$80k In Debt Worth It for Ivy Undergrad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you are getting a ton of conflicting advice, I think which is lending itself to your paralysis.

What's key is to remember is that typically when seeking counsel, you're going to look at someone's resume. Here, you have no clue who is a random SAHM who married well born after going to some random private non-Ivy university, on third thinks they hit a home run, vs who is a POC with similar parents and similar opportunities. The latter group would have varied experiences that you should consider and I would suggest you take the former's advice with a huge grain of salt.

It would be interesting if you'd ask the posters to give a little background info such as (a) tier of school they graduated from (i.e,. HYP, Seven Sisters, Big Ten), (b) current income/field and (c) if they had strong standardized test scores (just guessing that you do based on the two threads). You want to hear from POCs who also went to Ivies or similar who didn't have totally smooth sailing (which is all of us I bet) but who stuck it out and how their degrees have helped them, if at all.

Snort. No one cares about your SAT scores in the real world.

It’s to locate people with similar strengths as she has dummy. Assume yours weren’t high.

The only strength that SAT scores reveal is that you're good or bad at taking tests.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Try to stay positive and finish the degree, OP. That Ivy name will open doors for you forever. A high school friend of mine who went to an Ivy (likely yours, based on your description) just bought a $14 million dollar McMansion at age 34! Meanwhile my DH and I will not come close to that amount over our lifetime. Then again, we didn’t go to an Ivy. We all went to the same high school and our friend wasn’t even in the top 10% academically, but he had a special interest/talent and decent grades, and I guess that was enough to be admitted to an Ivy in the 90s.

LMAO. Most Ivy grads will never get to such an accomplishment. Your friend is either an extreme outlier or had rich parents help him buy the McMansion. Absurd to use this one random anecdote as proof OP should stay.

He works for a top financial firm. I personally know a handful of Wall Street people who retired in their late 30s and 40s with $50-100 mill. My friend’s parents are middle class at best. His boss went to the same Ivy and took a chance on him early on. My friend works a ton, but he loves it.

OP here. I would literally rather go to jail than go work at Wall Street (and I was in prison for a day after getting arrested at a protest, so there's that...)

A number of posters have called you spoiled/ungrateful/entitled, and I am sensing some of that too. What separates the people on the top from everyone else is their ability to delay gratification. Grunt it out. Not everyone is cut out for this, but then don’t complain when you cannot afford stuff in life.

OP here. You're right. I guess I'm tired of delaying gratification. My entire life up until this point -- my parents screaming at me to perform academically to their standards, trying a STEM major and failing, trying to tough it out at a notoriously competitive school that I hate -- has been a series of delayed gratification. It's just that achievement seems empty at this point, and I want something more immediately tangible and pleasant. I am tired. I am so, so tired of trying to delay all these awards when fundamentally it seems like meaningless bullshit that I don't care about. I don't see the point of sticking it out in the rat race since it seems like the rewards are too far off for me to enjoy.

Yes, I'm aware that makes me spoiled/self-indulgent/entitled. I think it's because I was raised by Asian immigrant tiger parents to delay gratification for so long that I'm super burnt out and tired of everything.

PS: It's hard to delay gratification during a difficult, trying job when you're actively suicidal as a college student. Idk, I think my mental illness is calling for me to stop delaying and instead search for more immediate and more intrinsically meaningful things.

Ok so then quit, move out, get a job (or more likely two is what will be required to make ends meet) pay your own way (and try not to get into credit card debt) and go back to school when you are older. I mean what do you want us to tell you? There’s no magical third option beyond go back to school or get a job. You have declared it an impossibility for you to go back to Columbia and your parents won’t be moved so the choice is clear. Thousands and thousands of young people every year don’t go to college or enroll in community college because they have parents who can’t or won’t pay for their school. So they get jobs, and make do, and scrape by somehow. Nothing is stopping you from doing this. Literally nothing.

Actually one thing is stopping you. Deep down, you do care about prestige, but just of a different nature than what your classmates care about. I know this because you fixate on prestigious sounding albeit low paid careers. You know where you could really make an impact? Working as a health care aid in an Alzheimer’s facility, or in a drug rehab center, or cleaning cages in an animal shelter, or some equally unglamorous job that actually helps people. You could just quit, get a Starbucks job, and never go back to college. But instead you want an “acceptable” sounding job in publishing” or “helping the environment.” Ok, so do that, but you know what help the environment needs? Scientists and engineers who grind it out in labs to come up with innovative solutions to huge problems, and smart lawyers and policy makers who grind it out in law school or grad school so they can draft and implement legislation and regulations and lobby to get them passed, and IT folks who grind it out over the weekends to keep the Sierra Club’s network up and running so they can do their business, and HR employee benefits folks, who put in overtime to hire and onboard and pay the employees to do all those things, and fundraising folks who are out at events nights and weekends at events to raise money for the research and advocacy, and the list goes on. Do one of those things, or be a waitress, but don’t you dare sit here and lecture us about being prestige obsessed when your immediate solution to dropping out of Columbia is not to get a degree from your local CalPoly or whatever but rather to hoof it to a blue blood Seven Sisters school. I mean come on.

This. This. 1,000,000x this. Most jobs that truly make a difference aren't anywhere near as exciting as they sound.

Get the darn degree, OP. It will open doors you don't even know about now. Public interest loan forgiveness programs exist for a reason.

-BTDT

OP here. I disagree.

Ivies don't magically open doors for you. There's nothing magical about having Columbia on my resume that will magically net me opportunities if I'm too depressed and tired to really make anything of the opportunities available to me at school. Sure, Ivies open doors that aren't available to grads of other schools -- but that's only if the student really goes after that while they're in college and are a high performing student who takes advantage of the resources Columbia offers. Which I'm not. I'd be better off at a Cal State.

Also, doors can't open if you don't know about them -- you have to be the one to open up the doors yourself. You have to be the one to take advantage of your opportunities and actively work to open these doors, which isn't a possibility if you don't know about these doors or are too depressed to really do anything with them.

There was a study by Dale and Kruger that showed that there is NO difference between students at Ivies and students accepted to Ivies who chose to go to their state school (except for URMs, which I am not). I was completely unsurprised to learn about the study, since going to an Ivy won't magically set up opportunities for the future if the student themselves don't aggressively go after these opportunities.

OP, sorry to say that this does not apply to you as a potential state school (or lower ranked) graduate. You will not have come out at the top of your class from the state school, as many of those kids who were accepted at Ivies but chose to go to state school instead. You have 3 years of grades and drop offs from Columbia that will follow you, and you’ll forever have to explain why you dropped out with 3 semesters left to go. Employers will think you couldn’t handle the pressure at Columbia, or you don’t finish what you start unless you can come up with a solid explanation for why you left. If you say you were miserable because of the people and the culture, and it made you mentally ill — for an employer, that’s a red flag. You have the luxury of staying it out and down the road even your grades won’t matter much but the doors will still open. You are wrong that only the highest achieving kids at Ivies do well. Plenty of middle of the road graduates get the benefit of the doubt when they interview at a company, especially the further out you get from college.

Is it still a red flag if I say that I left because the school took away all of my financial aid? Because that's true as well.

This should be fine, if you say your parents income increased and school dropped your aid. And you are trying to navigate a more sensible economic decision.

NP here, it would absolutely NOT be fine. If someone left an elite school with only 3 semesters left, it marks them as a loser, a quitter, and a lazy worker with no perseverance. Anyone with even a tiny amount of grit would've sucked up the student debt and stayed at the school, since they had already invested so much time and money into it. $80k is NOTHING when you consider that restarting would be much more expensive (both time-wise and financially). Any student with even a small amount of common sense would realize that leaving Columbia five semesters in is equivalent to academic and professional suicide, even if it's because the school dropped all of your financial aid.

+1. There is literally nothing she can say to explain away dropping out of Columbia. I had a classmate at HYP diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and he finished out the degree. OP, if you don’t finish your whole life is a red flag. Nothing you’d do would make up for it. And it’s unlikely you’re going to marry well because frankly, you’re annoying and also depressed (and not already dating someone).

You have to finish or your life is going to be hell.

I hope this is not the advice you would give your own child. Very harsh and pessimistic.
There are many exit and on ramps in life

No, I wouldn’t give my own child this advice unless she was in similar circumstances. For my own kids, they don’t need to prestige chase. But they are being raised to know it’s just important to work hard and be kind rather than focusing on results.

We can afford to do this because of the multimillion dollar trust funds we’ve prepared in their names. That is not OP’s reality - my parents were worse than OP’s, which is why I made so much money.

New money Ivy grads are insane. Total money and status chasers. No wonder OP is depressed at Columbia, being surrounded by rude elitists like you. Whichever HYP you went to clearly failed to instill a moral compass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, I'm not sure if you're cut off from Colombia's resources, but absolutely see if they have a career counselor willing to talk to you. They can sit down and discuss how this affects your future with better insight than the folks here. And they've seen students in your position, and genuinely want the best for you.

Just recently I met with my grad advisor. I wanted to find an easy summer class to knock out that could be lowkey enough to not kill me during my current work crunch. Figured out I could take a class and save a couple grand and finish a semester early if I just packed it in tighter. He begged me to reconsider. Said he's seen more and more students coming back for second degrees as students have been going that route. They get burned out and get nothing but the diploma. School is really what you make of it, and you need to get something besides the paper.

I'm taking his advice and have taken the summer to leisurely research and plan my thesis before I need to get started in force. It's honestly been really nice, and has made me way more excited to work on it than I otherwise would be.

OP here. I agree with you, but the posters here seem to disagree. Idk, it seems like everyone here is saying that it doesn't matter if I graduate from Columbia burnt out and with nothing really worthy of note at graduation (connections to peers, professors, meaningful research or extracurricular experiences, etc.). They all seem to be saying that as long as I get a Columbia diploma, it'll give me a leg up in the job market forever -- even though I am super burnt out from school and also don't feel like I'm getting anything out of Columbia (connections to peers, professors, meaningful research or extracurricular experiences, etc.). I've been rejected from almost every single student club and research position I've applied to, I have no close friends, and my professors mostly tolerate me as a warm body in their class.

Don’t feel bad about not getting into clubs or finding research internships. Columbia is a tough place. My son is there. He has been rejected from every single club. Has not been able to find any sort of lab internship either. And he said the competition of trying to interview for top finance firms and investment banks is crazy. It is a sink and swim environment which gets him down sometimes. But he likes most of his classes although a few have been brutal. And he likes NYC. There is more to the school than the crazy competitive kids but it can do a number on your self confidence

OP here. You're right, and the competitive, cutthroat, sink-or-swim environment is probably contributing to my depression. I don't even like Manhattan, so it feels like there's nothing really worthwhile left for me at the school.

And it's not like the competitive, cutthroat nature of Columbia caught me off guard or I'm anyhow unfamiliar with it -- my entire life has been a miserable series of intense, cutthroat competition driven by my parents' desires to brag to their friends about my academic achievement. I was (and am) super burnt out from high school. My parents made it clear to me that their sense of self -- as well as their entire purpose for immigrating across the world -- is based on my academic performance, which college I go to, which major I declare, and how much money I make in my chosen career.

My mom is CONSTANTLY telling me how "so-and-so's daughter works at McKinsey now and just bought her parents $300 worth of gifts -- I hope you do that when you graduate!" All the immigrant parents from our Asian ethnicity fawned over my parents when I got into Columbia, and they LOVED having that extra attention and social status. When these same parents stopped fawning over them because my parents (unfortunately) had to break it to them that I was in a useless humanities major, many of these people made fun of my parents and stopped socializing with them. My mom screamed at me that half of her friends stopped talking to her because they know I won't be financially successful as a useless English major, and she blamed her social downfall among the Asian immigrant community in our area entirely on me.

I thought I would get a break from the relentless sense of competition, perfection, excellence, and miserable grind of high school in college, but Columbia is the embodiment of all of these things. The stress culture here is really high, and I don't vibe with the student body at all. I was rejected from all two dozen plus clubs I applied to (even relatively random clubs are selective at Columbia), and I have no close group of friends at school (hard to do that when every club rejects you and Columbia is so dispersed with no real sense of community).

I'm really lonely and miserable at school, and it feels impossible to reach my peers (whose competitive, intense, and elitist nature makes it hard to create long-lasting connections). When I heard Tess Majors was murdered in Morningside Park, I got pretty jealous. Why wasn't I the one who was murdered? I'd get a permanent break from the misery of my life.

To act out my passively suicidal wishes, I would go into Morningside Park alone when I had depressive episodes at night. But unfortunately no one bothered to murder me...

It will never get better. My life will always be miserable and I'll never be able to get off the rat race if I take out $80k in loans. There's no happy end in sight. Taking out $80k in loans means that I'll have to work some miserable corporate job in an intense environment so I can pay off the principle and not just be stuck paying off interest for the rest of my life.

[Anonymous]

OP just finish at Columbia and you can be like the people in this forum. You can marry rich, then pass it off as personal success and hard work. Then just abuse some Xanax and start yelling at young people on some random forum. It's the dream, and the only way you'll be happy. Clearly.

Try not to get too down about the clubs. In my undergrad I got rejected from the volunteering club. They said I was too old (I was a junior), and I wouldn't be prepped for an e-board position. When I told them I didn't want to be on the e-board they stopped replying to my emails. Found out later that club was just for pre-meds to pad their resume. Now it's a good source of laughter for my non-ivy friends when we talk about the pieces of work that go to these schools. I promise you once you get your first "real" job, no one could care less about the circlejerk clubs you were in. They hardly care when you get your first one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, I'm not sure if you're cut off from Colombia's resources, but absolutely see if they have a career counselor willing to talk to you. They can sit down and discuss how this affects your future with better insight than the folks here. And they've seen students in your position, and genuinely want the best for you.

Just recently I met with my grad advisor. I wanted to find an easy summer class to knock out that could be lowkey enough to not kill me during my current work crunch. Figured out I could take a class and save a couple grand and finish a semester early if I just packed it in tighter. He begged me to reconsider. Said he's seen more and more students coming back for second degrees as students have been going that route. They get burned out and get nothing but the diploma. School is really what you make of it, and you need to get something besides the paper.

I'm taking his advice and have taken the summer to leisurely research and plan my thesis before I need to get started in force. It's honestly been really nice, and has made me way more excited to work on it than I otherwise would be.

OP here. I agree with you, but the posters here seem to disagree. Idk, it seems like everyone here is saying that it doesn't matter if I graduate from Columbia burnt out and with nothing really worthy of note at graduation (connections to peers, professors, meaningful research or extracurricular experiences, etc.). They all seem to be saying that as long as I get a Columbia diploma, it'll give me a leg up in the job market forever -- even though I am super burnt out from school and also don't feel like I'm getting anything out of Columbia (connections to peers, professors, meaningful research or extracurricular experiences, etc.). I've been rejected from almost every single student club and research position I've applied to, I have no close friends, and my professors mostly tolerate me as a warm body in their class.

Don’t feel bad about not getting into clubs or finding research internships. Columbia is a tough place. My son is there. He has been rejected from every single club. Has not been able to find any sort of lab internship either. And he said the competition of trying to interview for top finance firms and investment banks is crazy. It is a sink and swim environment which gets him down sometimes. But he likes most of his classes although a few have been brutal. And he likes NYC. There is more to the school than the crazy competitive kids but it can do a number on your self confidence

OP here. You're right, and the competitive, cutthroat, sink-or-swim environment is probably contributing to my depression. I don't even like Manhattan, so it feels like there's nothing really worthwhile left for me at the school.

And it's not like the competitive, cutthroat nature of Columbia caught me off guard or I'm anyhow unfamiliar with it -- my entire life has been a miserable series of intense, cutthroat competition driven by my parents' desires to brag to their friends about my academic achievement. I was (and am) super burnt out from high school. My parents made it clear to me that their sense of self -- as well as their entire purpose for immigrating across the world -- is based on my academic performance, which college I go to, which major I declare, and how much money I make in my chosen career.

My mom is CONSTANTLY telling me how "so-and-so's daughter works at McKinsey now and just bought her parents $300 worth of gifts -- I hope you do that when you graduate!" All the immigrant parents from our Asian ethnicity fawned over my parents when I got into Columbia, and they LOVED having that extra attention and social status. When these same parents stopped fawning over them because my parents (unfortunately) had to break it to them that I was in a useless humanities major, many of these people made fun of my parents and stopped socializing with them. My mom screamed at me that half of her friends stopped talking to her because they know I won't be financially successful as a useless English major, and she blamed her social downfall among the Asian immigrant community in our area entirely on me.

I thought I would get a break from the relentless sense of competition, perfection, excellence, and miserable grind of high school in college, but Columbia is the embodiment of all of these things. The stress culture here is really high, and I don't vibe with the student body at all. I was rejected from all two dozen plus clubs I applied to (even relatively random clubs are selective at Columbia), and I have no close group of friends at school (hard to do that when every club rejects you and Columbia is so dispersed with no real sense of community).

I'm really lonely and miserable at school, and it feels impossible to reach my peers (whose competitive, intense, and elitist nature makes it hard to create long-lasting connections). When I heard Tess Majors was murdered in Morningside Park, I got pretty jealous. Why wasn't I the one who was murdered? I'd get a permanent break from the misery of my life.

To act out my passively suicidal wishes, I would go into Morningside Park alone when I had depressive episodes at night. But unfortunately no one bothered to murder me...

It will never get better. My life will always be miserable and I'll never be able to get off the rat race if I take out $80k in loans. There's no happy end in sight. Taking out $80k in loans means that I'll have to work some miserable corporate job in an intense environment so I can pay off the principle and not just be stuck paying off interest for the rest of my life.

My parents made me miserable, including my harsh wardon arab mother. At 18, I left. You have suicidal thoughts!!! What is a transcript worth, or a job you loathe, if you are having suicidal thoughts? Please, understand you CAN walk out. Start by getting a PT job. Save some money for 1 month rent + security deposit - look for a female in search of a roommate. Be free. Live close to a cheap school where you can take classes. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

And your mother needs NEW FRIENDS!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP just finish at Columbia and you can be like the people in this forum. You can marry rich, then pass it off as personal success and hard work. Then just abuse some Xanax and start yelling at young people on some random forum. It's the dream, and the only way you'll be happy. Clearly.

Try not to get too down about the clubs. In my undergrad I got rejected from the volunteering club. They said I was too old (I was a junior), and I wouldn't be prepped for an e-board position. When I told them I didn't want to be on the e-board they stopped replying to my emails. Found out later that club was just for pre-meds to pad their resume. Now it's a good source of laughter for my non-ivy friends when we talk about the pieces of work that go to these schools. I promise you once you get your first "real" job, no one could care less about the circlejerk clubs you were in. They hardly care when you get your first one.

I got rejected from the Asian club at my school even though I’m Asian.
Forget about clubs like Finance who wouldn’t even interview me. The women engineers club also rejected me even though I’m a female engineer.
People in clubs often love to act super elitist and only let kids in from the same fancy prep schools they went to. It stings but don’t give it another thought.

And be glad you won’t be working at firms with toxic cultures like McKinsey. Try to avoid your parents as much as possible for now

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, I'm not sure if you're cut off from Colombia's resources, but absolutely see if they have a career counselor willing to talk to you. They can sit down and discuss how this affects your future with better insight than the folks here. And they've seen students in your position, and genuinely want the best for you.

Just recently I met with my grad advisor. I wanted to find an easy summer class to knock out that could be lowkey enough to not kill me during my current work crunch. Figured out I could take a class and save a couple grand and finish a semester early if I just packed it in tighter. He begged me to reconsider. Said he's seen more and more students coming back for second degrees as students have been going that route. They get burned out and get nothing but the diploma. School is really what you make of it, and you need to get something besides the paper.

I'm taking his advice and have taken the summer to leisurely research and plan my thesis before I need to get started in force. It's honestly been really nice, and has made me way more excited to work on it than I otherwise would be.

OP here. I agree with you, but the posters here seem to disagree. Idk, it seems like everyone here is saying that it doesn't matter if I graduate from Columbia burnt out and with nothing really worthy of note at graduation (connections to peers, professors, meaningful research or extracurricular experiences, etc.). They all seem to be saying that as long as I get a Columbia diploma, it'll give me a leg up in the job market forever -- even though I am super burnt out from school and also don't feel like I'm getting anything out of Columbia (connections to peers, professors, meaningful research or extracurricular experiences, etc.). I've been rejected from almost every single student club and research position I've applied to, I have no close friends, and my professors mostly tolerate me as a warm body in their class.

Don’t feel bad about not getting into clubs or finding research internships. Columbia is a tough place. My son is there. He has been rejected from every single club. Has not been able to find any sort of lab internship either. And he said the competition of trying to interview for top finance firms and investment banks is crazy. It is a sink and swim environment which gets him down sometimes. But he likes most of his classes although a few have been brutal. And he likes NYC. There is more to the school than the crazy competitive kids but it can do a number on your self confidence

OP here. You're right, and the competitive, cutthroat, sink-or-swim environment is probably contributing to my depression. I don't even like Manhattan, so it feels like there's nothing really worthwhile left for me at the school.

And it's not like the competitive, cutthroat nature of Columbia caught me off guard or I'm anyhow unfamiliar with it -- my entire life has been a miserable series of intense, cutthroat competition driven by my parents' desires to brag to their friends about my academic achievement. I was (and am) super burnt out from high school. My parents made it clear to me that their sense of self -- as well as their entire purpose for immigrating across the world -- is based on my academic performance, which college I go to, which major I declare, and how much money I make in my chosen career.

My mom is CONSTANTLY telling me how "so-and-so's daughter works at McKinsey now and just bought her parents $300 worth of gifts -- I hope you do that when you graduate!" All the immigrant parents from our Asian ethnicity fawned over my parents when I got into Columbia, and they LOVED having that extra attention and social status. When these same parents stopped fawning over them because my parents (unfortunately) had to break it to them that I was in a useless humanities major, many of these people made fun of my parents and stopped socializing with them. My mom screamed at me that half of her friends stopped talking to her because they know I won't be financially successful as a useless English major, and she blamed her social downfall among the Asian immigrant community in our area entirely on me.

I thought I would get a break from the relentless sense of competition, perfection, excellence, and miserable grind of high school in college, but Columbia is the embodiment of all of these things. The stress culture here is really high, and I don't vibe with the student body at all. I was rejected from all two dozen plus clubs I applied to (even relatively random clubs are selective at Columbia), and I have no close group of friends at school (hard to do that when every club rejects you and Columbia is so dispersed with no real sense of community).

I'm really lonely and miserable at school, and it feels impossible to reach my peers (whose competitive, intense, and elitist nature makes it hard to create long-lasting connections). When I heard Tess Majors was murdered in Morningside Park, I got pretty jealous. Why wasn't I the one who was murdered? I'd get a permanent break from the misery of my life.

To act out my passively suicidal wishes, I would go into Morningside Park alone when I had depressive episodes at night. But unfortunately no one bothered to murder me.

It will never get better. My life will always be miserable and I'll never be able to get off the rat race if I take out $80k in loans. There's no happy end in sight. Taking out $80k in loans means that I'll have to work some miserable corporate job in an intense environment so I can pay off the principle and not just be stuck paying off interest for the rest of my life.

I now think you are lying. Your parents might have pushed you academically in the past. It’s still highly unlikely that their popularity among friend is purely based on tour achievement. People just don’t care that much about other’s kids, Asians or not. You seem to blame everything on your parents and probably truly believe so, but the fact that some majors are too hard for you is not their fault. You are an adult now and have the option to cut tie from them. I don’t understand why you still want them to cover your tuition? Are you trying to punish them or something?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, I'm not sure if you're cut off from Colombia's resources, but absolutely see if they have a career counselor willing to talk to you. They can sit down and discuss how this affects your future with better insight than the folks here. And they've seen students in your position, and genuinely want the best for you.

Just recently I met with my grad advisor. I wanted to find an easy summer class to knock out that could be lowkey enough to not kill me during my current work crunch. Figured out I could take a class and save a couple grand and finish a semester early if I just packed it in tighter. He begged me to reconsider. Said he's seen more and more students coming back for second degrees as students have been going that route. They get burned out and get nothing but the diploma. School is really what you make of it, and you need to get something besides the paper.

I'm taking his advice and have taken the summer to leisurely research and plan my thesis before I need to get started in force. It's honestly been really nice, and has made me way more excited to work on it than I otherwise would be.

OP here. I agree with you, but the posters here seem to disagree. Idk, it seems like everyone here is saying that it doesn't matter if I graduate from Columbia burnt out and with nothing really worthy of note at graduation (connections to peers, professors, meaningful research or extracurricular experiences, etc.). They all seem to be saying that as long as I get a Columbia diploma, it'll give me a leg up in the job market forever -- even though I am super burnt out from school and also don't feel like I'm getting anything out of Columbia (connections to peers, professors, meaningful research or extracurricular experiences, etc.). I've been rejected from almost every single student club and research position I've applied to, I have no close friends, and my professors mostly tolerate me as a warm body in their class.

Don’t feel bad about not getting into clubs or finding research internships. Columbia is a tough place. My son is there. He has been rejected from every single club. Has not been able to find any sort of lab internship either. And he said the competition of trying to interview for top finance firms and investment banks is crazy. It is a sink and swim environment which gets him down sometimes. But he likes most of his classes although a few have been brutal. And he likes NYC. There is more to the school than the crazy competitive kids but it can do a number on your self confidence

OP here. You're right, and the competitive, cutthroat, sink-or-swim environment is probably contributing to my depression. I don't even like Manhattan, so it feels like there's nothing really worthwhile left for me at the school.

And it's not like the competitive, cutthroat nature of Columbia caught me off guard or I'm anyhow unfamiliar with it -- my entire life has been a miserable series of intense, cutthroat competition driven by my parents' desires to brag to their friends about my academic achievement. I was (and am) super burnt out from high school. My parents made it clear to me that their sense of self -- as well as their entire purpose for immigrating across the world -- is based on my academic performance, which college I go to, which major I declare, and how much money I make in my chosen career.

My mom is CONSTANTLY telling me how "so-and-so's daughter works at McKinsey now and just bought her parents $300 worth of gifts -- I hope you do that when you graduate!" All the immigrant parents from our Asian ethnicity fawned over my parents when I got into Columbia, and they LOVED having that extra attention and social status. When these same parents stopped fawning over them because my parents (unfortunately) had to break it to them that I was in a useless humanities major, many of these people made fun of my parents and stopped socializing with them. My mom screamed at me that half of her friends stopped talking to her because they know I won't be financially successful as a useless English major, and she blamed her social downfall among the Asian immigrant community in our area entirely on me.

I thought I would get a break from the relentless sense of competition, perfection, excellence, and miserable grind of high school in college, but Columbia is the embodiment of all of these things. The stress culture here is really high, and I don't vibe with the student body at all. I was rejected from all two dozen plus clubs I applied to (even relatively random clubs are selective at Columbia), and I have no close group of friends at school (hard to do that when every club rejects you and Columbia is so dispersed with no real sense of community).

I'm really lonely and miserable at school, and it feels impossible to reach my peers (whose competitive, intense, and elitist nature makes it hard to create long-lasting connections). When I heard Tess Majors was murdered in Morningside Park, I got pretty jealous. Why wasn't I the one who was murdered? I'd get a permanent break from the misery of my life.

To act out my passively suicidal wishes, I would go into Morningside Park alone when I had depressive episodes at night. But unfortunately no one bothered to murder me.

It will never get better. My life will always be miserable and I'll never be able to get off the rat race if I take out $80k in loans. There's no happy end in sight. Taking out $80k in loans means that I'll have to work some miserable corporate job in an intense environment so I can pay off the principle and not just be stuck paying off interest for the rest of my life.

I now think you are lying. Your parents might have pushed you academically in the past. It’s still highly unlikely that their popularity among friend is purely based on tour achievement. People just don’t care that much about other’s kids, Asians or not. You seem to blame everything on your parents and probably truly believe so, but the fact that some majors are too hard for you is not their fault. You are an adult now and have the option to cut tie from them. I don’t understand why you still want them to cover your tuition? Are you trying to punish them or something?

Are you Asian? My mother compared me constantly to her friends' kids until I turn 35.
I was working at a bank as a quant risk analyst after my undergrad, making 35k. Her friend's kid went to community college and landed a 40k payroll accountant job, my mom went livid on me. LOL!!

[Anonymous]

OP my kids are not a success by DCUM standards, including the non-Asians.

Their father is Arab and in a state of despair. DD once did a series of memes for him: "Your blood type is B-? Failure runs through your veins!" "We are A-rabs, not B-rabs!" Etc.

Here is what I would say to you if you were my child:

Graduating college with a gentleperson's C is perfectly fine. Usually only the HR department sees your transcript and it is really just to verify you graduated. As long as you graduate, your grade point doesn't matter at all. It could if you pursue a higher degree, but often you can get around that with compelling life experience in between or a high GRE, MCAT, LSAT. So just make sure you do enough to pass.

More options are better than fewer options. Keep Columbia on the table even if you loathe the idea now.

A bird in the hand is worth two on the bush, specifically in your case the 7 Sisters bush. Envision going back to Columbia in six months, a year or a year and a half from now. How can you re-imagine your life in NY to make it bearable? Could you find off-campus volunteer opportunities in areas that appeal to you (NYC probably has far vaster possibilities here than any other place.) Can you imagine meeting people off campus who have shared interests in these areas? Have you visited every museum as much as you like? Maybe get a volunteer job at one? Have you seen lots of low cost plays? How about a semester abroad--other PPs have good ideas along these lines.

Columbia provides you with shortest time to degree. And it is prestigious, so a degree from there will help you get jobs. The Seven Sisters is just a dream that is likely not attainable. You could go the state college route, but it will take you longer to get the degree--they may not accept all your credits and state schools have chronic problems with students not being able to get into the classes they need to graduate. And it will not be free.

About the $80,000. Okay, that's a lot and you'll have to work but it doesn't have to be in NYC and it doesn't have to be a low paying NPO that exploits its staff. Consider government work. It pays decently enough that you could make a good dent in your loans and there are a lot of interesting things government does that would seem to align with what you want.

Think about art, environment adjacent jobs. The daughter of a friend, for example, works for The Great Courses. Consider teaching at a low key boarding school in a more rural setting that provides teacher housing. The pay won't be high, but with housing and often much of your food taken care of, you could make decent debt payments. Some of them even have organic farms. Your Columbia degree (plus being Asian--diversity!) would make you very hireable. And you would meet other young teachers there likely to be kindred spirits. Note they are often from well-off families and could provide connections, though this isn't why you should consider this.

I think you are so caught up in your I loathe Columbia paradigm that you are suffering now from a failure of imagination. For my last cliche, life has handed you a bowl of lemons--start thinking about how to make them into lemonade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - get mentally strong and then make the decision that is best for you. It will be fine.
Believe in yourself and focus on being happy.
Life is not linear for most people. Just because you had a big setback does not mean your life is over.
Things have a way of working out. Be optimistic and find supportive and kind friends

Things do NOT have a way of working out. If OP drops out of Columbia, the rest of her life will be a living hell. It will be awful beyond repair. Please do not spread BS like "it will all work out" when OP is about to make a life-threatening AWFUL decision.

Yea OP, the people encouraging you to drop out and giving you hope it’ll all work out are the nut jobs here, not the ones telling you that dropping out is a huge mistake.

I assume they are all white.

[Anonymous]

Consider medication along w your therapy.

I don’t think the seven sisters plan is that realistic, I wouldn’t bank on that.

Signed,

Asian American English BA who makes pretty good money

[Anonymous]

OP I am really worried about the impact that posting here will have on your mental health. And for what? You're not going to get clear advice here anyway.

As you see, people here are saying totally contradictory things and projecting themselves on you. You need real conversations and real support from real people.

I come from a very similar background as you and have had very similar experiences and struggles. Also worked as a college admissions consultant helping students get into top (and not-so-top) colleges. I've been poor and rich and seen it all.

I know the debt is not worth it. Don't let your parents' toxicity mess with your head. Don't let the idiots on this board mess with your head. Remember that everyone has a bias, but it's hard to fully see that bias when it's just a message on an anonymous board.

[Anonymous]

OP, I think 18:49 has good advice.

I loathed the college I chose based on prestige (not as prestigious as Columbia, but still a name school with an unhealthy culture). I was so miserable and ended up dropping out after my sophomore year, working and traveling, and ultimately coming back and graduating after three additional semesters. It was miserable, but I did it and don't regret it. For those last three semesters, I treated classes like a job. I lived off campus by myself. I avoided socializing with people from school entirely. Yes, I was still depressed and anxious, but creating distance between me and the social environment made it manageable. I still hate the school with a passion and have to bite my tongue when friends' kids decide to attend.

As for the money, I do think it is worth it. People are snooty prestige whores even if you are not in law or banking, and a Columbia degree will pay dividends. It creates the presumption that you are smart and capable. Also, look into public interest loan repayment programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, I'm not sure if you're cut off from Colombia's resources, but absolutely see if they have a career counselor willing to talk to you. They can sit down and discuss how this affects your future with better insight than the folks here. And they've seen students in your position, and genuinely want the best for you.

Just recently I met with my grad advisor. I wanted to find an easy summer class to knock out that could be lowkey enough to not kill me during my current work crunch. Figured out I could take a class and save a couple grand and finish a semester early if I just packed it in tighter. He begged me to reconsider. Said he's seen more and more students coming back for second degrees as students have been going that route. They get burned out and get nothing but the diploma. School is really what you make of it, and you need to get something besides the paper.

I'm taking his advice and have taken the summer to leisurely research and plan my thesis before I need to get started in force. It's honestly been really nice, and has made me way more excited to work on it than I otherwise would be.

OP here. I agree with you, but the posters here seem to disagree. Idk, it seems like everyone here is saying that it doesn't matter if I graduate from Columbia burnt out and with nothing really worthy of note at graduation (connections to peers, professors, meaningful research or extracurricular experiences, etc.). They all seem to be saying that as long as I get a Columbia diploma, it'll give me a leg up in the job market forever -- even though I am super burnt out from school and also don't feel like I'm getting anything out of Columbia (connections to peers, professors, meaningful research or extracurricular experiences, etc.). I've been rejected from almost every single student club and research position I've applied to, I have no close friends, and my professors mostly tolerate me as a warm body in their class.

Don’t feel bad about not getting into clubs or finding research internships. Columbia is a tough place. My son is there. He has been rejected from every single club. Has not been able to find any sort of lab internship either. And he said the competition of trying to interview for top finance firms and investment banks is crazy. It is a sink and swim environment which gets him down sometimes. But he likes most of his classes although a few have been brutal. And he likes NYC. There is more to the school than the crazy competitive kids but it can do a number on your self confidence

OP here. You're right, and the competitive, cutthroat, sink-or-swim environment is probably contributing to my depression. I don't even like Manhattan, so it feels like there's nothing really worthwhile left for me at the school.

And it's not like the competitive, cutthroat nature of Columbia caught me off guard or I'm anyhow unfamiliar with it -- my entire life has been a miserable series of intense, cutthroat competition driven by my parents' desires to brag to their friends about my academic achievement. I was (and am) super burnt out from high school. My parents made it clear to me that their sense of self -- as well as their entire purpose for immigrating across the world -- is based on my academic performance, which college I go to, which major I declare, and how much money I make in my chosen career.

My mom is CONSTANTLY telling me how "so-and-so's daughter works at McKinsey now and just bought her parents $300 worth of gifts -- I hope you do that when you graduate!" All the immigrant parents from our Asian ethnicity fawned over my parents when I got into Columbia, and they LOVED having that extra attention and social status. When these same parents stopped fawning over them because my parents (unfortunately) had to break it to them that I was in a useless humanities major, many of these people made fun of my parents and stopped socializing with them. My mom screamed at me that half of her friends stopped talking to her because they know I won't be financially successful as a useless English major, and she blamed her social downfall among the Asian immigrant community in our area entirely on me.

I thought I would get a break from the relentless sense of competition, perfection, excellence, and miserable grind of high school in college, but Columbia is the embodiment of all of these things. The stress culture here is really high, and I don't vibe with the student body at all. I was rejected from all two dozen plus clubs I applied to (even relatively random clubs are selective at Columbia), and I have no close group of friends at school (hard to do that when every club rejects you and Columbia is so dispersed with no real sense of community).

I'm really lonely and miserable at school, and it feels impossible to reach my peers (whose competitive, intense, and elitist nature makes it hard to create long-lasting connections). When I heard Tess Majors was murdered in Morningside Park, I got pretty jealous. Why wasn't I the one who was murdered? I'd get a permanent break from the misery of my life.

To act out my passively suicidal wishes, I would go into Morningside Park alone when I had depressive episodes at night. But unfortunately no one bothered to murder me...

It will never get better. My life will always be miserable and I'll never be able to get off the rat race if I take out $80k in loans. There's no happy end in sight. Taking out $80k in loans means that I'll have to work some miserable corporate job in an intense environment so I can pay off the principle and not just be stuck paying off interest for the rest of my life.

OP: I promise it is going to get better. I promise. How it is now, is not how it will always be. Your parents may never change but you can get off this hamster wheel that is making you feel like this. It will take a while for your brain to catch up with a new life - don't expect yourself to feel like a new person overnight - but you can find a different life for yourself. One that is meaningful to you. I promise you, I PROMISE you, this is possible. You are a valuable person who deserves to be happy.