Dr. Reid replacing school discipline with “restorative justice” ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Restorative justice in schools works extremely well, according to a recent survey of violent and disruptive students.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a good idea because it works.

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/jstc-rcdvs/index-en.aspx
The offenders who participated in the restorative justice program had lower recidivism rates than the matched group of probationers. With each year during the follow-up the differences in recidivism rates for the two groups widened. At the first year, the restorative justice offenders had a recidivism rate of 15% compared to 38% for the probation group. At the second year the respective rates were 28% and 54% and by the third year the rates were 35% and 66%.

https://thedcline.org/2018/07/27/restorative-justice-program-for-juveniles-aims-to-foster-empathy-heal-trauma/
In the 60 juvenile cases that have gone through this program since its inception in 2016, 48 have had successful outcomes, according to Gajwani. Success is measured by the rate of rearrests. Nationally, the rate of recidivism for youth who opt for restorative justice as opposed to a traditional court proceeding is at 40 percent.

You're citing juvenile court cases. Taking restorative justice from that concept to schools is like using a blowtorch for weeding. Wrong tool, wrong setting.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/07/15/restorative-justice-montgomery-county-schools/
"A recent report by Sean Darling-Hammond, assistant professor of health and education at UCLA, indicates that restorative practices improve middle school students’ academic achievement, while reducing suspension rates and disparities, misbehavior, substance abuse and student mental health challenges."

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED596786.pdf
"The earlier discussion about RJ theory suggests that a well-implemented program could
reduce punitive disciplinary actions and problem behavior over time (Tyler, 2006). All the
empirical studies we reviewed report a decrease in exclusionary discipline and harmful
behavior (e.g., violence) after implementing some type of RJ program. "

"But, across the studies, school attendance tended to improve after
RJ implementation. Baker (2009), for example, reports that students who participated in
an RJ program12 experienced a 50-percent reduction in absenteeism during the first year of
implementation and a decrease in tardiness of about 64 percent. "

"70 percent of staff reported
that RJ improved overall school climate during the first year of implementation."

It’s voluntary and it works. What’s the problem?

How is it voluntary? If a bully beats your child into a bloody pulp, does the victim have the right to "opt out" so that the perp is actually punished? Or does the bully just get away with fluffy talk and hand-holding circles no matter what the victim wants?

It’s voluntary. If the victim doesn’t opt-in - or if the victim’s parents don’t opt-in - or of the “perp” doesn’t acknowledge fault - then they don’t use the RJ program.

And the bully is punished?

[Anonymous]

I’m sure parents of APS juniors and seniors need this. Behavior problems are out on control and discipline records won’t help with college interviews.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know whether restorative Justice works, but detention and suspension definitely does not. Why are parents so insistent on wanting bullies suspended? Do you think that will stop the bullying? It does not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know whether restorative Justice works, but detention and suspension definitely does not. Why are parents so insistent on wanting bullies suspended? Do you think that will stop the bullying? It does not.

Here is a crazy loon who clearly has never had a child who was bullied/tormented/harassed. GTFO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Families are inequitable and because families are inequitable, punishments are too. So restorative justice is about equity and disproportionate outcomes and punishments of inequitable families.

The same goes for grades and test scores.

Being a family is hard work and because kids don't choose these things, it is unfair to assign them grades or punishments that are a result of things they can't control.

Hope this clears everything up.

So that girl who choked the boy on the bus - she shouldn't be punished harshly for the heinous thing she did because perhaps she comes from a low-income family and just "didn't know better"? Are you for real? Do "clear that up" for us.
DP

Correct. More often than not poor academic performance and behavioral issues stem from home life. She may “know” better, but she doesn’t have the tools to control herself. Same with kids who don’t have time at home to do homework.

But rather than redistribute parents and wealth (not happening) to create equitable homes, we remove the outcomes that reflect these inequities. So no unjust punishments that reflect an home life in crisis and no unfair grading systems that reflect family performance rather than student performance.

Maybe you were privileged with a loving home and don’t understand the struggle. Thankfully this school board does and will ensure that equal outcomes prevail. Kids start in the same place and now we can hope they finish in the same place too…. Barely able to read.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know whether restorative Justice works, but detention and suspension definitely does not. Why are parents so insistent on wanting bullies suspended? Do you think that will stop the bullying? It does not.

Suspension works! It works for the rest of the school who gets a break from the misbehaving student. Teachers can then teach and students can learn. It also serves a warning to other students to behave. We are focusing too much on the students who are running amok, disrupting classes, threatening and assaulting others. Juvenile incarceration/probation has decline by 70% in this country. Where do you think those students are now? They aren't in juvenile jails, they aren't in continuation schools as those have been closed as well- they are in your local public high school. Now schools are dealing with them, except they aren't. It doesn't look good to have high suspension rates, so those kids wander around school and are constant disruptions.

If people really knew how much is swept under the rug and hidden from parents. Ask teachers- we all love suspensions!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Families are inequitable and because families are inequitable, punishments are too. So restorative justice is about equity and disproportionate outcomes and punishments of inequitable families.

The same goes for grades and test scores.

Being a family is hard work and because kids don't choose these things, it is unfair to assign them grades or punishments that are a result of things they can't control.

Hope this clears everything up.

So that girl who choked the boy on the bus - she shouldn't be punished harshly for the heinous thing she did because perhaps she comes from a low-income family and just "didn't know better"? Are you for real? Do "clear that up" for us.
DP

Correct. More often than not poor academic performance and behavioral issues stem from home life. She may “know” better, but she doesn’t have the tools to control herself. Same with kids who don’t have time at home to do homework.

But rather than redistribute parents and wealth (not happening) to create equitable homes, we remove the outcomes that reflect these inequities. So no unjust punishments that reflect an home life in crisis and no unfair grading systems that reflect family performance rather than student performance.

Maybe you were privileged with a loving home and don’t understand the struggle. Thankfully this school board does and will ensure that equal outcomes prevail. Kids start in the same place and now we can hope they finish in the same place too…. Barely able to read.

The fact that you seem to actually believe your own drivel is what's really scary here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Families are inequitable and because families are inequitable, punishments are too. So restorative justice is about equity and disproportionate outcomes and punishments of inequitable families.

The same goes for grades and test scores.

Being a family is hard work and because kids don't choose these things, it is unfair to assign them grades or punishments that are a result of things they can't control.

Hope this clears everything up.

So that girl who choked the boy on the bus - she shouldn't be punished harshly for the heinous thing she did because perhaps she comes from a low-income family and just "didn't know better"? Are you for real? Do "clear that up" for us.
DP

Correct. More often than not poor academic performance and behavioral issues stem from home life. She may “know” better, but she doesn’t have the tools to control herself. Same with kids who don’t have time at home to do homework.

But rather than redistribute parents and wealth (not happening) to create equitable homes, we remove the outcomes that reflect these inequities. So no unjust punishments that reflect an home life in crisis and no unfair grading systems that reflect family performance rather than student performance.

Maybe you were privileged with a loving home and don’t understand the struggle. Thankfully this school board does and will ensure that equal outcomes prevail. Kids start in the same place and now we can hope they finish in the same place too…. Barely able to read.

You are 100% correct. I will say there is a huge drug and discipline problem at Yorktown. Leadership bends over backwards to hide it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Families are inequitable and because families are inequitable, punishments are too. So restorative justice is about equity and disproportionate outcomes and punishments of inequitable families.

The same goes for grades and test scores.

Being a family is hard work and because kids don't choose these things, it is unfair to assign them grades or punishments that are a result of things they can't control.

Hope this clears everything up.

So that girl who choked the boy on the bus - she shouldn't be punished harshly for the heinous thing she did because perhaps she comes from a low-income family and just "didn't know better"? Are you for real? Do "clear that up" for us.
DP

Correct. More often than not poor academic performance and behavioral issues stem from home life. She may “know” better, but she doesn’t have the tools to control herself. Same with kids who don’t have time at home to do homework.

But rather than redistribute parents and wealth (not happening) to create equitable homes, we remove the outcomes that reflect these inequities. So no unjust punishments that reflect an home life in crisis and no unfair grading systems that reflect family performance rather than student performance.

Maybe you were privileged with a loving home and don’t understand the struggle. Thankfully this school board does and will ensure that equal outcomes prevail. Kids start in the same place and now we can hope they finish in the same place too…. Barely able to read.

The fact that you seem to actually believe your own drivel is what's really scary here.

+100
Can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually hope some bigger kid assaults, terrorizes, and chokes the PP's kid. I'd sure love to know what the PP thinks of RJ after that.

[Anonymous]

What "Restorative Justice" SHOULD mean:
The victim gets to choose the punishment of the bully. Nothing less should be acceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know whether restorative Justice works, but detention and suspension definitely does not. Why are parents so insistent on wanting bullies suspended? Do you think that will stop the bullying? It does not.

Suspension works! It works for the rest of the school who gets a break from the misbehaving student. Teachers can then teach and students can learn. It also serves a warning to other students to behave. We are focusing too much on the students who are running amok, disrupting classes, threatening and assaulting others. Juvenile incarceration/probation has decline by 70% in this country. Where do you think those students are now? They aren't in juvenile jails, they aren't in continuation schools as those have been closed as well- they are in your local public high school. Now schools are dealing with them, except they aren't. It doesn't look good to have high suspension rates, so those kids wander around school and are constant disruptions.

If people really knew how much is swept under the rug and hidden from parents. Ask teachers- we all love suspensions!

Exactly. Forgive me if I really don't care about the bully's educational outcome. The REST of the students get to learn, without distractions, or worse - bullying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Families are inequitable and because families are inequitable, punishments are too. So restorative justice is about equity and disproportionate outcomes and punishments of inequitable families.

The same goes for grades and test scores.

Being a family is hard work and because kids don't choose these things, it is unfair to assign them grades or punishments that are a result of things they can't control.

Hope this clears everything up.

So that girl who choked the boy on the bus - she shouldn't be punished harshly for the heinous thing she did because perhaps she comes from a low-income family and just "didn't know better"? Are you for real? Do "clear that up" for us.
DP

Correct. More often than not poor academic performance and behavioral issues stem from home life. She may “know” better, but she doesn’t have the tools to control herself. Same with kids who don’t have time at home to do homework.

But rather than redistribute parents and wealth (not happening) to create equitable homes, we remove the outcomes that reflect these inequities. So no unjust punishments that reflect an home life in crisis and no unfair grading systems that reflect family performance rather than student performance.

Maybe you were privileged with a loving home and don’t understand the struggle. Thankfully this school board does and will ensure that equal outcomes prevail. Kids start in the same place and now we can hope they finish in the same place too…. Barely able to read.

There is a lot to disagree with here. I am the product of a single mother home - unemployed and an addict. Yet I graduated from two of the nation’s best colleges with honors. The thing is that doing so was not a heroic accomplishment. No, it was done in recognition of the fact that as a poor kid I had no margin for error like well off kids did. It used to irk me that some of my peers would do drugs, bully, commit property crimes, not do school work and so on and yet get rescued by their parents. Accordingly, efforts to paint me as a victim or in need of safe spaces were quite harmful. By circumstance I simply had a skinnier margin in terms of mistakes and screwups. Did I resent the well off kids? Yes. But they were a source of motivation.

The poster above refers to a wealth disparity. Well, that is accurate. But who reminds young people we have an income tax and not a wealth tax? And is the education system that mediocre that young people don’t realize capital is treated far better than labor? Complain all you want but that is the reality throughout the West. And who teaches that wealth accumulation is a long slow grind reflecting good decisions? And that the most important factor in social mobility is accumulation of human capital. I can see apparatchiks claiming my views are not realistic. Of course such types have not emerged from grinding poverty to a one percent status.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a good idea because it works.

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/jstc-rcdvs/index-en.aspx
The offenders who participated in the restorative justice program had lower recidivism rates than the matched group of probationers. With each year during the follow-up the differences in recidivism rates for the two groups widened. At the first year, the restorative justice offenders had a recidivism rate of 15% compared to 38% for the probation group. At the second year the respective rates were 28% and 54% and by the third year the rates were 35% and 66%.

https://thedcline.org/2018/07/27/restorative-justice-program-for-juveniles-aims-to-foster-empathy-heal-trauma/
In the 60 juvenile cases that have gone through this program since its inception in 2016, 48 have had successful outcomes, according to Gajwani. Success is measured by the rate of rearrests. Nationally, the rate of recidivism for youth who opt for restorative justice as opposed to a traditional court proceeding is at 40 percent.

You're citing juvenile court cases. Taking restorative justice from that concept to schools is like using a blowtorch for weeding. Wrong tool, wrong setting.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/07/15/restorative-justice-montgomery-county-schools/
"A recent report by Sean Darling-Hammond, assistant professor of health and education at UCLA, indicates that restorative practices improve middle school students’ academic achievement, while reducing suspension rates and disparities, misbehavior, substance abuse and student mental health challenges."

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED596786.pdf
"The earlier discussion about RJ theory suggests that a well-implemented program could
reduce punitive disciplinary actions and problem behavior over time (Tyler, 2006). All the
empirical studies we reviewed report a decrease in exclusionary discipline and harmful
behavior (e.g., violence) after implementing some type of RJ program. "

"But, across the studies, school attendance tended to improve after
RJ implementation. Baker (2009), for example, reports that students who participated in
an RJ program12 experienced a 50-percent reduction in absenteeism during the first year of
implementation and a decrease in tardiness of about 64 percent. "

"70 percent of staff reported
that RJ improved overall school climate during the first year of implementation."

It’s voluntary and it works. What’s the problem?

How is it voluntary? If a bully beats your child into a bloody pulp, does the victim have the right to "opt out" so that the perp is actually punished? Or does the bully just get away with fluffy talk and hand-holding circles no matter what the victim wants?

It’s voluntary. If the victim doesn’t opt-in - or if the victim’s parents don’t opt-in - or of the “perp” doesn’t acknowledge fault - then they don’t use the RJ program.

And the bully is punished?

Yes, of course. Disciplinary actions don’t go away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Families are inequitable and because families are inequitable, punishments are too. So restorative justice is about equity and disproportionate outcomes and punishments of inequitable families.

The same goes for grades and test scores.

Being a family is hard work and because kids don't choose these things, it is unfair to assign them grades or punishments that are a result of things they can't control.

Hope this clears everything up.

So that girl who choked the boy on the bus - she shouldn't be punished harshly for the heinous thing she did because perhaps she comes from a low-income family and just "didn't know better"? Are you for real? Do "clear that up" for us.
DP

Correct. More often than not poor academic performance and behavioral issues stem from home life. She may “know” better, but she doesn’t have the tools to control herself. Same with kids who don’t have time at home to do homework.

But rather than redistribute parents and wealth (not happening) to create equitable homes, we remove the outcomes that reflect these inequities. So no unjust punishments that reflect an home life in crisis and no unfair grading systems that reflect family performance rather than student performance.

Maybe you were privileged with a loving home and don’t understand the struggle. Thankfully this school board does and will ensure that equal outcomes prevail. Kids start in the same place and now we can hope they finish in the same place too…. Barely able to read.

The fact that you seem to actually believe your own drivel is what's really scary here.

+1