Resignation, Impeachment, or Mortality?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about using the election process?

You assume the election process isn't already rigged. The senators certainly seem to be unconcerned.

And there is a very good reason that the Constitution has several mechanisms for removing those who have been elected.

Several?? Try one which is a vote of a 2/3 majority on the Senate. Most people in America including myself support an impeachment vote. We should have an impeachment hearing. Why not? It has been called for since day one. Get on with one it already. If Trump is guilty of more than just simply what was on the transcript of a phone call then he should be removed if it meets the approval of 2/3 of the Senate. Right now, there is not enough yet to convince the super majority and remove from office. There are many reasons not to support Trump. I feel a vote or election would be the proper way to decide. Impeaching and failing to convict in the senate would not be good for any of us and would tip the scales toward his re-election.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm beginning to believe that Senate Rs will impeach Trump, but it's still hard for me to believe that they would also impeach Pence, even though he is just as dirty in the whole UKR mess.

So, my prediction is that Trump will be impeached and removed, Pence will become President and immediately pardon Trump, and Trump will continue to rally the base claiming a coup until he is finally convicted for some NY state tax or financial offense and sent for a minimal jail term.

Impeachment is a political process, not a criminal prosecution. Pence can't pardon him if he's impeached because there is no criminal conviction to be pardoned.

Ford pardoned Nixon.

Trump can't be pardoned from impeachment - to the best of my knowledge, there is no impeachment "pardon" - but Pence could pardon him from any federal crimes, as Ford did for Nixon

Someone here is being incredibly pedantic and/or pretending not to understand what PP meant

I did not make myself clear enough, perhaps. What I meant is that Pence will pardon Trump for any and all crimes just like Ford pardoned Nixon. Trump will leave office, but he will not be in jail, thus he will be a loose cannon still unless a state, like NY, decides to try him for crimes. (tax evasion, financial fraud, etc.)

I think Trump has committed crimes. I think that we don't have all the evidence yet. I think that the Mueller report clearly showed that he obstructed justice. I think it's clear that he is going to obstruct justice again with Congress, to the best of his ability. I worry that despite impeachment, Trump will not fade away. I worry that there are significant numbers of crazy Americans who would follow Trump violently if he continues to shout "coup" and "treason".

What the liberals here just don't understand is this is our Constitution in action.
The House has issued subpoenas. The WH views those as bogus because the House has not taken a vote and because there is no vote, the House can implement their own rules. Those rules do not allow the Republicans any rights or authority in this process. The Republicans are not permitted to subpoena anyone. They don't have access to some of the material that the Democrats do.
So, the courts will determine who is correct in this situation. If it gets that far.

My bet is Nancy won't go to the courts because she is afraid she will lose and will be told that in order to continue, a vote must be taken.

Lol

You had it right in your first sentence. This is the Constitution in action. The rest is just silly nonsense.

Where exactly is the nonsense? All of it is true.

Democrats are following the rules of the House (which does not call for a vote). Do you know when those rules went into effect? In 2015 - when a republican house made the rule change so they could go after a democratic president. Karma and all that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about using the election process?

You assume the election process isn't already rigged. The senators certainly seem to be unconcerned.

And there is a very good reason that the Constitution has several mechanisms for removing those who have been elected.

Several?? Try one which is a vote of a 2/3 majority on the Senate. Most people in America including myself support an impeachment vote. We should have an impeachment hearing. Why not? It has been called for since day one. Get on with one it already. If Trump is guilty of more than just simply what was on the transcript of a phone call then he should be removed if it meets the approval of 2/3 of the Senate. Right now, there is not enough yet to convince the super majority and remove from office. There are many reasons not to support Trump. I feel a vote or election would be the proper way to decide. Impeaching and failing to convict in the senate would not be good for any of us and would tip the scales toward his re-election.

“Guilty of more than just simply what was on the transcript of the call?” When did that become the new goalpost? Do you think what we saw on the transcript was ok?

If the Democrats come to electoral harm for pursuing impeachment, so be it. It is the only possible response in a country of laws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about using the election process?

You assume the election process isn't already rigged. The senators certainly seem to be unconcerned.

And there is a very good reason that the Constitution has several mechanisms for removing those who have been elected.

Several?? Try one which is a vote of a 2/3 majority on the Senate. Most people in America including myself support an impeachment vote. We should have an impeachment hearing. Why not? It has been called for since day one. Get on with one it already. If Trump is guilty of more than just simply what was on the transcript of a phone call then he should be removed if it meets the approval of 2/3 of the Senate. Right now, there is not enough yet to convince the super majority and remove from office. There are many reasons not to support Trump. I feel a vote or election would be the proper way to decide. Impeaching and failing to convict in the senate would not be good for any of us and would tip the scales toward his re-election.

“Guilty of more than just simply what was on the transcript of the call?” When did that become the new goalpost? Do you think what we saw on the transcript was ok?

If the Democrats come to electoral harm for pursuing impeachment, so be it. It is the only possible response in a country of laws.

I actually would like to see Trump impeached. However, what is the basis of this impeachment? We keep waiting for a "smoking gun" a "whistleblower" it does not matter what you or I or the people on this board think. What will convince the Senate? I do not like the idea of impeachment AND removal being used as a tool to remove a very bad president. That is what the election process is for. I do not think he will be removed from office and I think it will help him in the election. NOT A GOOD outcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about using the election process?

You assume the election process isn't already rigged. The senators certainly seem to be unconcerned.

And there is a very good reason that the Constitution has several mechanisms for removing those who have been elected.

Several?? Try one which is a vote of a 2/3 majority on the Senate. Most people in America including myself support an impeachment vote. We should have an impeachment hearing. Why not? It has been called for since day one. Get on with one it already. If Trump is guilty of more than just simply what was on the transcript of a phone call then he should be removed if it meets the approval of 2/3 of the Senate. Right now, there is not enough yet to convince the super majority and remove from office. There are many reasons not to support Trump. I feel a vote or election would be the proper way to decide. Impeaching and failing to convict in the senate would not be good for any of us and would tip the scales toward his re-election.

“Guilty of more than just simply what was on the transcript of the call?” When did that become the new goalpost? Do you think what we saw on the transcript was ok?

If the Democrats come to electoral harm for pursuing impeachment, so be it. It is the only possible response in a country of laws.

I actually would like to see Trump impeached. However, what is the basis of this impeachment? We keep waiting for a "smoking gun" a "whistleblower" it does not matter what you or I or the people on this board think. What will convince the Senate? I do not like the idea of impeachment AND removal being used as a tool to remove a very bad president. That is what the election process is for. I do not think he will be removed from office and I think it will help him in the election. NOT A GOOD outcome.

Your bias is showing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about using the election process?

You assume the election process isn't already rigged. The senators certainly seem to be unconcerned.

And there is a very good reason that the Constitution has several mechanisms for removing those who have been elected.

Several?? Try one which is a vote of a 2/3 majority on the Senate. Most people in America including myself support an impeachment vote. We should have an impeachment hearing. Why not? It has been called for since day one. Get on with one it already. If Trump is guilty of more than just simply what was on the transcript of a phone call then he should be removed if it meets the approval of 2/3 of the Senate. Right now, there is not enough yet to convince the super majority and remove from office. There are many reasons not to support Trump. I feel a vote or election would be the proper way to decide. Impeaching and failing to convict in the senate would not be good for any of us and would tip the scales toward his re-election.

“Guilty of more than just simply what was on the transcript of the call?” When did that become the new goalpost? Do you think what we saw on the transcript was ok?

If the Democrats come to electoral harm for pursuing impeachment, so be it. It is the only possible response in a country of laws.

I actually would like to see Trump impeached. However, what is the basis of this impeachment? We keep waiting for a "smoking gun" a "whistleblower" it does not matter what you or I or the people on this board think. What will convince the Senate? I do not like the idea of impeachment AND removal being used as a tool to remove a very bad president. That is what the election process is for. I do not think he will be removed from office and I think it will help him in the election. NOT A GOOD outcome.

He’s guilty of abuse of power. He withheld military assistance to an ally until they “do us a favor though.” It doesn’t matter what the favor was, nor if it ever happened. The ASK is enough.

[Anonymous]

“Do ME a favor though...” because trump only ever thinks about himself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about using the election process?

You assume the election process isn't already rigged. The senators certainly seem to be unconcerned.

And there is a very good reason that the Constitution has several mechanisms for removing those who have been elected.

Several?? Try one which is a vote of a 2/3 majority on the Senate. Most people in America including myself support an impeachment vote. We should have an impeachment hearing. Why not? It has been called for since day one. Get on with one it already. If Trump is guilty of more than just simply what was on the transcript of a phone call then he should be removed if it meets the approval of 2/3 of the Senate. Right now, there is not enough yet to convince the super majority and remove from office. There are many reasons not to support Trump. I feel a vote or election would be the proper way to decide. Impeaching and failing to convict in the senate would not be good for any of us and would tip the scales toward his re-election.

So you don't actually know what you are talking about. You are wrong. Do your research before posting.

[Anonymous]

This week will be deposition-heavy and will confirm the fact that Trump allowed or directed Giuliani to shape US foreign policy *while he was on the payroll of the countries he was negotiating with*. This is one of the high crimes and misdemeanors highlighted in the Constitution. It is indefensible, and Republicans are not defending it.

I'm starting to lean towards presidential resignation before removal from office, similar to Nixon. Trump will not want to be the first President to be removed from office. He will prefer to resign, citing fake news, unfairness, etc, and be pardoned by Pence.

[Anonymous]

So, this whole process is like a constitutional candy store for Con Law geeks. Consider all of the questions and theories Trumps defenders have thrown out there, and then read this passage from page 53 of a classic Constitutional law textbook, in the very first chapter on Judicial Review, in the notes and questions:

"7. .... Does a presidential impeachment by the House and removal by the Senate raise justiciable issues? What if the President claims that the allegations against him do not constitute "high crimes and misdemeanors?" What if the President claims that the actions of the House or Senate were procedurally defective -- e.g., his pleading of the Fifth Amendment was improperly found to be evidence of guilt; or that biased Senators did not recuse themselves; or other Senators only heard parts of the trial; or that in the middle of the lengthy impeachment process there was an election of Congressmen and the two Houses did not begin the process anew after the election?"

Rotunda, Modern Constitutional Law cases and notes Third ed. (1989)

These, of course, are meant to be hypothetical questions for discussion and debate among law students and are not real claims or situations, nor are they answered anywhere. But it is as if someone on the far right read them and has people running around trying to raise these exact hypothetical situations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about using the election process?

You assume the election process isn't already rigged. The senators certainly seem to be unconcerned.

And there is a very good reason that the Constitution has several mechanisms for removing those who have been elected.

Several?? Try one which is a vote of a 2/3 majority on the Senate. Most people in America including myself support an impeachment vote. We should have an impeachment hearing. Why not? It has been called for since day one. Get on with one it already. If Trump is guilty of more than just simply what was on the transcript of a phone call then he should be removed if it meets the approval of 2/3 of the Senate. Right now, there is not enough yet to convince the super majority and remove from office. There are many reasons not to support Trump. I feel a vote or election would be the proper way to decide. Impeaching and failing to convict in the senate would not be good for any of us and would tip the scales toward his re-election.

“Guilty of more than just simply what was on the transcript of the call?” When did that become the new goalpost? Do you think what we saw on the transcript was ok?

If the Democrats come to electoral harm for pursuing impeachment, so be it. It is the only possible response in a country of laws.

I actually would like to see Trump impeached. However, what is the basis of this impeachment? We keep waiting for a "smoking gun" a "whistleblower" it does not matter what you or I or the people on this board think. What will convince the Senate? I do not like the idea of impeachment AND removal being used as a tool to remove a very bad president. That is what the election process is for. I do not think he will be removed from office and I think it will help him in the election. NOT A GOOD outcome.

Your bias is showing.

Whatever you think my bias may or may not be is irrelevant to the post. The most important question should be does an impeachment in the house sent to the Senate lead to Trump's removal? If it does not, what next. Is that good or bad for democrats. I am neither a Trump supporter or Republican. I am a realist. My bias or your perception of it does nothing to change alter the question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about using the election process?

You assume the election process isn't already rigged. The senators certainly seem to be unconcerned.

And there is a very good reason that the Constitution has several mechanisms for removing those who have been elected.

Several?? Try one which is a vote of a 2/3 majority on the Senate. Most people in America including myself support an impeachment vote. We should have an impeachment hearing. Why not? It has been called for since day one. Get on with one it already. If Trump is guilty of more than just simply what was on the transcript of a phone call then he should be removed if it meets the approval of 2/3 of the Senate. Right now, there is not enough yet to convince the super majority and remove from office. There are many reasons not to support Trump. I feel a vote or election would be the proper way to decide. Impeaching and failing to convict in the senate would not be good for any of us and would tip the scales toward his re-election.

“Guilty of more than just simply what was on the transcript of the call?” When did that become the new goalpost? Do you think what we saw on the transcript was ok?

If the Democrats come to electoral harm for pursuing impeachment, so be it. It is the only possible response in a country of laws.

I actually would like to see Trump impeached. However, what is the basis of this impeachment? We keep waiting for a "smoking gun" a "whistleblower" it does not matter what you or I or the people on this board think. What will convince the Senate? I do not like the idea of impeachment AND removal being used as a tool to remove a very bad president. That is what the election process is for. I do not think he will be removed from office and I think it will help him in the election. NOT A GOOD outcome.

The House will present the basis of this impeachment - the whistleblower at this point is almost moot. It will likely have something to do with encouraging a foreign power to meddle in domestic US politics. And will likely have something to do with obstruction of justice. Once they have gathered the data for their case, they will take a vote to impeach. If the vote is successful, the House will make a case to the Senate where each Senator will have to go on record and cast a vote on whether the evidence is strong enough for them as a body to remove the President from office. However they chose to vote, the Senators will be accountable to their constituents in the next election cycle (like their House brethren). Neither you nor I know what the penalty for either those that vote for or against impeachment (in the House) and for or against removal (in the Senate) will be. But I stand by my earlier claim that the democratic House has to stand on principle and impeach based on what is in the open domain (and undisputed by the Administration) regardless of the political fall out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about using the election process?

You assume the election process isn't already rigged. The senators certainly seem to be unconcerned.

And there is a very good reason that the Constitution has several mechanisms for removing those who have been elected.

Several?? Try one which is a vote of a 2/3 majority on the Senate. Most people in America including myself support an impeachment vote. We should have an impeachment hearing. Why not? It has been called for since day one. Get on with one it already. If Trump is guilty of more than just simply what was on the transcript of a phone call then he should be removed if it meets the approval of 2/3 of the Senate. Right now, there is not enough yet to convince the super majority and remove from office. There are many reasons not to support Trump. I feel a vote or election would be the proper way to decide. Impeaching and failing to convict in the senate would not be good for any of us and would tip the scales toward his re-election.

“Guilty of more than just simply what was on the transcript of the call?” When did that become the new goalpost? Do you think what we saw on the transcript was ok?

If the Democrats come to electoral harm for pursuing impeachment, so be it. It is the only possible response in a country of laws.

I actually would like to see Trump impeached. However, what is the basis of this impeachment? We keep waiting for a "smoking gun" a "whistleblower" it does not matter what you or I or the people on this board think. What will convince the Senate? I do not like the idea of impeachment AND removal being used as a tool to remove a very bad president. That is what the election process is for. I do not think he will be removed from office and I think it will help him in the election. NOT A GOOD outcome.

The House will present the basis of this impeachment - the whistleblower at this point is almost moot. It will likely have something to do with encouraging a foreign power to meddle in domestic US politics. And will likely have something to do with obstruction of justice. Once they have gathered the data for their case, they will take a vote to impeach. If the vote is successful, the House will make a case to the Senate where each Senator will have to go on record and cast a vote on whether the evidence is strong enough for them as a body to remove the President from office. However they chose to vote, the Senators will be accountable to their constituents in the next election cycle (like their House brethren). Neither you nor I know what the penalty for either those that vote for or against impeachment (in the House) and for or against removal (in the Senate) will be. But I stand by my earlier claim that the democratic House has to stand on principle and impeach based on what is in the open domain (and undisputed by the Administration) regardless of the political fall out.

Agree with this.

[Anonymous]

This thread title should be Prison, Psych Ward or Flee the Country

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about using the election process?

You assume the election process isn't already rigged. The senators certainly seem to be unconcerned.

And there is a very good reason that the Constitution has several mechanisms for removing those who have been elected.

Several?? Try one which is a vote of a 2/3 majority on the Senate. Most people in America including myself support an impeachment vote. We should have an impeachment hearing. Why not? It has been called for since day one. Get on with one it already. If Trump is guilty of more than just simply what was on the transcript of a phone call then he should be removed if it meets the approval of 2/3 of the Senate. Right now, there is not enough yet to convince the super majority and remove from office. There are many reasons not to support Trump. I feel a vote or election would be the proper way to decide. Impeaching and failing to convict in the senate would not be good for any of us and would tip the scales toward his re-election.

“Guilty of more than just simply what was on the transcript of the call?” When did that become the new goalpost? Do you think what we saw on the transcript was ok?

If the Democrats come to electoral harm for pursuing impeachment, so be it. It is the only possible response in a country of laws.

I actually would like to see Trump impeached. However, what is the basis of this impeachment? We keep waiting for a "smoking gun" a "whistleblower" it does not matter what you or I or the people on this board think. What will convince the Senate? I do not like the idea of impeachment AND removal being used as a tool to remove a very bad president. That is what the election process is for. I do not think he will be removed from office and I think it will help him in the election. NOT A GOOD outcome.

The House will present the basis of this impeachment - the whistleblower at this point is almost moot. It will likely have something to do with encouraging a foreign power to meddle in domestic US politics. And will likely have something to do with obstruction of justice. Once they have gathered the data for their case, they will take a vote to impeach. If the vote is successful, the House will make a case to the Senate where each Senator will have to go on record and cast a vote on whether the evidence is strong enough for them as a body to remove the President from office. However they chose to vote, the Senators will be accountable to their constituents in the next election cycle (like their House brethren). Neither you nor I know what the penalty for either those that vote for or against impeachment (in the House) and for or against removal (in the Senate) will be. But I stand by my earlier claim that the democratic House has to stand on principle and impeach based on what is in the open domain (and undisputed by the Administration) regardless of the political fall out.

Your summary is accurate and well thought out. I agree this looks to be the likely scenario. The issue I see is that even in your own words the basis of impeachment will only likely have something to do with obstruction and have something to do with encouraging a foreign power. These are not solid definitions of impeachable offenses in my opinion. This was also true in the Clinton impeachment. A senator can likely opine about the case was simply not strong enough. The content of the transcript of the phone call in and of itself is not enough to ensure a conviction in the Senate it just isn't. If it were, there would be an impeachment vote tomorrow. It is reprehensible foreign policy but not unique and not enough to remove from office. I am not a democrat and I am likely to vote for a third party candidate as I would never accept a party label, but I would encourage the opposition to Trump to simply build the case against him at the ballot box. Elections are another way to remove a bad actor from office. Impeachment, which I think will fail in the Senate, makes the majority (those not on the far right or left) feel disenfranchised as if their vote could be overturned in the future. Accuse me of bias if you think you must, this is simply they way I see it. I do think Trump will be impeached in the house and not removed by the Senate. There are so many ways to campaign against him. This is politically not the best path forward. How does it help if he is not removed from office?