ECNL moving to school year not calendar

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SOCAL soccer people not going down without a fight.

Good morning everyone!

After the email that I sent yesterday regarding the US Soccer proposed birth year changes I received quite a bit on feedback. Based on some of the feedback I decided to create a questionnaire that our club leadership can

complete regarding this issue. Directors of Coaching should be completing this questionnaire.

It is important that we get your collective answers, questions and comments so that I can have the necessary data to provide US Club Soccer prior to the US Soccer vote in November. Your voices should be heard and taken into

consideration. There should be full transparency on this discussion and those of you in the trenches and on the field should be included in discussions on important changes such as this. My aim is to make that happen and while

I'll probably make some enemies along the way, it's the right thing to do. SOCAL is the largest market and the deepest talent pool when it comes to youth soccer in this country. Your opinions matter!

So please take a few minutes to complete this questionnaire and please do so no later than Wednesday, October 16 at 5pm. I'll be sharing the information with US Club Soccer later this week.

CLICK HERE for the questionnaire

Thank you

Michelle

This is just a show. The writing is already on the wall. There are too many gains for ECNL to move to SY. They will not pause. 11/22 is not a "vote" actually. It is an announcement.

Why go through all effort to collect club feedback on if BY or SY makes the most sense for SOCAL league members if it's a "done deal".

US Club Soccer and SOCAL make a lot of $$$ doing nothing other than maintaining a registry of players. If you alienate your customers they're going to go somewhere else for the same service.

The problem is the big clubs affiliated with SOCAL have ECNL, ECRL, NPL teams which will they openly go against ECNL?but I agree SOCAL league has a lot of influence and many of the teams are not playing in the higher level leagues.

And you are forgetting that they have paying customers with real concerns

The only problem is yes people will be upset but some people will be happy so that will cancel itself out. If anything your entry level club family will like the idea of little sussie getting to play with some friends from school that she has not been able to play with. Regardless of when they are born.

When you start getting to the RL/ECNL level is where parents will be upset. But ultimately they will just have to deal with the change if its approved, as this isn’t the clubs fault it fact they have deniability that this was above their pay grade.

In the end kids will still want to play soccer and life will go on. Just like when they switch to birth year. Yes change sucks but ultimately we all will just have to deal with it.

Or change nothing keep everything as is with BY and there's no risk for club owners.

If your neck was on the line which option would you choose?

Starting to see why BY makes more sense then another SY experiment?

I agree, I’m for SY but if I was a DOC it would make me nervous to have to make completely new teams.

Why? Every single club will have to go through the same change. If you’ve been focused on player development rather than win at all costs you should be comfortable creating a team from your existing NL and RL teams. I think the only cause for extreme concern is moving GKers. Losing a great one on your team could really hit morale if the ‘new’ team faces a losing year.

I think you have this reversed, because you’re assuming win at all costs = all January babies.

Win at all cost approaches will have the easiest time with this change.

Develop the player approaches are going to really be stuck, and in some cases will not have full rosters because the development plans and timelines will all be jacked up overnight.

Complete disagree but maybe club specific. A team in our club has 100% relied on a single scorer. She’s amazing, but no other player takes a shot, they pass to her. I’m guessing this has affected other players development and confidence. Similar situation with the center D. If the team/coach has relied too heavily on stars, they will be very nervous about the change.

I can see why players would leave the club because of BY to SY changes.

Please explain to me how changing from BY to SY will bring in new players to the club.

Q4 players on lower teams or weaker clubs will make the move. If a player on on the younger age group gets dropped down and quits because of it that's on them. So the Q4 kids should continue to play on lower teams but the displaced kids shouldn't? You all make no sense. This will help in the younger ages, for the older ages the girls dropping out may shift but it's not going to cause significantly more to quit playing soccer.

Ok so you've identified that changing from BY to SY will make players quit.

How will changing from BY to SY translate to more players?

Expect the increased number of soccer players over the longer term be a reason for the switch from birth year to school year. Whether DCUM participants understand or need to be convinced is irrelevant.

Just because you think something will happen doesn't make it true.

Competitive players could care less about playing with their friends in school.

Competitive players and their parents (and DCUM folks) don't make the rules for youth soccer of course.

As stewards of youth soccer, ECNL telegraphed an increased numbers of kids playing soccer with the change to SY as a reason and asked for all to challenge their reasons for changing to SY. The only reason given was the short term being messy.

So expect it to be a reason for the change, if a change happens.

Arguing why you don't believe changing to SY will increase the number of kids playing soccer is futile. Heck, USSF listed relative age effects as a reason for the switch to birth year a few years ago and I don't anybody actually believed that.

So you're admitting that by changing from BY to SY youth clubs will lose money. This is something we both agree on.

I do not agree that aligning to SY will bring more players than what exists now.

ECNL's position is that going to school year will get more kids playing soccer. My position is that your reading comprehension is suspect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is going to get worse and worse the closer we get to Nov 22nd

Yep I'd imagine ECNL is regretting they stepped in this big stinking pile of poo.

The more people learn about BY and SY the more they realize it's better to just leave alone.

I do t think they are getting the response they thought they would. Everything is fine now.

College Soccer must really be applying pressure for them to change this.

U. S. Soccer does not want to change BY to SY. It is not happening. Don't hold your breath.

Why does U.S. Soccer have to have a mandate for youth leagues re birth year vs. school year? That hasn't been explained in this entire thread.

ECNL said federation has influence not authority here so some moot positions being floated around about the federations stance.

What they meant was that ECNL has multiple options to achieve SY. Even if US Soccer says no ECNL can implement SY in different ways.

You sure? ECNL said, "...in theory a lot of different people could make the decision to do what they want. The Federation has some influence on that but there is a you know real question of whether there is any authority tied to it."

US Soccer could cut off US Club Soccer and ECNL could be even further out in the cold than they are now. With NCAA moving to paying players this would be a huge problem in the near future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SOCAL soccer people not going down without a fight.

Good morning everyone!

After the email that I sent yesterday regarding the US Soccer proposed birth year changes I received quite a bit on feedback. Based on some of the feedback I decided to create a questionnaire that our club leadership can

complete regarding this issue. Directors of Coaching should be completing this questionnaire.

It is important that we get your collective answers, questions and comments so that I can have the necessary data to provide US Club Soccer prior to the US Soccer vote in November. Your voices should be heard and taken into

consideration. There should be full transparency on this discussion and those of you in the trenches and on the field should be included in discussions on important changes such as this. My aim is to make that happen and while

I'll probably make some enemies along the way, it's the right thing to do. SOCAL is the largest market and the deepest talent pool when it comes to youth soccer in this country. Your opinions matter!

So please take a few minutes to complete this questionnaire and please do so no later than Wednesday, October 16 at 5pm. I'll be sharing the information with US Club Soccer later this week.

CLICK HERE for the questionnaire

Thank you

Michelle

This is just a show. The writing is already on the wall. There are too many gains for ECNL to move to SY. They will not pause. 11/22 is not a "vote" actually. It is an announcement.

Why go through all effort to collect club feedback on if BY or SY makes the most sense for SOCAL league members if it's a "done deal".

US Club Soccer and SOCAL make a lot of $$$ doing nothing other than maintaining a registry of players. If you alienate your customers they're going to go somewhere else for the same service.

The problem is the big clubs affiliated with SOCAL have ECNL, ECRL, NPL teams which will they openly go against ECNL?but I agree SOCAL league has a lot of influence and many of the teams are not playing in the higher level leagues.

And you are forgetting that they have paying customers with real concerns

The only problem is yes people will be upset but some people will be happy so that will cancel itself out. If anything your entry level club family will like the idea of little sussie getting to play with some friends from school that she has not been able to play with. Regardless of when they are born.

When you start getting to the RL/ECNL level is where parents will be upset. But ultimately they will just have to deal with the change if its approved, as this isn’t the clubs fault it fact they have deniability that this was above their pay grade.

In the end kids will still want to play soccer and life will go on. Just like when they switch to birth year. Yes change sucks but ultimately we all will just have to deal with it.

Or change nothing keep everything as is with BY and there's no risk for club owners.

If your neck was on the line which option would you choose?

Starting to see why BY makes more sense then another SY experiment?

I agree, I’m for SY but if I was a DOC it would make me nervous to have to make completely new teams.

Why? Every single club will have to go through the same change. If you’ve been focused on player development rather than win at all costs you should be comfortable creating a team from your existing NL and RL teams. I think the only cause for extreme concern is moving GKers. Losing a great one on your team could really hit morale if the ‘new’ team faces a losing year.

I think you have this reversed, because you’re assuming win at all costs = all January babies.

Win at all cost approaches will have the easiest time with this change.

Develop the player approaches are going to really be stuck, and in some cases will not have full rosters because the development plans and timelines will all be jacked up overnight.

Complete disagree but maybe club specific. A team in our club has 100% relied on a single scorer. She’s amazing, but no other player takes a shot, they pass to her. I’m guessing this has affected other players development and confidence. Similar situation with the center D. If the team/coach has relied too heavily on stars, they will be very nervous about the change.

I can see why players would leave the club because of BY to SY changes.

Please explain to me how changing from BY to SY will bring in new players to the club.

Q4 players on lower teams or weaker clubs will make the move. If a player on on the younger age group gets dropped down and quits because of it that's on them. So the Q4 kids should continue to play on lower teams but the displaced kids shouldn't? You all make no sense. This will help in the younger ages, for the older ages the girls dropping out may shift but it's not going to cause significantly more to quit playing soccer.

Ok so you've identified that changing from BY to SY will make players quit.

How will changing from BY to SY translate to more players?

Expect the increased number of soccer players over the longer term be a reason for the switch from birth year to school year. Whether DCUM participants understand or need to be convinced is irrelevant.

Just because you think something will happen doesn't make it true.

Competitive players could care less about playing with their friends in school.

Competitive players and their parents (and DCUM folks) don't make the rules for youth soccer of course.

As stewards of youth soccer, ECNL telegraphed an increased numbers of kids playing soccer with the change to SY as a reason and asked for all to challenge their reasons for changing to SY. The only reason given was the short term being messy.

So expect it to be a reason for the change, if a change happens.

Arguing why you don't believe changing to SY will increase the number of kids playing soccer is futile. Heck, USSF listed relative age effects as a reason for the switch to birth year a few years ago and I don't anybody actually believed that.

So you're admitting that by changing from BY to SY youth clubs will lose money. This is something we both agree on.

I do not agree that aligning to SY will bring more players than what exists now.

ECNL's position is that going to school year will get more kids playing soccer. My position is that your reading comprehension is suspect.

It's a more subtle and hard to prove point, that they think more kids will keep playing soccer that might otherwise leave under the BY system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is going to get worse and worse the closer we get to Nov 22nd

Yep I'd imagine ECNL is regretting they stepped in this big stinking pile of poo.

The more people learn about BY and SY the more they realize it's better to just leave alone.

I do t think they are getting the response they thought they would. Everything is fine now.

College Soccer must really be applying pressure for them to change this.

U. S. Soccer does not want to change BY to SY. It is not happening. Don't hold your breath.

Why does U.S. Soccer have to have a mandate for youth leagues re birth year vs. school year? That hasn't been explained in this entire thread.

ECNL said federation has influence not authority here so some moot positions being floated around about the federations stance.

What they meant was that ECNL has multiple options to achieve SY. Even if US Soccer says no ECNL can implement SY in different ways.

You sure? ECNL said, "...in theory a lot of different people could make the decision to do what they want. The Federation has some influence on that but there is a you know real question of whether there is any authority tied to it."

US Soccer could cut off US Club Soccer and ECNL could be even further out in the cold than they are now. With NCAA moving to paying players this would be a huge problem in the near future.

Ok, so what again are the punishments that US Soccer can invoke? Start their own girls and boys leagues? Maybe call it DA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is going to get worse and worse the closer we get to Nov 22nd

Yep I'd imagine ECNL is regretting they stepped in this big stinking pile of poo.

The more people learn about BY and SY the more they realize it's better to just leave alone.

I do t think they are getting the response they thought they would. Everything is fine now.

College Soccer must really be applying pressure for them to change this.

U. S. Soccer does not want to change BY to SY. It is not happening. Don't hold your breath.

Why does U.S. Soccer have to have a mandate for youth leagues re birth year vs. school year? That hasn't been explained in this entire thread.

ECNL said federation has influence not authority here so some moot positions being floated around about the federations stance.

What they meant was that ECNL has multiple options to achieve SY. Even if US Soccer says no ECNL can implement SY in different ways.

You sure? ECNL said, "...in theory a lot of different people could make the decision to do what they want. The Federation has some influence on that but there is a you know real question of whether there is any authority tied to it."

US Soccer could cut off US Club Soccer and ECNL could be even further out in the cold than they are now. With NCAA moving to paying players this would be a huge problem in the near future.

Ok, so what again are the punishments that US Soccer can invoke? Start their own girls and boys leagues? Maybe call it DA?

Maybe call it NWSL Next

[Anonymous]

The reason SY doesn’t really help is because it puts not so strong teams/clubs (ECNL/GA) with not many trapped players at a disadvantage.

The only teams that will be super successful are clubs with 2 teams in ECNL and GA. Because they have the numbers to make this work.

It is not fair for a team in league play to consist of a 2011 team with 5 2010 trap players playing teams that may only have 1 2010 trap player in it.

Nothing about this seems fair and you will see that the top 5 programs in ECNL will win in every division and the top 4 programs in GA will win everything.

[Anonymous]

If your kid is in a league that goes against the sport governing federation, then you're in a fringe league that will be taken even less seriously than they are now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is going to get worse and worse the closer we get to Nov 22nd

Yep I'd imagine ECNL is regretting they stepped in this big stinking pile of poo.

The more people learn about BY and SY the more they realize it's better to just leave alone.

I do t think they are getting the response they thought they would. Everything is fine now.

College Soccer must really be applying pressure for them to change this.

U. S. Soccer does not want to change BY to SY. It is not happening. Don't hold your breath.

Why does U.S. Soccer have to have a mandate for youth leagues re birth year vs. school year? That hasn't been explained in this entire thread.

ECNL said federation has influence not authority here so some moot positions being floated around about the federations stance.

What they meant was that ECNL has multiple options to achieve SY. Even if US Soccer says no ECNL can implement SY in different ways.

You sure? ECNL said, "...in theory a lot of different people could make the decision to do what they want. The Federation has some influence on that but there is a you know real question of whether there is any authority tied to it."

The vote is just a formality at this point. All the leagues have been in discussions for more than a year. What you will see happen is US soccer will approve a change in the birth month mandate but will push it back to the governing bodies.

What that means is we will not have a 100% mandate like we did before. Some leagues like mls next will stay birth year and some leagues like ECNL go grad year and some leagues like us club and USYS then put a 2 year start time (Fall 26) for teams to be in compliance for league play.

This gives more time to clubs but in reality the change this time will be easier because no players have to be removed from the team so this will allow clubs to add players in quickly or slowly.

The only effect it will have for next year is for tournaments which you will just see some teams considered playing up as most teams will probably just start adding new players as soon as it’s announced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The reason SY doesn’t really help is because it puts not so strong teams/clubs (ECNL/GA) with not many trapped players at a disadvantage.

The only teams that will be super successful are clubs with 2 teams in ECNL and GA. Because they have the numbers to make this work.

It is not fair for a team in league play to consist of a 2011 team with 5 2010 trap players playing teams that may only have 1 2010 trap player in it.

Nothing about this seems fair and you will see that the top 5 programs in ECNL will win in every division and the top 4 programs in GA will win everything.

Yuh? They are still going to have tryouts and players can move clubs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason SY doesn’t really help is because it puts not so strong teams/clubs (ECNL/GA) with not many trapped players at a disadvantage.

The only teams that will be super successful are clubs with 2 teams in ECNL and GA. Because they have the numbers to make this work.

It is not fair for a team in league play to consist of a 2011 team with 5 2010 trap players playing teams that may only have 1 2010 trap player in it.

Nothing about this seems fair and you will see that the top 5 programs in ECNL will win in every division and the top 4 programs in GA will win everything.

Yuh? They are still going to have tryouts and players can move clubs.

There are many smaller clubs that already struggle to field teams. BY worked and still works. Not sure why this is even happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is in a league that goes against the sport governing federation, then you're in a fringe league that will be taken even less seriously than they are now.

Spot on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is in a league that goes against the sport governing federation, then you're in a fringe league that will be taken even less seriously than they are now.

Taken less serious by whom? Will that translate to fewer lucrative hat sales?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The reason SY doesn’t really help is because it puts not so strong teams/clubs (ECNL/GA) with not many trapped players at a disadvantage.

The only teams that will be super successful are clubs with 2 teams in ECNL and GA. Because they have the numbers to make this work.

It is not fair for a team in league play to consist of a 2011 team with 5 2010 trap players playing teams that may only have 1 2010 trap player in it.

Nothing about this seems fair and you will see that the top 5 programs in ECNL will win in every division and the top 4 programs in GA will win everything.

This only happens when the teams from different leagues play each other. Assuming one team is SY with players that are 6 months older and the other is BY.

The net of it is if ECNL switches to SY and GA stays BY you can kiss big cross league tournaments like Jefferson or Surf Cup goodbye because GA aligned clubs won't participate.

[Anonymous]

Point still stands. The huge huge clubs will be even more successful.

Go to ECNL website and look at the champions dating back to 2011. Same big clubs winning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is going to get worse and worse the closer we get to Nov 22nd

Yep I'd imagine ECNL is regretting they stepped in this big stinking pile of poo.

The more people learn about BY and SY the more they realize it's better to just leave alone.

I do t think they are getting the response they thought they would. Everything is fine now.

College Soccer must really be applying pressure for them to change this.

U. S. Soccer does not want to change BY to SY. It is not happening. Don't hold your breath.

Why does U.S. Soccer have to have a mandate for youth leagues re birth year vs. school year? That hasn't been explained in this entire thread.

ECNL said federation has influence not authority here so some moot positions being floated around about the federations stance.

What they meant was that ECNL has multiple options to achieve SY. Even if US Soccer says no ECNL can implement SY in different ways.

You sure? ECNL said, "...in theory a lot of different people could make the decision to do what they want. The Federation has some influence on that but there is a you know real question of whether there is any authority tied to it."

The vote is just a formality at this point. All the leagues have been in discussions for more than a year. What you will see happen is US soccer will approve a change in the birth month mandate but will push it back to the governing bodies.

What that means is we will not have a 100% mandate like we did before. Some leagues like mls next will stay birth year and some leagues like ECNL go grad year and some leagues like us club and USYS then put a 2 year start time (Fall 26) for teams to be in compliance for league play.

This gives more time to clubs but in reality the change this time will be easier because no players have to be removed from the team so this will allow clubs to add players in quickly or slowly.

The only effect it will have for next year is for tournaments which you will just see some teams considered playing up as most teams will probably just start adding new players as soon as it’s announced.

What makes you think US Soccer will push back to the youth leagues?