Maryland Recovery Plan for Education has been posted

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sooner or later the majority of population will be exposed, most probably before vaccine. As long as people are not dying because of overwhelmed hospitals like in Italy, there is little to gain, but a lot to lose by shutting down everything, schools included.

This. Moreover I'm sure better treatment alternatives will be there by fall.

I think that's basically inevitable, just because there will be much more knowledge of the disease, and experience with treatments, by fall.

Certainly, we will be better at treating this in the fall. But the fall also brings cold & flu season and increases all cause mortality. The ICUs start to fill up with respiratory diseases unrelated to the current pandemic. The 1918 flu pandemic had a first wave in the spring but then the big deadly wave in the following fall/winter. It's not just the primary infectious disease but also the secondary infections (pneumonia) that will land people in the hospital.

I wish schools would try to open early. Get the kids in 'classrooms' in outdoor tents and pavilions in parks and stadiums in July. By the time we get to November, we will nearly certainly be shut down again. The second wave is likely to be much worse than the first. Yea yea, start to open up now, but let's please prepare for the very predictable second wave.

I hope you're kidding with this. Are you signing up to teach and/or learn outside in the July heat? I would love to know the details of this plan. How would you handle bathroom needs/storms/kids & teachers with allergies related to being outside/kids & teachers allergic to bees/where materials would be stored/transportation/kids & teachers unable to stay outside in the heat due to health issues/food service? I could go on.

As a teacher who works for a year round program, I can speak to this. We are paid a ten month salary. If you choose to work the summer you get paid an additional 18% of your yearly salary on top of your regular summer checks. Obviously, this is tremendously expensive for the district.
The only reason summer is bearable is because you go on many field trips, there’s only one official classroom observation, there is no testing, etc. All our classrooms are air conditioned. The pay is also great. You’re basically suggesting that teachers work with no extra pay, no air conditioning, no field trips, high anxiety, and worse. I agree that the bathroom would be a huge issue. When the weather is bad we just do what? Get soaked? I’m sorry but you can hire a sitter for the summer and ask them to do workbooks with your kid. I did not sign up for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
As a teacher who works for a year round program, I can speak to this. We are paid a ten month salary. If you choose to work the summer you get paid an additional 18% of your yearly salary on top of your regular summer checks. Obviously, this is tremendously expensive for the district.
The only reason summer is bearable is because you go on many field trips, there’s only one official classroom observation, there is no testing, etc. All our classrooms are air conditioned. The pay is also great. You’re basically suggesting that teachers work with no extra pay, no air conditioning, no field trips, high anxiety, and worse. I agree that the bathroom would be a huge issue. When the weather is bad we just do what? Get soaked? I’m sorry but you can hire a sitter for the summer and ask them to do workbooks with your kid. I did not sign up for that.

Denmark is currently holding their school classes outdoors, or so I read. To be sure, Denmark in May is not Maryland in July. I expect it rains in Denmark, though, and I'm certain that kids and teachers in Denmark need to use bathrooms during the school day. In other words, some of these are problems that not only can be solved, but actually have been solved, somehow, by people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As a teacher who works for a year round program, I can speak to this. We are paid a ten month salary. If you choose to work the summer you get paid an additional 18% of your yearly salary on top of your regular summer checks. Obviously, this is tremendously expensive for the district.
The only reason summer is bearable is because you go on many field trips, there’s only one official classroom observation, there is no testing, etc. All our classrooms are air conditioned. The pay is also great. You’re basically suggesting that teachers work with no extra pay, no air conditioning, no field trips, high anxiety, and worse. I agree that the bathroom would be a huge issue. When the weather is bad we just do what? Get soaked? I’m sorry but you can hire a sitter for the summer and ask them to do workbooks with your kid. I did not sign up for that.

Denmark is currently holding their school classes outdoors, or so I read. To be sure, Denmark in May is not Maryland in July. I expect it rains in Denmark, though, and I'm certain that kids and teachers in Denmark need to use bathrooms during the school day. In other words, some of these are problems that not only can be solved, but actually have been solved, somehow, by people.

Denmark's approach, sometimes called "forest schools" is about learning through play. One purpose is to build confidence in children by allowing them to explore on their own. At times, the class may gather to discuss something a student has discovered. Forest schools are not about having students sit at desks or tables while outside in order to learn in a traditional manner while outside. It is an entirely different way to learn. It is student directed. In some locations it occurs throughout the school year so that children may observe seasonal changes to the environment. It may occur once a week, or so, broken up throughout the school year. I think it would be an interesting, stress reducing, relationship building approach to education -- but it does not sound like an everyday, all day, year round approach.

If we are to be successful using educational strategies adopting strategies from other countries, we need to fully understand their approaches and adopt them correctly. Taking a half in approach does not work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As a teacher who works for a year round program, I can speak to this. We are paid a ten month salary. If you choose to work the summer you get paid an additional 18% of your yearly salary on top of your regular summer checks. Obviously, this is tremendously expensive for the district.
The only reason summer is bearable is because you go on many field trips, there’s only one official classroom observation, there is no testing, etc. All our classrooms are air conditioned. The pay is also great. You’re basically suggesting that teachers work with no extra pay, no air conditioning, no field trips, high anxiety, and worse. I agree that the bathroom would be a huge issue. When the weather is bad we just do what? Get soaked? I’m sorry but you can hire a sitter for the summer and ask them to do workbooks with your kid. I did not sign up for that.

Denmark is currently holding their school classes outdoors, or so I read. To be sure, Denmark in May is not Maryland in July. I expect it rains in Denmark, though, and I'm certain that kids and teachers in Denmark need to use bathrooms during the school day. In other words, some of these are problems that not only can be solved, but actually have been solved, somehow, by people.

Denmark's approach, sometimes called "forest schools" is about learning through play. One purpose is to build confidence in children by allowing them to explore on their own. At times, the class may gather to discuss something a student has discovered. Forest schools are not about having students sit at desks or tables while outside in order to learn in a traditional manner while outside. It is an entirely different way to learn. It is student directed. In some locations it occurs throughout the school year so that children may observe seasonal changes to the environment. It may occur once a week, or so, broken up throughout the school year. I think it would be an interesting, stress reducing, relationship building approach to education -- but it does not sound like an everyday, all day, year round approach.

If we are to be successful using educational strategies adopting strategies from other countries, we need to fully understand their approaches and adopt them correctly. Taking a half in approach does not work.

No, that's not what I'm talking about. I am talking about holding regular classes outside, as a response to covid-19. See this, for example: https://www.today.com/video/could-the-way-schools-are-reopening-in-denmark-be-a-model-for-the-us-82511429694

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As a teacher who works for a year round program, I can speak to this. We are paid a ten month salary. If you choose to work the summer you get paid an additional 18% of your yearly salary on top of your regular summer checks. Obviously, this is tremendously expensive for the district.
The only reason summer is bearable is because you go on many field trips, there’s only one official classroom observation, there is no testing, etc. All our classrooms are air conditioned. The pay is also great. You’re basically suggesting that teachers work with no extra pay, no air conditioning, no field trips, high anxiety, and worse. I agree that the bathroom would be a huge issue. When the weather is bad we just do what? Get soaked? I’m sorry but you can hire a sitter for the summer and ask them to do workbooks with your kid. I did not sign up for that.

Denmark is currently holding their school classes outdoors, or so I read. To be sure, Denmark in May is not Maryland in July. I expect it rains in Denmark, though, and I'm certain that kids and teachers in Denmark need to use bathrooms during the school day. In other words, some of these are problems that not only can be solved, but actually have been solved, somehow, by people.

That doesn’t change the fact that you want teachers to accept that the material nature of their job and the number of work days for a previously negotiated rate of pay. I’m not working without being compensated.
If you do any research you’ll see that they aren’t teaching in tents. They are “holding as much of their classes outdoors as possible” which seems to primarily mean music and other classes that don’t require materials. The kids are sitting in the grass. It’s also a totally different culture. You know I’m going to get angry calls, “Johnny didn’t make it to the bathroom on time. The next time this happens I’m going to call the superintendent! This is child abuse” or “Elizabeth has a sunburn! I told you to apply sunblock every hour. You should be fired.” American parents are so high strung. You want us providing some kind of magical rigorous instruction in a post apocalyptic setting. You’re welcome to open up some freewheeling nature camp and watch other people’s kids all summer. It’s not happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As a teacher who works for a year round program, I can speak to this. We are paid a ten month salary. If you choose to work the summer you get paid an additional 18% of your yearly salary on top of your regular summer checks. Obviously, this is tremendously expensive for the district.
The only reason summer is bearable is because you go on many field trips, there’s only one official classroom observation, there is no testing, etc. All our classrooms are air conditioned. The pay is also great. You’re basically suggesting that teachers work with no extra pay, no air conditioning, no field trips, high anxiety, and worse. I agree that the bathroom would be a huge issue. When the weather is bad we just do what? Get soaked? I’m sorry but you can hire a sitter for the summer and ask them to do workbooks with your kid. I did not sign up for that.

Denmark is currently holding their school classes outdoors, or so I read. To be sure, Denmark in May is not Maryland in July. I expect it rains in Denmark, though, and I'm certain that kids and teachers in Denmark need to use bathrooms during the school day. In other words, some of these are problems that not only can be solved, but actually have been solved, somehow, by people.

That doesn’t change the fact that you want teachers to accept that the material nature of their job and the number of work days for a previously negotiated rate of pay. I’m not working without being compensated.
If you do any research you’ll see that they aren’t teaching in tents. They are “holding as much of their classes outdoors as possible” which seems to primarily mean music and other classes that don’t require materials. The kids are sitting in the grass. It’s also a totally different culture. You know I’m going to get angry calls, “Johnny didn’t make it to the bathroom on time. The next time this happens I’m going to call the superintendent! This is child abuse” or “Elizabeth has a sunburn! I told you to apply sunblock every hour. You should be fired.” American parents are so high strung. You want us providing some kind of magical rigorous instruction in a post apocalyptic setting. You’re welcome to open up some freewheeling nature camp and watch other people’s kids all summer. It’s not happening.

Issue 1: paying people for work
Separate issue 2: having school outside as much as possible

I'm all in favor of paying people for work. I'm also really, really, really, really, really tired of hearing that it's impossible to do things that are actually being done in real life by real people. American exceptionalism now seems to mean "Americans can't do what everyone else can do".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As a teacher who works for a year round program, I can speak to this. We are paid a ten month salary. If you choose to work the summer you get paid an additional 18% of your yearly salary on top of your regular summer checks. Obviously, this is tremendously expensive for the district.
The only reason summer is bearable is because you go on many field trips, there’s only one official classroom observation, there is no testing, etc. All our classrooms are air conditioned. The pay is also great. You’re basically suggesting that teachers work with no extra pay, no air conditioning, no field trips, high anxiety, and worse. I agree that the bathroom would be a huge issue. When the weather is bad we just do what? Get soaked? I’m sorry but you can hire a sitter for the summer and ask them to do workbooks with your kid. I did not sign up for that.

Denmark is currently holding their school classes outdoors, or so I read. To be sure, Denmark in May is not Maryland in July. I expect it rains in Denmark, though, and I'm certain that kids and teachers in Denmark need to use bathrooms during the school day. In other words, some of these are problems that not only can be solved, but actually have been solved, somehow, by people.

That doesn’t change the fact that you want teachers to accept that the material nature of their job and the number of work days for a previously negotiated rate of pay. I’m not working without being compensated.
If you do any research you’ll see that they aren’t teaching in tents. They are “holding as much of their classes outdoors as possible” which seems to primarily mean music and other classes that don’t require materials. The kids are sitting in the grass. It’s also a totally different culture. You know I’m going to get angry calls, “Johnny didn’t make it to the bathroom on time. The next time this happens I’m going to call the superintendent! This is child abuse” or “Elizabeth has a sunburn! I told you to apply sunblock every hour. You should be fired.” American parents are so high strung. You want us providing some kind of magical rigorous instruction in a post apocalyptic setting. You’re welcome to open up some freewheeling nature camp and watch other people’s kids all summer. It’s not happening.

Issue 1: paying people for work
Separate issue 2: having school outside as much as possible

I'm all in favor of paying people for work. I'm also really, really, really, really, really tired of hearing that it's impossible to do things that are actually being done in real life by real people. American exceptionalism now seems to mean "Americans can't do what everyone else can do".

We’re also the only first world country without universal healthcare so forgive us if we are naturally a little more risk averse than people in Denmark. They also get 18 weeks of paid maternal leave, 2 weeks of paternal leave, and 32 additional weeks they can split between them. They also have subsidized childcare and free education. Unemployment benefits last two years after losing your job. If you want us to be like Denmark then you can’t ignore all of those factors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As a teacher who works for a year round program, I can speak to this. We are paid a ten month salary. If you choose to work the summer you get paid an additional 18% of your yearly salary on top of your regular summer checks. Obviously, this is tremendously expensive for the district.
The only reason summer is bearable is because you go on many field trips, there’s only one official classroom observation, there is no testing, etc. All our classrooms are air conditioned. The pay is also great. You’re basically suggesting that teachers work with no extra pay, no air conditioning, no field trips, high anxiety, and worse. I agree that the bathroom would be a huge issue. When the weather is bad we just do what? Get soaked? I’m sorry but you can hire a sitter for the summer and ask them to do workbooks with your kid. I did not sign up for that.

Denmark is currently holding their school classes outdoors, or so I read. To be sure, Denmark in May is not Maryland in July. I expect it rains in Denmark, though, and I'm certain that kids and teachers in Denmark need to use bathrooms during the school day. In other words, some of these are problems that not only can be solved, but actually have been solved, somehow, by people.

That doesn’t change the fact that you want teachers to accept that the material nature of their job and the number of work days for a previously negotiated rate of pay. I’m not working without being compensated.
If you do any research you’ll see that they aren’t teaching in tents. They are “holding as much of their classes outdoors as possible” which seems to primarily mean music and other classes that don’t require materials. The kids are sitting in the grass. It’s also a totally different culture. You know I’m going to get angry calls, “Johnny didn’t make it to the bathroom on time. The next time this happens I’m going to call the superintendent! This is child abuse” or “Elizabeth has a sunburn! I told you to apply sunblock every hour. You should be fired.” American parents are so high strung. You want us providing some kind of magical rigorous instruction in a post apocalyptic setting. You’re welcome to open up some freewheeling nature camp and watch other people’s kids all summer. It’s not happening.

Issue 1: paying people for work
Separate issue 2: having school outside as much as possible

I'm all in favor of paying people for work. I'm also really, really, really, really, really tired of hearing that it's impossible to do things that are actually being done in real life by real people. American exceptionalism now seems to mean "Americans can't do what everyone else can do".

We’re also the only first world country without universal healthcare so forgive us if we are naturally a little more risk averse than people in Denmark. They also get 18 weeks of paid maternal leave, 2 weeks of paternal leave, and 32 additional weeks they can split between them. They also have subsidized childcare and free education. Unemployment benefits last two years after losing your job. If you want us to be like Denmark then you can’t ignore all of those factors.

Now explain why kids in Denmark are able to do things that DCUM insists kids can't do.

[Anonymous]

Total cases in Denmark: 10,300. Total deaths: 526. United States: 1.32 million cases. Total deaths: 78,000.
See? Exactly the same!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As a teacher who works for a year round program, I can speak to this. We are paid a ten month salary. If you choose to work the summer you get paid an additional 18% of your yearly salary on top of your regular summer checks. Obviously, this is tremendously expensive for the district.
The only reason summer is bearable is because you go on many field trips, there’s only one official classroom observation, there is no testing, etc. All our classrooms are air conditioned. The pay is also great. You’re basically suggesting that teachers work with no extra pay, no air conditioning, no field trips, high anxiety, and worse. I agree that the bathroom would be a huge issue. When the weather is bad we just do what? Get soaked? I’m sorry but you can hire a sitter for the summer and ask them to do workbooks with your kid. I did not sign up for that.

Denmark is currently holding their school classes outdoors, or so I read. To be sure, Denmark in May is not Maryland in July. I expect it rains in Denmark, though, and I'm certain that kids and teachers in Denmark need to use bathrooms during the school day. In other words, some of these are problems that not only can be solved, but actually have been solved, somehow, by people.

That doesn’t change the fact that you want teachers to accept that the material nature of their job and the number of work days for a previously negotiated rate of pay. I’m not working without being compensated.
If you do any research you’ll see that they aren’t teaching in tents. They are “holding as much of their classes outdoors as possible” which seems to primarily mean music and other classes that don’t require materials. The kids are sitting in the grass. It’s also a totally different culture. You know I’m going to get angry calls, “Johnny didn’t make it to the bathroom on time. The next time this happens I’m going to call the superintendent! This is child abuse” or “Elizabeth has a sunburn! I told you to apply sunblock every hour. You should be fired.” American parents are so high strung. You want us providing some kind of magical rigorous instruction in a post apocalyptic setting. You’re welcome to open up some freewheeling nature camp and watch other people’s kids all summer. It’s not happening.

Issue 1: paying people for work
Separate issue 2: having school outside as much as possible

I'm all in favor of paying people for work. I'm also really, really, really, really, really tired of hearing that it's impossible to do things that are actually being done in real life by real people. American exceptionalism now seems to mean "Americans can't do what everyone else can do".

We’re also the only first world country without universal healthcare so forgive us if we are naturally a little more risk averse than people in Denmark. They also get 18 weeks of paid maternal leave, 2 weeks of paternal leave, and 32 additional weeks they can split between them. They also have subsidized childcare and free education. Unemployment benefits last two years after losing your job. If you want us to be like Denmark then you can’t ignore all of those factors.

Now explain why kids in Denmark are able to do things that DCUM insists kids can't do.

Because of how parents raise their children in Denmark vs. how parents raise their children in the US.

US parenting=bulldozing the smoothest path possible for their kids and assigning blame onto everyone else when their child is unsuccessful or unhappy or even just gets a boo boo

The PP who talked about how parents here would eviscerate teachers if Larla got a sunburn or Larlo didn’t make it to the bathroom on time during outdoor school in a park is spot on. It already happens way too frequently in a much more controlled setting. We’re just not the kind of society where what Denmark is doing would work. You can’t just flip the switch to pretend our society and child rearing practices are anything like Denmark’s just because it’s now convenient for you to assert that it’s true in the hopes of getting free summer babysitting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As a teacher who works for a year round program, I can speak to this. We are paid a ten month salary. If you choose to work the summer you get paid an additional 18% of your yearly salary on top of your regular summer checks. Obviously, this is tremendously expensive for the district.
The only reason summer is bearable is because you go on many field trips, there’s only one official classroom observation, there is no testing, etc. All our classrooms are air conditioned. The pay is also great. You’re basically suggesting that teachers work with no extra pay, no air conditioning, no field trips, high anxiety, and worse. I agree that the bathroom would be a huge issue. When the weather is bad we just do what? Get soaked? I’m sorry but you can hire a sitter for the summer and ask them to do workbooks with your kid. I did not sign up for that.

Denmark is currently holding their school classes outdoors, or so I read. To be sure, Denmark in May is not Maryland in July. I expect it rains in Denmark, though, and I'm certain that kids and teachers in Denmark need to use bathrooms during the school day. In other words, some of these are problems that not only can be solved, but actually have been solved, somehow, by people.

That doesn’t change the fact that you want teachers to accept that the material nature of their job and the number of work days for a previously negotiated rate of pay. I’m not working without being compensated.
If you do any research you’ll see that they aren’t teaching in tents. They are “holding as much of their classes outdoors as possible” which seems to primarily mean music and other classes that don’t require materials. The kids are sitting in the grass. It’s also a totally different culture. You know I’m going to get angry calls, “Johnny didn’t make it to the bathroom on time. The next time this happens I’m going to call the superintendent! This is child abuse” or “Elizabeth has a sunburn! I told you to apply sunblock every hour. You should be fired.” American parents are so high strung. You want us providing some kind of magical rigorous instruction in a post apocalyptic setting. You’re welcome to open up some freewheeling nature camp and watch other people’s kids all summer. It’s not happening.

Issue 1: paying people for work
Separate issue 2: having school outside as much as possible

I'm all in favor of paying people for work. I'm also really, really, really, really, really tired of hearing that it's impossible to do things that are actually being done in real life by real people. American exceptionalism now seems to mean "Americans can't do what everyone else can do".

We’re also the only first world country without universal healthcare so forgive us if we are naturally a little more risk averse than people in Denmark. They also get 18 weeks of paid maternal leave, 2 weeks of paternal leave, and 32 additional weeks they can split between them. They also have subsidized childcare and free education. Unemployment benefits last two years after losing your job. If you want us to be like Denmark then you can’t ignore all of those factors.

Now explain why kids in Denmark are able to do things that DCUM insists kids can't do.

Because of how parents raise their children in Denmark vs. how parents raise their children in the US.

US parenting=bulldozing the smoothest path possible for their kids and assigning blame onto everyone else when their child is unsuccessful or unhappy or even just gets a boo boo

The PP who talked about how parents here would eviscerate teachers if Larla got a sunburn or Larlo didn’t make it to the bathroom on time during outdoor school in a park is spot on. It already happens way too frequently in a much more controlled setting. We’re just not the kind of society where what Denmark is doing would work. You can’t just flip the switch to pretend our society and child rearing practices are anything like Denmark’s just because it’s now convenient for you to assert that it’s true in the hopes of getting free summer babysitting.

That doesn't mean kids in the US can't do it. It means adults in the US don't want to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As a teacher who works for a year round program, I can speak to this. We are paid a ten month salary. If you choose to work the summer you get paid an additional 18% of your yearly salary on top of your regular summer checks. Obviously, this is tremendously expensive for the district.
The only reason summer is bearable is because you go on many field trips, there’s only one official classroom observation, there is no testing, etc. All our classrooms are air conditioned. The pay is also great. You’re basically suggesting that teachers work with no extra pay, no air conditioning, no field trips, high anxiety, and worse. I agree that the bathroom would be a huge issue. When the weather is bad we just do what? Get soaked? I’m sorry but you can hire a sitter for the summer and ask them to do workbooks with your kid. I did not sign up for that.

Denmark is currently holding their school classes outdoors, or so I read. To be sure, Denmark in May is not Maryland in July. I expect it rains in Denmark, though, and I'm certain that kids and teachers in Denmark need to use bathrooms during the school day. In other words, some of these are problems that not only can be solved, but actually have been solved, somehow, by people.

That doesn’t change the fact that you want teachers to accept that the material nature of their job and the number of work days for a previously negotiated rate of pay. I’m not working without being compensated.
If you do any research you’ll see that they aren’t teaching in tents. They are “holding as much of their classes outdoors as possible” which seems to primarily mean music and other classes that don’t require materials. The kids are sitting in the grass. It’s also a totally different culture. You know I’m going to get angry calls, “Johnny didn’t make it to the bathroom on time. The next time this happens I’m going to call the superintendent! This is child abuse” or “Elizabeth has a sunburn! I told you to apply sunblock every hour. You should be fired.” American parents are so high strung. You want us providing some kind of magical rigorous instruction in a post apocalyptic setting. You’re welcome to open up some freewheeling nature camp and watch other people’s kids all summer. It’s not happening.

Issue 1: paying people for work
Separate issue 2: having school outside as much as possible

I'm all in favor of paying people for work. I'm also really, really, really, really, really tired of hearing that it's impossible to do things that are actually being done in real life by real people. American exceptionalism now seems to mean "Americans can't do what everyone else can do".

We’re also the only first world country without universal healthcare so forgive us if we are naturally a little more risk averse than people in Denmark. They also get 18 weeks of paid maternal leave, 2 weeks of paternal leave, and 32 additional weeks they can split between them. They also have subsidized childcare and free education. Unemployment benefits last two years after losing your job. If you want us to be like Denmark then you can’t ignore all of those factors.

Now explain why kids in Denmark are able to do things that DCUM insists kids can't do.

Because of how parents raise their children in Denmark vs. how parents raise their children in the US.

US parenting=bulldozing the smoothest path possible for their kids and assigning blame onto everyone else when their child is unsuccessful or unhappy or even just gets a boo boo

The PP who talked about how parents here would eviscerate teachers if Larla got a sunburn or Larlo didn’t make it to the bathroom on time during outdoor school in a park is spot on. It already happens way too frequently in a much more controlled setting. We’re just not the kind of society where what Denmark is doing would work. You can’t just flip the switch to pretend our society and child rearing practices are anything like Denmark’s just because it’s now convenient for you to assert that it’s true in the hopes of getting free summer babysitting.

That doesn't mean kids in the US can't do it. It means adults in the US don't want to do it.

I think you’re being purposefully obtuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As a teacher who works for a year round program, I can speak to this. We are paid a ten month salary. If you choose to work the summer you get paid an additional 18% of your yearly salary on top of your regular summer checks. Obviously, this is tremendously expensive for the district.
The only reason summer is bearable is because you go on many field trips, there’s only one official classroom observation, there is no testing, etc. All our classrooms are air conditioned. The pay is also great. You’re basically suggesting that teachers work with no extra pay, no air conditioning, no field trips, high anxiety, and worse. I agree that the bathroom would be a huge issue. When the weather is bad we just do what? Get soaked? I’m sorry but you can hire a sitter for the summer and ask them to do workbooks with your kid. I did not sign up for that.

Denmark is currently holding their school classes outdoors, or so I read. To be sure, Denmark in May is not Maryland in July. I expect it rains in Denmark, though, and I'm certain that kids and teachers in Denmark need to use bathrooms during the school day. In other words, some of these are problems that not only can be solved, but actually have been solved, somehow, by people.

That doesn’t change the fact that you want teachers to accept that the material nature of their job and the number of work days for a previously negotiated rate of pay. I’m not working without being compensated.
If you do any research you’ll see that they aren’t teaching in tents. They are “holding as much of their classes outdoors as possible” which seems to primarily mean music and other classes that don’t require materials. The kids are sitting in the grass. It’s also a totally different culture. You know I’m going to get angry calls, “Johnny didn’t make it to the bathroom on time. The next time this happens I’m going to call the superintendent! This is child abuse” or “Elizabeth has a sunburn! I told you to apply sunblock every hour. You should be fired.” American parents are so high strung. You want us providing some kind of magical rigorous instruction in a post apocalyptic setting. You’re welcome to open up some freewheeling nature camp and watch other people’s kids all summer. It’s not happening.

Issue 1: paying people for work
Separate issue 2: having school outside as much as possible

I'm all in favor of paying people for work. I'm also really, really, really, really, really tired of hearing that it's impossible to do things that are actually being done in real life by real people. American exceptionalism now seems to mean "Americans can't do what everyone else can do".

We’re also the only first world country without universal healthcare so forgive us if we are naturally a little more risk averse than people in Denmark. They also get 18 weeks of paid maternal leave, 2 weeks of paternal leave, and 32 additional weeks they can split between them. They also have subsidized childcare and free education. Unemployment benefits last two years after losing your job. If you want us to be like Denmark then you can’t ignore all of those factors.

Now explain why kids in Denmark are able to do things that DCUM insists kids can't do.

Because of how parents raise their children in Denmark vs. how parents raise their children in the US.

US parenting=bulldozing the smoothest path possible for their kids and assigning blame onto everyone else when their child is unsuccessful or unhappy or even just gets a boo boo

The PP who talked about how parents here would eviscerate teachers if Larla got a sunburn or Larlo didn’t make it to the bathroom on time during outdoor school in a park is spot on. It already happens way too frequently in a much more controlled setting. We’re just not the kind of society where what Denmark is doing would work. You can’t just flip the switch to pretend our society and child rearing practices are anything like Denmark’s just because it’s now convenient for you to assert that it’s true in the hopes of getting free summer babysitting.

That doesn't mean kids in the US can't do it. It means adults in the US don't want to do it.

Let’s just say for the sake of convenience that kids in the US can flip that switch to summer outdoor schooling. Do you really think that *their parents* would be able to? Do you think that all of a sudden they’d send their 6 year olds to a random outdoor venue and be fine with the expectation that their child will be responsible for their own sunscreen, bug spray, port a potty visits and water intake? They would just send their kids off to outdoor school in July without expectations that their child will receive attention equivalent to what a parent would provide? For those of you who would say “well we send them to camp so what’s the difference?” The difference is that you pay for camp, which enables the children to adult ratio to be much smaller, and there are no instructional/academic expectations for camp. Teachers are not camp counselors.

The other important factor here is that Danish parents have raised their children to be resilient, empathetic, well-behaved and have more self-control. The majority of American parents have not been raising their children to be this way, and do not exhibit those traits themselves, so it’s quite disingenuous to make the assertion that US kids (and parents) can mimic Danish kids and parents just because it’s now more convenient for parents to say that.

http://www.fatherly.com/love-and-money/why-danish-parents-and-their-kids-are-happier-than-americans/amp/

[Anonymous]

Things parents in my class have demanded:
-I clean their child's face with special wipes following each meal
-I prevent them from getting paint on their clothes during art class
-I prevent them from getting food on their shirt while eating
-I prevent them from getting stung by bees (no allergy-just that I should not allow this to happen...you know, because I am god)
-I collect their miniature special toys that they brought in their backpacks and scattered throughout the school
-I collect their child's barrettes that they yank out of their hair and stash all over the building each day (or you could stop sending her to school with fifteen decorative hair clips every day...just a thought)
-I account for a tiny scratch on their child's hand/face/arm/leg
-I report back to them in an hour and then in two hours with how their child was feeling (they sent them to school with a fever and a cough)
Yes, parents will definitely be thrilled when their child comes home damp from sitting in the grass for fifty minutes during art class or gets a bug bite. What's your solution for city schools where going outside is not an option? Lots of schools don't have yards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Things parents in my class have demanded:
-I clean their child's face with special wipes following each meal
-I prevent them from getting paint on their clothes during art class
-I prevent them from getting food on their shirt while eating
-I prevent them from getting stung by bees (no allergy-just that I should not allow this to happen...you know, because I am god)
-I collect their miniature special toys that they brought in their backpacks and scattered throughout the school
-I collect their child's barrettes that they yank out of their hair and stash all over the building each day (or you could stop sending her to school with fifteen decorative hair clips every day...just a thought)
-I account for a tiny scratch on their child's hand/face/arm/leg
-I report back to them in an hour and then in two hours with how their child was feeling (they sent them to school with a fever and a cough)
Yes, parents will definitely be thrilled when their child comes home damp from sitting in the grass for fifty minutes during art class or gets a bug bite. What's your solution for city schools where going outside is not an option? Lots of schools don't have yards.

Maybe you think it's better for young elementary school students to continue "distance learning." I don't.