APS budget is unacceptable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Governor’s schools are partially funded from Richmond. It would be idiotic for us to pay taxes and not get to partake in at least one of of the Governor’s schools.

+1

This is the dumbest line of reasoning. Let’s all list the ways the State spends money and then say Arlington should participate even if it’s more expensive for the county to do it.

Can anyone demonstrate that it's more expensive to send a handful of kids to TJ?

No.

The question is also less expensive than what? You can send the TJ kids back to their home high school and just increase class sizes without adding teachers. That probably costs very little, but is just more degradation of APS quality. Adding teachers (likely IB/AP certified given the cohort of students) and classroom seats would be more expensive. Creating anything equal to TJ would be extraordinarily expensive, if not impossible.

It’d be impossible. Even FCPS couldn’t do it. It’s taken decades and the contribution/cooperation-of all the regional districts. Arlington has helped contribute towards making TJ what it is for a long time. Why back out now and leave more seats for the other jurisdictions?! We’re small. But we should get some of them.

What are you talking about? What has Arlington “helped contribute” to TJ? Arlington didn’t send kids to TJ for decades. “Get some of them”. This is holy nuts. I mean, the State pays for all kinds of things that Arlington doesn’t benefit from or participate in. And guess what—it’s more expensive to send kids there. Duh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Governor’s schools are partially funded from Richmond. It would be idiotic for us to pay taxes and not get to partake in at least one of of the Governor’s schools.

+1

This is the dumbest line of reasoning. Let’s all list the ways the State spends money and then say Arlington should participate even if it’s more expensive for the county to do it.

Can anyone demonstrate that it's more expensive to send a handful of kids to TJ?

Teacher on AEM says APS spends $2.5 million in tuition for TJHSST which covers about 20 teachers in APS.

I think the line item in Duran’s budget presentation put it at 800,000. And that doesn’t consider the costs of bringing those kids back into APS.

Do you know what page that is on? I did a search for TJ and didn’t see it

It is on page 302 of the big budget document. APS spent $1.7m on TJ this year, and is budgeting $2.5m next year due to "additional costs" of the program. (APS doesn't specify if this is busing or a tuition transfer to FCPS.) So $2.5m divided by 100 kids is $25k per kid... which is the same average cost per kid that APS baked into their budget. The question is whether the kids going to TJ cost more or less to educate than the average APS student. If they cost less than average, then APS saves money by bringing them back into the Arlington high schools. It doesn't look like Duran is actually proposing this though...?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Governor’s schools are partially funded from Richmond. It would be idiotic for us to pay taxes and not get to partake in at least one of of the Governor’s schools.

+1

This is the dumbest line of reasoning. Let’s all list the ways the State spends money and then say Arlington should participate even if it’s more expensive for the county to do it.

Can anyone demonstrate that it's more expensive to send a handful of kids to TJ?

No.

The question is also less expensive than what? You can send the TJ kids back to their home high school and just increase class sizes without adding teachers. That probably costs very little, but is just more degradation of APS quality. Adding teachers (likely IB/AP certified given the cohort of students) and classroom seats would be more expensive. Creating anything equal to TJ would be extraordinarily expensive, if not impossible.

It’d be impossible. Even FCPS couldn’t do it. It’s taken decades and the contribution/cooperation-of all the regional districts. Arlington has helped contribute towards making TJ what it is for a long time. Why back out now and leave more seats for the other jurisdictions?! We’re small. But we should get some of them.

What are you talking about? What has Arlington “helped contribute” to TJ? Arlington didn’t send kids to TJ for decades. “Get some of them”. This is holy nuts. I mean, the State pays for all kinds of things that Arlington doesn’t benefit from or participate in. And guess what—it’s more expensive to send kids there. Duh.

I think Arlington has sent kids to TJ since it opened in the 80s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Governor’s schools are partially funded from Richmond. It would be idiotic for us to pay taxes and not get to partake in at least one of of the Governor’s schools.

+1

This is the dumbest line of reasoning. Let’s all list the ways the State spends money and then say Arlington should participate even if it’s more expensive for the county to do it.

Can anyone demonstrate that it's more expensive to send a handful of kids to TJ?

No.

The question is also less expensive than what? You can send the TJ kids back to their home high school and just increase class sizes without adding teachers. That probably costs very little, but is just more degradation of APS quality. Adding teachers (likely IB/AP certified given the cohort of students) and classroom seats would be more expensive. Creating anything equal to TJ would be extraordinarily expensive, if not impossible.

It’d be impossible. Even FCPS couldn’t do it. It’s taken decades and the contribution/cooperation-of all the regional districts. Arlington has helped contribute towards making TJ what it is for a long time. Why back out now and leave more seats for the other jurisdictions?! We’re small. But we should get some of them.

What are you talking about? What has Arlington “helped contribute” to TJ? Arlington didn’t send kids to TJ for decades. “Get some of them”. This is holy nuts. I mean, the State pays for all kinds of things that Arlington doesn’t benefit from or participate in. And guess what—it’s more expensive to send kids there. Duh.

Diff poster. That’s not true. TJ transitioned into a governors school (TJHSST) in the mid-to late 80s from a neighborhood high school. Roughly a decade later Arlington participated and sent students to TJHSST. There was no reason to join until there was strong interest among APS students.

[Anonymous]

So, 30ish years?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Governor’s schools are partially funded from Richmond. It would be idiotic for us to pay taxes and not get to partake in at least one of of the Governor’s schools.

+1

This is the dumbest line of reasoning. Let’s all list the ways the State spends money and then say Arlington should participate even if it’s more expensive for the county to do it.

Can anyone demonstrate that it's more expensive to send a handful of kids to TJ?

No.

The question is also less expensive than what? You can send the TJ kids back to their home high school and just increase class sizes without adding teachers. That probably costs very little, but is just more degradation of APS quality. Adding teachers (likely IB/AP certified given the cohort of students) and classroom seats would be more expensive. Creating anything equal to TJ would be extraordinarily expensive, if not impossible.

It’d be impossible. Even FCPS couldn’t do it. It’s taken decades and the contribution/cooperation-of all the regional districts. Arlington has helped contribute towards making TJ what it is for a long time. Why back out now and leave more seats for the other jurisdictions?! We’re small. But we should get some of them.

What are you talking about? What has Arlington “helped contribute” to TJ? Arlington didn’t send kids to TJ for decades. “Get some of them”. This is holy nuts. I mean, the State pays for all kinds of things that Arlington doesn’t benefit from or participate in. And guess what—it’s more expensive to send kids there. Duh.

I think Arlington has sent kids to TJ since it opened in the 80s.

You are 100% wrong on this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Governor’s schools are partially funded from Richmond. It would be idiotic for us to pay taxes and not get to partake in at least one of of the Governor’s schools.

+1

This is the dumbest line of reasoning. Let’s all list the ways the State spends money and then say Arlington should participate even if it’s more expensive for the county to do it.

Can anyone demonstrate that it's more expensive to send a handful of kids to TJ?

Teacher on AEM says APS spends $2.5 million in tuition for TJHSST which covers about 20 teachers in APS.

I think the line item in Duran’s budget presentation put it at 800,000. And that doesn’t consider the costs of bringing those kids back into APS.

Do you know what page that is on? I did a search for TJ and didn’t see it

It is on page 302 of the big budget document. APS spent $1.7m on TJ this year, and is budgeting $2.5m next year due to "additional costs" of the program. (APS doesn't specify if this is busing or a tuition transfer to FCPS.) So $2.5m divided by 100 kids is $25k per kid... which is the same average cost per kid that APS baked into their budget. The question is whether the kids going to TJ cost more or less to educate than the average APS student. If they cost less than average, then APS saves money by bringing them back into the Arlington high schools. It doesn't look like Duran is actually proposing this though...?

Jesus. You people need to read the math acceleration board. The avg cost per student is taking all the costs, including building depreciation and APS lawsuit settlements and paying for private special Ed testing for certain kids by all the kids in the county. By contrast, APS just PAYS $25k per kid to TJ. That is not the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Governor’s schools are partially funded from Richmond. It would be idiotic for us to pay taxes and not get to partake in at least one of of the Governor’s schools.

+1

This is the dumbest line of reasoning. Let’s all list the ways the State spends money and then say Arlington should participate even if it’s more expensive for the county to do it.

Can anyone demonstrate that it's more expensive to send a handful of kids to TJ?

No.

The question is also less expensive than what? You can send the TJ kids back to their home high school and just increase class sizes without adding teachers. That probably costs very little, but is just more degradation of APS quality. Adding teachers (likely IB/AP certified given the cohort of students) and classroom seats would be more expensive. Creating anything equal to TJ would be extraordinarily expensive, if not impossible.

It’d be impossible. Even FCPS couldn’t do it. It’s taken decades and the contribution/cooperation-of all the regional districts. Arlington has helped contribute towards making TJ what it is for a long time. Why back out now and leave more seats for the other jurisdictions?! We’re small. But we should get some of them.

What are you talking about? What has Arlington “helped contribute” to TJ? Arlington didn’t send kids to TJ for decades. “Get some of them”. This is holy nuts. I mean, the State pays for all kinds of things that Arlington doesn’t benefit from or participate in. And guess what—it’s more expensive to send kids there. Duh.

Diff poster. That’s not true. TJ transitioned into a governors school (TJHSST) in the mid-to late 80s from a neighborhood high school. Roughly a decade later Arlington participated and sent students to TJHSST. There was no reason to join until there was strong interest among APS students.

This story is wrong wrong wrong. It’s not accurate on the timeline. It’s not accurate on the reasoning. There have been periods where Arlington chose not to pay the expensive tuition to TJ despite strong interests from (certain) students. We do not have some long held devotion to TJ. Which is why it should be on the chopping block.

[Anonymous]

I do not see any difference between paying Fairfax $25k for 18 students and giving those same kids a $25k voucher to go use at the school of their choosing. What about the kids who are really into art? Or music? Or writing?

Don’t give me the “governors school so we all pay for it” line. That is ridiculous. Guess what? We all pay for all kinds of things with state money that we don’t actually get to use. Like, for example, we all pay for private schools which are often non profits or affiliated with religions and thus exempt for taxation. We could be earning tax income from them but we don’t. I’m just saying that the fact that TJ gets some State money does not mean that APS should spend millions on a handful of kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Governor’s schools are partially funded from Richmond. It would be idiotic for us to pay taxes and not get to partake in at least one of of the Governor’s schools.

+1

This is the dumbest line of reasoning. Let’s all list the ways the State spends money and then say Arlington should participate even if it’s more expensive for the county to do it.

Can anyone demonstrate that it's more expensive to send a handful of kids to TJ?

No.

The question is also less expensive than what? You can send the TJ kids back to their home high school and just increase class sizes without adding teachers. That probably costs very little, but is just more degradation of APS quality. Adding teachers (likely IB/AP certified given the cohort of students) and classroom seats would be more expensive. Creating anything equal to TJ would be extraordinarily expensive, if not impossible.

It’d be impossible. Even FCPS couldn’t do it. It’s taken decades and the contribution/cooperation-of all the regional districts. Arlington has helped contribute towards making TJ what it is for a long time. Why back out now and leave more seats for the other jurisdictions?! We’re small. But we should get some of them.

What are you talking about? What has Arlington “helped contribute” to TJ? Arlington didn’t send kids to TJ for decades. “Get some of them”. This is holy nuts. I mean, the State pays for all kinds of things that Arlington doesn’t benefit from or participate in. And guess what—it’s more expensive to send kids there. Duh.

Diff poster. That’s not true. TJ transitioned into a governors school (TJHSST) in the mid-to late 80s from a neighborhood high school. Roughly a decade later Arlington participated and sent students to TJHSST. There was no reason to join until there was strong interest among APS students.

This story is wrong wrong wrong. It’s not accurate on the timeline. It’s not accurate on the reasoning. There have been periods where Arlington chose not to pay the expensive tuition to TJ despite strong interests from (certain) students. We do not have some long held devotion to TJ. Which is why it should be on the chopping block.

APS’ support for TJ has not been interrupted, although it has been threatened during periods of budget instability. So the statement that there are “periods” when it chose not to participate is false.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Governor’s schools are partially funded from Richmond. It would be idiotic for us to pay taxes and not get to partake in at least one of of the Governor’s schools.

+1

This is the dumbest line of reasoning. Let’s all list the ways the State spends money and then say Arlington should participate even if it’s more expensive for the county to do it.

Can anyone demonstrate that it's more expensive to send a handful of kids to TJ?

No.

The question is also less expensive than what? You can send the TJ kids back to their home high school and just increase class sizes without adding teachers. That probably costs very little, but is just more degradation of APS quality. Adding teachers (likely IB/AP certified given the cohort of students) and classroom seats would be more expensive. Creating anything equal to TJ would be extraordinarily expensive, if not impossible.

It’d be impossible. Even FCPS couldn’t do it. It’s taken decades and the contribution/cooperation-of all the regional districts. Arlington has helped contribute towards making TJ what it is for a long time. Why back out now and leave more seats for the other jurisdictions?! We’re small. But we should get some of them.

What are you talking about? What has Arlington “helped contribute” to TJ? Arlington didn’t send kids to TJ for decades. “Get some of them”. This is holy nuts. I mean, the State pays for all kinds of things that Arlington doesn’t benefit from or participate in. And guess what—it’s more expensive to send kids there. Duh.

Diff poster. That’s not true. TJ transitioned into a governors school (TJHSST) in the mid-to late 80s from a neighborhood high school. Roughly a decade later Arlington participated and sent students to TJHSST. There was no reason to join until there was strong interest among APS students.

This story is wrong wrong wrong. It’s not accurate on the timeline. It’s not accurate on the reasoning. There have been periods where Arlington chose not to pay the expensive tuition to TJ despite strong interests from (certain) students. We do not have some long held devotion to TJ. Which is why it should be on the chopping block.

APS’ support for TJ has not been interrupted, although it has been threatened during periods of budget instability. So the statement that there are “periods” when it chose not to participate is false.

1990s = APS elected not to send kids to TJ. Promise. Look it up.

Wow, you are WRONG.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Governor’s schools are partially funded from Richmond. It would be idiotic for us to pay taxes and not get to partake in at least one of of the Governor’s schools.

+1

This is the dumbest line of reasoning. Let’s all list the ways the State spends money and then say Arlington should participate even if it’s more expensive for the county to do it.

Can anyone demonstrate that it's more expensive to send a handful of kids to TJ?

No.

The question is also less expensive than what? You can send the TJ kids back to their home high school and just increase class sizes without adding teachers. That probably costs very little, but is just more degradation of APS quality. Adding teachers (likely IB/AP certified given the cohort of students) and classroom seats would be more expensive. Creating anything equal to TJ would be extraordinarily expensive, if not impossible.

It’d be impossible. Even FCPS couldn’t do it. It’s taken decades and the contribution/cooperation-of all the regional districts. Arlington has helped contribute towards making TJ what it is for a long time. Why back out now and leave more seats for the other jurisdictions?! We’re small. But we should get some of them.

What are you talking about? What has Arlington “helped contribute” to TJ? Arlington didn’t send kids to TJ for decades. “Get some of them”. This is holy nuts. I mean, the State pays for all kinds of things that Arlington doesn’t benefit from or participate in. And guess what—it’s more expensive to send kids there. Duh.

Diff poster. That’s not true. TJ transitioned into a governors school (TJHSST) in the mid-to late 80s from a neighborhood high school. Roughly a decade later Arlington participated and sent students to TJHSST. There was no reason to join until there was strong interest among APS students.

This story is wrong wrong wrong. It’s not accurate on the timeline. It’s not accurate on the reasoning. There have been periods where Arlington chose not to pay the expensive tuition to TJ despite strong interests from (certain) students. We do not have some long held devotion to TJ. Which is why it should be on the chopping block.

APS’ support for TJ has not been interrupted, although it has been threatened during periods of budget instability. So the statement that there are “periods” when it chose not to participate is false.

1990s = APS elected not to send kids to TJ. Promise. Look it up.

Wow, you are WRONG.

That has already been stated. TJHSST was still a relatively new program at that point in history. Ever since APS voted to participate, after the formation of the elected (i.e., not appointed) school boards, APS has not ended its participation.

Unlike the previously appointed school boards, the elected board members listened to their constituents and chose to participate. APS has sent students to TJHSST ever since.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do not see any difference between paying Fairfax $25k for 18 students and giving those same kids a $25k voucher to go use at the school of their choosing. What about the kids who are really into art? Or music? Or writing?

Don’t give me the “governors school so we all pay for it” line. That is ridiculous. Guess what? We all pay for all kinds of things with state money that we don’t actually get to use. Like, for example, we all pay for private schools which are often non profits or affiliated with religions and thus exempt for taxation. We could be earning tax income from them but we don’t. I’m just saying that the fact that TJ gets some State money does not mean that APS should spend millions on a handful of kids.

There is no difference between paying Fairfax $25k and giving kids a voucher.

[Anonymous]

Maybe they should revise the budget to accurately reflect the tuition for TJ, which is 16,000. Boom! Magical budget savings of almost $1 million. And you can keep TJ!

[Anonymous]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1997/10/02/arlington-schools-may-ease-stance-on-jefferson-high/6ac6403c-ef7f-406a-bc4a-a3eb654e1734/


Article from 1997 about aps paying tuition to tj