Who said there isn't a North-South divide?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So whats the solution -- should we move to an all lottery model? You rank your top 4 choices and you get what you get?

This kind of thing might be fun to fantasize about but it would never happen.

That's true. It's also true that's there is probably a ceiling on mc/UMC in SA schools. If option schools aren't expanded as the overall school population grows, you'll see more people in SA opting for private schools to avoid the teach to the test culture that dominates SA neighborhood schools. This will in turn free up room at the higher levels, including Wakefield, which will in turn lead to zoning units north of 50 to the cc and Wakefield to relieve overcrowding at W-L. That will be real entertainment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So whats the solution -- should we move to an all lottery model? You rank your top 4 choices and you get what you get?

Eliminate all choice school options in SA. Make everyone go to their neighborhood school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Particular cases aside, the N/S differences in teacher retention should be a concern for APS.

All Arlington schools are great!

You really just can’t go wrong with any of them.

Especially Discovery, which is presumably why a certain senior APS administrator paid a premium to live in that schools zone a couple years ago.

Can someone please translate this??

There’s a repeat poster who is personally offended that the Asst. Superintendent of Teaching and Learning lives in the Discovery zone.

I don’t think it’s just one poster. She has the right to live where it works best for her family, but I have to say it didn’t look great to me.
-Randolph parent

Which schools would have been acceptable? McKinley with its 9% FARMS? Ashlawn at 19%? If she'd moved to ASFS (23%) or Oakridge (25%), would that be enough or would anything less than 70% FARMS rate still be a slight?

Maybe one that wasn't the newest, most extravagant, and among the least integrated.

I think it's more a reflection of how well APS staff is paid.

Besides, I prefer an Asst Supt of Teaching and Learning who understands there are important differences between our schools. Why single her out? Why aren't you critics chastising all APS staff - and SB members - for not living in Title I school zones AND not sending their kids to their neighborhood Title I schools? Are we to implement some residency requirement mandating that all senior staff and elected SB members live in certain school zones and send their kids to those specific schools? I'm glad to have someone in her role who acknowledges, understands, and at least TRIES to advance solutions for those differences! And, sadly, those proposed solutions have greater credibility coming from someone who is not a white UMC parent in south Arlington.

You’re talking to someone who is more interested in attacking people and wallowing in their bitterness than in working on constructive solutions. Hatefulness isn’t worth responding to, let alone trying to reason with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So whats the solution -- should we move to an all lottery model? You rank your top 4 choices and you get what you get?

This kind of thing might be fun to fantasize about but it would never happen.

That's true. It's also true that's there is probably a ceiling on mc/UMC in SA schools. If option schools aren't expanded as the overall school population grows, you'll see more people in SA opting for private schools to avoid the teach to the test culture that dominates SA neighborhood schools. This will in turn free up room at the higher levels, including Wakefield, which will in turn lead to zoning units north of 50 to the cc and Wakefield to relieve overcrowding at W-L. That will be real entertainment

If all of those families could afford private school and didn’t want to associate with their neighbors, they probably wouldn’t live in SA. Sure, some would go to private schools, but most would either go to their local schools or would move, resolving some of the crowding issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So whats the solution -- should we move to an all lottery model? You rank your top 4 choices and you get what you get?

Bring back tracking. This situation is why it was invented. It would never happen here because we're too PC but everyone knows that personalized learning is just a inane buzzword to wave away the very real difficulty of teaching a classroom that is so heterogeneous in terms of ability, experience, and language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So whats the solution -- should we move to an all lottery model? You rank your top 4 choices and you get what you get?

Eliminate all choice school options in SA. Make everyone go to their neighborhood school.

You can try that and what will actually happen is that the mc will leave wholesale and then NA units get zoned to Wakefield to relieve overcrowding.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The middle class S Arlington hate is unnerving. You shouldn’t have to be richor poor and brown to live in Arlington and have an opinion or desire for a good walkable school. Live right vote left by N Arlington is alive and well. Moving to N Arlington or Fairfax is not a viable solution. I doubt it will happen but I do hope the Board finds some balls and just starts drawing east west crazy boundaries.

The board are politicians. They respond to the incentives that politicians do, which is votes. Funfact: this supposed entity, the "white UMC SA parent" is a pretty rare bird. SA elementaries, including option schools, have only 1600 hundred white students, or about 30% of the total SA elementary student population. About 500 of those students are in option schools and the vast majority of them live in south Arlington and are zoned for a SA neighborhood school. Now subtract Oakridge and Henry, neither of which is a title 1 school. You're left with 460 "white SA UMC" kids, some of whom are certainly not "UMC", not by Arlington standards anyway. In contrast, there almost 5,000 white, UMC kids in NA elementaries. They make up 65% of all NA elementary students.

Whose parents do you think the SB is going to listen to in county wide debates over things like school boundaries, diversity, and proximity? It's about the numbers. South Arlington gets the shaft because it's not as big, and because a comparatively large percentage of its residents can't or don't vote.

Then you aren’t seeing the loom tide. Maybe the strollers in Douglas Park, Alcova Heights, and Barcroft won’t matter. Maybe those familes will do as previous generations have done- move or go private...
But I doubt it. The commutes downtown are worse every year..I wouldn’t count on past trends. The numbers will probbaly never surpass NA, but it may grow large enougni the next 10 years to make everything more painful and nasty than it already is.

You're not doing the math. If every single kid in a DP SFH went to Randolph the school would still be title 1. Barcroft apartments is enormous and will be there in perpetuity.

You aren’t looking at the big picture or far enough down the road. If you are comparing all of NA and all of SA as voting blocks, you have to look down the road at all of the proposed development slated for Crystal city. Those buildings will have families and they will not quietly accept crappy schools. It’s going to get so much uglier in 10-20 years.

[Anonymous]

Here are some numbers for you -
https://www.arlnow.com/2018/07/06/report-arlington-will-add-24000-new-homes-through-2040/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So whats the solution -- should we move to an all lottery model? You rank your top 4 choices and you get what you get?

Eliminate all choice school options in SA. Make everyone go to their neighborhood school.

No, we've got enough equity to move, and plenty of income to afford private, as do all of our neighbors. Force is not likely to help. People who wouldn't send their kids to the neighborhood schools by choice won't go to the neighborhood schools by force. Some that are better integrated and trending in the right direction with test scores might stand a chance, but the ones that have only one SFH neighborhood and then hundreds of units of AH within the walk zone, where over 70% of the students within the physical zone are living below the poverty line, won't ever change unless the neighborhoods themselves change or the boundaries change significantly. The vast majority of UMC professionals will not accept sending their kids to schools without adequate capital, both financial and social. Do I like that this is the truth? No. But it is the truth. It's a fantasy to believe differently. I think most people living in SA want truly diverse schools, and that is why the option schools are so popular. Until they perceive high poverty schools as being just as able to address the needs and abilities of their more affluent children, they will find alternatives. They will because they can. Simple as that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So whats the solution -- should we move to an all lottery model? You rank your top 4 choices and you get what you get?

Eliminate all choice school options in SA. Make everyone go to their neighborhood school.

No, we've got enough equity to move, and plenty of income to afford private, as do all of our neighbors. Force is not likely to help. People who wouldn't send their kids to the neighborhood schools by choice won't go to the neighborhood schools by force. Some that are better integrated and trending in the right direction with test scores might stand a chance, but the ones that have only one SFH neighborhood and then hundreds of units of AH within the walk zone, where over 70% of the students within the physical zone are living below the poverty line, won't ever change unless the neighborhoods themselves change or the boundaries change significantly. The vast majority of UMC professionals will not accept sending their kids to schools without adequate capital, both financial and social. Do I like that this is the truth? No. But it is the truth. It's a fantasy to believe differently. I think most people living in SA want truly diverse schools, and that is why the option schools are so popular. Until they perceive high poverty schools as being just as able to address the needs and abilities of their more affluent children, they will find alternatives. They will because they can. Simple as that.

Agreed. People aren’t understanding that a school like Randolph would not be significantly impacted if every UMC kid suddenly enrolled next year. Maybe it drops from 77 % low income to 69%. That’s not going to be acceptable to most educated parents. As well it shouldn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So whats the solution -- should we move to an all lottery model? You rank your top 4 choices and you get what you get?

Eliminate all choice school options in SA. Make everyone go to their neighborhood school.

No, we've got enough equity to move, and plenty of income to afford private, as do all of our neighbors. Force is not likely to help. People who wouldn't send their kids to the neighborhood schools by choice won't go to the neighborhood schools by force. Some that are better integrated and trending in the right direction with test scores might stand a chance, but the ones that have only one SFH neighborhood and then hundreds of units of AH within the walk zone, where over 70% of the students within the physical zone are living below the poverty line, won't ever change unless the neighborhoods themselves change or the boundaries change significantly. The vast majority of UMC professionals will not accept sending their kids to schools without adequate capital, both financial and social. Do I like that this is the truth? No. But it is the truth. It's a fantasy to believe differently. I think most people living in SA want truly diverse schools, and that is why the option schools are so popular. Until they perceive high poverty schools as being just as able to address the needs and abilities of their more affluent children, they will find alternatives. They will because they can. Simple as that.

Agreed. People aren’t understanding that a school like Randolph would not be significantly impacted if every UMC kid suddenly enrolled next year. Maybe it drops from 77 % low income to 69%. That’s not going to be acceptable to most educated parents. As well it shouldn’t.

Then perhaps they shouldn't have bought houses there in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So whats the solution -- should we move to an all lottery model? You rank your top 4 choices and you get what you get?

Eliminate all choice school options in SA. Make everyone go to their neighborhood school.

No, we've got enough equity to move, and plenty of income to afford private, as do all of our neighbors. Force is not likely to help. People who wouldn't send their kids to the neighborhood schools by choice won't go to the neighborhood schools by force. Some that are better integrated and trending in the right direction with test scores might stand a chance, but the ones that have only one SFH neighborhood and then hundreds of units of AH within the walk zone, where over 70% of the students within the physical zone are living below the poverty line, won't ever change unless the neighborhoods themselves change or the boundaries change significantly. The vast majority of UMC professionals will not accept sending their kids to schools without adequate capital, both financial and social. Do I like that this is the truth? No. But it is the truth. It's a fantasy to believe differently. I think most people living in SA want truly diverse schools, and that is why the option schools are so popular. Until they perceive high poverty schools as being just as able to address the needs and abilities of their more affluent children, they will find alternatives. They will because they can. Simple as that.

Agreed. People aren’t understanding that a school like Randolph would not be significantly impacted if every UMC kid suddenly enrolled next year. Maybe it drops from 77 % low income to 69%. That’s not going to be acceptable to most educated parents. As well it shouldn’t.

Then perhaps they shouldn't have bought houses there in the first place.

You are slow. It doesn't matter if you take away option schools. They still have options. That won't solve the problem of integration or opportunity gaps, which is what I think was being suggested unthread as a reason for eliminating option schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So whats the solution -- should we move to an all lottery model? You rank your top 4 choices and you get what you get?

Eliminate all choice school options in SA. Make everyone go to their neighborhood school.

No, we've got enough equity to move, and plenty of income to afford private, as do all of our neighbors. Force is not likely to help. People who wouldn't send their kids to the neighborhood schools by choice won't go to the neighborhood schools by force. Some that are better integrated and trending in the right direction with test scores might stand a chance, but the ones that have only one SFH neighborhood and then hundreds of units of AH within the walk zone, where over 70% of the students within the physical zone are living below the poverty line, won't ever change unless the neighborhoods themselves change or the boundaries change significantly. The vast majority of UMC professionals will not accept sending their kids to schools without adequate capital, both financial and social. Do I like that this is the truth? No. But it is the truth. It's a fantasy to believe differently. I think most people living in SA want truly diverse schools, and that is why the option schools are so popular. Until they perceive high poverty schools as being just as able to address the needs and abilities of their more affluent children, they will find alternatives. They will because they can. Simple as that.

Agreed. People aren’t understanding that a school like Randolph would not be significantly impacted if every UMC kid suddenly enrolled next year. Maybe it drops from 77 % low income to 69%. That’s not going to be acceptable to most educated parents. As well it shouldn’t.

Then perhaps they shouldn't have bought houses there in the first place.

What a peculiar statement. Do you think different umc people would send their children? Do you think people who can afford 800k homes aren’t likely
To value education? If we wait a few years, more millennials will be ok with a consistently (decades) underperforming school? I’m just not seeing a trend for that. I have seen a trend for increased property values. I suspect the next wave of parents will fight for choice options, just like the families before them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So whats the solution -- should we move to an all lottery model? You rank your top 4 choices and you get what you get?

Eliminate all choice school options in SA. Make everyone go to their neighborhood school.

No, we've got enough equity to move, and plenty of income to afford private, as do all of our neighbors. Force is not likely to help. People who wouldn't send their kids to the neighborhood schools by choice won't go to the neighborhood schools by force. Some that are better integrated and trending in the right direction with test scores might stand a chance, but the ones that have only one SFH neighborhood and then hundreds of units of AH within the walk zone, where over 70% of the students within the physical zone are living below the poverty line, won't ever change unless the neighborhoods themselves change or the boundaries change significantly. The vast majority of UMC professionals will not accept sending their kids to schools without adequate capital, both financial and social. Do I like that this is the truth? No. But it is the truth. It's a fantasy to believe differently. I think most people living in SA want truly diverse schools, and that is why the option schools are so popular. Until they perceive high poverty schools as being just as able to address the needs and abilities of their more affluent children, they will find alternatives. They will because they can. Simple as that.

Agreed. People aren’t understanding that a school like Randolph would not be significantly impacted if every UMC kid suddenly enrolled next year. Maybe it drops from 77 % low income to 69%. That’s not going to be acceptable to most educated parents. As well it shouldn’t.

Then perhaps they shouldn't have bought houses there in the first place.

Or, perhaps they should have moved there, and should advocate for an integrated school that isn't just an SOL cram facility. A high poverty school is a problem, period. We shouldn't, as a county, accept them whether our kids are zoned for them or not. They are not good for anyone, especially poor kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So whats the solution -- should we move to an all lottery model? You rank your top 4 choices and you get what you get?

Eliminate all choice school options in SA. Make everyone go to their neighborhood school.

No, we've got enough equity to move, and plenty of income to afford private, as do all of our neighbors. Force is not likely to help. People who wouldn't send their kids to the neighborhood schools by choice won't go to the neighborhood schools by force. Some that are better integrated and trending in the right direction with test scores might stand a chance, but the ones that have only one SFH neighborhood and then hundreds of units of AH within the walk zone, where over 70% of the students within the physical zone are living below the poverty line, won't ever change unless the neighborhoods themselves change or the boundaries change significantly. The vast majority of UMC professionals will not accept sending their kids to schools without adequate capital, both financial and social. Do I like that this is the truth? No. But it is the truth. It's a fantasy to believe differently. I think most people living in SA want truly diverse schools, and that is why the option schools are so popular. Until they perceive high poverty schools as being just as able to address the needs and abilities of their more affluent children, they will find alternatives. They will because they can. Simple as that.

Thank you for a thoughtful response. Here's the thing: there aren't enough votes in SA to ever make the county go for the lottery model. It's a non-starter. If SA wants to fix this problem, they will likely need to fix it themselves within their confines. You won't convince the overwhelming majority of voters to give up what they've got.