San Francisco is imploding

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Real estate, the last bastion of "this is fine" is now under assault:

Two of the largest hotels are stopping debt payments: https://sfstandard.com/business/real-estate-group-halts-loan-payments-two-san-francisco-hotels/

Downtown buildings selling for less than half their pre-pandemic value: https://www.costar.com/article/1098279790/wells-fargo-lands-buyer-for-san-francisco-office-tower-at-deeply-discounted-price

This is a national trend.

Yeah, Tysons Corner mall is about to close

Well maybe not Tysons, but there are plans underway to redevelop Fair Oaks mall and reduce retail space to 20-25%. Malls have become an outdated concept and will look very different in 20 years. Downtown areas will look different as well in many areas.

https://www.focusonnova.com/fair-oaks-mall-redevelopment/

The new agenda is tons of condos with retail underneath. Think Merrifield

I love walking outdoors in sweltering August heat and humidity.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s really weird how much this narrative shapes your mind. I’m a liberal who lives in DC. I live in NWDC and had to take my teenager to a community center in the heart of Southeast. In my 16 years of living in DC, I have never been to that area of SE. Given all the hellscape narratives the right keeps pushing, I expected tons of trash everywhere and homeless criminals. You know what I got? A sunny, clean neighborhood with families. I have no idea why the right keeps lying! They’re big fat liars who hate poor people.

Show me an example of the right talking about SE DC.

Search yourself. DCUM is littered with it. They talk about DC like they do SF. I’ve even had a RWNJ who lives in Ashburn tell me that DC is a crime-ridden dump. I live here and he’s wrong.

There are parts of DC, I feel safe walking.

There are parts of DC, I do not feel safe walking.

We probably agree, not all of DC is crime-ridden dump, but some parts have more problem that others.

The problem SF has, is that a lot of group A turned into group B in a relatively short time. There also seems to be no sign of the trend stopping. DC people rightly fear that if we adopt SF policies, we'll get SF results.

But, what is really wrong with unchecked violent crime, human feces everywhere, and unlivable conditions for all?

Don’t you support equality?

Good lord. Unlike 99% of the people blathering on here about human feces everywhere, I actually LIVE in SF. And I'm originally from Chicago and spend a lot of time there as well. The media and ignorant people love to go on and on about how both of these cities are hell holes in their entirety. The truth is, as in other cities, most of the problems are confined to a few areas. I moved here from DC in 2020 and live on the border of Russian Hill and Marina. I have a gorgeous view of the Bay, Alcatraz, and the Golden Gate Bridge and I can sit and watch the boats and action on the Bay all day long.

I walk several miles a day in the following areas: embarcadero, North Beach, Nob Hill, Russian Hill, Marina, Pac Hts, Cow Hollow, all the way down to the Presidio among other neighborhoods. And Ft. Mason is in my front yard so we hang out there a lot. We also go down to the areas around Oracle Park, which is full of great restaurants and bars. I have never seen, nor stepped in, human feces. These neighborhoods are clean, safe, vibrant, full of wonderful restaurants, gourmet shops, boutiques, bars, etc. And they are always filled with people.

Most of the hotels and shopping that are closing is in the business district around Union Square. This area has been really hit hard by the tech industry woes and workers refusing to return to the office. Yes, there is a lot of theft and crime in this area as it has attracted the crime element as it has declined. I have still walked around here and have felt safe. And as another PP has said, malls are dying out everywhere. Tysons is a huge exception, but many others in the area (White Flint, Lake Forest) have died, or are being re-developed (Montgomery - which is also dying) and it's a national trend. https://www.businessinsider.com/american-mall-decline-150-left-10-years-how-many-2022-10

I'm not being an apologist here - I'm just stating what I see on a daily basis as a resident. That said, I totally avoid the Tenderloin. When people talk about SF being a hellhole, they are talking about the Tenderloin. You will see very horrible conditions there and it breaks my heart to see people living in these conditions. And it's true that you must lock your car and not leave anything visible no matter where you park. Car break-ins are very common. But its simply not true that there is human feces and drug needles EVERYWHERE. It's not happening in most parts of the city.

For anyone wanting to come visit - I encourage you as you will still enjoy a beautiful, vibrant city with great food scene and tons to do. And the natural beauty just outside the city is amazing as well. When we don't spend weekends in the city, we will be out on gorgeous hikes within an hour or two drive. Not to mention one of the best wine regions in the world an hour away from where we live.

I’ve lived in north beach since 95. Your 3 year experience in San Francisco is a blip on the radar of what this city used to be. Terrible elected officials who got more and more crazy over the last 10-20 years have created this version of the city. Covid was just gas on the fire. Buying in to defund the police movement really helped too.

I stay because I do like the city, just not as much. Also I have a garage and car in north beach which is hard to give up. And a roof top deck that I can sometimes see stuff from, but mostly it is fog for the 4th and air shows . Like the fog knows there is something going on it shows up every year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s really weird how much this narrative shapes your mind. I’m a liberal who lives in DC. I live in NWDC and had to take my teenager to a community center in the heart of Southeast. In my 16 years of living in DC, I have never been to that area of SE. Given all the hellscape narratives the right keeps pushing, I expected tons of trash everywhere and homeless criminals. You know what I got? A sunny, clean neighborhood with families. I have no idea why the right keeps lying! They’re big fat liars who hate poor people.

Show me an example of the right talking about SE DC.

Search yourself. DCUM is littered with it. They talk about DC like they do SF. I’ve even had a RWNJ who lives in Ashburn tell me that DC is a crime-ridden dump. I live here and he’s wrong.

There are parts of DC, I feel safe walking.

There are parts of DC, I do not feel safe walking.

We probably agree, not all of DC is crime-ridden dump, but some parts have more problem that others.

The problem SF has, is that a lot of group A turned into group B in a relatively short time. There also seems to be no sign of the trend stopping. DC people rightly fear that if we adopt SF policies, we'll get SF results.

But, what is really wrong with unchecked violent crime, human feces everywhere, and unlivable conditions for all?

Don’t you support equality?

Good lord. Unlike 99% of the people blathering on here about human feces everywhere, I actually LIVE in SF. And I'm originally from Chicago and spend a lot of time there as well. The media and ignorant people love to go on and on about how both of these cities are hell holes in their entirety. The truth is, as in other cities, most of the problems are confined to a few areas. I moved here from DC in 2020 and live on the border of Russian Hill and Marina. I have a gorgeous view of the Bay, Alcatraz, and the Golden Gate Bridge and I can sit and watch the boats and action on the Bay all day long.

I walk several miles a day in the following areas: embarcadero, North Beach, Nob Hill, Russian Hill, Marina, Pac Hts, Cow Hollow, all the way down to the Presidio among other neighborhoods. And Ft. Mason is in my front yard so we hang out there a lot. We also go down to the areas around Oracle Park, which is full of great restaurants and bars. I have never seen, nor stepped in, human feces. These neighborhoods are clean, safe, vibrant, full of wonderful restaurants, gourmet shops, boutiques, bars, etc. And they are always filled with people.

Most of the hotels and shopping that are closing is in the business district around Union Square. This area has been really hit hard by the tech industry woes and workers refusing to return to the office. Yes, there is a lot of theft and crime in this area as it has attracted the crime element as it has declined. I have still walked around here and have felt safe. And as another PP has said, malls are dying out everywhere. Tysons is a huge exception, but many others in the area (White Flint, Lake Forest) have died, or are being re-developed (Montgomery - which is also dying) and it's a national trend. https://www.businessinsider.com/american-mall-decline-150-left-10-years-how-many-2022-10

I'm not being an apologist here - I'm just stating what I see on a daily basis as a resident. That said, I totally avoid the Tenderloin. When people talk about SF being a hellhole, they are talking about the Tenderloin. You will see very horrible conditions there and it breaks my heart to see people living in these conditions. And it's true that you must lock your car and not leave anything visible no matter where you park. Car break-ins are very common. But its simply not true that there is human feces and drug needles EVERYWHERE. It's not happening in most parts of the city.

For anyone wanting to come visit - I encourage you as you will still enjoy a beautiful, vibrant city with great food scene and tons to do. And the natural beauty just outside the city is amazing as well. When we don't spend weekends in the city, we will be out on gorgeous hikes within an hour or two drive. Not to mention one of the best wine regions in the world an hour away from where we live.

I’ve lived in north beach since 95. Your 3 year experience in San Francisco is a blip on the radar of what this city used to be. Terrible elected officials who got more and more crazy over the last 10-20 years have created this version of the city. Covid was just gas on the fire. Buying in to defund the police movement really helped too.

I stay because I do like the city, just not as much. Also I have a garage and car in north beach which is hard to give up. And a roof top deck that I can sometimes see stuff from, but mostly it is fog for the 4th and air shows . Like the fog knows there is something going on it shows up every year.

That's Karl for you. Can't miss an opportunity to see the fireworks up close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will never understand why people who don't actually LIVE in a city feel that they are qualified to opine with great conviction about the living conditions in that city.

You mean like people who don’t live in Florida, opining about Florida? Like that? Oh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will never understand why people who don't actually LIVE in a city feel that they are qualified to opine with great conviction about the living conditions in that city.

You mean like people who don’t live in Florida, opining about Florida? Like that? Oh.

I lived in Fla and it sucked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will never understand why people who don't actually LIVE in a city feel that they are qualified to opine with great conviction about the living conditions in that city.

You mean like people who don’t live in Florida, opining about Florida? Like that? Oh.

I lived in Fla and it sucked.

But you don’t live there now and neither do the vast majority of DCUM posters. Yet that doesn’t stop any of you from insisting you know what Florida is currently like. Sound familiar?

[Anonymous]

Yowza, no punches pulled - SF is in trouble:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/san-francisco-is-in-trouble-battered-by-remote-work-and-the-homeless-crisis-160203782.html

[Anonymous]

Also from that story - major hotels now ditching SF due to cloudy future and health of the city:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/top-hotel-chain-leaves-san-172100156.html


But keep on telling us SF's progressive politics aren't failing the city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will never understand why people who don't actually LIVE in a city feel that they are qualified to opine with great conviction about the living conditions in that city.

You mean like people who don’t live in Florida, opining about Florida? Like that? Oh.

I lived in Fla and it sucked.

But you don’t live there now and neither do the vast majority of DCUM posters. Yet that doesn’t stop any of you from insisting you know what Florida is currently like. Sound familiar?

Florida and DeSantis make it their business by their open and public business of ignorance, cruelty, and discrimination. Public laws and policies that affect me when Im in the state make it my business. I don't pretend to know what life on the streets is like in FLA, but I am capable of reading the laws being passed and proposed.

[Anonymous]

SF is ripe for investing in now

It’ll fall somewhat from here but it’s not gonna become Detroit

is sf a dump? Yes

Would I personally live in sf? No

If you aren’t too over levered and can stomach some volatility, people getting into sf now are gonna make a killing in 15-20 years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SF is ripe for investing in now

It’ll fall somewhat from here but it’s not gonna become Detroit

is sf a dump? Yes

Would I personally live in sf? No

If you aren’t too over levered and can stomach some volatility, people getting into sf now are gonna make a killing in 15-20 years

I think you seriously underestimate SF’s risk for complete meltdown due to commercial RE implosion. If companies flee, which they’re already doing in SF, RE values tank. What’s SF going to tax then? They’ll try to dramatically hike taxes on residents, who will just leave. Is a death spiral due to their overly progressives politics. They’re following the same self destructive behavior as Baltimore. I bet if you asked people in the 1920s if Baltimore could ever become a rundown murderpit they would never be able to comprehend it because Baltimore was so wealthy back then. Yet here we are in the now with Baltimore more murders some years than NYC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will never understand why people who don't actually LIVE in a city feel that they are qualified to opine with great conviction about the living conditions in that city.

You mean like people who don’t live in Florida, opining about Florida? Like that? Oh.

+1 As in we have a whole subject line dedicated to Florida.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SF is ripe for investing in now

It’ll fall somewhat from here but it’s not gonna become Detroit

is sf a dump? Yes

Would I personally live in sf? No

If you aren’t too over levered and can stomach some volatility, people getting into sf now are gonna make a killing in 15-20 years

I think you seriously underestimate SF’s risk for complete meltdown due to commercial RE implosion. If companies flee, which they’re already doing in SF, RE values tank. What’s SF going to tax then? They’ll try to dramatically hike taxes on residents, who will just leave. Is a death spiral due to their overly progressives politics. They’re following the same self destructive behavior as Baltimore. I bet if you asked people in the 1920s if Baltimore could ever become a rundown murderpit they would never be able to comprehend it because Baltimore was so wealthy back then. Yet here we are in the now with Baltimore more murders some years than NYC.

I agree with you, pp. SF is spiraling downward. And, it has not yet hit rock bottom.

[Anonymous]

Amazing. We have reporters in war zones, but they cannot go to sections of SF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SF is ripe for investing in now

It’ll fall somewhat from here but it’s not gonna become Detroit

is sf a dump? Yes

Would I personally live in sf? No

If you aren’t too over levered and can stomach some volatility, people getting into sf now are gonna make a killing in 15-20 years

I think you seriously underestimate SF’s risk for complete meltdown due to commercial RE implosion. If companies flee, which they’re already doing in SF, RE values tank. What’s SF going to tax then? They’ll try to dramatically hike taxes on residents, who will just leave. Is a death spiral due to their overly progressives politics. They’re following the same self destructive behavior as Baltimore. I bet if you asked people in the 1920s if Baltimore could ever become a rundown murderpit they would never be able to comprehend it because Baltimore was so wealthy back then. Yet here we are in the now with Baltimore more murders some years than NYC.

You underestimate Sf’s geography — it’s pretty rare on the planet

Money will always find its way to coastal areas with picturesque views and temperate weather

It’s not going to devolve into South Africa levels of dysfunction

CRE will get repurposed on a multi decade time horizon — if you have a family office between 5-10 billion, allocating 10-15% in Sf is smart and will pay off over a generation