High schoolers can’t write

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all true. The kids can’t write. I work in MCPS and have kids in the schools.

The lucky few get into humanities magnets in middle school and do learn. And then go on to high school and college well prepared.

If you have a choice between high quality stem instruction and high quality English and writing instruction, choose the latter. There are so many ways to find math enrichment for your child. Not so many for writing- let me know if you find them!

So if private schools are an acceptable option (ideologically/financially) and you really care about this issue, go for it. And then buy the enrichment in math a la carte.

I made the opposite choice- turning up my nose at the math/science available at the privates, but I don’t think I’d do it again. The kids really don’t learn how to write with the exception of some of the magnets.

I’m curious what your opposition to math at private school was? I know they don’t accelerate as much, but my understanding is that’s actually recommended, from a pedagogical standpoint.

Holton Arms has a particularly thorough explanation of the reasoning why they approach math the way they do (aka without acceleration for the vast majority of students until high school): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dQXiD9zHmP29RbpgGFTxXUs4YEfamalltpkL3MtWNEg/edit

I’m not sure that science is worse at the best private schools. Bullis’ engineering/makerlab space is unbelievable, for example.

My one kid needed accelerated math and I had a friend/teacher at a private high school who told me that that sort of kid would do better with a big peer group moving along quickly- Blair magnet. She was right that the science and math were great, but he never really learned to write- well, I mean. He wrote college essays etc, but he didn’t ever get amazing writing instruction.

I’m sure there are great stem opportunities at different privates- just giving my .02 in hindsight. Writing is one thing MCPS does not do well except at the very few magnets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If they could write it would destroy the trash public school systems goal of being sloppy, slovenly and somewhat stinky.

Sadly there is some truth here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When would they have time to provide feedback? 120+ students and one planning period per day. They have to prioritize planning so grading is done on their own time. They are required to use the rubric so that's what they use.

Well, they have to read the essay. They could add a sentence of feedback. It's really not asking that much. And to say you get 2.5/3 on this part of the rubric is not helpful - where did the student miss the mark? And when a student asks for feedback and is told no, the teacher is not performing his or her job at a basic level.

Seriously. When I was in public school in the 90s, I always got feedback on my writing. My teachers had the same number of kids in their classes as MCPS teachers do.

We need to stop making excuses or acting like teachers are dealing with situations that have never ever happened before.

Exactly! Stop making excuses for these teachers. If the teacher is already reading the child's assignment, why not provide constructive feedback.

If it's not for the magnet programs and IB programs, I wouldn't send my worst enemy to the regular program at MCPS. TOTAL JOKE! Kids are just being handed out As

[Anonymous]

I notice this with my Pyle kids. Their writing is awful. I’m really trying to work with them now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should have been working with them at home OP. Everyone knows that.

Parents shouldn’t be the primary instructor for foundational skills like writing.

Yes they should. If you refuse to stop complaining. It’s part of parenting.

Are you a trained educator? What are you specifically doing with your kids at home to teach them to write properly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all true. The kids can’t write. I work in MCPS and have kids in the schools.

The lucky few get into humanities magnets in middle school and do learn. And then go on to high school and college well prepared.

If you have a choice between high quality stem instruction and high quality English and writing instruction, choose the latter. There are so many ways to find math enrichment for your child. Not so many for writing- let me know if you find them!

So if private schools are an acceptable option (ideologically/financially) and you really care about this issue, go for it. And then buy the enrichment in math a la carte.

I made the opposite choice- turning up my nose at the math/science available at the privates, but I don’t think I’d do it again. The kids really don’t learn how to write with the exception of some of the magnets.

I’m curious what your opposition to math at private school was? I know they don’t accelerate as much, but my understanding is that’s actually recommended, from a pedagogical standpoint.

Holton Arms has a particularly thorough explanation of the reasoning why they approach math the way they do (aka without acceleration for the vast majority of students until high school): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dQXiD9zHmP29RbpgGFTxXUs4YEfamalltpkL3MtWNEg/edit

I’m not sure that science is worse at the best private schools. Bullis’ engineering/makerlab space is unbelievable, for example.

That’s rich. I looked at the privates. My kid started algebra in 6th and none of the schools could accommodate that and few had true differentiation as the class sizes were small. We did private summer math classes, sine good, one really bad. How the school responded to the really bad was to dismiss the concerns and I could not imagine any of the classes we had were worth that kind of money. Our mcps teachers were better.

Lab space is nice, good teachers are nicer.

Name “the privates” because I can think of at least 10 off the top of my head that accommodate advanced math students. My kid is at a very competitive single sex Catholic high school where each kid is given a standardized math test, is individually tested and then in conjunction with a review of middle school grades and a consultation with the previous year’s math teacher, the school determines where your child should be placed in math. And the placement is right 99% of the time because the assessment is so thorough. MCPS wins for accelerating in math but private schools win when it comes to ensuring that the proper foundation is there before moving a student forward in math. Which do you prefer? On the private school board we never have parents asking about moving their kids down in math because it is too hard. Never. There is a reason why - the kid is properly placed up front. The “private schools have bad math” is the defensive cry of the uninformed and under resourced.

[Anonymous]

I teach a college class and its pretty bad there too. I assume it's not gonna get better with chat gpt being so easy to use instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all true. The kids can’t write. I work in MCPS and have kids in the schools.

The lucky few get into humanities magnets in middle school and do learn. And then go on to high school and college well prepared.

If you have a choice between high quality stem instruction and high quality English and writing instruction, choose the latter. There are so many ways to find math enrichment for your child. Not so many for writing- let me know if you find them!

So if private schools are an acceptable option (ideologically/financially) and you really care about this issue, go for it. And then buy the enrichment in math a la carte.

I made the opposite choice- turning up my nose at the math/science available at the privates, but I don’t think I’d do it again. The kids really don’t learn how to write with the exception of some of the magnets.

I’m curious what your opposition to math at private school was? I know they don’t accelerate as much, but my understanding is that’s actually recommended, from a pedagogical standpoint.

Holton Arms has a particularly thorough explanation of the reasoning why they approach math the way they do (aka without acceleration for the vast majority of students until high school): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dQXiD9zHmP29RbpgGFTxXUs4YEfamalltpkL3MtWNEg/edit

I’m not sure that science is worse at the best private schools. Bullis’ engineering/makerlab space is unbelievable, for example.

That’s rich. I looked at the privates. My kid started algebra in 6th and none of the schools could accommodate that and few had true differentiation as the class sizes were small. We did private summer math classes, sine good, one really bad. How the school responded to the really bad was to dismiss the concerns and I could not imagine any of the classes we had were worth that kind of money. Our mcps teachers were better.

Lab space is nice, good teachers are nicer.

Name “the privates” because I can think of at least 10 off the top of my head that accommodate advanced math students. My kid is at a very competitive single sex Catholic high school where each kid is given a standardized math test, is individually tested and then in conjunction with a review of middle school grades and a consultation with the previous year’s math teacher, the school determines where your child should be placed in math. And the placement is right 99% of the time because the assessment is so thorough. MCPS wins for accelerating in math but private schools win when it comes to ensuring that the proper foundation is there before moving a student forward in math. Which do you prefer? On the private school board we never have parents asking about moving their kids down in math because it is too hard. Never. There is a reason why - the kid is properly placed up front. The “private schools have bad math” is the defensive cry of the uninformed and under resourced.

Not the PP, and I wonder how much of the complaints are coming from parents who hope to get into a magnet for HS. Because it's pretty much impossible to get into the Blair magnet if your child was not on the accelerated math track starting with compacted math in ES, right? And it's generally not that hard to get into compacted math in MCPS, whereas it may be more uncertain where the child is placed at a private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should have been working with them at home OP. Everyone knows that.

Parents shouldn’t be the primary instructor for foundational skills like writing.

Yes they should. If you refuse to stop complaining. It’s part of parenting.

Are you a trained educator? What are you specifically doing with your kids at home to teach them to write properly?

You don’t need to be an educator to teach your kid the basics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all true. The kids can’t write. I work in MCPS and have kids in the schools.

The lucky few get into humanities magnets in middle school and do learn. And then go on to high school and college well prepared.

If you have a choice between high quality stem instruction and high quality English and writing instruction, choose the latter. There are so many ways to find math enrichment for your child. Not so many for writing- let me know if you find them!

So if private schools are an acceptable option (ideologically/financially) and you really care about this issue, go for it. And then buy the enrichment in math a la carte.

I made the opposite choice- turning up my nose at the math/science available at the privates, but I don’t think I’d do it again. The kids really don’t learn how to write with the exception of some of the magnets.

I’m curious what your opposition to math at private school was? I know they don’t accelerate as much, but my understanding is that’s actually recommended, from a pedagogical standpoint.

Holton Arms has a particularly thorough explanation of the reasoning why they approach math the way they do (aka without acceleration for the vast majority of students until high school): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dQXiD9zHmP29RbpgGFTxXUs4YEfamalltpkL3MtWNEg/edit

I’m not sure that science is worse at the best private schools. Bullis’ engineering/makerlab space is unbelievable, for example.

That’s rich. I looked at the privates. My kid started algebra in 6th and none of the schools could accommodate that and few had true differentiation as the class sizes were small. We did private summer math classes, sine good, one really bad. How the school responded to the really bad was to dismiss the concerns and I could not imagine any of the classes we had were worth that kind of money. Our mcps teachers were better.

Lab space is nice, good teachers are nicer.

Name “the privates” because I can think of at least 10 off the top of my head that accommodate advanced math students. My kid is at a very competitive single sex Catholic high school where each kid is given a standardized math test, is individually tested and then in conjunction with a review of middle school grades and a consultation with the previous year’s math teacher, the school determines where your child should be placed in math. And the placement is right 99% of the time because the assessment is so thorough. MCPS wins for accelerating in math but private schools win when it comes to ensuring that the proper foundation is there before moving a student forward in math. Which do you prefer? On the private school board we never have parents asking about moving their kids down in math because it is too hard. Never. There is a reason why - the kid is properly placed up front. The “private schools have bad math” is the defensive cry of the uninformed and under resourced.

Math is math. The teacher makes the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all true. The kids can’t write. I work in MCPS and have kids in the schools.

The lucky few get into humanities magnets in middle school and do learn. And then go on to high school and college well prepared.

If you have a choice between high quality stem instruction and high quality English and writing instruction, choose the latter. There are so many ways to find math enrichment for your child. Not so many for writing- let me know if you find them!

So if private schools are an acceptable option (ideologically/financially) and you really care about this issue, go for it. And then buy the enrichment in math a la carte.

I made the opposite choice- turning up my nose at the math/science available at the privates, but I don’t think I’d do it again. The kids really don’t learn how to write with the exception of some of the magnets.

I’m curious what your opposition to math at private school was? I know they don’t accelerate as much, but my understanding is that’s actually recommended, from a pedagogical standpoint.

Holton Arms has a particularly thorough explanation of the reasoning why they approach math the way they do (aka without acceleration for the vast majority of students until high school): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dQXiD9zHmP29RbpgGFTxXUs4YEfamalltpkL3MtWNEg/edit

I’m not sure that science is worse at the best private schools. Bullis’ engineering/makerlab space is unbelievable, for example.

That’s rich. I looked at the privates. My kid started algebra in 6th and none of the schools could accommodate that and few had true differentiation as the class sizes were small. We did private summer math classes, sine good, one really bad. How the school responded to the really bad was to dismiss the concerns and I could not imagine any of the classes we had were worth that kind of money. Our mcps teachers were better.

Lab space is nice, good teachers are nicer.

Name “the privates” because I can think of at least 10 off the top of my head that accommodate advanced math students. My kid is at a very competitive single sex Catholic high school where each kid is given a standardized math test, is individually tested and then in conjunction with a review of middle school grades and a consultation with the previous year’s math teacher, the school determines where your child should be placed in math. And the placement is right 99% of the time because the assessment is so thorough. MCPS wins for accelerating in math but private schools win when it comes to ensuring that the proper foundation is there before moving a student forward in math. Which do you prefer? On the private school board we never have parents asking about moving their kids down in math because it is too hard. Never. There is a reason why - the kid is properly placed up front. The “private schools have bad math” is the defensive cry of the uninformed and under resourced.

Not the PP, and I wonder how much of the complaints are coming from parents who hope to get into a magnet for HS. Because it's pretty much impossible to get into the Blair magnet if your child was not on the accelerated math track starting with compacted math in ES, right? And it's generally not that hard to get into compacted math in MCPS, whereas it may be more uncertain where the child is placed at a private.

My kid’s private school sends kids to Blair magnet.

This isn’t the hill you want to die on for MCPS, especially given the horrific math proficiency rates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should have been working with them at home OP. Everyone knows that.

Parents shouldn’t be the primary instructor for foundational skills like writing.

Yes they should. If you refuse to stop complaining. It’s part of parenting.

Are you a trained educator? What are you specifically doing with your kids at home to teach them to write properly?

You don’t need to be an educator to teach your kid the basics.

The “basics” are some of the hardest things to teach well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should have been working with them at home OP. Everyone knows that.

Parents shouldn’t be the primary instructor for foundational skills like writing.

Yes they should. If you refuse to stop complaining. It’s part of parenting.

Are you a trained educator? What are you specifically doing with your kids at home to teach them to write properly?

You don’t need to be an educator to teach your kid the basics.

The problem is that this refrain comes up for everything- phonics, spelling, writing, history, math, etc. "You should have been working with your child at home." WTF are they doing all day at school if we're expected to do this much supplementing at night in addition to their assigned homework? If they're not even getting "the basics" at school than what is the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should have been working with them at home OP. Everyone knows that.

Parents shouldn’t be the primary instructor for foundational skills like writing.

Yes they should. If you refuse to stop complaining. It’s part of parenting.

Are you a trained educator? What are you specifically doing with your kids at home to teach them to write properly?

You don’t need to be an educator to teach your kid the basics.

The “basics” are some of the hardest things to teach well.

Agreed.

Not to mention, there are many families in MCPS where English is not the parents' native language. IMO it's pretty unfair educational system if students are expected to learn foundational educational skills at home rather than in the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When would they have time to provide feedback? 120+ students and one planning period per day. They have to prioritize planning so grading is done on their own time. They are required to use the rubric so that's what they use.

Well, they have to read the essay. They could add a sentence of feedback. It's really not asking that much. And to say you get 2.5/3 on this part of the rubric is not helpful - where did the student miss the mark? And when a student asks for feedback and is told no, the teacher is not performing his or her job at a basic level.

Seriously. When I was in public school in the 90s, I always got feedback on my writing. My teachers had the same number of kids in their classes as MCPS teachers do.

We need to stop making excuses or acting like teachers are dealing with situations that have never ever happened before.

Exactly! Stop making excuses for these teachers. If the teacher is already reading the child's assignment, why not provide constructive feedback.

If it's not for the magnet programs and IB programs, I wouldn't send my worst enemy to the regular program at MCPS. TOTAL JOKE! Kids are just being handed out As

+1

I could not believe the crap that my kids sometimes got an A on and no constructive feedback. Thanks goodness they were innately good writers and did well once they got to college and the expectations were raised. It took a few written assignments but they figured out quickly what they needed to do.