High schoolers can’t write

[Anonymous]

What does learning cursive have to do with anything?

I learned cursive and I barely use it. But, I can write and use the proper grammar and punctuation. I can write complete thoughts without the help of AI.

[Anonymous]

What used to just be a 90ish minute writing test (11th grade World History DBQ - we would give a set of documents to analyze then answer a question), now takes about an entire week to teach for just a typical 5 paragraph essay. Every year we have to reteach how to write a thesis, how to structure a paragraph, etc. For some reason, students have to be retaught every year how to write.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What used to just be a 90ish minute writing test (11th grade World History DBQ - we would give a set of documents to analyze then answer a question), now takes about an entire week to teach for just a typical 5 paragraph essay. Every year we have to reteach how to write a thesis, how to structure a paragraph, etc. For some reason, students have to be retaught every year how to write.

In 11th grade? That's pathetic. My kids were regularly writing 5 paragraph essays starting in 4th/5th grade. By 11th, they were writing 5 page papers with citations. If public schools can't get the basics right, what is the point of the "education" they are offering?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What used to just be a 90ish minute writing test (11th grade World History DBQ - we would give a set of documents to analyze then answer a question), now takes about an entire week to teach for just a typical 5 paragraph essay. Every year we have to reteach how to write a thesis, how to structure a paragraph, etc. For some reason, students have to be retaught every year how to write.

In 11th grade? That's pathetic. My kids were regularly writing 5 paragraph essays starting in 4th/5th grade. By 11th, they were writing 5 page papers with citations. If public schools can't get the basics right, what is the point of the "education" they are offering?

Actually only 5 page papers is kinda pathetic too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are students even assigned to read entire books in ES and MS? My neighbor told me her kids have never been expected to read an entire book, only excerpts. WTH? Why?

I don’t think your neighbor knows what she’s talking about. In elementary school they may read excerpts, but kids definitely read whole books in middle school language classes.

While individual teachers might assign whole books, assigning excerpts from books is a common problem across MCPS in MS and HS.

They are now required to teach at least one novel study per quarter in secondary English classes in MCPS.

Our school does 2/quarter -- one whole-class novel and one in book circles that varies by reading level.

Oh boy! One novel study! How ever will the kids handle all of that.

By secondary do you mean MS or HS?

Both.

The fact that they’re only required to teach one book per quarter is utterly pathetic.

I don’t see the problem with one anchor text a quarter. So you teach The Odyssey as an anchor text. You throw in related texts, such as Atwood poetry or nonfiction about the ancient city of Troy. Students do related research to find criticism, and then write their own.

Easily enough content for a quarter.

that’s not how it was described. it was described as one book per quarter.

PP who said one book per quarter minimum. That is the minimum full-length books. It was said in response to someone who said kids read 2 books/year, which should not be happening.

The one book/quarter minimum is indeed the anchor text with other texts added on.

We've never had four books a quarter. Last year, freshman year, it was two books, excerpts and a movie for one quarter, which was absurd.

In MS, it was 1-2 books a year.

Ya’ll should definitely talk to the English department at your schools because it’s been one book per quarter and one major writing assignment per quarter for awhile. That info comes directly from Central Office. Further this school year they have re-emphasized this and are limiting the number of book choices available for teachers to choose from just to help ensure it’s grade level or above content.

Have you seen the choices for the Honors English 9 curriculum? Many are below grade level. But yes teachers are required to use 1 anchor text per quarter — just disagreeing that limiting choice means kids are getting grade-level content. In the pilot, most teachers chose texts well below grade level.

Yes I have seen the English 9 choices and I’m fine with them. If teachers are always choosing the easiest text, then that’s a teacher and expectation setting problem. I also know that it’s the reading, analysis and writing done with each anchor text along with supplemental material that determines the quality of the class.

My problem is how much of the books they try to read in class.

Having anchor texts that are below level and reading them in class in so-called honors English is ridiculous and underscores the problem here — class time is spent reading and not learning about how to analyze text and write.

Give us the list!

Check out the Gifted Education Committee’s spring presentation on this. Some of them are middle school graphic novels for struggling readers.

[Anonymous]

This is all true. The kids can’t write. I work in MCPS and have kids in the schools.

The lucky few get into humanities magnets in middle school and do learn. And then go on to high school and college well prepared.

If you have a choice between high quality stem instruction and high quality English and writing instruction, choose the latter. There are so many ways to find math enrichment for your child. Not so many for writing- let me know if you find them!

So if private schools are an acceptable option (ideologically/financially) and you really care about this issue, go for it. And then buy the enrichment in math a la carte.

I made the opposite choice- turning up my nose at the math/science available at the privates, but I don’t think I’d do it again. The kids really don’t learn how to write with the exception of some of the magnets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is all true. The kids can’t write. I work in MCPS and have kids in the schools.

The lucky few get into humanities magnets in middle school and do learn. And then go on to high school and college well prepared.

If you have a choice between high quality stem instruction and high quality English and writing instruction, choose the latter. There are so many ways to find math enrichment for your child. Not so many for writing- let me know if you find them!

So if private schools are an acceptable option (ideologically/financially) and you really care about this issue, go for it. And then buy the enrichment in math a la carte.

I made the opposite choice- turning up my nose at the math/science available at the privates, but I don’t think I’d do it again. The kids really don’t learn how to write with the exception of some of the magnets.

I’m curious what your opposition to math at private school was? I know they don’t accelerate as much, but my understanding is that’s actually recommended, from a pedagogical standpoint.

Holton Arms has a particularly thorough explanation of the reasoning why they approach math the way they do (aka without acceleration for the vast majority of students until high school): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dQXiD9zHmP29RbpgGFTxXUs4YEfamalltpkL3MtWNEg/edit

I’m not sure that science is worse at the best private schools. Bullis’ engineering/makerlab space is unbelievable, for example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do kids even learn cursive anymore?

I learned cursive, language arts, and grammar in Catholic school in the 90s.

We used to diagram sentences and label noun, verb, adverb.

I also learned this in Catholic school. My kid said she started learning cursive in a ‘W’ elementary but the teacher stopped at letter ‘D’ without explanation and never picked it up again. She moved to an Episcopal private school and has now learned to write in cursive until the end of the alphabet and how to diagram sentences and label nouns, verbs, adverbs, etc.

[Anonymous]

You should have been working with them at home OP. Everyone knows that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You should have been working with them at home OP. Everyone knows that.

Parents shouldn’t be the primary instructor for foundational skills like writing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is all true. The kids can’t write. I work in MCPS and have kids in the schools.

The lucky few get into humanities magnets in middle school and do learn. And then go on to high school and college well prepared.

If you have a choice between high quality stem instruction and high quality English and writing instruction, choose the latter. There are so many ways to find math enrichment for your child. Not so many for writing- let me know if you find them!

So if private schools are an acceptable option (ideologically/financially) and you really care about this issue, go for it. And then buy the enrichment in math a la carte.

I made the opposite choice- turning up my nose at the math/science available at the privates, but I don’t think I’d do it again. The kids really don’t learn how to write with the exception of some of the magnets.

Mine writes well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should have been working with them at home OP. Everyone knows that.

Parents shouldn’t be the primary instructor for foundational skills like writing.

Yes they should. If you refuse to stop complaining. It’s part of parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all true. The kids can’t write. I work in MCPS and have kids in the schools.

The lucky few get into humanities magnets in middle school and do learn. And then go on to high school and college well prepared.

If you have a choice between high quality stem instruction and high quality English and writing instruction, choose the latter. There are so many ways to find math enrichment for your child. Not so many for writing- let me know if you find them!

So if private schools are an acceptable option (ideologically/financially) and you really care about this issue, go for it. And then buy the enrichment in math a la carte.

I made the opposite choice- turning up my nose at the math/science available at the privates, but I don’t think I’d do it again. The kids really don’t learn how to write with the exception of some of the magnets.

I’m curious what your opposition to math at private school was? I know they don’t accelerate as much, but my understanding is that’s actually recommended, from a pedagogical standpoint.

Holton Arms has a particularly thorough explanation of the reasoning why they approach math the way they do (aka without acceleration for the vast majority of students until high school): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dQXiD9zHmP29RbpgGFTxXUs4YEfamalltpkL3MtWNEg/edit

I’m not sure that science is worse at the best private schools. Bullis’ engineering/makerlab space is unbelievable, for example.

But then you’re back to those tricky affordability and selectivity questions and comments.

[Anonymous]

If they could write it would destroy the trash public school systems goal of being sloppy, slovenly and somewhat stinky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all true. The kids can’t write. I work in MCPS and have kids in the schools.

The lucky few get into humanities magnets in middle school and do learn. And then go on to high school and college well prepared.

If you have a choice between high quality stem instruction and high quality English and writing instruction, choose the latter. There are so many ways to find math enrichment for your child. Not so many for writing- let me know if you find them!

So if private schools are an acceptable option (ideologically/financially) and you really care about this issue, go for it. And then buy the enrichment in math a la carte.

I made the opposite choice- turning up my nose at the math/science available at the privates, but I don’t think I’d do it again. The kids really don’t learn how to write with the exception of some of the magnets.

I’m curious what your opposition to math at private school was? I know they don’t accelerate as much, but my understanding is that’s actually recommended, from a pedagogical standpoint.

Holton Arms has a particularly thorough explanation of the reasoning why they approach math the way they do (aka without acceleration for the vast majority of students until high school): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dQXiD9zHmP29RbpgGFTxXUs4YEfamalltpkL3MtWNEg/edit

I’m not sure that science is worse at the best private schools. Bullis’ engineering/makerlab space is unbelievable, for example.

That’s rich. I looked at the privates. My kid started algebra in 6th and none of the schools could accommodate that and few had true differentiation as the class sizes were small. We did private summer math classes, sine good, one really bad. How the school responded to the really bad was to dismiss the concerns and I could not imagine any of the classes we had were worth that kind of money. Our mcps teachers were better.

Lab space is nice, good teachers are nicer.