Walls admissions article in the Post

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

Similar experience (though my slightly less high-flying DC was in geometry not Algebra 2 and didn't get admitted to quite as many privates, though some). FWIW, I have heard rumors that Walls prefers to not take too many advanced math students--they see themselves as a "humanities" school. Whatever, DC reads voraciously and actually loves ELA and history far more than math...and if they had spent more than 3 minutes with her in the interview, they would have known this. But I wonder if they see the higher math tracks as some sort of flag and those kids have a harder time getting in.

Geometry was once a sticking point because Walls included some questions on the entrance exam but not every MS feeder offered Geometry and thus some candidates were at a disadvantage unless they learned it independently of school or the school offered it as an elective supplement. Not many MS even offer Algebra 2 so that's definitely beyond anything a Walls test would cover.

The mediocre students at above private schools start younger. By HS admission process they can get more selective. The mediocre students never leave.

The geometry on the entrance exam was from the 8th grade common core standards. If 8th grade teachers didn’t teach the standards that is not Walls’ fault. But this rumor that geometry was on the test just out of the blue is nonsense. The test was an 8th grade test. 8th grade includes several strand of math including probability, number sense and basic geometry.

You missed the point. It's not that it was "out of the blue" (weird that you read that but whatever). Geometry may be included in 8th grade curriculum but in DCPS schools without a substantial cohort it was often not taught as a practical matter. Highly motivated students in these schools could get exposure through other avenues (mind you this is pre- Kahn Academy) but it put them at a greater disadvantage than kids who were exposed through math curriculum at their MS. Geometry isn't a high bar but it was a bar that could ding some students on the test. Guess who got dinged most?

So Walls shouldn’t have written the 8th grade test using 8th grade standards? They should have just guessed what middle school teachers taught and chose not to teach that year? This seems to be really grasping at straws. You can have issues with admissions but this criticism seems like you just want to complain about everything.

Look at PARCC scores for MS when it was in place and when Walls test was in place. There are like 2 DCPS schools with reliably high 7th/8th grade math scores and a larger number of schools with no high scorers, mostly clustered in Wards 7 & 8.

One test for everyone clearly disadvantaged potential candidates from Wards 7 & 8. I think there should be a test and equity seats to address that, but one size fits all does not work. The current high stakes Zoom interview doesn't work either.

What kind of magnet school is it then if they have to admit students with low math scores? It just seems like any regular school.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

Similar experience (though my slightly less high-flying DC was in geometry not Algebra 2 and didn't get admitted to quite as many privates, though some). FWIW, I have heard rumors that Walls prefers to not take too many advanced math students--they see themselves as a "humanities" school. Whatever, DC reads voraciously and actually loves ELA and history far more than math...and if they had spent more than 3 minutes with her in the interview, they would have known this. But I wonder if they see the higher math tracks as some sort of flag and those kids have a harder time getting in.

Geometry was once a sticking point because Walls included some questions on the entrance exam but not every MS feeder offered Geometry and thus some candidates were at a disadvantage unless they learned it independently of school or the school offered it as an elective supplement. Not many MS even offer Algebra 2 so that's definitely beyond anything a Walls test would cover.

The mediocre students at above private schools start younger. By HS admission process they can get more selective. The mediocre students never leave.

The geometry on the entrance exam was from the 8th grade common core standards. If 8th grade teachers didn’t teach the standards that is not Walls’ fault. But this rumor that geometry was on the test just out of the blue is nonsense. The test was an 8th grade test. 8th grade includes several strand of math including probability, number sense and basic geometry.

You missed the point. It's not that it was "out of the blue" (weird that you read that but whatever). Geometry may be included in 8th grade curriculum but in DCPS schools without a substantial cohort it was often not taught as a practical matter. Highly motivated students in these schools could get exposure through other avenues (mind you this is pre- Kahn Academy) but it put them at a greater disadvantage than kids who were exposed through math curriculum at their MS. Geometry isn't a high bar but it was a bar that could ding some students on the test. Guess who got dinged most?

So Walls shouldn’t have written the 8th grade test using 8th grade standards? They should have just guessed what middle school teachers taught and chose not to teach that year? This seems to be really grasping at straws. You can have issues with admissions but this criticism seems like you just want to complain about everything.

Look at PARCC scores for MS when it was in place and when Walls test was in place. There are like 2 DCPS schools with reliably high 7th/8th grade math scores and a larger number of schools with no high scorers, mostly clustered in Wards 7 & 8.

One test for everyone clearly disadvantaged potential candidates from Wards 7 & 8. I think there should be a test and equity seats to address that, but one size fits all does not work. The current high stakes Zoom interview doesn't work either.

What kind of magnet school is it then if they have to admit students with low math scores? It just seems like any regular school.

This.

+1. This is ridiculous. They tested what constitutes the 8th grade curriculum in math.

If your school did not cover what was required in 8th grade, well that is the failure of the school. But ultimately it is the failure of DCPS because they don’t have G & T or tracking at the elementary and middle school levels for low income students.

Their answer is to always either lower the standards to make exceptions in the name of equity. Race to the bottom for all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A FOIA request may get some info. But I'm pretty sure the attorneys will get involved. Pretty naive to think that you can just submit a request involving a DCPS school and they'll just give it to you just because. If the desire to get things to be more transparent, starting with the DC Council and local media is probably more a sure bet. None of them like bad publicity. Can request FOIA in tandeem...

Pretty naive to assume that DCPS staff attorneys won't screw it up wildly and end up getting ripped a new one once it gets before a judge. That tends to be what happens whenever DC government lawyers make decisions that end up in court.

To my knowledge, DCPS has a general counsel that uses outside resources so there's that....different ballgame

Only if they are anticipating something being high profile beforehand. Whether or not a foia request pertaining to someone's kid's Walls application sets off the appropriate alarm bells is debatable.

I don't know whether anyone is suggesting a FOIA request for a specific kids' application. My suggestion would be for the Walls selection policy. The policy--i.e., the selection criteria/interview guidelines and training/weighting--those are what SWW needs to be transparent about and is what is in the public interest (and, therefore, should be subject to FOIA at with a fee waiver). And the beauty of this is, if DCPS lawyers up to fight it, bring it on. That in and of itself is a story. It would be one thing to defend keeping a specific kid's application private. It is quite another thing to suggest that the public does not have the right to know how the process and guidelines by which a public school selects its students.

All talk and no action?

When are you submitting your FOIA request?

🤨

It is not my fight to fight, as my youngest is graduating this year. But I have been on the other side of a FOIA request (as a government employee) and I know how powerful they can be. There are clearly folks on here--those whose kids were denied entry this year and kids who may apply in coming years who have an interest in a transparent process. I am advocating that they explore FOIA as a tool. It takes about 5 minutes to submit the request. My question for you is, why do you seem to get so defensive/reactive everytime FOIA comes up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child applied this year --Deal, 4.0 GPA, had a ten-minute interview with one teacher (no students) that she described as a really fun and interesting conversation. She prepared for the interview and took it seriously. She is waitlisted with a number in the 170s. Looking at the lottery data for this year, they offered 170 spots and put 211 kids on the waitlist. That means she was in the 340s out of a total of 381 students. No idea why!

I'm so sorry. Honestly, I would submit a FOIA request. I wish I had done it last year when the same thing happened to my DC. It is total a total BS process and they will continue to do it until they can't get away with it anymore.

The FOIA process is really simple but they will drag it out as long as they can (up to five weeks or something like that). Keep your request simple. Just ask for all records that contain guidance for interviewers on how they are supposed to rate candidates, all records that provides training for interviewers on how they are supposed to interview candidates, all records that provides the weighting for interviews vs GPA and how candidates are ranked in the event of a tie. Also ask for an example of the interview matrix or rubric that is used for each interview.

They will either have to provide you with these or it will be exposed that they have no guidelines for the process.

This^

+1
From another parent who was disgusted at the process last year and wishes we submitted a FOIA then...

Submit one now.

No thanks--kid happily ensconced at Wilson. Best friend miserable at Walls.

Sure, Jan.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM won’t like my post, but I am a teacher who does the interviews. I’m not defending two questions or three minutes or whatever, but I can tell you that after 10 years of being at the school, it is possible to see within ten minutes who is a good fit. Parent interview portion does not factor into the score except to help students who appear to have strong family support. However, with gpa inflation the past two years due to WS plus the ban on getting parcc scores plus random charter schools who have weird report cards, it is very difficult to assess candidates, honestly.

I would support an application ranking system with no interview, just lottery of qualified students. I hate interview days and would rather be teaching.

Thanks. What written records are available? What kind of information could we get with a FOIA request?

This was posted earlier. Basically:

Keep your request simple. Ask for all "records" that contain:
- the formal process by which Walls candidates were ranked
- all guidance for interviewers on how questions they were to ask and how they were to rate candidates
- all records that provides training for interviewers
- all records that provides the weighting for interviews vs GPA and how candidates are ranked in the event of a tie.
Also ask for an example of the interview matrix or rubric that is used for each interview.

There are some exceptions for what has to be disclosed but this is the type of information that has to be released because it's of public interest. If it exists, they will have to provide it. It is likely it doesn't exist and it will show it was capricious.

Thanks, but I asking the SWW teacher who is part of the process, not you.

That's not how publicly disclosable information works. This is why FOIA exists

Huh? You must be new to DCUM. This is an anonymous blog where people disclose information all the time.

Feel free to file your FOIA request and pay applicable fees to DC for searching, reviewing, and reproducing records.

Feel free to ignore the previous poster who, for some reason, is opposed to the public getting information on Walls selection process. The facts are:

1. There is no fee to file a FOIA request.
2. There is usually no fee for the first two hours of research or the first 100 pages of records...
3. If there is going to be a fee, you will be notified and you can narrow your search BUT you can request a waiver if the request is in the public interest ( (which this most definitely is).
"Under the FOIA, fee waivers are limited to situations in which a requester can show that the disclosure of the requested information is in the public interest because it is likely to contribute significantly to public understanding of the operations and activities of the government and is not primarily in the commercial interest of the requester."

Free free to ignore this poster who is citing to federal FOIA law, which applies only to federal agencies.

This is governed by § 2–532 of the DC Code. The relevant section states:

(b) A public body may establish and collect fees not to exceed the actual cost of searching for, reviewing, redacting, and making copies of records. Documents may be furnished without charge or at a reduced charge where a public body determines that waiver or reduction of the fee is in the public interest because furnishing the information can be considered as primarily benefiting the general public.

In other words, the DCPS will determine if your request is primarily benefitting the general public and, if so, will then determine whether the documents will be furnished free or at a reduced charge.

Clearly, the fact that Larla was denied a spot at Walls after attaining a 4.0 GPA at Deal and acing her interview is a manifest injustice. Solving the mystery of her denial will greatly benefit the general public.

NP: No need to be a jerk. Maybe there will be a printing fee, maybe not. Either way, it’s in everyone’s interest if what’s *supposed* to be a crown jewel of the system is not a piece of crap joke.

HAHAHA. Your sour grapes are showing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A FOIA request may get some info. But I'm pretty sure the attorneys will get involved. Pretty naive to think that you can just submit a request involving a DCPS school and they'll just give it to you just because. If the desire to get things to be more transparent, starting with the DC Council and local media is probably more a sure bet. None of them like bad publicity. Can request FOIA in tandeem...

Pretty naive to assume that DCPS staff attorneys won't screw it up wildly and end up getting ripped a new one once it gets before a judge. That tends to be what happens whenever DC government lawyers make decisions that end up in court.

To my knowledge, DCPS has a general counsel that uses outside resources so there's that....different ballgame

Only if they are anticipating something being high profile beforehand. Whether or not a foia request pertaining to someone's kid's Walls application sets off the appropriate alarm bells is debatable.

I don't know whether anyone is suggesting a FOIA request for a specific kids' application. My suggestion would be for the Walls selection policy. The policy--i.e., the selection criteria/interview guidelines and training/weighting--those are what SWW needs to be transparent about and is what is in the public interest (and, therefore, should be subject to FOIA at with a fee waiver). And the beauty of this is, if DCPS lawyers up to fight it, bring it on. That in and of itself is a story. It would be one thing to defend keeping a specific kid's application private. It is quite another thing to suggest that the public does not have the right to know how the process and guidelines by which a public school selects its students.

All talk and no action?

When are you submitting your FOIA request?

🤨

It is not my fight to fight, as my youngest is graduating this year. But I have been on the other side of a FOIA request (as a government employee) and I know how powerful they can be. There are clearly folks on here--those whose kids were denied entry this year and kids who may apply in coming years who have an interest in a transparent process. I am advocating that they explore FOIA as a tool. It takes about 5 minutes to submit the request. My question for you is, why do you seem to get so defensive/reactive everytime FOIA comes up?

Why do you think all these comments are by a single poster?

[Anonymous]

because it’s such a bizarre response?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

Similar experience (though my slightly less high-flying DC was in geometry not Algebra 2 and didn't get admitted to quite as many privates, though some). FWIW, I have heard rumors that Walls prefers to not take too many advanced math students--they see themselves as a "humanities" school. Whatever, DC reads voraciously and actually loves ELA and history far more than math...and if they had spent more than 3 minutes with her in the interview, they would have known this. But I wonder if they see the higher math tracks as some sort of flag and those kids have a harder time getting in.

Geometry was once a sticking point because Walls included some questions on the entrance exam but not every MS feeder offered Geometry and thus some candidates were at a disadvantage unless they learned it independently of school or the school offered it as an elective supplement. Not many MS even offer Algebra 2 so that's definitely beyond anything a Walls test would cover.

The mediocre students at above private schools start younger. By HS admission process they can get more selective. The mediocre students never leave.

The geometry on the entrance exam was from the 8th grade common core standards. If 8th grade teachers didn’t teach the standards that is not Walls’ fault. But this rumor that geometry was on the test just out of the blue is nonsense. The test was an 8th grade test. 8th grade includes several strand of math including probability, number sense and basic geometry.

You missed the point. It's not that it was "out of the blue" (weird that you read that but whatever). Geometry may be included in 8th grade curriculum but in DCPS schools without a substantial cohort it was often not taught as a practical matter. Highly motivated students in these schools could get exposure through other avenues (mind you this is pre- Kahn Academy) but it put them at a greater disadvantage than kids who were exposed through math curriculum at their MS. Geometry isn't a high bar but it was a bar that could ding some students on the test. Guess who got dinged most?

So Walls shouldn’t have written the 8th grade test using 8th grade standards? They should have just guessed what middle school teachers taught and chose not to teach that year? This seems to be really grasping at straws. You can have issues with admissions but this criticism seems like you just want to complain about everything.

Look at PARCC scores for MS when it was in place and when Walls test was in place. There are like 2 DCPS schools with reliably high 7th/8th grade math scores and a larger number of schools with no high scorers, mostly clustered in Wards 7 & 8.

One test for everyone clearly disadvantaged potential candidates from Wards 7 & 8. I think there should be a test and equity seats to address that, but one size fits all does not work. The current high stakes Zoom interview doesn't work either.

What kind of magnet school is it then if they have to admit students with low math scores? It just seems like any regular school.

Elite universities look at a range of metrics to ensure at least some effort at diversity. If a single test is the only barrier they have every right, or better yet duty, to dig deeper

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:because it’s such a bizarre response?

Not PP but it's bizarre to point out misinformation you are posting about FOIA? No one is against FOIA. This is a free country and people can FOIA all they want. However, they should do us with a correct understanding of the law and the implications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

Similar experience (though my slightly less high-flying DC was in geometry not Algebra 2 and didn't get admitted to quite as many privates, though some). FWIW, I have heard rumors that Walls prefers to not take too many advanced math students--they see themselves as a "humanities" school. Whatever, DC reads voraciously and actually loves ELA and history far more than math...and if they had spent more than 3 minutes with her in the interview, they would have known this. But I wonder if they see the higher math tracks as some sort of flag and those kids have a harder time getting in.

Geometry was once a sticking point because Walls included some questions on the entrance exam but not every MS feeder offered Geometry and thus some candidates were at a disadvantage unless they learned it independently of school or the school offered it as an elective supplement. Not many MS even offer Algebra 2 so that's definitely beyond anything a Walls test would cover.

The mediocre students at above private schools start younger. By HS admission process they can get more selective. The mediocre students never leave.

The geometry on the entrance exam was from the 8th grade common core standards. If 8th grade teachers didn’t teach the standards that is not Walls’ fault. But this rumor that geometry was on the test just out of the blue is nonsense. The test was an 8th grade test. 8th grade includes several strand of math including probability, number sense and basic geometry.

You missed the point. It's not that it was "out of the blue" (weird that you read that but whatever). Geometry may be included in 8th grade curriculum but in DCPS schools without a substantial cohort it was often not taught as a practical matter. Highly motivated students in these schools could get exposure through other avenues (mind you this is pre- Kahn Academy) but it put them at a greater disadvantage than kids who were exposed through math curriculum at their MS. Geometry isn't a high bar but it was a bar that could ding some students on the test. Guess who got dinged most?

So Walls shouldn’t have written the 8th grade test using 8th grade standards? They should have just guessed what middle school teachers taught and chose not to teach that year? This seems to be really grasping at straws. You can have issues with admissions but this criticism seems like you just want to complain about everything.

Look at PARCC scores for MS when it was in place and when Walls test was in place. There are like 2 DCPS schools with reliably high 7th/8th grade math scores and a larger number of schools with no high scorers, mostly clustered in Wards 7 & 8.

One test for everyone clearly disadvantaged potential candidates from Wards 7 & 8. I think there should be a test and equity seats to address that, but one size fits all does not work. The current high stakes Zoom interview doesn't work either.

What kind of magnet school is it then if they have to admit students with low math scores? It just seems like any regular school.

Elite universities look at a range of metrics to ensure at least some effort at diversity. If a single test is the only barrier they have every right, or better yet duty, to dig deeper

Look at the test scores at these schools. It hasn’t gone down. They have more qualified students than spots.

But I bet the scores of Walls will decrease.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

Similar experience (though my slightly less high-flying DC was in geometry not Algebra 2 and didn't get admitted to quite as many privates, though some). FWIW, I have heard rumors that Walls prefers to not take too many advanced math students--they see themselves as a "humanities" school. Whatever, DC reads voraciously and actually loves ELA and history far more than math...and if they had spent more than 3 minutes with her in the interview, they would have known this. But I wonder if they see the higher math tracks as some sort of flag and those kids have a harder time getting in.

Geometry was once a sticking point because Walls included some questions on the entrance exam but not every MS feeder offered Geometry and thus some candidates were at a disadvantage unless they learned it independently of school or the school offered it as an elective supplement. Not many MS even offer Algebra 2 so that's definitely beyond anything a Walls test would cover.

The mediocre students at above private schools start younger. By HS admission process they can get more selective. The mediocre students never leave.

The geometry on the entrance exam was from the 8th grade common core standards. If 8th grade teachers didn’t teach the standards that is not Walls’ fault. But this rumor that geometry was on the test just out of the blue is nonsense. The test was an 8th grade test. 8th grade includes several strand of math including probability, number sense and basic geometry.

You missed the point. It's not that it was "out of the blue" (weird that you read that but whatever). Geometry may be included in 8th grade curriculum but in DCPS schools without a substantial cohort it was often not taught as a practical matter. Highly motivated students in these schools could get exposure through other avenues (mind you this is pre- Kahn Academy) but it put them at a greater disadvantage than kids who were exposed through math curriculum at their MS. Geometry isn't a high bar but it was a bar that could ding some students on the test. Guess who got dinged most?

So Walls shouldn’t have written the 8th grade test using 8th grade standards? They should have just guessed what middle school teachers taught and chose not to teach that year? This seems to be really grasping at straws. You can have issues with admissions but this criticism seems like you just want to complain about everything.

Look at PARCC scores for MS when it was in place and when Walls test was in place. There are like 2 DCPS schools with reliably high 7th/8th grade math scores and a larger number of schools with no high scorers, mostly clustered in Wards 7 & 8.

One test for everyone clearly disadvantaged potential candidates from Wards 7 & 8. I think there should be a test and equity seats to address that, but one size fits all does not work. The current high stakes Zoom interview doesn't work either.

No. If you have shit test scores, you should not be in a magnet school. Address the issues that cause kids in Wards 7 & 8 to have low test scores. Pour money into that. But watering down admissions standards is not the answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS doesn’t want an entrance exam for Walls. The administration at the school is not strong and therefore does not push back on anything DCPS wants. So there will not be an entrance exam again. If you want one, start with pressuring DCPS. They ultimately control that decision.

Fine...then they should just use a GPA cutoff and a lottery. I am increasingly disturbed that a teacher just admitted they can determine "fit" based on this interview ESPECIALLY given that these have been video interviews during a pandemic. Which kids were dealing with (or were simply nervous about dealing with) unstable Wifi or glitchy cameras on old laptops during their interviews? Which kids are self conscious about the backgrounds that might appear during their videos? Would like to hear more about how Walls is thinking about equity while at the same time using these interviews to determine "fit" and "strong family support"...

Basically they are weeding out the kids they think might be "assholes" I know some straight A kids who are also arrogant and dull, there are so many better kids than that out there and I do think teachers can get a good sense in a short interview, and anyway it is the only chosie they have. Has anyone read "blink?

I’m surprised more people don’t see the wildly obvious issues with this. It’s 2022. Have these people not seen any of the data on implicit bias and the enormous amount published about how companies with strong DEI initiatives are benefitting from a focus more on job requirements and merit instead of “ cultural fit”? The data is clear - people who talk the most tend to get put in charge, regardless of merit. People who smile more are believed to be more trustworthy. The idea of a brief interview having so much weight is an invitation to discriminate against non-neurotypical people, introverts, girls, public school kids, poor kids, kids not yet comfortable talking to adult authority figures, homeless kids, English learners. The list goes on.

Who possibly thinks this is a good idea?

This, this, 100 times this.

Completely agree. This whole idea that people involved in the process will say out loud that a 2 minute interview is helpful because they can determine if someone is a good "fit" is insane. If someone in my place of work wrote those words on an interview review form it would immediately be flagged by the HR team and the employment legal team. We would have to paper back over that written feedback and then the interviewer would be coached and probably not permitted to interview until s/he had gone through DEI training.

There are no easy answers to these issues. But I am perplexed at people who object to a test because of bias somehow being OK with standardless "fit" assessments. "Not a good fit" is how women and diverse candidates were kept out of positions of power for centuries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

Similar experience (though my slightly less high-flying DC was in geometry not Algebra 2 and didn't get admitted to quite as many privates, though some). FWIW, I have heard rumors that Walls prefers to not take too many advanced math students--they see themselves as a "humanities" school. Whatever, DC reads voraciously and actually loves ELA and history far more than math...and if they had spent more than 3 minutes with her in the interview, they would have known this. But I wonder if they see the higher math tracks as some sort of flag and those kids have a harder time getting in.

Geometry was once a sticking point because Walls included some questions on the entrance exam but not every MS feeder offered Geometry and thus some candidates were at a disadvantage unless they learned it independently of school or the school offered it as an elective supplement. Not many MS even offer Algebra 2 so that's definitely beyond anything a Walls test would cover.

The mediocre students at above private schools start younger. By HS admission process they can get more selective. The mediocre students never leave.

The geometry on the entrance exam was from the 8th grade common core standards. If 8th grade teachers didn’t teach the standards that is not Walls’ fault. But this rumor that geometry was on the test just out of the blue is nonsense. The test was an 8th grade test. 8th grade includes several strand of math including probability, number sense and basic geometry.

You missed the point. It's not that it was "out of the blue" (weird that you read that but whatever). Geometry may be included in 8th grade curriculum but in DCPS schools without a substantial cohort it was often not taught as a practical matter. Highly motivated students in these schools could get exposure through other avenues (mind you this is pre- Kahn Academy) but it put them at a greater disadvantage than kids who were exposed through math curriculum at their MS. Geometry isn't a high bar but it was a bar that could ding some students on the test. Guess who got dinged most?

So Walls shouldn’t have written the 8th grade test using 8th grade standards? They should have just guessed what middle school teachers taught and chose not to teach that year? This seems to be really grasping at straws. You can have issues with admissions but this criticism seems like you just want to complain about everything.

Look at PARCC scores for MS when it was in place and when Walls test was in place. There are like 2 DCPS schools with reliably high 7th/8th grade math scores and a larger number of schools with no high scorers, mostly clustered in Wards 7 & 8.

One test for everyone clearly disadvantaged potential candidates from Wards 7 & 8. I think there should be a test and equity seats to address that, but one size fits all does not work. The current high stakes Zoom interview doesn't work either.

The problem isn't the test - the problem is that these candidates either don't have access to advanced math or don't have the skills. These are the things that need fixing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS doesn’t want an entrance exam for Walls. The administration at the school is not strong and therefore does not push back on anything DCPS wants. So there will not be an entrance exam again. If you want one, start with pressuring DCPS. They ultimately control that decision.

Fine...then they should just use a GPA cutoff and a lottery. I am increasingly disturbed that a teacher just admitted they can determine "fit" based on this interview ESPECIALLY given that these have been video interviews during a pandemic. Which kids were dealing with (or were simply nervous about dealing with) unstable Wifi or glitchy cameras on old laptops during their interviews? Which kids are self conscious about the backgrounds that might appear during their videos? Would like to hear more about how Walls is thinking about equity while at the same time using these interviews to determine "fit" and "strong family support"...

Basically they are weeding out the kids they think might be "assholes" I know some straight A kids who are also arrogant and dull, there are so many better kids than that out there and I do think teachers can get a good sense in a short interview, and anyway it is the only chosie they have. Has anyone read "blink?

I’m surprised more people don’t see the wildly obvious issues with this. It’s 2022. Have these people not seen any of the data on implicit bias and the enormous amount published about how companies with strong DEI initiatives are benefitting from a focus more on job requirements and merit instead of “ cultural fit”? The data is clear - people who talk the most tend to get put in charge, regardless of merit. People who smile more are believed to be more trustworthy. The idea of a brief interview having so much weight is an invitation to discriminate against non-neurotypical people, introverts, girls, public school kids, poor kids, kids not yet comfortable talking to adult authority figures, homeless kids, English learners. The list goes on.

Who possibly thinks this is a good idea?

This, this, 100 times this.

Completely agree. This whole idea that people involved in the process will say out loud that a 2 minute interview is helpful because they can determine if someone is a good "fit" is insane. If someone in my place of work wrote those words on an interview review form it would immediately be flagged by the HR team and the employment legal team. We would have to paper back over that written feedback and then the interviewer would be coached and probably not permitted to interview until s/he had gone through DEI training.

There are no easy answers to these issues. But I am perplexed at people who object to a test because of bias somehow being OK with standardless "fit" assessments. "Not a good fit" is how women and diverse candidates were kept out of positions of power for centuries.

Couldn't agree more.

[Anonymous]

I am one of the parents whose kid did not get admitted at School Without Walls this year and plan to submit a FOIA request in the coming weeks, as soon as I collect all the necessary information. Many other people in this forum raised excellent points and even suggested what to put in the request, and I will be happy to follow many of their recommendations.

I have been talking to other parents, I have spoken with some lawyers, with DC residents, with my local representatives, and have written letters to various school administrators. I am collecting information at this stage. There are many parents who have "surrendered" already. They say, yes you are right, but there is nothing you can do, send it to a private school, and move on. No, I will not move on. This is a fight worth fighting.

Submitting a FOIA is one of the many steps that I intend to pursue. The DC public school system, like many other bureaucracies, prefers not to address this issue, and they would be perfectly happy with nothing happening. Administrators keep being reappointed, the mayor runs every election uncontested, and cutting ribbons every now and then keeps everybody happy.

There many good things about the DC public school system, but the way they are trying to destroy one of their magnet schools is not one of them.

And remember that "interviews" are the way minorities have been discriminated against in this country (for housing, golf clubs, high-profile jobs) long before Walls decided to make video interviews the hallmark of their admission policy. It is time that this city ends these biased and ridiculous admission practices.

If you are planning to join the FOIA, or want to write supporting letters, please send an email to [e-mail] with any details you wish to share.