Expats

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The poster so heartily defending these women as "misunderstood" and "small slip ups" is the one forgetting its a TV show lol. No one is lobbing personal insults, it's TV characters who were written to say and do these things.

I actually had no issue with Hilary exchanging her glass - that was disgusting. But everything else she's just putting puri inbetween all her issues and indirectly blaming her. Davids horrible behavior is no excuse.

I also dont think Margaret deserves that much grace in her situation. Yes, its horrible, but that doesnt mean you can treat people horribly. I'm glad she was honest with Esse and took ownership of her feelings of jealousy that started down the road of Gus's disappearance.

Margaret was only honest with Essie when she was simultaneously asking for a huge favor. What is perhaps most annoying about both Hilary and Margaret's behavior is they think they are caring employers but actually they are quite selfish and thoughtless.

Agree with this. There is a real lack of self-awareness that this episode makes obvious because you are seeing the scenes from the perspective of the helpers. Like the scene where Margaret flips from greeting Essie warmly, to telling her to go change, to asking her to make dinner? I don't think that would have registered if the episode's focus had been Margaret and her family. It would have seemed normal -- of course Essie will get dinner ready. It's only because we followed Essie through her day off, heard her talking about her relationship with the family and her complex feelings of guilt and grief over Gus, that we can recognize that Margaret is actually being thoughtless there -- not really listening to Essie talk about her day, not giving her a chance to rest or relax on her day off, suddenly announcing the family is moving to a virtual stranger at dinner without considering that Essie could hear and was learning this for the first time.

To me, flipping the focus of the episode to the helpers really changed how I looked at some of the interactions between the helpers and their employers. Mores so with Puri/Hilary, but you can see it with Essie too. The shift in perspective was very enlightening.

One thing that really struck me is how tight their bedrooms are. So tiny! That's the only space they have to themselves, these little windowless closets. I can't imagine employing someone and sticking them in a room like that and then patting myself on the back for being a good employer. They don't even have windows!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why so many people are defending Hilary. She was awful in that episode. Granted, she is reeling from discovering her husband's affair and then finding out about the pregnancy (and then finding out it's Mercy). So yes, some grace. But some of how she treats Puri is obviously really gross and I think it's very strange people are defending it:

The worst thing she does is drag Puri into that fight with her husband. That scene was so cringeworthy to me. Hilary *demands* that Puri stay for the fight even though David asks her to leave them and it's obvious Puri feels uncomfortable (who wouldn't?). But then Hilary specifically uses Puri in the fight, telling David that it's the "Hong Kong curse," that men come to Hong Kong and are waited on hand and foot by women like Puri and it ruins their marriages. She literally points at Puri and calls her David's "servant" (I mean, she is a servant but there's a reason they are called helpers instead -- no one wants to be pointed at and called servant). And then Hilary lists things Puri does for David as though this is the reason they are having marital issues. It's really, really gross, and viewing that scene from Puri's point of view made me really dislike Hilary.

The fact that she then basically orders Puri to spend the evening drinking with her because she doesn't want to be alone makes it even worse. It's very clear that this is not something Puri and Hilary have ever done together or that Puri feels comfortable with. It's definitely a weird boundary violation because while Puri is there to help them, Hilary here is looking for Puri to be her friend and confidant, which really should be outside Puri's job description.

The fact that in the morning Hilary appears to forget that Puri has the morning off for her competition is just kind of icing, and I am not surprised that Puri didn't feel comfortable saying "actually, you said I could take the morning off" in that moment because between the fight with David, the general volatility in the household, and Hilary's kind of manic/overly intimate behavior the night before, I imagine Puri feels like she needs to tread lightly.

I can't imagine watching that episode and thinking Hilary was "kind" to Puri. Why, because she does her makeup and insists Puri puts on one of her designer gowns? Puri didn't want to do that stuff in the first place and Hilary wasn't doing it out of kindness, she was doing it because she was desperate for intimacy and connection and was using the woman in her employment to fill that purpose for the time being. It's understandable Hilary felt that way but that doesn't make it right or good. That whole sequence of events sucked for Puri.

100% thought the same. And her laying in bed whining and crying like a baby while ordering her what to make her for breakfast was just awful after the prior night and agreed upon day of the competition.

She is a very self-centered woman. Even David also pointed this out multiple times. The way she ordered the bartender around too in a nasty tone about the lipstick on the glass--cutting David off completely. Very much entitled

Wut? That glass was disgusting. She asked for another in a perfectly reasonable tone. You wouldn’t bat an eyelash at a man making that request. She didn’t cut David off entirely - she noticed something gross and made a comment - the conversation could easily resume. The amount of Hilary-bashing in this thread is insane. Meanwhile there is the only occasional mention of how totally awful David is. In my book the only reprehensible thing Hilary did was lie about the birth control - that’s bad! But all these interpersonal interactions that posters are blowing out of proportion are really NOT.

100% agree. Hilary and Margaret are not the evil people some posters are claiming. Hilary was at her worst when she was drunk, but we’ve all been drunk and inappropriate. So weird not to give these women a little grace - and as you said, have zero criticisms of David.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm two years younger than Nicole Kidman.

When is she going to start playing the grandmother instead of the mother of elementary school aged children?

That role was starting to slip away for her in The Others (2001) when she was already 34 years old.

And then she played the same role in Big Little Lies (2017-2019) when she was 50 years old.

This isn't sexism, but realism. I don't know why she's doing this to herself. She's not her exDH Tom Cruise.

Hey! I'm Nicole Kidman's age and I still have an elementary school aged child (5th grade). Lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why so many people are defending Hilary. She was awful in that episode. Granted, she is reeling from discovering her husband's affair and then finding out about the pregnancy (and then finding out it's Mercy). So yes, some grace. But some of how she treats Puri is obviously really gross and I think it's very strange people are defending it:

The worst thing she does is drag Puri into that fight with her husband. That scene was so cringeworthy to me. Hilary *demands* that Puri stay for the fight even though David asks her to leave them and it's obvious Puri feels uncomfortable (who wouldn't?). But then Hilary specifically uses Puri in the fight, telling David that it's the "Hong Kong curse," that men come to Hong Kong and are waited on hand and foot by women like Puri and it ruins their marriages. She literally points at Puri and calls her David's "servant" (I mean, she is a servant but there's a reason they are called helpers instead -- no one wants to be pointed at and called servant). And then Hilary lists things Puri does for David as though this is the reason they are having marital issues. It's really, really gross, and viewing that scene from Puri's point of view made me really dislike Hilary.

The fact that she then basically orders Puri to spend the evening drinking with her because she doesn't want to be alone makes it even worse. It's very clear that this is not something Puri and Hilary have ever done together or that Puri feels comfortable with. It's definitely a weird boundary violation because while Puri is there to help them, Hilary here is looking for Puri to be her friend and confidant, which really should be outside Puri's job description.

The fact that in the morning Hilary appears to forget that Puri has the morning off for her competition is just kind of icing, and I am not surprised that Puri didn't feel comfortable saying "actually, you said I could take the morning off" in that moment because between the fight with David, the general volatility in the household, and Hilary's kind of manic/overly intimate behavior the night before, I imagine Puri feels like she needs to tread lightly.

I can't imagine watching that episode and thinking Hilary was "kind" to Puri. Why, because she does her makeup and insists Puri puts on one of her designer gowns? Puri didn't want to do that stuff in the first place and Hilary wasn't doing it out of kindness, she was doing it because she was desperate for intimacy and connection and was using the woman in her employment to fill that purpose for the time being. It's understandable Hilary felt that way but that doesn't make it right or good. That whole sequence of events sucked for Puri.

100% thought the same. And her laying in bed whining and crying like a baby while ordering her what to make her for breakfast was just awful after the prior night and agreed upon day of the competition.

She is a very self-centered woman. Even David also pointed this out multiple times. The way she ordered the bartender around too in a nasty tone about the lipstick on the glass--cutting David off completely. Very much entitled

Wut? That glass was disgusting. She asked for another in a perfectly reasonable tone. You wouldn’t bat an eyelash at a man making that request. She didn’t cut David off entirely - she noticed something gross and made a comment - the conversation could easily resume. The amount of Hilary-bashing in this thread is insane. Meanwhile there is the only occasional mention of how totally awful David is. In my book the only reprehensible thing Hilary did was lie about the birth control - that’s bad! But all these interpersonal interactions that posters are blowing out of proportion are really NOT.

I agree. I think she is seen as being difficult, when she is just assertive in a normal way. David is a sorry excuse for a man. Fwiw in the book the dynamic was very different: Hilary was more complex and nicer, and David a true piece of shit seen as such by all.

David is also terrible, it's just the most recent episode didn't feature him as much. But here: he's a whiny little manchild who made a giant mess and now wants someone else to clean it up. Also him taking the espresso machine was petty and stupid. There, you happy?

None of this changes the fact that Hilary literally pointed at Puri and said to David that having "a servant" who makes you coffee and takes care of your needs is the reason their relationship sucks (when in reality their relationship sucks because they are both narcissists who are unwilling to actually care for each other or put their egos aside in order to build a life together). And THEN demanded that Puri keep her company all night.

Gross gross gross. If you want to defend Hilary, defend that. I think some of you identify with her, maybe because you've also had crap husbands or maybe because she's a career woman who is "assertive" (I actually think she's incredibly entitled and often passive-aggressive -- an assertive woman would not lie to her husband about her birth control situation so that she can play both sides of the "should we have kids" debate -- more gross Hilary behavior). You are overlooking concrete, awful behavior from her. The fact that David is also terrible in no way justifies Hilary's behavior. They deserve each other, frankly.

Goodness. What must it be like to be so triggered by a fictional character. I don’t identify with her lifestyle or her crappy husband in any way. But you seem like the kind of person who would say, “You’re dead to me” to anyone who dared make a mistake or mess up in any way.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why so many people are defending Hilary. She was awful in that episode. Granted, she is reeling from discovering her husband's affair and then finding out about the pregnancy (and then finding out it's Mercy). So yes, some grace. But some of how she treats Puri is obviously really gross and I think it's very strange people are defending it:

The worst thing she does is drag Puri into that fight with her husband. That scene was so cringeworthy to me. Hilary *demands* that Puri stay for the fight even though David asks her to leave them and it's obvious Puri feels uncomfortable (who wouldn't?). But then Hilary specifically uses Puri in the fight, telling David that it's the "Hong Kong curse," that men come to Hong Kong and are waited on hand and foot by women like Puri and it ruins their marriages. She literally points at Puri and calls her David's "servant" (I mean, she is a servant but there's a reason they are called helpers instead -- no one wants to be pointed at and called servant). And then Hilary lists things Puri does for David as though this is the reason they are having marital issues. It's really, really gross, and viewing that scene from Puri's point of view made me really dislike Hilary.

The fact that she then basically orders Puri to spend the evening drinking with her because she doesn't want to be alone makes it even worse. It's very clear that this is not something Puri and Hilary have ever done together or that Puri feels comfortable with. It's definitely a weird boundary violation because while Puri is there to help them, Hilary here is looking for Puri to be her friend and confidant, which really should be outside Puri's job description.

The fact that in the morning Hilary appears to forget that Puri has the morning off for her competition is just kind of icing, and I am not surprised that Puri didn't feel comfortable saying "actually, you said I could take the morning off" in that moment because between the fight with David, the general volatility in the household, and Hilary's kind of manic/overly intimate behavior the night before, I imagine Puri feels like she needs to tread lightly.

I can't imagine watching that episode and thinking Hilary was "kind" to Puri. Why, because she does her makeup and insists Puri puts on one of her designer gowns? Puri didn't want to do that stuff in the first place and Hilary wasn't doing it out of kindness, she was doing it because she was desperate for intimacy and connection and was using the woman in her employment to fill that purpose for the time being. It's understandable Hilary felt that way but that doesn't make it right or good. That whole sequence of events sucked for Puri.

100% thought the same. And her laying in bed whining and crying like a baby while ordering her what to make her for breakfast was just awful after the prior night and agreed upon day of the competition.

She is a very self-centered woman. Even David also pointed this out multiple times. The way she ordered the bartender around too in a nasty tone about the lipstick on the glass--cutting David off completely. Very much entitled

Wut? That glass was disgusting. She asked for another in a perfectly reasonable tone. You wouldn’t bat an eyelash at a man making that request. She didn’t cut David off entirely - she noticed something gross and made a comment - the conversation could easily resume. The amount of Hilary-bashing in this thread is insane. Meanwhile there is the only occasional mention of how totally awful David is. In my book the only reprehensible thing Hilary did was lie about the birth control - that’s bad! But all these interpersonal interactions that posters are blowing out of proportion are really NOT.

I agree. I think she is seen as being difficult, when she is just assertive in a normal way. David is a sorry excuse for a man. Fwiw in the book the dynamic was very different: Hilary was more complex and nicer, and David a true piece of shit seen as such by all.

David is also terrible, it's just the most recent episode didn't feature him as much. But here: he's a whiny little manchild who made a giant mess and now wants someone else to clean it up. Also him taking the espresso machine was petty and stupid. There, you happy?

None of this changes the fact that Hilary literally pointed at Puri and said to David that having "a servant" who makes you coffee and takes care of your needs is the reason their relationship sucks (when in reality their relationship sucks because they are both narcissists who are unwilling to actually care for each other or put their egos aside in order to build a life together). And THEN demanded that Puri keep her company all night.

Gross gross gross. If you want to defend Hilary, defend that. I think some of you identify with her, maybe because you've also had crap husbands or maybe because she's a career woman who is "assertive" (I actually think she's incredibly entitled and often passive-aggressive -- an assertive woman would not lie to her husband about her birth control situation so that she can play both sides of the "should we have kids" debate -- more gross Hilary behavior). You are overlooking concrete, awful behavior from her. The fact that David is also terrible in no way justifies Hilary's behavior. They deserve each other, frankly.

You know it's a show, right, not real people? Fwiw I am a crunchy DYI middle class mom who never had and never will have any sort of paid help. Stop projecting character analysis onto watchers.

+1000
So over the top.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why so many people are defending Hilary. She was awful in that episode. Granted, she is reeling from discovering her husband's affair and then finding out about the pregnancy (and then finding out it's Mercy). So yes, some grace. But some of how she treats Puri is obviously really gross and I think it's very strange people are defending it:

The worst thing she does is drag Puri into that fight with her husband. That scene was so cringeworthy to me. Hilary *demands* that Puri stay for the fight even though David asks her to leave them and it's obvious Puri feels uncomfortable (who wouldn't?). But then Hilary specifically uses Puri in the fight, telling David that it's the "Hong Kong curse," that men come to Hong Kong and are waited on hand and foot by women like Puri and it ruins their marriages. She literally points at Puri and calls her David's "servant" (I mean, she is a servant but there's a reason they are called helpers instead -- no one wants to be pointed at and called servant). And then Hilary lists things Puri does for David as though this is the reason they are having marital issues. It's really, really gross, and viewing that scene from Puri's point of view made me really dislike Hilary.

The fact that she then basically orders Puri to spend the evening drinking with her because she doesn't want to be alone makes it even worse. It's very clear that this is not something Puri and Hilary have ever done together or that Puri feels comfortable with. It's definitely a weird boundary violation because while Puri is there to help them, Hilary here is looking for Puri to be her friend and confidant, which really should be outside Puri's job description.

The fact that in the morning Hilary appears to forget that Puri has the morning off for her competition is just kind of icing, and I am not surprised that Puri didn't feel comfortable saying "actually, you said I could take the morning off" in that moment because between the fight with David, the general volatility in the household, and Hilary's kind of manic/overly intimate behavior the night before, I imagine Puri feels like she needs to tread lightly.

I can't imagine watching that episode and thinking Hilary was "kind" to Puri. Why, because she does her makeup and insists Puri puts on one of her designer gowns? Puri didn't want to do that stuff in the first place and Hilary wasn't doing it out of kindness, she was doing it because she was desperate for intimacy and connection and was using the woman in her employment to fill that purpose for the time being. It's understandable Hilary felt that way but that doesn't make it right or good. That whole sequence of events sucked for Puri.

100% thought the same. And her laying in bed whining and crying like a baby while ordering her what to make her for breakfast was just awful after the prior night and agreed upon day of the competition.

She is a very self-centered woman. Even David also pointed this out multiple times. The way she ordered the bartender around too in a nasty tone about the lipstick on the glass--cutting David off completely. Very much entitled

Wut? That glass was disgusting. She asked for another in a perfectly reasonable tone. You wouldn’t bat an eyelash at a man making that request. She didn’t cut David off entirely - she noticed something gross and made a comment - the conversation could easily resume. The amount of Hilary-bashing in this thread is insane. Meanwhile there is the only occasional mention of how totally awful David is. In my book the only reprehensible thing Hilary did was lie about the birth control - that’s bad! But all these interpersonal interactions that posters are blowing out of proportion are really NOT.

I agree. I think she is seen as being difficult, when she is just assertive in a normal way. David is a sorry excuse for a man. Fwiw in the book the dynamic was very different: Hilary was more complex and nicer, and David a true piece of shit seen as such by all.

David is also terrible, it's just the most recent episode didn't feature him as much. But here: he's a whiny little manchild who made a giant mess and now wants someone else to clean it up. Also him taking the espresso machine was petty and stupid. There, you happy?

None of this changes the fact that Hilary literally pointed at Puri and said to David that having "a servant" who makes you coffee and takes care of your needs is the reason their relationship sucks (when in reality their relationship sucks because they are both narcissists who are unwilling to actually care for each other or put their egos aside in order to build a life together). And THEN demanded that Puri keep her company all night.

Gross gross gross. If you want to defend Hilary, defend that. I think some of you identify with her, maybe because you've also had crap husbands or maybe because she's a career woman who is "assertive" (I actually think she's incredibly entitled and often passive-aggressive -- an assertive woman would not lie to her husband about her birth control situation so that she can play both sides of the "should we have kids" debate -- more gross Hilary behavior). You are overlooking concrete, awful behavior from her. The fact that David is also terrible in no way justifies Hilary's behavior. They deserve each other, frankly.

You know it's a show, right, not real people? Fwiw I am a crunchy DYI middle class mom who never had and never will have any sort of paid help. Stop projecting character analysis onto watchers.

Don't tell me what to do. If you want to defend Hilary's actions in the episode, do so. I actually feel sorry for you that you can't see her as anything other than the victim of her husband's behavior, or that you think the fact that her husband cheats on her justifies her treating Puri as she does.

DP. You are unhinged. No one has “justified” her behavior; but neither has anymore (except you) completely vilified her for basically having one really bad night.

And the PP is right: stop ascribing character traits of these fictional people onto your fellow posters. Also, if you’re the person who keeps writing excessively long winded posts, insisting that the theme of the episode has “gone over our heads” - you can stop doing that, too. We all understand perfectly well what is going on, why, and by whom. It doesn’t need to be patronizingly explained by you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The poster so heartily defending these women as "misunderstood" and "small slip ups" is the one forgetting its a TV show lol. No one is lobbing personal insults, it's TV characters who were written to say and do these things.

I actually had no issue with Hilary exchanging her glass - that was disgusting. But everything else she's just putting puri inbetween all her issues and indirectly blaming her. Davids horrible behavior is no excuse.

I also dont think Margaret deserves that much grace in her situation. Yes, its horrible, but that doesnt mean you can treat people horribly. I'm glad she was honest with Esse and took ownership of her feelings of jealousy that started down the road of Gus's disappearance.

Who stated that these women were “misunderstood”? No one. And how has Margaret treated *anyone* horribly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm two years younger than Nicole Kidman.

When is she going to start playing the grandmother instead of the mother of elementary school aged children?

That role was starting to slip away for her in The Others (2001) when she was already 34 years old.

And then she played the same role in Big Little Lies (2017-2019) when she was 50 years old.

This isn't sexism, but realism. I don't know why she's doing this to herself. She's not her exDH Tom Cruise.

Hey! I'm Nicole Kidman's age and I still have an elementary school aged child (5th grade). Lol.

Yeah her husband in expats looked a lot younger than her. If her kids were in high school in the show it would be believable --but a 3-year old and elem, kids?!? No--and I do like her as an actress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm two years younger than Nicole Kidman.

When is she going to start playing the grandmother instead of the mother of elementary school aged children?

That role was starting to slip away for her in The Others (2001) when she was already 34 years old.

And then she played the same role in Big Little Lies (2017-2019) when she was 50 years old.

This isn't sexism, but realism. I don't know why she's doing this to herself. She's not her exDH Tom Cruise.

Hey! I'm Nicole Kidman's age and I still have an elementary school aged child (5th grade). Lol.

Yeah her husband in expats looked a lot younger than her. If her kids were in high school in the show it would be believable --but a 3-year old and elem, kids?!? No--and I do like her as an actress.

He's 10 years younger than she is. As for her, I don't think injectables make people look that much younger, just a little more refreshed. I like her too but I would admire her more if her facial expressions had more range.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like some of the themes of this episode went over a lot of your heads. Why do you think the episode focuses on (1) two young Hong Kong natives involved in the Umbrella Movement, which arose to protest the political oppression of the Chinese government in Hong Kong after the city was turned over by the British, (2) the helpers in two expat households in Hong Kong, and (3) the wife of an expat business man who is openly cheating on her and tells her that she agreed to this arrangement, where he does whatever he wants and she gets to live in his house and spend some of his money.

The episode is about oppression by the powerful of people with less power.

Each of these oppressed entities struggle with what it means to live under these conditions, and what lengths they are willing to go to in order to liberate themselves.

With the Umbrella Movement folks, one of them chooses to literally fight by attending a nighttime protest where it appears he was likely injured and taken into custody, and may even be dead. The other decides to stay home and study, and then meet up with a friend, accepting the political oppression in exchange for some freedom to live a life she obviously enjoys. Though when she gets the call from her friend's mother at the end of the episode, it's not clear this tradeoff will have been worth it -- it is easy to look away from political oppression when it doesn't touch you directly, much harder to do this when it begins to impact you and your loved ones.

With the helpers, they have made a more explicit deal for their oppression, where the transaction (money and lodging in exchange for loyal, dedicated, mostly silent, always uncomplaining, service). We also see how they are mostly more comfortable with the situation, joking about it with each other under the underpass, singing and playing games, taking their paychecks to Western Union to send them to their families, etc. However, we also see a darker side to it when Puri gets dragged into her employers' marital troubles and she winds up spending the evening drinking with and performing emotional labor for Hilary (when she'd probably prefer to be resting in preparation of her competition) and then likely missing the competition altogether due to Hilary's hangover.

We also see how Essie struggles with her emotional involvement with Margaret's family, and how that involvement in some ways conflicts or supersedes her relationship with her own family. We also see how quickly a helper's entire life can be turned upside down when Essie hears Margaret announce the family will be moving back to the US, and for Essie this means not only losing her employment, but also her home and potentially her immigration status. Though the family treats her fairly well and there is real affection between her and the kids for sure, Essie's life is not her own and is completely subject to the whims of her employer.

And finally we watch as the expat wife struggles with her miserable marriage and the tradeoff it entails. Like the helpers (and unlike the Umbrella Movement kids) her deal is more explicit and fairly transactional. We don't get a ton of info about her background as we do with the others, so it's not really clear to what degree she had other, better options in life. Could she have pursued a career? Did she have other options in marriage? We don't really know. At first she seems totally content with her situation, as she explains to Hilary that she can leverage David's cheating for to get "whatever she wants." But then at home, we see that she is not getting what she wants, namely a husband who even pretends to be in a partnership or a loving relationship. We watch her go so far as to begin packing a suitcase to leave, before gettin distracted by the collapsing ceiling. And then she is the only one to make an affirmative choice to stay in her oppressive situation, choosing to patch up the ceiling and her own feelings and resign herself to the agreement she has made.

The episode is drawing parallels between these situations, and that's why it highlights the aspects of the helpers' situations that are oppressive, and the aspects of Hilary's and Margaret's behavior that plays into and in some cases exacerbate the oppression. Other episodes which tell this story more from Margaret's and Hilary's perspectives cast their lives in another light. Neither perspective is "correct" nor is either one a lie. Hilary is a wronged wife married to a cheating alcoholic, who had a bad childhood in an abusive home. She is also a pretty crappy employer who abuses her relationship with her helper in really inappropriate ways. She deserves both empathy and criticism. Like most people.

And I know I didn't touch on the storyline with the pastor and Margaret's husband. There are some parallels there -- the family's grief over Gus is the oppressive force there, and when Margaret's husband confesses that he had hoped it would be Gus's body at the morgue, it's clear that it's because Gus's death would liberate them from the horrible grief of wondering if their son is out in the world, being harmed, while they go on living their lives (it's unimaginable, I just can't). But this is a very different kind of oppression and liberty and I think that while thematically it fits with the series, it didn't belong in this episode.

I actually wish the entire series focused more broadly on all these different characters and the interplay between them, exploring the ways in which power structures alter our relationships to each other and with ourselves, and impact how we seek both security and freedom. But then it would be a very different show, and not really based on the book in the same way. But I would watch it.

+1000 it is all about the power dynamic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The poster so heartily defending these women as "misunderstood" and "small slip ups" is the one forgetting its a TV show lol. No one is lobbing personal insults, it's TV characters who were written to say and do these things.

I actually had no issue with Hilary exchanging her glass - that was disgusting. But everything else she's just putting puri inbetween all her issues and indirectly blaming her. Davids horrible behavior is no excuse.

I also dont think Margaret deserves that much grace in her situation. Yes, its horrible, but that doesnt mean you can treat people horribly. I'm glad she was honest with Esse and took ownership of her feelings of jealousy that started down the road of Gus's disappearance.

Margaret was only honest with Essie when she was simultaneously asking for a huge favor. What is perhaps most annoying about both Hilary and Margaret's behavior is they think they are caring employers but actually they are quite selfish and thoughtless.

It was a JOB offer, not a request for a “favor.” Y’all have some weird takes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm two years younger than Nicole Kidman.

When is she going to start playing the grandmother instead of the mother of elementary school aged children?

That role was starting to slip away for her in The Others (2001) when she was already 34 years old.

And then she played the same role in Big Little Lies (2017-2019) when she was 50 years old.

This isn't sexism, but realism. I don't know why she's doing this to herself. She's not her exDH Tom Cruise.

Hey! I'm Nicole Kidman's age and I still have an elementary school aged child (5th grade). Lol.

Yeah her husband in expats looked a lot younger than her. If her kids were in high school in the show it would be believable --but a 3-year old and elem, kids?!? No--and I do like her as an actress.

Gus was an oops.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The poster so heartily defending these women as "misunderstood" and "small slip ups" is the one forgetting its a TV show lol. No one is lobbing personal insults, it's TV characters who were written to say and do these things.

I actually had no issue with Hilary exchanging her glass - that was disgusting. But everything else she's just putting puri inbetween all her issues and indirectly blaming her. Davids horrible behavior is no excuse.

I also dont think Margaret deserves that much grace in her situation. Yes, its horrible, but that doesnt mean you can treat people horribly. I'm glad she was honest with Esse and took ownership of her feelings of jealousy that started down the road of Gus's disappearance.

Margaret was only honest with Essie when she was simultaneously asking for a huge favor. What is perhaps most annoying about both Hilary and Margaret's behavior is they think they are caring employers but actually they are quite selfish and thoughtless.

It was a JOB offer, not a request for a “favor.” Y’all have some weird takes.[/quot

True but she only apologized when she wanted something from Essie.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why so many people are defending Hilary. She was awful in that episode. Granted, she is reeling from discovering her husband's affair and then finding out about the pregnancy (and then finding out it's Mercy). So yes, some grace. But some of how she treats Puri is obviously really gross and I think it's very strange people are defending it:

The worst thing she does is drag Puri into that fight with her husband. That scene was so cringeworthy to me. Hilary *demands* that Puri stay for the fight even though David asks her to leave them and it's obvious Puri feels uncomfortable (who wouldn't?). But then Hilary specifically uses Puri in the fight, telling David that it's the "Hong Kong curse," that men come to Hong Kong and are waited on hand and foot by women like Puri and it ruins their marriages. She literally points at Puri and calls her David's "servant" (I mean, she is a servant but there's a reason they are called helpers instead -- no one wants to be pointed at and called servant). And then Hilary lists things Puri does for David as though this is the reason they are having marital issues. It's really, really gross, and viewing that scene from Puri's point of view made me really dislike Hilary.

The fact that she then basically orders Puri to spend the evening drinking with her because she doesn't want to be alone makes it even worse. It's very clear that this is not something Puri and Hilary have ever done together or that Puri feels comfortable with. It's definitely a weird boundary violation because while Puri is there to help them, Hilary here is looking for Puri to be her friend and confidant, which really should be outside Puri's job description.

The fact that in the morning Hilary appears to forget that Puri has the morning off for her competition is just kind of icing, and I am not surprised that Puri didn't feel comfortable saying "actually, you said I could take the morning off" in that moment because between the fight with David, the general volatility in the household, and Hilary's kind of manic/overly intimate behavior the night before, I imagine Puri feels like she needs to tread lightly.

I can't imagine watching that episode and thinking Hilary was "kind" to Puri. Why, because she does her makeup and insists Puri puts on one of her designer gowns? Puri didn't want to do that stuff in the first place and Hilary wasn't doing it out of kindness, she was doing it because she was desperate for intimacy and connection and was using the woman in her employment to fill that purpose for the time being. It's understandable Hilary felt that way but that doesn't make it right or good. That whole sequence of events sucked for Puri.

100% thought the same. And her laying in bed whining and crying like a baby while ordering her what to make her for breakfast was just awful after the prior night and agreed upon day of the competition.

She is a very self-centered woman. Even David also pointed this out multiple times. The way she ordered the bartender around too in a nasty tone about the lipstick on the glass--cutting David off completely. Very much entitled

Wut? That glass was disgusting. She asked for another in a perfectly reasonable tone. You wouldn’t bat an eyelash at a man making that request. She didn’t cut David off entirely - she noticed something gross and made a comment - the conversation could easily resume. The amount of Hilary-bashing in this thread is insane. Meanwhile there is the only occasional mention of how totally awful David is. In my book the only reprehensible thing Hilary did was lie about the birth control - that’s bad! But all these interpersonal interactions that posters are blowing out of proportion are really NOT.

I agree. I think she is seen as being difficult, when she is just assertive in a normal way. David is a sorry excuse for a man. Fwiw in the book the dynamic was very different: Hilary was more complex and nicer, and David a true piece of shit seen as such by all.

David is also terrible, it's just the most recent episode didn't feature him as much. But here: he's a whiny little manchild who made a giant mess and now wants someone else to clean it up. Also him taking the espresso machine was petty and stupid. There, you happy?

None of this changes the fact that Hilary literally pointed at Puri and said to David that having "a servant" who makes you coffee and takes care of your needs is the reason their relationship sucks (when in reality their relationship sucks because they are both narcissists who are unwilling to actually care for each other or put their egos aside in order to build a life together). And THEN demanded that Puri keep her company all night.

Gross gross gross. If you want to defend Hilary, defend that. I think some of you identify with her, maybe because you've also had crap husbands or maybe because she's a career woman who is "assertive" (I actually think she's incredibly entitled and often passive-aggressive -- an assertive woman would not lie to her husband about her birth control situation so that she can play both sides of the "should we have kids" debate -- more gross Hilary behavior). You are overlooking concrete, awful behavior from her. The fact that David is also terrible in no way justifies Hilary's behavior. They deserve each other, frankly.

You know it's a show, right, not real people? Fwiw I am a crunchy DYI middle class mom who never had and never will have any sort of paid help. Stop projecting character analysis onto watchers.

Don't tell me what to do. If you want to defend Hilary's actions in the episode, do so. I actually feel sorry for you that you can't see her as anything other than the victim of her husband's behavior, or that you think the fact that her husband cheats on her justifies her treating Puri as she does.

DP. You are unhinged. No one has “justified” her behavior; but neither has anymore (except you) completely vilified her for basically having one really bad night.

And the PP is right: stop ascribing character traits of these fictional people onto your fellow posters. Also, if you’re the person who keeps writing excessively long winded posts, insisting that the theme of the episode has “gone over our heads” - you can stop doing that, too. We all understand perfectly well what is going on, why, and by whom. It doesn’t need to be patronizingly explained by you.

THIS x 100 ^^

[Anonymous]

What a heart-wrenching episode. I would have had to stay behind too.