Are you putting all your friends through a political-purity test right now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many of my relatives are liberals and have supported racist policies for years like affirmative action/DEI. I always viewed their allegiance to their party and liberal issues as some sort of deficiency, but never considered it a moral issue because I felt like they were all hoodwinked or bamboozled. It wasn't about morals because they honestly believed they were doing the right thing.

The difference with MAGA is that the intellectual laziness is VERY deep and it permeates every single issue. I mean, it's like eveything they talk about is a lie or gross exaggeration or massive over simplification of a complex issue. My co-workers, whom I've worked with for over 20 years, are 95% republican and a vast majority had honor and integrity. It's mind boggling to think that once Trump came on the scene, they started repeating lie after lie. Anyone who attempts to show that their comments aren't true is considered the enemy. I don't even know what to call it? Extremism? Brainwashing?

Seems like brainwashing.

Lessening the disparate impact for one group does not mean "racism" for another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not friends with Nazis so no.

DP.

Loathe Trump, but just don’t understand this POV.

Obviously, the vast majority of Trump supporters are neither Nazis nor anything approaching Naxis.

So what exactly do you hope to accomplish with your disdain and invective?

Seems to me it’s just emotive venting, and almost certainly counterproductive.

My advice to everyone who doesn’t like what’s happening: grow the eff up and have conversations with people.

You have to live with them one way or another.

They are enabling racism so…

So…how are you/we going to stop them?

By ignoring them? By calling them Nazis?

The only path to making things better is to persuade/compromise.

It’s adulting 101.

How do you suggest “compromising” on fascism? Bigotry?

My DH and I have spent YEARS trying to share facts and reason with MAGA family members. They absolutely refuse to let go of the misinformation. You can’t persuade people who are 100% committed to the narrative.

Funny how I don’t see you pushing MAGAs to compromise at all.

First, you're aware of the science, right?

Evidence is pretty clear that dialogue/interaction between individuals that disagree tends to mitigate/limit extremism.

Second, of course I encourage MAGAs to compromise. I challenge their positions and gently make fun of them ("Eliminate the FDA? I'm buying you a 'Make E Coli Great Again' t-shirt for your birthday. I get wanting to reduce government waste, but do you REALLY want a literal sht sandwich for lunch?")

Third, WRT results. Do I get them to do a 180? No.

Have they usually moderated their rhetoric and acknowledged the validity of opposing viewpoints by the end of the conversation? 100%. And that lays the groundwork for moderation/compromise.

This is Life 101. Not so complicated.

In my sample size of 1 - my sphere of influence with friends/family - the evidence is clear: dialogue doesn't limit extremism.

This is based on YEARS of diplomatically trying to introduce facts and discuss topics. Unless people are open to listening, it doesn't happen.

Still waiting to hear about these “compromises” on fascism and bigotry...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not friends with Nazis so no.

DP.

Loathe Trump, but just don’t understand this POV.

Obviously, the vast majority of Trump supporters are neither Nazis nor anything approaching Naxis.

So what exactly do you hope to accomplish with your disdain and invective?

Seems to me it’s just emotive venting, and almost certainly counterproductive.

My advice to everyone who doesn’t like what’s happening: grow the eff up and have conversations with people.

You have to live with them one way or another.

They are enabling racism so…

The entirety of human history on every continent has involved tribalism, racism, and xenophobia. It was quasi-hidden away for 50 or so years and suddenly you’re so shocked that you can’t even be in the same company as someone who “enables” racism? There are plenty of black, white, Japanese, European, Australian, Indian, middle eastern racists - but for some reason you draw the line at the MAGA racists.

Racism exists, you have to learn how to navigate it not just put yourself in a bubble where you can pretend that part of society has evolved past it. Given the opportunity literally any group will use identity to coalesce one group against another - thousands of years of human history teaches us that.

It was a typo that I immediately corrected.

They are enabling fascism, which is what was being discussed above.

(and no, I don't need to tolerate people who enable racism either)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting to hear how the PP thinks we should all “compromise”.

Since this all, you know, our fault.

Gawd, you're insufferable (and I'm on YOUR SIDE).

How should you compromise?

1. Recognize that those with differing political beliefs are not the enemy.

2. Even if they are, recognize that screaming at them or ignoring them will not improve the situation.

3. Attempt to address their concerns in ways that you find reasonable. To take an easy example, race-based affirmative action could be replaced with affirmative action based on economic disadvantage (as many left-leaning scholars have long proposed).

I could give literally 100 more examples, but it's pretty straightforward across the board, with only a few truly irreconcilable positions.

No, you're not on "my side". You're a sht stirring troll who enjoys being a dick.

1. obviously - these are friends & family
2. no sht - we've spent years diplomatically trying to discuss
3. they aren't not interested in having a reasonable discussion based on facts or reason. it's impossible to compromise when we aren't working off the same fundamentals.

Let's hear more of these examples. Your idea that there are a hundred easy "compromises" is ridiculous.

Blaming Trump on the people trying to fight disinformation is ridiculous. Gaslighting, in fact. Trollish sht stirring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of my relatives are liberals and have supported racist policies for years like affirmative action/DEI. I always viewed their allegiance to their party and liberal issues as some sort of deficiency, but never considered it a moral issue because I felt like they were all hoodwinked or bamboozled. It wasn't about morals because they honestly believed they were doing the right thing.

The difference with MAGA is that the intellectual laziness is VERY deep and it permeates every single issue. I mean, it's like eveything they talk about is a lie or gross exaggeration or massive over simplification of a complex issue. My co-workers, whom I've worked with for over 20 years, are 95% republican and a vast majority had honor and integrity. It's mind boggling to think that once Trump came on the scene, they started repeating lie after lie. Anyone who attempts to show that their comments aren't true is considered the enemy. I don't even know what to call it? Extremism? Brainwashing?

Seems like brainwashing.

Lessening the disparate impact for one group does not mean "racism" for another.

At the expense of others and based on race, absolutely. It's a fact, not opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not friends with Nazis so no.

DP.

Loathe Trump, but just don’t understand this POV.

Obviously, the vast majority of Trump supporters are neither Nazis nor anything approaching Naxis.

So what exactly do you hope to accomplish with your disdain and invective?

Seems to me it’s just emotive venting, and almost certainly counterproductive.

My advice to everyone who doesn’t like what’s happening: grow the eff up and have conversations with people.

You have to live with them one way or another.

They are enabling racism so…

So…how are you/we going to stop them?

By ignoring them? By calling them Nazis?

The only path to making things better is to persuade/compromise.

It’s adulting 101.

How do you suggest “compromising” on fascism? Bigotry?

My DH and I have spent YEARS trying to share facts and reason with MAGA family members. They absolutely refuse to let go of the misinformation. You can’t persuade people who are 100% committed to the narrative.

Funny how I don’t see you pushing MAGAs to compromise at all.

First, you're aware of the science, right?

Evidence is pretty clear that dialogue/interaction between individuals that disagree tends to mitigate/limit extremism.

Second, of course I encourage MAGAs to compromise. I challenge their positions and gently make fun of them ("Eliminate the FDA? I'm buying you a 'Make E Coli Great Again' t-shirt for your birthday. I get wanting to reduce government waste, but do you REALLY want a literal sht sandwich for lunch?")

Third, WRT results. Do I get them to do a 180? No.

Have they usually moderated their rhetoric and acknowledged the validity of opposing viewpoints by the end of the conversation? 100%. And that lays the groundwork for moderation/compromise.

This is Life 101. Not so complicated.

In my sample size of 1 - my sphere of influence with friends/family - the evidence is clear: dialogue doesn't limit extremism.

This is based on YEARS of diplomatically trying to introduce facts and discuss topics. Unless people are open to listening, it doesn't happen.

Still waiting to hear about these “compromises” on fascism and bigotry...

"Thee evidence is clear" based on your sample size of 1???

Here's actual science:

"Other studies have shown that when relatively like-minded people are grouped together, they don't settle around the average point of view of the individuals in the group but rather become more extreme in the direction toward which they're already inclined. This gives clustering a powerful self-reinforcing quality, and helps explain how American counties have hardened into such immovable political clumps.

"It doesn't seem to matter if you're a frat boy, a French high school student, a petty criminal or a federal appeals court judge," Bishop writes. "Mixed company moderates; like-minded company polarizes. Heterogeneous communities restrain group excesses; homogeneous communities march toward the extremes."

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/arts/24iht-bookmar.1.13907014.html?unlocked_article_code=1.wE4.JCJW.o-gO_SU7VaEi&smid=url-share

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting to hear how the PP thinks we should all “compromise”.

Since this all, you know, our fault.

Gawd, you're insufferable (and I'm on YOUR SIDE).

How should you compromise?

1. Recognize that those with differing political beliefs are not the enemy.

2. Even if they are, recognize that screaming at them or ignoring them will not improve the situation.

3. Attempt to address their concerns in ways that you find reasonable. To take an easy example, race-based affirmative action could be replaced with affirmative action based on economic disadvantage (as many left-leaning scholars have long proposed).

I could give literally 100 more examples, but it's pretty straightforward across the board, with only a few truly irreconcilable positions.

No, you're not on "my side". You're a sht stirring troll who enjoys being a dick.

1. obviously - these are friends & family
2. no sht - we've spent years diplomatically trying to discuss
3. they aren't not interested in having a reasonable discussion based on facts or reason. it's impossible to compromise when we aren't working off the same fundamentals.

Let's hear more of these examples. Your idea that there are a hundred easy "compromises" is ridiculous.

Blaming Trump on the people trying to fight disinformation is ridiculous. Gaslighting, in fact. Trollish sht stirring.

You are 100% missing the point.

I'm not "blaming Trump" on the people trying to fight disinformation.

I'm saying that calling Trump voters "Nazis", cutting them out of your lives, and otherwise excoriating them will make things worse, not better.

And I'm suggesting that we focus on how to solve the problem, rather than on how the problem makes you feel.

You know, grown up stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of my relatives are liberals and have supported racist policies for years like affirmative action/DEI. I always viewed their allegiance to their party and liberal issues as some sort of deficiency, but never considered it a moral issue because I felt like they were all hoodwinked or bamboozled. It wasn't about morals because they honestly believed they were doing the right thing.

The difference with MAGA is that the intellectual laziness is VERY deep and it permeates every single issue. I mean, it's like eveything they talk about is a lie or gross exaggeration or massive over simplification of a complex issue. My co-workers, whom I've worked with for over 20 years, are 95% republican and a vast majority had honor and integrity. It's mind boggling to think that once Trump came on the scene, they started repeating lie after lie. Anyone who attempts to show that their comments aren't true is considered the enemy. I don't even know what to call it? Extremism? Brainwashing?

Seems like brainwashing.

Lessening the disparate impact for one group does not mean "racism" for another.

At the expense of others and based on race, absolutely. It's a fact, not opinion.

When the first 148 women enrolled at Princeton in 1964, was that sex discrimination against men?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not friends with Nazis so no.

DP.

Loathe Trump, but just don’t understand this POV.

Obviously, the vast majority of Trump supporters are neither Nazis nor anything approaching Naxis.

So what exactly do you hope to accomplish with your disdain and invective?

Seems to me it’s just emotive venting, and almost certainly counterproductive.

My advice to everyone who doesn’t like what’s happening: grow the eff up and have conversations with people.

You have to live with them one way or another.

They are enabling racism so…

So…how are you/we going to stop them?

By ignoring them? By calling them Nazis?

The only path to making things better is to persuade/compromise.

It’s adulting 101.

How do you suggest “compromising” on fascism? Bigotry?

My DH and I have spent YEARS trying to share facts and reason with MAGA family members. They absolutely refuse to let go of the misinformation. You can’t persuade people who are 100% committed to the narrative.

Funny how I don’t see you pushing MAGAs to compromise at all.

First, you're aware of the science, right?

Evidence is pretty clear that dialogue/interaction between individuals that disagree tends to mitigate/limit extremism.

Second, of course I encourage MAGAs to compromise. I challenge their positions and gently make fun of them ("Eliminate the FDA? I'm buying you a 'Make E Coli Great Again' t-shirt for your birthday. I get wanting to reduce government waste, but do you REALLY want a literal sht sandwich for lunch?")

Third, WRT results. Do I get them to do a 180? No.

Have they usually moderated their rhetoric and acknowledged the validity of opposing viewpoints by the end of the conversation? 100%. And that lays the groundwork for moderation/compromise.

This is Life 101. Not so complicated.

In my sample size of 1 - my sphere of influence with friends/family - the evidence is clear: dialogue doesn't limit extremism.

This is based on YEARS of diplomatically trying to introduce facts and discuss topics. Unless people are open to listening, it doesn't happen.

Still waiting to hear about these “compromises” on fascism and bigotry...

"Thee evidence is clear" based on your sample size of 1???

Here's actual science:

"Other studies have shown that when relatively like-minded people are grouped together, they don't settle around the average point of view of the individuals in the group but rather become more extreme in the direction toward which they're already inclined. This gives clustering a powerful self-reinforcing quality, and helps explain how American counties have hardened into such immovable political clumps.

"It doesn't seem to matter if you're a frat boy, a French high school student, a petty criminal or a federal appeals court judge," Bishop writes. "Mixed company moderates; like-minded company polarizes. Heterogeneous communities restrain group excesses; homogeneous communities march toward the extremes."

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/arts/24iht-bookmar.1.13907014.html?unlocked_article_code=1.wE4.JCJW.o-gO_SU7VaEi&smid=url-share

You missed the point.

While that may be true, on average, I haven't found that to be true in my sphere.

It's irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting to hear how the PP thinks we should all “compromise”.

Since this all, you know, our fault.

Gawd, you're insufferable (and I'm on YOUR SIDE).

How should you compromise?

1. Recognize that those with differing political beliefs are not the enemy.

2. Even if they are, recognize that screaming at them or ignoring them will not improve the situation.

3. Attempt to address their concerns in ways that you find reasonable. To take an easy example, race-based affirmative action could be replaced with affirmative action based on economic disadvantage (as many left-leaning scholars have long proposed).

I could give literally 100 more examples, but it's pretty straightforward across the board, with only a few truly irreconcilable positions.

1. I don’t give my time and energy either different moral compasses. This has been true always. My friend was using me as an alibi when cheating on her H. I dumped her. I don’t have to be your friend,

2. Yes ignoring hate/stupidity/immorality/lying improved my situation and it’s not my job to improve their situation,

3. If they are too stupid to know people get jobs and into college based on their family contacts and we need to offer opportunities to those who are not friends with admin officers and c suite hiring officials it’s not my job to educate them,

I could provide 100 other examples but it’s pretty straight forward.

So, you're MAGA. 100% only care about what's best for you, don't care if it doesn't impact you.

And you've got an infallible moral compass.

Bravo.

Splendid parody. (I hope)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting to hear how the PP thinks we should all “compromise”.

Since this all, you know, our fault.

Gawd, you're insufferable (and I'm on YOUR SIDE).

How should you compromise?

1. Recognize that those with differing political beliefs are not the enemy.

2. Even if they are, recognize that screaming at them or ignoring them will not improve the situation.

3. Attempt to address their concerns in ways that you find reasonable. To take an easy example, race-based affirmative action could be replaced with affirmative action based on economic disadvantage (as many left-leaning scholars have long proposed).

I could give literally 100 more examples, but it's pretty straightforward across the board, with only a few truly irreconcilable positions.

No, you're not on "my side". You're a sht stirring troll who enjoys being a dick.

1. obviously - these are friends & family
2. no sht - we've spent years diplomatically trying to discuss
3. they aren't not interested in having a reasonable discussion based on facts or reason. it's impossible to compromise when we aren't working off the same fundamentals.

Let's hear more of these examples. Your idea that there are a hundred easy "compromises" is ridiculous.

Blaming Trump on the people trying to fight disinformation is ridiculous. Gaslighting, in fact. Trollish sht stirring.

You are 100% missing the point.

I'm not "blaming Trump" on the people trying to fight disinformation.

I'm saying that calling Trump voters "Nazis", cutting them out of your lives, and otherwise excoriating them will make things worse, not better.

And I'm suggesting that we focus on how to solve the problem, rather than on how the problem makes you feel.

You know, grown up stuff.

There is zero benefit to include MAGAs in our lives. Engaging with them is not the solution. Been there, done that. You cannot change people who don't want to change.

This poster is blaming Trump on them:
"A lot of people have never learned the art of compromise which is why we are in the situation we are in. It's all or nothing for them."

Still waiting to hear what are the "compromises" on fascism and bigotry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting to hear how the PP thinks we should all “compromise”.

Since this all, you know, our fault.

Gawd, you're insufferable (and I'm on YOUR SIDE).

How should you compromise?

1. Recognize that those with differing political beliefs are not the enemy.

2. Even if they are, recognize that screaming at them or ignoring them will not improve the situation.

3. Attempt to address their concerns in ways that you find reasonable. To take an easy example, race-based affirmative action could be replaced with affirmative action based on economic disadvantage (as many left-leaning scholars have long proposed).

I could give literally 100 more examples, but it's pretty straightforward across the board, with only a few truly irreconcilable positions.

1. I don’t give my time and energy either different moral compasses. This has been true always. My friend was using me as an alibi when cheating on her H. I dumped her. I don’t have to be your friend,

2. Yes ignoring hate/stupidity/immorality/lying improved my situation and it’s not my job to improve their situation,

3. If they are too stupid to know people get jobs and into college based on their family contacts and we need to offer opportunities to those who are not friends with admin officers and c suite hiring officials it’s not my job to educate them,

I could provide 100 other examples but it’s pretty straight forward.

So, you're MAGA. 100% only care about what's best for you, don't care if it doesn't impact you.

And you've got an infallible moral compass.

Bravo.

Splendid parody. (I hope)

The PP isn't MAGA at all. Sht stirrer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting to hear how the PP thinks we should all “compromise”.

Since this all, you know, our fault.

Gawd, you're insufferable (and I'm on YOUR SIDE).

How should you compromise?

1. Recognize that those with differing political beliefs are not the enemy.

2. Even if they are, recognize that screaming at them or ignoring them will not improve the situation.

3. Attempt to address their concerns in ways that you find reasonable. To take an easy example, race-based affirmative action could be replaced with affirmative action based on economic disadvantage (as many left-leaning scholars have long proposed).

I could give literally 100 more examples, but it's pretty straightforward across the board, with only a few truly irreconcilable positions.

1. I don’t give my time and energy either different moral compasses. This has been true always. My friend was using me as an alibi when cheating on her H. I dumped her. I don’t have to be your friend,

2. Yes ignoring hate/stupidity/immorality/lying improved my situation and it’s not my job to improve their situation,

3. If they are too stupid to know people get jobs and into college based on their family contacts and we need to offer opportunities to those who are not friends with admin officers and c suite hiring officials it’s not my job to educate them,

I could provide 100 other examples but it’s pretty straight forward.

So, you're MAGA. 100% only care about what's best for you, don't care if it doesn't impact you.

And you've got an infallible moral compass.

Bravo.

Splendid parody. (I hope)

The PP isn't MAGA at all. Sht stirrer.

Then they're an idiot. You choose

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting to hear how the PP thinks we should all “compromise”.

Since this all, you know, our fault.

Gawd, you're insufferable (and I'm on YOUR SIDE).

How should you compromise?

1. Recognize that those with differing political beliefs are not the enemy.

2. Even if they are, recognize that screaming at them or ignoring them will not improve the situation.

3. Attempt to address their concerns in ways that you find reasonable. To take an easy example, race-based affirmative action could be replaced with affirmative action based on economic disadvantage (as many left-leaning scholars have long proposed).

I could give literally 100 more examples, but it's pretty straightforward across the board, with only a few truly irreconcilable positions.

No, you're not on "my side". You're a sht stirring troll who enjoys being a dick.

1. obviously - these are friends & family
2. no sht - we've spent years diplomatically trying to discuss
3. they aren't not interested in having a reasonable discussion based on facts or reason. it's impossible to compromise when we aren't working off the same fundamentals.

Let's hear more of these examples. Your idea that there are a hundred easy "compromises" is ridiculous.

Blaming Trump on the people trying to fight disinformation is ridiculous. Gaslighting, in fact. Trollish sht stirring.

You are 100% missing the point.

I'm not "blaming Trump" on the people trying to fight disinformation.

I'm saying that calling Trump voters "Nazis", cutting them out of your lives, and otherwise excoriating them will make things worse, not better.

And I'm suggesting that we focus on how to solve the problem, rather than on how the problem makes you feel.

You know, grown up stuff.

There is zero benefit to include MAGAs in our lives. Engaging with them is not the solution. Been there, done that. You cannot change people who don't want to change.

This poster is blaming Trump on them:
"A lot of people have never learned the art of compromise which is why we are in the situation we are in. It's all or nothing for them."

Still waiting to hear what are the "compromises" on fascism and bigotry.

Read the science on extremism posted above. Simply put, you're wrong.

As for compromises, pick a specific topic and I'll be very glad to provide a suggestion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting to hear how the PP thinks we should all “compromise”.

Since this all, you know, our fault.

Gawd, you're insufferable (and I'm on YOUR SIDE).

How should you compromise?

1. Recognize that those with differing political beliefs are not the enemy.

2. Even if they are, recognize that screaming at them or ignoring them will not improve the situation.

3. Attempt to address their concerns in ways that you find reasonable. To take an easy example, race-based affirmative action could be replaced with affirmative action based on economic disadvantage (as many left-leaning scholars have long proposed).

I could give literally 100 more examples, but it's pretty straightforward across the board, with only a few truly irreconcilable positions.

1. I don’t give my time and energy either different moral compasses. This has been true always. My friend was using me as an alibi when cheating on her H. I dumped her. I don’t have to be your friend,

2. Yes ignoring hate/stupidity/immorality/lying improved my situation and it’s not my job to improve their situation,

3. If they are too stupid to know people get jobs and into college based on their family contacts and we need to offer opportunities to those who are not friends with admin officers and c suite hiring officials it’s not my job to educate them,

I could provide 100 other examples but it’s pretty straight forward.

So, you're MAGA. 100% only care about what's best for you, don't care if it doesn't impact you.

And you've got an infallible moral compass.

Bravo.

Splendid parody. (I hope)

The PP isn't MAGA at all. Sht stirrer.

Then they're an idiot. You choose

PP said they don't want to have amoral friends. Doesn't sound stupid to me.