Restorative Justice is struggling to show success in MCPS according to students, parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem here isnt RJ. It's working great. The problem is some posters have a tough time accepting anything that isn't from the 1920s or earlier.

You're misinformed: https://moco360.media/2023/02/28/mcps-students-data-suggest-failing-grade-for-restorative-justice-practices/

Data shows it's not working.

[Anonymous]

RM is having a PTA meeting this week to focus on Restorative Justice. If anyone attends, please let us know how it goes!

Especially after the robbery at RM, I’d love to hear how they spin using RJ for such an incident.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:RM is having a PTA meeting this week to focus on Restorative Justice. If anyone attends, please let us know how it goes!

Especially after the robbery at RM, I’d love to hear how they spin using RJ for such an incident.

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/council/Resources/Files/agenda/cm/2023/20230320/20230320_PSEC1.pdf

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It doesn't seem to be going any better at FCPS. My child's elementary school really pushed for it for a bullying situation in lieu of actually doing anything. The RJ mediator met with the students and opted not to go forward with the process. So, the thing that the school was relying on isn't going to happen.

Naive parents got tricked into this nonsense.

There is a bullying incident in my child's classroom a week ago where they used RJ and it worked beautifully. The problem was completely resolved.

Per MCPS's own report, it's not working "beautifully". It's an abysmal failure.

Well, at our school, RJ helped put an end to my kid being bullied so I have to disagree. It works great.

Can you elaborate? How did it work?

A classmate was punching and pushing my kid down at recess daily. The teacher used RJ and got the kids together in a circle to talk. Afterward, the bully ceased bullying. Despite the many complaints here at least where my kid was concerned it seemed like a great resolution.

As I suspected, this was an elementary school issue. RJ seems most appropriate for many elementary school-level conflicts like this. Where RJ falls about is in the secondary schools where the conflicts can be more fraught with danger and harm beyond hurt feelings.

It's great to just say it only works for ES, but these anecdotal claims are wearing thin.

Could you please post some research studies that speak to the questions being asked here?

No, are your fingers broken or do you have research studies that you would like to add?
As a parent I'm appalled at this social experiment that lacks any sort of grounding in practice which is making my child more stressed out, unsafe and is causing their teachers to be stressed and or leave. It's outrageous.

That couldn't be further from the truth. RJ has shown great results in countless studies. Sure, a few RW astroturfers are against anything that isn't corporal punishment but that's inevitable on DCUM.

The whole reason RJ is popular in education circles is that it's done so well in every peer-reviewed study. Unfortunately, there's a lot of resistance to new ideas, especially from the right who prefer methods like corporal punishment and won't consider anything new.

This is not true. People are willing to try new ideas, provided there's demonstrable efficacy behind them.

RJ has some notions and ideas that simply don't make sense.

For example, RJ coaches say that RJ does not mean no consequences and no accountability, but they also insist consequences and accountability can't be punitive. When asked to give an example of a consequence that held perpetrators accountable but wasn't punitive, they can't muster up an example.

There are some laudable intentions and motivations behind RJ, but they don't seem rooted in the reality of the way human beings operate nor the limitations of the school system.

It is true and just saying it isn't because you don't like it doesn't make it so.

They tried it at our MS. It was a new idea. It was terrible. The new idea they tried did not work.

RJ is a terrible idea - unless you are the aggressor.

Right. It absolutely centers the instigator to ensure they are reintegrated into the school community. There is almost no discussion about how victims make out in all of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know a single teacher in my elementary school who finds RJ to work. I know we're just one school but our building has become a disaster with student behavior issues like PP have mentioned. We have 2nd graders cursing out staff, hitting staff, throwing things at people, running laps around the building...you name the chaos, we have it.
Aside from students who genuinely need special services, we did not have these issues when parents were inconvenienced by a suspension and intake meeting after the third offense. My poor teammate has been dealing with a war zone in her room since September and the kids know that they can get away with literally anything at this point. The future is not looking bright for us right now.

School need to call parents and tell them to come get their kids. Simple. If parents also don't know what's going on they cannot do anything about it.

Aww, this is cute. Parents of disruptive kids don’t answer their phones, have “full mailboxes” in their voicemail, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know a single teacher in my elementary school who finds RJ to work. I know we're just one school but our building has become a disaster with student behavior issues like PP have mentioned. We have 2nd graders cursing out staff, hitting staff, throwing things at people, running laps around the building...you name the chaos, we have it.
Aside from students who genuinely need special services, we did not have these issues when parents were inconvenienced by a suspension and intake meeting after the third offense. My poor teammate has been dealing with a war zone in her room since September and the kids know that they can get away with literally anything at this point. The future is not looking bright for us right now.

School need to call parents and tell them to come get their kids. Simple. If parents also don't know what's going on they cannot do anything about it.

Aww, this is cute. Parents of disruptive kids don’t answer their phones, have “full mailboxes” in their voicemail, etc.

Then maybe a referral to the juvenile justice system is appropriate. I don't know why so many people are against this. It's rehabilitative and brings the family in for problem solving.

[Anonymous]

RJ and removing of the SROs are failed experiments. Here's a summary of the timeline:

1. Elrich gets rid of SROs and instead diverts funding for mental health professionals
2. MCPS cannot find enough mental health professionals
3. Uptick in violence. Elrich says, "OK, we can look at bringing in cops to patrol the surrounding areas but not in the schools" - CEOs
4. Kid gets shot in school, and admin/security don't realize it's a gunshoot wound and when they finally realize what it is, they call the cops and finally put the school on lockdown.
Elrich, "Ok, we can look at bringing CEOs INTO the schools, but they can't walk the hallways, and instead they can have a tiny corner office and only come out of the office when called upon by the Principal"
5. More violence and drug use in the bathrooms.
Elrich, "OK, we can rebrand CEO 2.0 and cops can walk the halls at the discretion of the Principal".

That about sums up Elrich's failed "we don't need cops in school. We just need to hug the violent perps more".

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/council/Resources/Files/agenda/cm/2023/20230320/20230320_PSEC1.pdf

Thanks to the PP who posted that link.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know a single teacher in my elementary school who finds RJ to work. I know we're just one school but our building has become a disaster with student behavior issues like PP have mentioned. We have 2nd graders cursing out staff, hitting staff, throwing things at people, running laps around the building...you name the chaos, we have it.
Aside from students who genuinely need special services, we did not have these issues when parents were inconvenienced by a suspension and intake meeting after the third offense. My poor teammate has been dealing with a war zone in her room since September and the kids know that they can get away with literally anything at this point. The future is not looking bright for us right now.

School need to call parents and tell them to come get their kids. Simple. If parents also don't know what's going on they cannot do anything about it.

Aww, this is cute. Parents of disruptive kids don’t answer their phones, have “full mailboxes” in their voicemail, etc.

Then maybe a referral to the juvenile justice system is appropriate. I don't know why so many people are against this. It's rehabilitative and brings the family in for problem solving.

they are against it because #equity. It's the progressives who are against it. Ask them. Better yet, tell the progressives to come deal with violent students, some who are the size of adults.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know a single teacher in my elementary school who finds RJ to work. I know we're just one school but our building has become a disaster with student behavior issues like PP have mentioned. We have 2nd graders cursing out staff, hitting staff, throwing things at people, running laps around the building...you name the chaos, we have it.
Aside from students who genuinely need special services, we did not have these issues when parents were inconvenienced by a suspension and intake meeting after the third offense. My poor teammate has been dealing with a war zone in her room since September and the kids know that they can get away with literally anything at this point. The future is not looking bright for us right now.

School need to call parents and tell them to come get their kids. Simple. If parents also don't know what's going on they cannot do anything about it.

Aww, this is cute. Parents of disruptive kids don’t answer their phones, have “full mailboxes” in their voicemail, etc.

Then maybe a referral to the juvenile justice system is appropriate. I don't know why so many people are against this. It's rehabilitative and brings the family in for problem solving.

they are against it because #equity. It's the progressives who are against it. Ask them. Better yet, tell the progressives to come deal with violent students, some who are the size of adults.

Well, all these things happen now. It's mostly a matter of finding the right tool to address each situation. When a student commits felony like assault, RJ doesn't matter since we already have laws covering this, and it's a criminal matter for MCPD and the courts.

[Anonymous]

RJ and removing SROs seem like a step in the right direction for MCPS. THe real problem appears to be that MCPD isn't doing its job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:RJ and removing SROs seem like a step in the right direction for MCPS. THe real problem appears to be that MCPD isn't doing its job.

The changes that resulted in worse outcomes are a direct result of County Council removing SROs and MCPS implementing RJ... So you blame MCPD? Total head scratcher there. It's like an RJ session blaming the victim instead of the root of the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:RJ and removing SROs seem like a step in the right direction for MCPS. THe real problem appears to be that MCPD isn't doing its job.

This shows complete unawareness of what's happening. With now SROs, MCPS is 100% responsible for student safety. And they are failing. There is no job for MCPD to do if they can't be in the schools engaging in prevention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:RJ and removing SROs seem like a step in the right direction for MCPS. THe real problem appears to be that MCPD isn't doing its job.

This shows complete unawareness of what's happening. With now SROs, MCPS is 100% responsible for student safety. And they are failing. There is no job for MCPD to do if they can't be in the schools engaging in prevention.

On the contrary, MCPD is still responsible for enforcing laws in the county. That never changed. MCPS is responsible for educating students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:RJ and removing SROs seem like a step in the right direction for MCPS. THe real problem appears to be that MCPD isn't doing its job.

This shows complete unawareness of what's happening. With now SROs, MCPS is 100% responsible for student safety. And they are failing. There is no job for MCPD to do if they can't be in the schools engaging in prevention.

On the contrary, MCPD is still responsible for enforcing laws in the county. That never changed. MCPS is responsible for educating students.

Clearly, you're a dumb progressive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:RJ and removing SROs seem like a step in the right direction for MCPS. THe real problem appears to be that MCPD isn't doing its job.

The changes that resulted in worse outcomes are a direct result of County Council removing SROs and MCPS implementing RJ... So you blame MCPD? Total head scratcher there. It's like an RJ session blaming the victim instead of the root of the problem.

So you're claiming the courts are using RJ now for dealing with felonies like possessing a controlled substance or assault?