Walls admissions article in the Post

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCPS doesn’t want an entrance exam for Walls. The administration at the school is not strong and therefore does not push back on anything DCPS wants. So there will not be an entrance exam again. If you want one, start with pressuring DCPS. They ultimately control that decision.

The exam was not helpful if GPA are being considered, and had too much focus on math ( from what I hear) so glad it is gone to ease the administrative burden and hoop jumping on the school and families.

Also, I think rich upper class families can 'game' these tests, extra tutoring bla bla, when all kids at a public school get a GPA that they have worked for ( yes yes I know many of them have tutors for that too.) But I do think it does a small amount to equalize.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS doesn’t want an entrance exam for Walls. The administration at the school is not strong and therefore does not push back on anything DCPS wants. So there will not be an entrance exam again. If you want one, start with pressuring DCPS. They ultimately control that decision.

Fine...then they should just use a GPA cutoff and a lottery. I am increasingly disturbed that a teacher just admitted they can determine "fit" based on this interview ESPECIALLY given that these have been video interviews during a pandemic. Which kids were dealing with (or were simply nervous about dealing with) unstable Wifi or glitchy cameras on old laptops during their interviews? Which kids are self conscious about the backgrounds that might appear during their videos? Would like to hear more about how Walls is thinking about equity while at the same time using these interviews to determine "fit" and "strong family support"...

Basically they are weeding out the kids they think might be "assholes" I know some straight A kids who are also arrogant and dull, there are so many better kids than that out there and I do think teachers can get a good sense in a short interview, and anyway it is the only chosie they have. Has anyone read "blink?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

Let me guess, your kid is white? What a disgrace, PP.

I hope a parent like you sues DCPS over shambolic Walls admissions one of these years. You'd obviously have a decent case.

But the kid got waitlisted!!!!! So a good fit, on the long list of other kids who are a good fit!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that Walls admissions are a mess now because the test was scrapped. The process used to work sort of because the test was a first screening tool that eliminated many applicants who were not a good fit for Walls. The interview process was never great but it worked ok to sort through the remaining applicants. Also, applicants were sorted on how well they did on the test.

DCPS as usual did not think things through. They scrapped the test in the name of equity but gave no further thought to how applicants will be chosen. This has created a mess with interviewers implicit bias reigning supreme. I’m guessing Walls is short staffed and doesn’t have the time or manpower to sort this out within the limitations imposed on them by DCPS

And by "good fit" this once only applied to academic test taking acumen. It's not everything but it's something. Now who knows what "good fit" means?

Being able to take a test well matters for, you know, school.

They should bring back the test.

PP here. Yes I agree test should be back, but taking a high stakes test well isn't the only thing that matters for school and it's not the end all be all of academic potential. The current alternatives here are far inferior. It's not like colleges with optional SATs where instead there's a rigorous process for screening applicants. It's test or ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

THe GPS serves as a test. Get it? Do well at school get a good GPA. No need to do a test to show you are good at school unless there is a wide spread allegation that GPAs are a scam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

Similar experience (though my slightly less high-flying DC was in geometry not Algebra 2 and didn't get admitted to quite as many privates, though some). FWIW, I have heard rumors that Walls prefers to not take too many advanced math students--they see themselves as a "humanities" school. Whatever, DC reads voraciously and actually loves ELA and history far more than math...and if they had spent more than 3 minutes with her in the interview, they would have known this. But I wonder if they see the higher math tracks as some sort of flag and those kids have a harder time getting in.

Geometry was once a sticking point because Walls included some questions on the entrance exam but not every MS feeder offered Geometry and thus some candidates were at a disadvantage unless they learned it independently of school or the school offered it as an elective supplement. Not many MS even offer Algebra 2 so that's definitely beyond anything a Walls test would cover.

The mediocre students at above private schools start younger. By HS admission process they can get more selective. The mediocre students never leave.

The geometry on the entrance exam was from the 8th grade common core standards. If 8th grade teachers didn’t teach the standards that is not Walls’ fault. But this rumor that geometry was on the test just out of the blue is nonsense. The test was an 8th grade test. 8th grade includes several strand of math including probability, number sense and basic geometry.

You missed the point. It's not that it was "out of the blue" (weird that you read that but whatever). Geometry may be included in 8th grade curriculum but in DCPS schools without a substantial cohort it was often not taught as a practical matter. Highly motivated students in these schools could get exposure through other avenues (mind you this is pre- Kahn Academy) but it put them at a greater disadvantage than kids who were exposed through math curriculum at their MS. Geometry isn't a high bar but it was a bar that could ding some students on the test. Guess who got dinged most?

So Walls shouldn’t have written the 8th grade test using 8th grade standards? They should have just guessed what middle school teachers taught and chose not to teach that year? This seems to be really grasping at straws. You can have issues with admissions but this criticism seems like you just want to complain about everything.

Look at PARCC scores for MS when it was in place and when Walls test was in place. There are like 2 DCPS schools with reliably high 7th/8th grade math scores and a larger number of schools with no high scorers, mostly clustered in Wards 7 & 8.

One test for everyone clearly disadvantaged potential candidates from Wards 7 & 8. I think there should be a test and equity seats to address that, but one size fits all does not work. The current high stakes Zoom interview doesn't work either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS doesn’t want an entrance exam for Walls. The administration at the school is not strong and therefore does not push back on anything DCPS wants. So there will not be an entrance exam again. If you want one, start with pressuring DCPS. They ultimately control that decision.

Fine...then they should just use a GPA cutoff and a lottery. I am increasingly disturbed that a teacher just admitted they can determine "fit" based on this interview ESPECIALLY given that these have been video interviews during a pandemic. Which kids were dealing with (or were simply nervous about dealing with) unstable Wifi or glitchy cameras on old laptops during their interviews? Which kids are self conscious about the backgrounds that might appear during their videos? Would like to hear more about how Walls is thinking about equity while at the same time using these interviews to determine "fit" and "strong family support"...

Basically they are weeding out the kids they think might be "assholes" I know some straight A kids who are also arrogant and dull, there are so many better kids than that out there and I do think teachers can get a good sense in a short interview, and anyway it is the only chosie they have. Has anyone read "blink?

Walls matched 10 seats in 10th grade lottery for next year so they either got some of those 9th grade selections wrong or some students were not satisfied with 9th grade this year and will enroll elsewhere. That's a high number for lottery matches compared to historical numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

Similar experience (though my slightly less high-flying DC was in geometry not Algebra 2 and didn't get admitted to quite as many privates, though some). FWIW, I have heard rumors that Walls prefers to not take too many advanced math students--they see themselves as a "humanities" school. Whatever, DC reads voraciously and actually loves ELA and history far more than math...and if they had spent more than 3 minutes with her in the interview, they would have known this. But I wonder if they see the higher math tracks as some sort of flag and those kids have a harder time getting in.

Geometry was once a sticking point because Walls included some questions on the entrance exam but not every MS feeder offered Geometry and thus some candidates were at a disadvantage unless they learned it independently of school or the school offered it as an elective supplement. Not many MS even offer Algebra 2 so that's definitely beyond anything a Walls test would cover.

The mediocre students at above private schools start younger. By HS admission process they can get more selective. The mediocre students never leave.

The geometry on the entrance exam was from the 8th grade common core standards. If 8th grade teachers didn’t teach the standards that is not Walls’ fault. But this rumor that geometry was on the test just out of the blue is nonsense. The test was an 8th grade test. 8th grade includes several strand of math including probability, number sense and basic geometry.

You missed the point. It's not that it was "out of the blue" (weird that you read that but whatever). Geometry may be included in 8th grade curriculum but in DCPS schools without a substantial cohort it was often not taught as a practical matter. Highly motivated students in these schools could get exposure through other avenues (mind you this is pre- Kahn Academy) but it put them at a greater disadvantage than kids who were exposed through math curriculum at their MS. Geometry isn't a high bar but it was a bar that could ding some students on the test. Guess who got dinged most?

So Walls shouldn’t have written the 8th grade test using 8th grade standards? They should have just guessed what middle school teachers taught and chose not to teach that year? This seems to be really grasping at straws. You can have issues with admissions but this criticism seems like you just want to complain about everything.

Look at PARCC scores for MS when it was in place and when Walls test was in place. There are like 2 DCPS schools with reliably high 7th/8th grade math scores and a larger number of schools with no high scorers, mostly clustered in Wards 7 & 8.

One test for everyone clearly disadvantaged potential candidates from Wards 7 & 8. I think there should be a test and equity seats to address that, but one size fits all does not work. The current high stakes Zoom interview doesn't work either.

What kind of magnet school is it then if they have to admit students with low math scores? It just seems like any regular school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS doesn’t want an entrance exam for Walls. The administration at the school is not strong and therefore does not push back on anything DCPS wants. So there will not be an entrance exam again. If you want one, start with pressuring DCPS. They ultimately control that decision.

The exam was not helpful if GPA are being considered, and had too much focus on math ( from what I hear) so glad it is gone to ease the administrative burden and hoop jumping on the school and families.

Also, I think rich upper class families can 'game' these tests, extra tutoring bla bla, when all kids at a public school get a GPA that they have worked for ( yes yes I know many of them have tutors for that too.) But I do think it does a small amount to equalize.

You lost me at all the kids in public school work hard for their GPA. Have you seen DCPS grading scale and policy? It’s a total joke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS doesn’t want an entrance exam for Walls. The administration at the school is not strong and therefore does not push back on anything DCPS wants. So there will not be an entrance exam again. If you want one, start with pressuring DCPS. They ultimately control that decision.

The exam was not helpful if GPA are being considered, and had too much focus on math ( from what I hear) so glad it is gone to ease the administrative burden and hoop jumping on the school and families.

Also, I think rich upper class families can 'game' these tests, extra tutoring bla bla, when all kids at a public school get a GPA that they have worked for ( yes yes I know many of them have tutors for that too.) But I do think it does a small amount to equalize.

You lost me at all the kids in public school work hard for their GPA. Have you seen DCPS grading scale and policy? It’s a total joke.

Seriously. I've had three kids go through Deal. they've never received a quarter grade lower than an A. basically you do the work, you get an A. No thought involved. The standard is incredibly low.

[Anonymous]

Why are GPAs superior to standardized tests? What about the potential demonstrated by acing such a test?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS doesn’t want an entrance exam for Walls. The administration at the school is not strong and therefore does not push back on anything DCPS wants. So there will not be an entrance exam again. If you want one, start with pressuring DCPS. They ultimately control that decision.

Fine...then they should just use a GPA cutoff and a lottery. I am increasingly disturbed that a teacher just admitted they can determine "fit" based on this interview ESPECIALLY given that these have been video interviews during a pandemic. Which kids were dealing with (or were simply nervous about dealing with) unstable Wifi or glitchy cameras on old laptops during their interviews? Which kids are self conscious about the backgrounds that might appear during their videos? Would like to hear more about how Walls is thinking about equity while at the same time using these interviews to determine "fit" and "strong family support"...

Basically they are weeding out the kids they think might be "assholes" I know some straight A kids who are also arrogant and dull, there are so many better kids than that out there and I do think teachers can get a good sense in a short interview, and anyway it is the only chosie they have. Has anyone read "blink?

I’m surprised more people don’t see the wildly obvious issues with this. It’s 2022. Have these people not seen any of the data on implicit bias and the enormous amount published about how companies with strong DEI initiatives are benefitting from a focus more on job requirements and merit instead of “ cultural fit”? The data is clear - people who talk the most tend to get put in charge, regardless of merit. People who smile more are believed to be more trustworthy. The idea of a brief interview having so much weight is an invitation to discriminate against non-neurotypical people, introverts, girls, public school kids, poor kids, kids not yet comfortable talking to adult authority figures, homeless kids, English learners. The list goes on.

Who possibly thinks this is a good idea?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are GPAs superior to standardized tests? What about the potential demonstrated by acing such a test?

This. GPA are subject to lots of grade inflations, easy A, and low standards. Standardized tests that test basic knowledge you should already possess shouldn’t be that hard. What it does is reveal the knowledge gap of weak vs more rigorous curriculum.

BTW, MIT is reinstating SAT scores. Good article below.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/04/mit-admissions-reinstates-sat-act-tests/629455/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS doesn’t want an entrance exam for Walls. The administration at the school is not strong and therefore does not push back on anything DCPS wants. So there will not be an entrance exam again. If you want one, start with pressuring DCPS. They ultimately control that decision.

Fine...then they should just use a GPA cutoff and a lottery. I am increasingly disturbed that a teacher just admitted they can determine "fit" based on this interview ESPECIALLY given that these have been video interviews during a pandemic. Which kids were dealing with (or were simply nervous about dealing with) unstable Wifi or glitchy cameras on old laptops during their interviews? Which kids are self conscious about the backgrounds that might appear during their videos? Would like to hear more about how Walls is thinking about equity while at the same time using these interviews to determine "fit" and "strong family support"...

Basically they are weeding out the kids they think might be "assholes" I know some straight A kids who are also arrogant and dull, there are so many better kids than that out there and I do think teachers can get a good sense in a short interview, and anyway it is the only chosie they have. Has anyone read "blink?

I’m surprised more people don’t see the wildly obvious issues with this. It’s 2022. Have these people not seen any of the data on implicit bias and the enormous amount published about how companies with strong DEI initiatives are benefitting from a focus more on job requirements and merit instead of “ cultural fit”? The data is clear - people who talk the most tend to get put in charge, regardless of merit. People who smile more are believed to be more trustworthy. The idea of a brief interview having so much weight is an invitation to discriminate against non-neurotypical people, introverts, girls, public school kids, poor kids, kids not yet comfortable talking to adult authority figures, homeless kids, English learners. The list goes on.

Who possibly thinks this is a good idea?

This, this, 100 times this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A FOIA request may get some info. But I'm pretty sure the attorneys will get involved. Pretty naive to think that you can just submit a request involving a DCPS school and they'll just give it to you just because. If the desire to get things to be more transparent, starting with the DC Council and local media is probably more a sure bet. None of them like bad publicity. Can request FOIA in tandeem...

Pretty naive to assume that DCPS staff attorneys won't screw it up wildly and end up getting ripped a new one once it gets before a judge. That tends to be what happens whenever DC government lawyers make decisions that end up in court.

To my knowledge, DCPS has a general counsel that uses outside resources so there's that....different ballgame

Only if they are anticipating something being high profile beforehand. Whether or not a foia request pertaining to someone's kid's Walls application sets off the appropriate alarm bells is debatable.

I don't know whether anyone is suggesting a FOIA request for a specific kids' application. My suggestion would be for the Walls selection policy. The policy--i.e., the selection criteria/interview guidelines and training/weighting--those are what SWW needs to be transparent about and is what is in the public interest (and, therefore, should be subject to FOIA at with a fee waiver). And the beauty of this is, if DCPS lawyers up to fight it, bring it on. That in and of itself is a story. It would be one thing to defend keeping a specific kid's application private. It is quite another thing to suggest that the public does not have the right to know how the process and guidelines by which a public school selects its students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A FOIA request may get some info. But I'm pretty sure the attorneys will get involved. Pretty naive to think that you can just submit a request involving a DCPS school and they'll just give it to you just because. If the desire to get things to be more transparent, starting with the DC Council and local media is probably more a sure bet. None of them like bad publicity. Can request FOIA in tandeem...

Pretty naive to assume that DCPS staff attorneys won't screw it up wildly and end up getting ripped a new one once it gets before a judge. That tends to be what happens whenever DC government lawyers make decisions that end up in court.

To my knowledge, DCPS has a general counsel that uses outside resources so there's that....different ballgame

Only if they are anticipating something being high profile beforehand. Whether or not a foia request pertaining to someone's kid's Walls application sets off the appropriate alarm bells is debatable.

I don't know whether anyone is suggesting a FOIA request for a specific kids' application. My suggestion would be for the Walls selection policy. The policy--i.e., the selection criteria/interview guidelines and training/weighting--those are what SWW needs to be transparent about and is what is in the public interest (and, therefore, should be subject to FOIA at with a fee waiver). And the beauty of this is, if DCPS lawyers up to fight it, bring it on. That in and of itself is a story. It would be one thing to defend keeping a specific kid's application private. It is quite another thing to suggest that the public does not have the right to know how the process and guidelines by which a public school selects its students.

All talk and no action?

When are you submitting your FOIA request?

🤨