Are you putting all your friends through a political-purity test right now?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:No, but admittedly last night was rough because one couple we are friends with did vote for Trump and they and their kids cheered when he came on the screen and the rest of us sort of froze. We knew they voted for him. We argued about stuff during COVID. But honestly we had kind of left it alone recently because we have had bigger fish to fry with other issues and things going on in our lives. They know none of us voted for him. They know we all disagree with them on pretty much everything. So it was just uncomfortable for a minute and then we moved on. But I thought about it this morning when I woke up for some reason. I think it makes me feel gross but at the end of the day they are good people and good friends and we do enjoy their company so I think, for me, I am going to continue to not discuss it and not let it affect our friendship. If they were more outspoken or obnoxious about it I would probably feel different, but last night was the first time other than an Instagram post on Inauguration Day that I was reminded that they voted for him, and I don't believe that cutting them off as friends is going to change anything about the sh!t show that is currently happening.

Good people vote to take away human rights from you and your children? Good people vote for rapists and people who are actively trying to harm everyone except white males?
Okay...

I'm so sick of people like you. I'm the PP, and I abhor Trump but I'm not such a small-minded moron that I can't see past who some people voted for. Yes, they're good people. The fact that they voted for Trump doesn't erase everything else they've ever done in their lives. Of course I'm uncomfortable and unhappy with their politics, but that doesn't mean I want to erase years and years of good friendship.

I bet you have people you are friends with who voted for Trump but would never tell you. Your insistence that you wouldn't ever engage with a Trumper is ridiculous - I bet you do all the time and you either ignore it because the relationship benefits you or you have no idea because they don't feel like arguing with you. Do you ask your car mechanic who they voted for? Your dry cleaner? Your cleaning company? Your boss and all your co-workers? Are you going to ask all the teachers at your kids' school? Of course not. But keep on spewing your ridiculousness on an anonymous board I guess. I hate that I'm aligned with people like you. We are not the same even if we voted for the same person.

NP. That poster is quite direct, but the questions are worth asking. If you were to sit down with those friends and ask them point blank to explain to you why they felt it was OK to vote for someone who was hell bent on taking rights away from people and ignoring our constitutional framework of governing, wouldn't that feel fundamental to how someone is as a person? I get it, I have friends who are traditional Republicans, and I have some who I thought were friends who are full on Trumpers. I've been posing questions such as these to them, and they are unwilling to engage - I don't pound it over their heads, I'll ask once, if they're unwilling I drop it. And them. Because if they don't have the courage of their convictions, I simply no longer respect them. They won't even try to explain it? That means they're cowards. Why should I sweep that under the rug? That's how we got here - too many of us normalized really abnormal and harmful behavior. I do in fact have the courage of my convictions, as friends with disabilities have literally cried to me that they're being blamed for a frickin' plane crash, and Black friends who literally said they feel they are less than human to this administration. I can't voluntarily spend time with someone who is part of why that is true, and glad about it.

So you're saying that who someone voted for is who they are as a person? There are no other factors at play? Nothing about who they've been for 50 years? I will not spend time with someone who says racist things (already cut that friend and her husband out) or laughs at federal employees losing their jobs or actively celebrates what this administration is doing. But I won't stop being friends with someone who voted for Trump even if I have lost respect for them. But you do you.

Assuming you are the same PP, you are taking the easy way out. You aren't asking them about it at all, just avoiding it, and unless you hear something blatantly racist, you are just live and let live about it. And that's your choice. But if I was that kind of person, I would not have the kind of close friendships that I do with many women of color. They know I have their back, and don't go along to get along. They are more important to me than some 50 year old who is nice to me,but has voted for a felon who sexually assaults women, separates families, destroys the US govt literally and gives access to all our data to a megalomaniac. People who voted for him for should be ashamed.

I'm also a former fed, DH is a fed and I have two daughters. They would not respect me if I had close friends like that and just ignored the elephant in the room. Especially given how he treats women and young girls. If I can't confront a friend, how do I model to them how to stick up for themselves in this soon to be dystopian future? Our daughters are watching as their rights are being ripped away...

Have you asked all the teachers and administrators at your child's school who they voted for? Your hairstylist? The person bagging your groceries? Your doctor and dentist? You must, right? Because you wouldn't give your business/support/money to anyone who voted for him obviously.

Since my kids' teachers are currently being censored, I absolutely know where they stand. They are in fear. My hairdresser fears her son is being radicalized on TikTok, and we bag our own groceries. Our doctor is German and anti-fascist. And knowing that T-Mobile is using Starlink, I am looking for a new cell provider before Elmo takes over all cellular services.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:No, but admittedly last night was rough because one couple we are friends with did vote for Trump and they and their kids cheered when he came on the screen and the rest of us sort of froze. We knew they voted for him. We argued about stuff during COVID. But honestly we had kind of left it alone recently because we have had bigger fish to fry with other issues and things going on in our lives. They know none of us voted for him. They know we all disagree with them on pretty much everything. So it was just uncomfortable for a minute and then we moved on. But I thought about it this morning when I woke up for some reason. I think it makes me feel gross but at the end of the day they are good people and good friends and we do enjoy their company so I think, for me, I am going to continue to not discuss it and not let it affect our friendship. If they were more outspoken or obnoxious about it I would probably feel different, but last night was the first time other than an Instagram post on Inauguration Day that I was reminded that they voted for him, and I don't believe that cutting them off as friends is going to change anything about the sh!t show that is currently happening.

no 👏 they're 👏 not 👏

THIS. This is what structural racism looks like. These people are nice to YOU and YOUR FAMILY. Cool cool. But they vote to oppress others and cause them harm.

Well, as a woman, and as someone with two daughters, and as someone whose husband is a federal employee (which I used to be), no, the person they voted for isn't nice to me or my family.

But I should stop being friends with them because...then next time they won't vote for a Republican? Um, ok. It amazes me the kind of power you people think you have over others. You think by not spending time with anyone who voted for Trump you're doing any good? Keep patting yourself on the back, but you're not winning any awards by pretending to be friends only with liberals.

I don't think I have power over anyone. But Trump is a test of character, and people who applaud him in front of me are not people I want to give my time to. In my book, they aren't good people, even if I used to think they were. Is there nothing someone could do to change your view of their morality? Because that is what this is all about. Clearly your redline is different, and people may or may not judge you for it. Obviously you judge people like me for not associating with fascists. I am okay with that and can sleep at night.

Obviously there are things someone could do that would make me cut them off. If these friends made racist comments, laughed at the federal employees I know who are currently struggling, etc., then I'd stop being friends with them. But they haven't. Go ahead and call all people who voted for Trump fascists. You can say that there's no way you'd have a conversation with someone that like, much less be friends with them, but in my mind more divide isn't what we need in this country. Clearly you disagree, so sleep well.

They've already shown you by their vote and their applause for him on tv. Most people with a backbone would have said something then. And do you think YOU aren't helping to cause divide by being a bystander? I can tell you that you are helping the Trumpers by your inactions. Did you learn nothing about this in school? I'm in my early 50s and we had holocaust survivors speak to us and tell us how it all starts. And that you must speak out as soon as possible or it all snowballs.

“We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere. When human lives are endangered, when human dignity is in jeopardy, national borders and sensitivities become irrelevant. Wherever men and women are persecuted because of their race, religion, or political views, that place must - at that moment - become the center of the universe.” - Elie Wiesel

Excellent quote.

[Anonymous]

My aunt shared racist stuff on Facebook then was shocked when we wouldn’t talk to her anymore (especially since she was racist towards my brother's wife and kids). She died and nope, didn't go to her funeral at her super conservative church either. Not a single regret, I can tell my nephews I picked them over a nasty hateful bigot.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel like all of you cutting friends and family out of your lives, dropping the NYT and Washington Post, dropping Twitter and Facebook. . .I don't know. It's kind of sad to me. None of my friends are Trumpers, but none of them are doing any of this stuff either.

Why should I subscribe to a newspaper that doesn’t do its job? Why should I be friends with people who align themselves with white supremacists. It’s not sad. It’s just natural consequences.

+1

These are weak willed people. They don't really stand on principle and have a hard time understanding why it matters so much. They are much more morally relativist for now...I suspect there will be a tipping point for even them down the road.

DP. Maybe they're just not into being as performative as you are.

That MAGA performative trope has gotten mighty rusty as our country descends into the abyss. It's go time and we see where so many of you are. If we prevail, you will be the Germans in our history books.

[Anonymous]

I'm not in favor of a Christian theocracy - which is pretty much what Project 2025 aims to do eventually. If my friends are in favor of a theocracy, I do not want to be friends anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My aunt shared racist stuff on Facebook then was shocked when we wouldn’t talk to her anymore (especially since she was racist towards my brother's wife and kids). She died and nope, didn't go to her funeral at her super conservative church either. Not a single regret, I can tell my nephews I picked them over a nasty hateful bigot.

Exactly. I feel the same way about my father in law and uncle. I choose my black sister in law every time.

[Anonymous]

Still waiting to hear how the PP thinks we should all “compromise”.

Since this all, you know, our fault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not in favor of a Christian theocracy - which is pretty much what Project 2025 aims to do eventually. If my friends are in favor of a theocracy, I do not want to be friends anymore.

They are just aligning with the Christofascists for now - the broligarchy thinks they are each going to be kings in their Network Cities and will use our bodies as biofuel. I mean the layers of evil of those involved would have caused 1980 America to riot exponentially harder than the American Revolution. But a giant chunk of the country has been brainwashed that their fellow Americans are the enemy.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m not friends with Nazis so no.

DP.

Loathe Trump, but just don’t understand this POV.

Obviously, the vast majority of Trump supporters are neither Nazis nor anything approaching Naxis.

So what exactly do you hope to accomplish with your disdain and invective?

Seems to me it’s just emotive venting, and almost certainly counterproductive.

My advice to everyone who doesn’t like what’s happening: grow the eff up and have conversations with people.

You have to live with them one way or another.

They are enabling racism so…

So…how are you/we going to stop them?

By ignoring them? By calling them Nazis?

The only path to making things better is to persuade/compromise.

It’s adulting 101.

A lot of people have never learned the art of compromise which is why we are in the situation we are in. It's all or nothing for them.

Curious what sort of "compromise" you see happening on the Trump side of things

[Anonymous]

Many of my relatives are liberals and have supported racist policies for years like affirmative action/DEI. I always viewed their allegiance to their party and liberal issues as some sort of deficiency, but never considered it a moral issue because I felt like they were all hoodwinked or bamboozled. It wasn't about morals because they honestly believed they were doing the right thing.

The difference with MAGA is that the intellectual laziness is VERY deep and it permeates every single issue. I mean, it's like eveything they talk about is a lie or gross exaggeration or massive over simplification of a complex issue. My co-workers, whom I've worked with for over 20 years, are 95% republican and a vast majority had honor and integrity. It's mind boggling to think that once Trump came on the scene, they started repeating lie after lie. Anyone who attempts to show that their comments aren't true is considered the enemy. I don't even know what to call it? Extremism? Brainwashing?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m not friends with Nazis so no.

DP.

Loathe Trump, but just don’t understand this POV.

Obviously, the vast majority of Trump supporters are neither Nazis nor anything approaching Naxis.

So what exactly do you hope to accomplish with your disdain and invective?

Seems to me it’s just emotive venting, and almost certainly counterproductive.

My advice to everyone who doesn’t like what’s happening: grow the eff up and have conversations with people.

You have to live with them one way or another.

They are enabling racism so…

So…how are you/we going to stop them?

By ignoring them? By calling them Nazis?

The only path to making things better is to persuade/compromise.

It’s adulting 101.

How do you suggest “compromising” on fascism? Bigotry?

My DH and I have spent YEARS trying to share facts and reason with MAGA family members. They absolutely refuse to let go of the misinformation. You can’t persuade people who are 100% committed to the narrative.

Funny how I don’t see you pushing MAGAs to compromise at all.

First, you're aware of the science, right?

Evidence is pretty clear that dialogue/interaction between individuals that disagree tends to mitigate/limit extremism.

Second, of course I encourage MAGAs to compromise. I challenge their positions and gently make fun of them ("Eliminate the FDA? I'm buying you a 'Make E Coli Great Again' t-shirt for your birthday. I get wanting to reduce government waste, but do you REALLY want a literal sht sandwich for lunch?")

Third, WRT results. Do I get them to do a 180? No.

Have they usually moderated their rhetoric and acknowledged the validity of opposing viewpoints by the end of the conversation? 100%. And that lays the groundwork for moderation/compromise.

This is Life 101. Not so complicated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting to hear how the PP thinks we should all “compromise”.

Since this all, you know, our fault.

Gawd, you're insufferable (and I'm on YOUR SIDE).

How should you compromise?

1. Recognize that those with differing political beliefs are not the enemy.

2. Even if they are, recognize that screaming at them or ignoring them will not improve the situation.

3. Attempt to address their concerns in ways that you find reasonable. To take an easy example, race-based affirmative action could be replaced with affirmative action based on economic disadvantage (as many left-leaning scholars have long proposed).

I could give literally 100 more examples, but it's pretty straightforward across the board, with only a few truly irreconcilable positions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not friends with Nazis so no.

DP.

Loathe Trump, but just don’t understand this POV.

Obviously, the vast majority of Trump supporters are neither Nazis nor anything approaching Naxis.

So what exactly do you hope to accomplish with your disdain and invective?

Seems to me it’s just emotive venting, and almost certainly counterproductive.

My advice to everyone who doesn’t like what’s happening: grow the eff up and have conversations with people.

You have to live with them one way or another.

They are enabling racism so…

The entirety of human history on every continent has involved tribalism, racism, and xenophobia. It was quasi-hidden away for 50 or so years and suddenly you’re so shocked that you can’t even be in the same company as someone who “enables” racism? There are plenty of black, white, Japanese, European, Australian, Indian, middle eastern racists - but for some reason you draw the line at the MAGA racists.

Racism exists, you have to learn how to navigate it not just put yourself in a bubble where you can pretend that part of society has evolved past it. Given the opportunity literally any group will use identity to coalesce one group against another - thousands of years of human history teaches us that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting to hear how the PP thinks we should all “compromise”.

Since this all, you know, our fault.

Gawd, you're insufferable (and I'm on YOUR SIDE).

How should you compromise?

1. Recognize that those with differing political beliefs are not the enemy.

2. Even if they are, recognize that screaming at them or ignoring them will not improve the situation.

3. Attempt to address their concerns in ways that you find reasonable. To take an easy example, race-based affirmative action could be replaced with affirmative action based on economic disadvantage (as many left-leaning scholars have long proposed).

I could give literally 100 more examples, but it's pretty straightforward across the board, with only a few truly irreconcilable positions.

1. I don’t give my time and energy either different moral compasses. This has been true always. My friend was using me as an alibi when cheating on her H. I dumped her. I don’t have to be your friend,

2. Yes ignoring hate/stupidity/immorality/lying improved my situation and it’s not my job to improve their situation,

3. If they are too stupid to know people get jobs and into college based on their family contacts and we need to offer opportunities to those who are not friends with admin officers and c suite hiring officials it’s not my job to educate them,

I could provide 100 other examples but it’s pretty straight forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not friends with Nazis so no.

DP.

Loathe Trump, but just don’t understand this POV.

Obviously, the vast majority of Trump supporters are neither Nazis nor anything approaching Naxis.

So what exactly do you hope to accomplish with your disdain and invective?

Seems to me it’s just emotive venting, and almost certainly counterproductive.

My advice to everyone who doesn’t like what’s happening: grow the eff up and have conversations with people.

You have to live with them one way or another.

They are enabling racism so…

The entirety of human history on every continent has involved tribalism, racism, and xenophobia. It was quasi-hidden away for 50 or so years and suddenly you’re so shocked that you can’t even be in the same company as someone who “enables” racism? There are plenty of black, white, Japanese, European, Australian, Indian, middle eastern racists - but for some reason you draw the line at the MAGA racists.

Racism exists, you have to learn how to navigate it not just put yourself in a bubble where you can pretend that part of society has evolved past it. Given the opportunity literally any group will use identity to coalesce one group against another - thousands of years of human history teaches us that.