn't been my experience at all. Most of the traffic camera tickets I have ever gotten (and there's been a few) are penny ante complaints about how I stopped but not in precisely the right place because my bumper was over the crosswalk or something.

That is literally how it works. It's right there on the DDOT website if you had ever bothered to take 2 seconds to look it up:

Drivers must come to a complete stop prior to the stop bar at an intersection controlled by a stop sign or traffic signal. This allows the driver to look around and ensure that they have the right of way before continuing. The stop signs units use radar to detect if a vehicle stopped at, rolled through, or ran a stop sign. Tickets will be issued when vehicles fail to make a complete stop at a stop signs.

The stop sign enforcement camera system predicts using advance algorithms, when a stop sign violation is occurring and captures the violation event with digital camera and high-resolution video.

Step 1 The first image of the violation is taken BEFORE the vehicle passes the stop line.
Step 2 The second image is taken AFTER the vehicle passes the stop line.
Step 3 The license plate is taken from a close-up of the images captured.
Step 4 In addition, a high-resolution video of the violation event is captured as a validation tool.
Step 5 Additional data collected includes the time, date, speed, location, lane, and direction of the travel.

https://asc.ddot.dc.gov/

They send you a video when you get a ticket. No one needs to look anything up. You can see how silly the tickets are in the video they send you.

If the ticket is "silly," i.e. not video evidence of you breaking the law and deservedly getting the ticket, then you can easily get the ticket dismissed.

If the ticket is in fact video evidence of you breaking the law then the ticket is not "silly."

So what's the problem?

Tickets have increased 10 fold. They doubled in the past year alone. Last year there 3.3 million tickets for a city of 700,000. Speeding deaths have not gone down at all, despite the massive increase in ticketing. How is that possible? Lots and lots of tickets for trivial offenses.

You picked the wrong year to make this argument. Traffic deaths are down 60% year-on-year after the number of cameras were doubled last year. You need to find a new hobby.

Correlation. Based on the other data, it's clear something else caused the reduction. But I am sure others will cherry pick this data point in order to double the number of cameras again.

Do you understand that vehicular crashes can have multiple causes or don’t you?

Here you posit that other changes in other factors drove the reduction in traffic fatalities. Yet in the post immediately before this, you argue that it is clear that traffic cameras aren’t working because “speeding deaths” aren’t perfectly correlated with the increase in traffic cameras.

Please make up your mind.

I’m also very confused as to what type of evidence would convince you that traffic cameras are contributing to a reduction in traffic deaths.

There are multiple peer-reviewed scientific studies that demonstrate that cameras reduce traffic fatalities. These have been posted in this thread and you dismissed them as not being relevant because they were not done in DC.

Yet you now dismiss DC-specific evidence - which include the massive reduction in traffic fatalities the year after the number of cameras were doubled as well as evidence showing that traffic cameras reduce vehicle speed - as not being rigorous enough.

I think it’s very clear to the rest of us that either you are lying to yourself or to everyone else. That is, you cannot bear the idea that you could possibly be wrong and so dismiss any evidence - no matter how convincing - that undermines your opinion or you know you are wrong, but do not want to admit it.