Breaking up with my toxic mom group (Ashley Tisdale essay)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

Tisdale said nothing about mandy or Hilary but you clearly have an axe to grind. Why are you so mad?

I have no axe to grind. Just find the whole thing so sophomoric and was trying to put my finger on why I feel that way.

You’re not really making any deep insights here. Ashley said it was stupid and highschoolish and when she finally realized what was going on and how it made her feel, got out of it. Sometimes people just get caught up in things and with babies and a new phase of life maybe wasn’t being as clearheaded as she should have been. It resonates with some people and not with others. But it’s weird that people keep coming back in here to tell everyone how they just don’t get it and can’t figure it out. I’m not divorced but I don’t need to go into divorce threads telling people I just get why everyone can’t get along because I’m happily married.

Well that’s fine - only she didn’t just “get out of it once she realized how immature it was.” She wrote a public article on it and slandered her ex friends. And she didn’t “get out of it” she was iced out. So she’s not low drama. She’s the definition of high drama.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

I don’t think you can say it’s all just Ashley Tisdale airing random grievances and “what’s the other side of the story” when Hilary Duff’s husband stepped in, guns a blazin. Now Hilary (and her husband) both look kind of crazy and guilty. They could have stayed out of it and the whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, now look what we’re all talking about.

This. The messiest move here has been Duff's husband attacking Ashley directly, basically confirming for everyone that Hillary is part of the "toxic mom group" even as Ashley was denying that there were other famous moms in the group she was talking about.

Also, just a general pet peeve -- there is no "hearsay" here. It's not court. IRL, people can talk about their experiences and you can decide whether or not you trust their account or not, but there's no rule that you can't share things that other people may have said or done to you. Which, by the way, Tisdale didn't even do because she doesn't even say who any of the moms in her mom group were and she's not actually accusing anyone of anything.

I'm sorry, did you read the article? She's definitely accusing people of being petty, mean, toxic, exclusive, etc. If what she said wasn't bad at all then no one would be talking about it...

You have to name names to accuse people. She was purposefully vague. If her former friends recognized themselves they should have just said they don’t know her or have any idea what she’s talking about if asked. Not do what Mr Duff did.

So they should have...lied?

And no, you don't have to name names to accuse people. It's like when a celebrity says something bad about a co-star. It's not like they're talking about someone else on the planet - they're clearly talking about a defined group of people.

They should have said nothing. If they had ignored the article and not involved themselves at all, I think it would have blown over in a few days and no one would care about it at all.

Duff's husband basically put up a bit flashing neon sign saying "HEY MY WIFE WAS 100% IN THAT GROUP ASHLEY TISDALE SAID WAS TOXIC AND IN CASE YOU WERE WONDERING: IT WAS AND IS TOXIC AND, SURPRISE!, I'M PART OF THE PROBLEM TOO."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

Tisdale said nothing about mandy or Hilary but you clearly have an axe to grind. Why are you so mad?

I have no axe to grind. Just find the whole thing so sophomoric and was trying to put my finger on why I feel that way.

You’re not really making any deep insights here. Ashley said it was stupid and highschoolish and when she finally realized what was going on and how it made her feel, got out of it. Sometimes people just get caught up in things and with babies and a new phase of life maybe wasn’t being as clearheaded as she should have been. It resonates with some people and not with others. But it’s weird that people keep coming back in here to tell everyone how they just don’t get it and can’t figure it out. I’m not divorced but I don’t need to go into divorce threads telling people I just get why everyone can’t get along because I’m happily married.

Well that’s fine - only she didn’t just “get out of it once she realized how immature it was.” She wrote a public article on it and slandered her ex friends. And she didn’t “get out of it” she was iced out. So she’s not low drama. She’s the definition of high drama.

Nobody was slandered. She’s allowed to write about her own personal experiences after the fact. Your overreaction is a bit dramatic here.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

I don’t think you can say it’s all just Ashley Tisdale airing random grievances and “what’s the other side of the story” when Hilary Duff’s husband stepped in, guns a blazin. Now Hilary (and her husband) both look kind of crazy and guilty. They could have stayed out of it and the whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, now look what we’re all talking about.

This. The messiest move here has been Duff's husband attacking Ashley directly, basically confirming for everyone that Hillary is part of the "toxic mom group" even as Ashley was denying that there were other famous moms in the group she was talking about.

Also, just a general pet peeve -- there is no "hearsay" here. It's not court. IRL, people can talk about their experiences and you can decide whether or not you trust their account or not, but there's no rule that you can't share things that other people may have said or done to you. Which, by the way, Tisdale didn't even do because she doesn't even say who any of the moms in her mom group were and she's not actually accusing anyone of anything.

I'm sorry, did you read the article? She's definitely accusing people of being petty, mean, toxic, exclusive, etc. If what she said wasn't bad at all then no one would be talking about it...

You have to name names to accuse people. She was purposefully vague. If her former friends recognized themselves they should have just said they don’t know her or have any idea what she’s talking about if asked. Not do what Mr Duff did.

So they should have...lied?

And no, you don't have to name names to accuse people. It's like when a celebrity says something bad about a co-star. It's not like they're talking about someone else on the planet - they're clearly talking about a defined group of people.

You don’t think celebs lie all the time? It’s what they do. They deny dating rumors, break up rumors, rumors about being difficult on set or having beef with co-stars. Yes, they lie.

Everyone lies. But I find it odd that you're saying that the proper reaction to Ashley's article was to lie. That's...interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

I don’t think you can say it’s all just Ashley Tisdale airing random grievances and “what’s the other side of the story” when Hilary Duff’s husband stepped in, guns a blazin. Now Hilary (and her husband) both look kind of crazy and guilty. They could have stayed out of it and the whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, now look what we’re all talking about.

This. The messiest move here has been Duff's husband attacking Ashley directly, basically confirming for everyone that Hillary is part of the "toxic mom group" even as Ashley was denying that there were other famous moms in the group she was talking about.

Also, just a general pet peeve -- there is no "hearsay" here. It's not court. IRL, people can talk about their experiences and you can decide whether or not you trust their account or not, but there's no rule that you can't share things that other people may have said or done to you. Which, by the way, Tisdale didn't even do because she doesn't even say who any of the moms in her mom group were and she's not actually accusing anyone of anything.

I'm sorry, did you read the article? She's definitely accusing people of being petty, mean, toxic, exclusive, etc. If what she said wasn't bad at all then no one would be talking about it...

She didn't name names. She also doesn't just name call. She's not saying "ugh all the women in this group were petty, mean, toxic, and exclusive." Rather, she describes her personal experience of feeling excluded or left out, and many people concluded upon reading it "oh that is mean". She calls the group and its dynamics toxic (which, based on what we continue to find out, appears to be spot on) but says she thinks the women *in* the group are mostly good people caught in a negative dynamic. The meanest thing she says is that she thinks one of the women in the group might not be a good person, but she doesn't say who that woman is nor does she describe anything specifically this woman did that might provide hints as to who it is.

I read the piece when it came out and I didn't think "wow she's really calling these women out." My first thought was "yeah it is too bad when women get caught up in those dynamics -- I've been stuck in dynamics like that before and it sucks." I viewed it as a criticism of how women in general sometimes relate to each other, and not an attack on specific women at all.

Weird take, but ok. If she was fine with all the women, like you seem to claim, then why couldn't they have either ironed out their differences or left on a good note? Better yet, why couldn't they all have written a joint article about the ways in which groups of really nice women can somehow become toxic when all of them are so nice?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

I don’t think you can say it’s all just Ashley Tisdale airing random grievances and “what’s the other side of the story” when Hilary Duff’s husband stepped in, guns a blazin. Now Hilary (and her husband) both look kind of crazy and guilty. They could have stayed out of it and the whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, now look what we’re all talking about.

This. The messiest move here has been Duff's husband attacking Ashley directly, basically confirming for everyone that Hillary is part of the "toxic mom group" even as Ashley was denying that there were other famous moms in the group she was talking about.

Also, just a general pet peeve -- there is no "hearsay" here. It's not court. IRL, people can talk about their experiences and you can decide whether or not you trust their account or not, but there's no rule that you can't share things that other people may have said or done to you. Which, by the way, Tisdale didn't even do because she doesn't even say who any of the moms in her mom group were and she's not actually accusing anyone of anything.

I'm sorry, did you read the article? She's definitely accusing people of being petty, mean, toxic, exclusive, etc. If what she said wasn't bad at all then no one would be talking about it...

You have to name names to accuse people. She was purposefully vague. If her former friends recognized themselves they should have just said they don’t know her or have any idea what she’s talking about if asked. Not do what Mr Duff did.

So they should have...lied?

And no, you don't have to name names to accuse people. It's like when a celebrity says something bad about a co-star. It's not like they're talking about someone else on the planet - they're clearly talking about a defined group of people.

You don’t think celebs lie all the time? It’s what they do. They deny dating rumors, break up rumors, rumors about being difficult on set or having beef with co-stars. Yes, they lie.

Everyone lies. But I find it odd that you're saying that the proper reaction to Ashley's article was to lie. That's...interesting.

In their eyes it would almost certainly just be a denial. To Ashley it might appear to be a lie. She felt iced out and ignored. They might say they just didn’t like her becasue of x, y, z. They likely have a different take. So it’s not a lie but a different interpretation so they “don’t know what she’s talking about” or “aren’t friends” . It’s really not that hard. Do you often see things in black and white?

[Anonymous]

Just like when the pretty girl gets excluded by the other mean girls at the best lunch table in middle school, this group pulled the same on a former actress. Women can be the worst to other women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just like when the pretty girl gets excluded by the other mean girls at the best lunch table in middle school, this group pulled the same on a former actress. Women can be the worst to other women.

I think they probably just didn’t like her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just like when the pretty girl gets excluded by the other mean girls at the best lunch table in middle school, this group pulled the same on a former actress. Women can be the worst to other women.

All the women named are famously pretty. I think the interpersonal dynamics are probably a bit more complex than all my haterz jus jellus.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

I don’t think you can say it’s all just Ashley Tisdale airing random grievances and “what’s the other side of the story” when Hilary Duff’s husband stepped in, guns a blazin. Now Hilary (and her husband) both look kind of crazy and guilty. They could have stayed out of it and the whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, now look what we’re all talking about.

This. The messiest move here has been Duff's husband attacking Ashley directly, basically confirming for everyone that Hillary is part of the "toxic mom group" even as Ashley was denying that there were other famous moms in the group she was talking about.

Also, just a general pet peeve -- there is no "hearsay" here. It's not court. IRL, people can talk about their experiences and you can decide whether or not you trust their account or not, but there's no rule that you can't share things that other people may have said or done to you. Which, by the way, Tisdale didn't even do because she doesn't even say who any of the moms in her mom group were and she's not actually accusing anyone of anything.

I'm sorry, did you read the article? She's definitely accusing people of being petty, mean, toxic, exclusive, etc. If what she said wasn't bad at all then no one would be talking about it...

She didn't name names. She also doesn't just name call. She's not saying "ugh all the women in this group were petty, mean, toxic, and exclusive." Rather, she describes her personal experience of feeling excluded or left out, and many people concluded upon reading it "oh that is mean". She calls the group and its dynamics toxic (which, based on what we continue to find out, appears to be spot on) but says she thinks the women *in* the group are mostly good people caught in a negative dynamic. The meanest thing she says is that she thinks one of the women in the group might not be a good person, but she doesn't say who that woman is nor does she describe anything specifically this woman did that might provide hints as to who it is.

I read the piece when it came out and I didn't think "wow she's really calling these women out." My first thought was "yeah it is too bad when women get caught up in those dynamics -- I've been stuck in dynamics like that before and it sucks." I viewed it as a criticism of how women in general sometimes relate to each other, and not an attack on specific women at all.

Weird take, but ok. If she was fine with all the women, like you seem to claim, then why couldn't they have either ironed out their differences or left on a good note? Better yet, why couldn't they all have written a joint article about the ways in which groups of really nice women can somehow become toxic when all of them are so nice?

It doesn't sound like the other women had any interest in ironing out differences or ending on a good note. Her description of the dynamic is that she felt excluded from activities and sidelined in general, but that when she reached out to say she was feeling hurt, people said things like "oh we just assumed you were invited" or that they forgot.

I've been through this and that's part of the power play. They ignore you and exclude you, and if you say "hey it seems like people are upset with me but I don't know why, can we talk about it?" and everyone says "we have no idea what you're talking about, don't be so sensitive" and then it just continues. There is no closure, just a general feeling of rejection, and that is by design. They think no one can criticize them for their actions because they've gone out of their way to do the whole thing passively and under the cover of "oops I just just forgot to invite you."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just like when the pretty girl gets excluded by the other mean girls at the best lunch table in middle school, this group pulled the same on a former actress. Women can be the worst to other women.

I think they probably just didn’t like her.

This is what I'm thinking. Especially if they were an already established closer group of women. It's hard to break into groups like that and you pretty much have to be universally liked/have multiple strong relationships with women in the larger group for it to happen. I've been in the same friend group of 10 women for about a decade now. We all have sub groups for different reasons (I'd say I'm in 4 subgroups) and we all have friendships/groups outside of the main group, but for many of us, this is the core local group. I have a shorthand with these women, they know me, my husband, my kids and we have a significant history with one another. It's not that I'm not interested in other friends, I'm fine creating new relationships, but I wouldn't initiate trying to fold another friend into this particular group. I can't say people are clamouring to join us, I think we're pretty chill and not overly obvious about our clique in most cases. I don't use social media and for the women in the group who do, they're very selective about posting. For me, as a general rule I don't talk about what I do and who I do it with with outside friends unless it's in some way pertinent, but I find it rarely is. Many of my non-group friends probably think I sit at home a lot and that's fine by me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just like when the pretty girl gets excluded by the other mean girls at the best lunch table in middle school, this group pulled the same on a former actress. Women can be the worst to other women.

+1 That group is likely a bangable buffet of young milfs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just like when the pretty girl gets excluded by the other mean girls at the best lunch table in middle school, this group pulled the same on a former actress. Women can be the worst to other women.

I think they probably just didn’t like her.

This is what I'm thinking. Especially if they were an already established closer group of women. It's hard to break into groups like that and you pretty much have to be universally liked/have multiple strong relationships with women in the larger group for it to happen. I've been in the same friend group of 10 women for about a decade now. We all have sub groups for different reasons (I'd say I'm in 4 subgroups) and we all have friendships/groups outside of the main group, but for many of us, this is the core local group. I have a shorthand with these women, they know me, my husband, my kids and we have a significant history with one another. It's not that I'm not interested in other friends, I'm fine creating new relationships, but I wouldn't initiate trying to fold another friend into this particular group. I can't say people are clamouring to join us, I think we're pretty chill and not overly obvious about our clique in most cases. I don't use social media and for the women in the group who do, they're very selective about posting. For me, as a general rule I don't talk about what I do and who I do it with with outside friends unless it's in some way pertinent, but I find it rarely is. Many of my non-group friends probably think I sit at home a lot and that's fine by me.

If they didn't like her and didn't want to be friends with her, then they should not have done things like shown up to her daughter's birthday party or invited her to all the things in the first place. Sure, maybe they invite her to a few things but people don't click and it fizzles out. That happens and I'm sure wouldn't feel good to her, but at least it's honest and a natural process and then she goes and finds other friends.

What she describes is a group who were very friendly to her until suddenly they were not, and rather than discuss the issue with her like adults or at least own up to their change in feeling, decided to gaslight her by excluding her from things but then claiming later they just forgot to invite her.

Passive aggression is a terrible personality trait. Don't do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just like when the pretty girl gets excluded by the other mean girls at the best lunch table in middle school, this group pulled the same on a former actress. Women can be the worst to other women.

I think they probably just didn’t like her.

This is what I'm thinking. Especially if they were an already established closer group of women. It's hard to break into groups like that and you pretty much have to be universally liked/have multiple strong relationships with women in the larger group for it to happen. I've been in the same friend group of 10 women for about a decade now. We all have sub groups for different reasons (I'd say I'm in 4 subgroups) and we all have friendships/groups outside of the main group, but for many of us, this is the core local group. I have a shorthand with these women, they know me, my husband, my kids and we have a significant history with one another. It's not that I'm not interested in other friends, I'm fine creating new relationships, but I wouldn't initiate trying to fold another friend into this particular group. I can't say people are clamouring to join us, I think we're pretty chill and not overly obvious about our clique in most cases. I don't use social media and for the women in the group who do, they're very selective about posting. For me, as a general rule I don't talk about what I do and who I do it with with outside friends unless it's in some way pertinent, but I find it rarely is. Many of my non-group friends probably think I sit at home a lot and that's fine by me.

If they didn't like her and didn't want to be friends with her, then they should not have done things like shown up to her daughter's birthday party or invited her to all the things in the first place. Sure, maybe they invite her to a few things but people don't click and it fizzles out. That happens and I'm sure wouldn't feel good to her, but at least it's honest and a natural process and then she goes and finds other friends.

What she describes is a group who were very friendly to her until suddenly they were not, and rather than discuss the issue with her like adults or at least own up to their change in feeling, decided to gaslight her by excluding her from things but then claiming later they just forgot to invite her.

Passive aggression is a terrible personality trait. Don't do this.

+1. You seem the same sort of behavior in here with people saying she had no business airing this in public and not talking it out as if the former friends were going to admit to what they were doing or be honest with her. If they wanted to handle it that way they would have, but they didn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I first read about this on Reddit and people were saying the mom group was lead by Hilary Duff and also included Mandy Moore, and possibly/likely Meghan Trainor and Lea Michele. And some women who were likely not famous but were rich and well-connected, either from their husbands or from their own work as celeb stylists, influencers, etc. So a real group of A-listers …

It sounded like Ashley came late to the group and was a fringe friend/member or the queen bees Hilary and Mandy didn’t really care for her too much and wouldn’t let her into the “inner circle.” Tale as old as time! She was right to extract herself from the group when she did.

I wonder if Emily from the old Cupcakes and Cashmere blog is part of mom group? And is this the same group that sort of kicked Minka Kelly out because they started having kids and she didn't?

Confirmation: i see Ems, Christina, Raina, and a Striker sister in the alleged toxic mom gang per page six