Official Brett Kavanaugh Thread, Part 5

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And yet unfortunately the liberals decided not to focus on these things but instead of an allegation of sexual assault that had zero evidence to back it up.

Zero evidence? Julie Swetnick is a woman with an impeccable reputation. She was at 10 parties where Kavanaugh was spiking the punch bowl and gang raping women. She had 4 witnesses that could back up her story but Trump made sure the FBI would not investigate her claim.

Is this supposed to be a joke. This allegation blew the whole case for the Democrats. Not believable at all.

I know that when I head out to a gang rape, I always pack a punch bowl. It adds a touch of class.

Anybody who thinks that a 20 year old woman who went to Gaithersburg High is going to be hanging out with a bunch of 16-17 year old Georgetown Prep students on 10 different occasions clearly never went to private school in this area.

And punch bowls? What high school party have you ever seen a punch bowl at?

I went to public school in MoCo. While in high school I hung out with many prep school kids - including kids from Georgetown Prep. No crazy animal house parties for us (we were NOT the Brett Kavanaugh type of high schoolers). But we certainly socialized together and we were all kids were from affluent families. I'm not sure why posters are suggesting that it impossible that public school and private school kids didn't mix. Depending on the neighborhood, we certainly did.

Swetnick was 20 years old hanging out with 16-17 year old kids not once but 10 times. There was a spiked punch bowl and a line of guys waiting to rape drunk girls. Where are all the other rape victims? Who continues going to these parties afterwards?

Brock Turner's victim was also in her 20s, a college graduate. Do you think she was lying about being at the frat party?

There were two witnesses who pulled her away so there was proof and it also was reported immediately. Attending a frat party in your early 20's is not the same thing as attending a high school party.

she said they were mixed aged parties and had kids from high school and college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Let's say that he did what she said

And there in lies the rub, after how many investigations were her accusations proven either false or inconsistent?
Whistling in the wind, nothing more.

what investigation? are you counting the sham one that didn't even interview Kavanaugh and Dr. Ford?

The FBI made their stance clear. They had already investigated Kavanaugh long before the hearings. There was nothing new to find. The director of the FBI said that the only point of further investigations would be to trip both of them up on claims of perjury. Given that it's pretty clear that both of them did technically like (Kavanaugh definitely was a heavy drinker, Ford definitely changed her story several times) those would be the only findings from the FBI. Of the two, Ford had a lot more to lose, with people refusing to corroborate her allegation, an ex boyfriend of six years releasing a letter saying Ford's claims of being afraid to fly or needing a place with two doors were bullshit because she flew all the time and lived in a studio apartment with only one door, for five years. Or the discrepancy between the therapist' notes and what Ford later told the Senate. Those are the things the FBI would be investigating Ford for. And she'd be prosecuted for having lied to the FBI and the Senate. It would have never been about what happened in the summer of 1982.

Ford did not change her story, and the She will never be prosecuted by the FBI, she did nothing wrong.
THE FBI did not investigate his high school or college years.

Ford didn't tell anyone before 2012 about this....30 years later. Since she didn't allow the complete history in the session with her counselor be reviewed no one knows the whole of it over the past 6 years. And she did contradict herself. Some call it a lie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean how can people jump on Whelan for smearing a citizen's name without proof but not Ford for doing the same thing? Note how the article calls telling Ford that she's lying is "ugly business" as if it's not possible in this day and age to even say or think this after hearing testimony.

Ford was the victim. She has the right to say who attacked her. Whelan was not there, he was not the victim, he was the heavy hitter the GOP brought in to make up an alternative story line.

No, she is not a victim. It was never determined to be a fact, only an accusation. If there was a way to prove it one way or the other then we could determine who the victim is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The pattern I see is he's accused of lying, only to then have other people or evidence backing him up as being accurate. The "pattern" shows multiple cases where the people accusing him were wrong, and maybe a couple cases where there might be some question left.

You see it in this thread, people talking about "all the lies" he told about his HS yearbook. They're including the drinking (not a lie), the devils triangle (not a lie), FFFF (not a lie). Of course when you include things that aren't lies, the list appears to be a pattern. When you consider the list and start throwing things out that have been demonstrated not a lie, suddenly it's not a pattern.

The pattern I see is Brett lying and a very select group of his friends backing him up when everyone else says those were lies.

And those aren’t the lies of substance. Brett lied about receiving and using stolen emails while working in the Bush White House. Perjury. He did it. And it’s a big damn deal.

Do you care enough about the truth to verify that claim. Fact is 4 people who knew him back then stated he was lying and yet every statement they made actually verified what Kavanaugh said. Even the person that was referring to blackouts didn't include that he knew for a fact Kavanaugh had a blackout but presumed he had one based on the amount of alcohol. Which proves nothing. I know someone personally that had a .22 or .26 and didn't blackout and they were the proverbial drunk on their ass drunk. Went to jail too.

As to those friends who declared he was lying...I saw the headline, some of the 'key' text but was shocked when I read the whole thing and discovered it was bs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And yet unfortunately the liberals decided not to focus on these things but instead of an allegation of sexual assault that had zero evidence to back it up.

Zero evidence? Julie Swetnick is a woman with an impeccable reputation. She was at 10 parties where Kavanaugh was spiking the punch bowl and gang raping women. She had 4 witnesses that could back up her story but Trump made sure the FBI would not investigate her claim.

Is this supposed to be a joke. This allegation blew the whole case for the Democrats. Not believable at all.

I know that when I head out to a gang rape, I always pack a punch bowl. It adds a touch of class.

Anybody who thinks that a 20 year old woman who went to Gaithersburg High is going to be hanging out with a bunch of 16-17 year old Georgetown Prep students on 10 different occasions clearly never went to private school in this area.

And punch bowls? What high school party have you ever seen a punch bowl at?

I went to public school in MoCo. While in high school I hung out with many prep school kids - including kids from Georgetown Prep. No crazy animal house parties for us (we were NOT the Brett Kavanaugh type of high schoolers). But we certainly socialized together and we were all kids were from affluent families. I'm not sure why posters are suggesting that it impossible that public school and private school kids didn't mix. Depending on the neighborhood, we certainly did.

Swetnick was 20 years old hanging out with 16-17 year old kids not once but 10 times. There was a spiked punch bowl and a line of guys waiting to rape drunk girls. Where are all the other rape victims? Who continues going to these parties afterwards?

Brock Turner's victim was also in her 20s, a college graduate. Do you think she was lying about being at the frat party?

There were two witnesses who pulled her away so there was proof and it also was reported immediately. Attending a frat party in your early 20's is not the same thing as attending a high school party.

she said they were mixed aged parties and had kids from high school and college.

Yes she did say that and what a credible witness she is. There is not one witness to back her story up. If these boys were doing this to multiple girls there would be more victims. Correct? She also never stated that kavanaugh participated in the rape. He stood by the punch bowl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And yet unfortunately the liberals decided not to focus on these things but instead of an allegation of sexual assault that had zero evidence to back it up.

Zero evidence? Julie Swetnick is a woman with an impeccable reputation. She was at 10 parties where Kavanaugh was spiking the punch bowl and gang raping women. She had 4 witnesses that could back up her story but Trump made sure the FBI would not investigate her claim.

Is this supposed to be a joke. This allegation blew the whole case for the Democrats. Not believable at all.

I know that when I head out to a gang rape, I always pack a punch bowl. It adds a touch of class.

Anybody who thinks that a 20 year old woman who went to Gaithersburg High is going to be hanging out with a bunch of 16-17 year old Georgetown Prep students on 10 different occasions clearly never went to private school in this area.

And punch bowls? What high school party have you ever seen a punch bowl at?

I went to public school in MoCo. While in high school I hung out with many prep school kids - including kids from Georgetown Prep. No crazy animal house parties for us (we were NOT the Brett Kavanaugh type of high schoolers). But we certainly socialized together and we were all kids were from affluent families. I'm not sure why posters are suggesting that it impossible that public school and private school kids didn't mix. Depending on the neighborhood, we certainly did.

Swetnick was 20 years old hanging out with 16-17 year old kids not once but 10 times. There was a spiked punch bowl and a line of guys waiting to rape drunk girls. Where are all the other rape victims? Who continues going to these parties afterwards?

Brock Turner's victim was also in her 20s, a college graduate. Do you think she was lying about being at the frat party?

Brock Turner was 19 at the time. The woman in question was 22. Both are in the age range you'd expect to see at a Frat party. And those two didn't socialize regularly. In fact the two didn't even know each other. Turner saw some woman passed out and sexually assaulted her. He was arrested at the scene and she was medically examined for signs of sexual assault. There were plenty of witnesses including the victim's sister who was able to place him at the party as well as several witness who physically detained Turner until the police arrived.

What Swetnick is alleging is far more severe, malicious, well planned and on going involving multiple perpetrators and many, many victims, yet she can provide nothing other than her highly suspect word and a story this doesn't stand up to any common sense examination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And yet unfortunately the liberals decided not to focus on these things but instead of an allegation of sexual assault that had zero evidence to back it up.

Zero evidence? Julie Swetnick is a woman with an impeccable reputation. She was at 10 parties where Kavanaugh was spiking the punch bowl and gang raping women. She had 4 witnesses that could back up her story but Trump made sure the FBI would not investigate her claim.

Is this supposed to be a joke. This allegation blew the whole case for the Democrats. Not believable at all.

I know that when I head out to a gang rape, I always pack a punch bowl. It adds a touch of class.

Anybody who thinks that a 20 year old woman who went to Gaithersburg High is going to be hanging out with a bunch of 16-17 year old Georgetown Prep students on 10 different occasions clearly never went to private school in this area.

And punch bowls? What high school party have you ever seen a punch bowl at?

I went to public school in MoCo. While in high school I hung out with many prep school kids - including kids from Georgetown Prep. No crazy animal house parties for us (we were NOT the Brett Kavanaugh type of high schoolers). But we certainly socialized together and we were all kids were from affluent families. I'm not sure why posters are suggesting that it impossible that public school and private school kids didn't mix. Depending on the neighborhood, we certainly did.

Swetnick was 20 years old hanging out with 16-17 year old kids not once but 10 times. There was a spiked punch bowl and a line of guys waiting to rape drunk girls. Where are all the other rape victims? Who continues going to these parties afterwards?

Brock Turner's victim was also in her 20s, a college graduate. Do you think she was lying about being at the frat party?

Do you see a difference between an adult-aged person at a party with other adult-aged people, and an adult-aged person at a party with high school aged people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And yet unfortunately the liberals decided not to focus on these things but instead of an allegation of sexual assault that had zero evidence to back it up.

Zero evidence? Julie Swetnick is a woman with an impeccable reputation. She was at 10 parties where Kavanaugh was spiking the punch bowl and gang raping women. She had 4 witnesses that could back up her story but Trump made sure the FBI would not investigate her claim.

Is this supposed to be a joke. This allegation blew the whole case for the Democrats. Not believable at all.

I know that when I head out to a gang rape, I always pack a punch bowl. It adds a touch of class.

Anybody who thinks that a 20 year old woman who went to Gaithersburg High is going to be hanging out with a bunch of 16-17 year old Georgetown Prep students on 10 different occasions clearly never went to private school in this area.

And punch bowls? What high school party have you ever seen a punch bowl at?

I went to public school in MoCo. While in high school I hung out with many prep school kids - including kids from Georgetown Prep. No crazy animal house parties for us (we were NOT the Brett Kavanaugh type of high schoolers). But we certainly socialized together and we were all kids were from affluent families. I'm not sure why posters are suggesting that it impossible that public school and private school kids didn't mix. Depending on the neighborhood, we certainly did.

Swetnick was 20 years old hanging out with 16-17 year old kids not once but 10 times. There was a spiked punch bowl and a line of guys waiting to rape drunk girls. Where are all the other rape victims? Who continues going to these parties afterwards?

Brock Turner's victim was also in her 20s, a college graduate. Do you think she was lying about being at the frat party?

There were two witnesses who pulled her away so there was proof and it also was reported immediately. Attending a frat party in your early 20's is not the same thing as attending a high school party.

she said they were mixed aged parties and had kids from high school and college.

And the high school kids were the ones with the drugs and the alcohol and the rape, and the college aged adults were helplessly in their thrall?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And yet unfortunately the liberals decided not to focus on these things but instead of an allegation of sexual assault that had zero evidence to back it up.

Zero evidence? Julie Swetnick is a woman with an impeccable reputation. She was at 10 parties where Kavanaugh was spiking the punch bowl and gang raping women. She had 4 witnesses that could back up her story but Trump made sure the FBI would not investigate her claim.

Is this supposed to be a joke. This allegation blew the whole case for the Democrats. Not believable at all.

I know that when I head out to a gang rape, I always pack a punch bowl. It adds a touch of class.

Anybody who thinks that a 20 year old woman who went to Gaithersburg High is going to be hanging out with a bunch of 16-17 year old Georgetown Prep students on 10 different occasions clearly never went to private school in this area.

And punch bowls? What high school party have you ever seen a punch bowl at?

I went to public school in MoCo. While in high school I hung out with many prep school kids - including kids from Georgetown Prep. No crazy animal house parties for us (we were NOT the Brett Kavanaugh type of high schoolers). But we certainly socialized together and we were all kids were from affluent families. I'm not sure why posters are suggesting that it impossible that public school and private school kids didn't mix. Depending on the neighborhood, we certainly did.

Swetnick was 20 years old hanging out with 16-17 year old kids not once but 10 times. There was a spiked punch bowl and a line of guys waiting to rape drunk girls. Where are all the other rape victims? Who continues going to these parties afterwards?

Brock Turner's victim was also in her 20s, a college graduate. Do you think she was lying about being at the frat party?

Brock Turner was 19 at the time. The woman in question was 22. Both are in the age range you'd expect to see at a Frat party. And those two didn't socialize regularly. In fact the two didn't even know each other. Turner saw some woman passed out and sexually assaulted her. He was arrested at the scene and she was medically examined for signs of sexual assault. There were plenty of witnesses including the victim's sister who was able to place him at the party as well as several witness who physically detained Turner until the police arrived.

What Swetnick is alleging is far more severe, malicious, well planned and on going involving multiple perpetrators and many, many victims, yet she can provide nothing other than her highly suspect word and a story this doesn't stand up to any common sense examination.

Exactly this. Sad that this even needs to be explained.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And yet unfortunately the liberals decided not to focus on these things but instead of an allegation of sexual assault that had zero evidence to back it up.

Zero evidence? Julie Swetnick is a woman with an impeccable reputation. She was at 10 parties where Kavanaugh was spiking the punch bowl and gang raping women. She had 4 witnesses that could back up her story but Trump made sure the FBI would not investigate her claim.

Is this supposed to be a joke. This allegation blew the whole case for the Democrats. Not believable at all.

I know that when I head out to a gang rape, I always pack a punch bowl. It adds a touch of class.

Anybody who thinks that a 20 year old woman who went to Gaithersburg High is going to be hanging out with a bunch of 16-17 year old Georgetown Prep students on 10 different occasions clearly never went to private school in this area.

And punch bowls? What high school party have you ever seen a punch bowl at?

I went to public school in MoCo. While in high school I hung out with many prep school kids - including kids from Georgetown Prep. No crazy animal house parties for us (we were NOT the Brett Kavanaugh type of high schoolers). But we certainly socialized together and we were all kids were from affluent families. I'm not sure why posters are suggesting that it impossible that public school and private school kids didn't mix. Depending on the neighborhood, we certainly did.

Swetnick was 20 years old hanging out with 16-17 year old kids not once but 10 times. There was a spiked punch bowl and a line of guys waiting to rape drunk girls. Where are all the other rape victims? Who continues going to these parties afterwards?

Brock Turner's victim was also in her 20s, a college graduate. Do you think she was lying about being at the frat party?

There were two witnesses who pulled her away so there was proof and it also was reported immediately. Attending a frat party in your early 20's is not the same thing as attending a high school party.

she said they were mixed aged parties and had kids from high school and college.

Yes she did say that and what a credible witness she is. There is not one witness to back her story up. If these boys were doing this to multiple girls there would be more victims. Correct? She also never stated that kavanaugh participated in the rape. He stood by the punch bowl.

This is what blows my mind. Why on earth would you try and ruin someone's life with a report like this? That the person actually wasn't involved in anything nefarious, but OMG - he was in the same place, so there's a chance he *could* have been involved!! That just smacks of someone who desperately wants his or her 15 min. of fame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And yet unfortunately the liberals decided not to focus on these things but instead of an allegation of sexual assault that had zero evidence to back it up.

Zero evidence? Julie Swetnick is a woman with an impeccable reputation. She was at 10 parties where Kavanaugh was spiking the punch bowl and gang raping women. She had 4 witnesses that could back up her story but Trump made sure the FBI would not investigate her claim.

Is this supposed to be a joke. This allegation blew the whole case for the Democrats. Not believable at all.

I know that when I head out to a gang rape, I always pack a punch bowl. It adds a touch of class.

Anybody who thinks that a 20 year old woman who went to Gaithersburg High is going to be hanging out with a bunch of 16-17 year old Georgetown Prep students on 10 different occasions clearly never went to private school in this area.

And punch bowls? What high school party have you ever seen a punch bowl at?

I went to public school in MoCo. While in high school I hung out with many prep school kids - including kids from Georgetown Prep. No crazy animal house parties for us (we were NOT the Brett Kavanaugh type of high schoolers). But we certainly socialized together and we were all kids were from affluent families. I'm not sure why posters are suggesting that it impossible that public school and private school kids didn't mix. Depending on the neighborhood, we certainly did.

Swetnick was 20 years old hanging out with 16-17 year old kids not once but 10 times. There was a spiked punch bowl and a line of guys waiting to rape drunk girls. Where are all the other rape victims? Who continues going to these parties afterwards?

Brock Turner's victim was also in her 20s, a college graduate. Do you think she was lying about being at the frat party?

Brock Turner was 19 at the time. The woman in question was 22. Both are in the age range you'd expect to see at a Frat party. And those two didn't socialize regularly. In fact the two didn't even know each other. Turner saw some woman passed out and sexually assaulted her. He was arrested at the scene and she was medically examined for signs of sexual assault. There were plenty of witnesses including the victim's sister who was able to place him at the party as well as several witness who physically detained Turner until the police arrived.

What Swetnick is alleging is far more severe, malicious, well planned and on going involving multiple perpetrators and many, many victims, yet she can provide nothing other than her highly suspect word and a story this doesn't stand up to any common sense examination.

Exactly this. Sad that this even needs to be explained.

Explain it again. The progressive fascisti on this forum don’t get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anybody who thinks that a 20 year old woman who went to Gaithersburg High is going to be hanging out with a bunch of 16-17 year old Georgetown Prep students on 10 different occasions clearly never went to private school in this area.

And punch bowls? What high school party have you ever seen a punch bowl at?

I went to public school in MoCo. While in high school I hung out with many prep school kids - including kids from Georgetown Prep. No crazy animal house parties for us (we were NOT the Brett Kavanaugh type of high schoolers). But we certainly socialized together and we were all kids were from affluent families. I'm not sure why posters are suggesting that it impossible that public school and private school kids didn't mix. Depending on the neighborhood, we certainly did.

Swetnick was 20 years old hanging out with 16-17 year old kids not once but 10 times. There was a spiked punch bowl and a line of guys waiting to rape drunk girls. Where are all the other rape victims? Who continues going to these parties afterwards?

Brock Turner's victim was also in her 20s, a college graduate. Do you think she was lying about being at the frat party?

There were two witnesses who pulled her away so there was proof and it also was reported immediately. Attending a frat party in your early 20's is not the same thing as attending a high school party.

she said they were mixed aged parties and had kids from high school and college.

LOL,when questioned what she was doing at HS parties at the age of 20/21 she said that the people at these parties were "mixed age" with people anywhere between "15/16 to 25...maybe more". 15 year old Catholic prep-school kids hanging out with 25+ year old adults from Gaithersburg on 10 different instances? Right....

I time stamped the point in the interview if anybody wants a good laugh.

https://youtu.be/hq_aFCg6bKY?t=150

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anybody who thinks that a 20 year old woman who went to Gaithersburg High is going to be hanging out with a bunch of 16-17 year old Georgetown Prep students on 10 different occasions clearly never went to private school in this area.

And punch bowls? What high school party have you ever seen a punch bowl at?

I went to public school in MoCo. While in high school I hung out with many prep school kids - including kids from Georgetown Prep. No crazy animal house parties for us (we were NOT the Brett Kavanaugh type of high schoolers). But we certainly socialized together and we were all kids were from affluent families. I'm not sure why posters are suggesting that it impossible that public school and private school kids didn't mix. Depending on the neighborhood, we certainly did.

Swetnick was 20 years old hanging out with 16-17 year old kids not once but 10 times. There was a spiked punch bowl and a line of guys waiting to rape drunk girls. Where are all the other rape victims? Who continues going to these parties afterwards?

Brock Turner's victim was also in her 20s, a college graduate. Do you think she was lying about being at the frat party?

There were two witnesses who pulled her away so there was proof and it also was reported immediately. Attending a frat party in your early 20's is not the same thing as attending a high school party.

she said they were mixed aged parties and had kids from high school and college.

LOL,when questioned what she was doing at HS parties at the age of 20/21 she said that the people at these parties were "mixed age" with people anywhere between "15/16 to 25...maybe more". 15 year old Catholic prep-school kids hanging out with 25+ year old adults from Gaithersburg on 10 different instances? Right....

I time stamped the point in the interview if anybody wants a good laugh.

https://youtu.be/hq_aFCg6bKY?t=150

OMG. I just watched this. She claims Kavanaugh was wearing "his Georgetown Prep uniform" when she met him. Um, there IS NO GP UNIFORM. A jacket and tie, but no uniform. She said she thinks he was "proud" of his uniform. Wow, that's not a lie at all. She's *completely* believable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG. I just watched this. She claims Kavanaugh was wearing "his Georgetown Prep uniform" when she met him. Um, there IS NO GP UNIFORM. A jacket and tie, but no uniform. She said she thinks he was "proud" of his uniform. Wow, that's not a lie at all. She's *completely* believable.

You literally just described a school uniform.

[Anonymous]

And then she totally retracts her sworn statement where she said Kavanaugh and Judge spiked the punch bowl. Now she says merely, they were "near" the punch bowl. Sorry, this woman is lying. Anyone who insists otherwise just looks idiotic.