Let’s Talk APS High Schools: 4th one or no?

[Anonymous]

^^^ Dude it’s the only site that isn’t fighting it. So, it’s the best site.
But by all means start your 20 year letter writing campaign to have it switched to Kenmore.

And Wakefield is fVcked no matter what. They have proven time and time again that they have no desire to do right by that school in regards to diversity. They will overload it with more affordable housing no matter what. Lost cause. They have a great facility and wonderful teachers. It’s not all terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read this whole thread, and even commented at one point. Perhaps I missed it, but I have a couple of questions:

1) Does anyone have an information on what the boundaries would look like if there was a 4th high school at CC? Arlington has strong preference for walkability. Given the density involved in parts of the county, what does this mean for the other 3 schools? While I think we need a 4th school, this seems like a recipe for segregation, worse than what we have. When I look at the map, I see some lines being drawn that would either leave out the people very close to the proposed site to balance Wakefield or taking in people N of 50 and turning Wakefield into a high FARM school, which is not a good idea.

2) Lots of people want the school to be the same. I mentioned this upthread - we're looking at a 10 story school. You can probably get the pool, but this campus will never host a football team. It's just not going to happen. I get the idea for an "urban" campus and I support that. Why are we allowing 4,000 kids onto 10 acres when every other school has 30? I know this was mentioned in terms of size, but you could build 6 more high schools of the plan proposed for the CC on the other 3 schools. What is the reasoning behind building this huge school here - are there plans do add seats on this scale at the other 3 schools? Are they giving up fields?

Please set me straight - I want to write letters and support a 4th school, but I want to support a common sense equitable solution. Right now, I mostly hear that S Arl "needs" it and it should be what everyone else has. It's high school - I sort of think there other solutions that haven't been discussed? Why not make all the schools lottery, like other areas and provide ART routes and transit subsidies.

Hi PP, This is PP who lives in that neighborhood. The proposed boundaries and lots of other information can be found on the APS engage site under "career center--follow the journey." There is lots of information there including all the discussions about various options that have been discussed and a walking zone. I'm perfectly fine with a 8 story urban high school. There is a 8 story building right next to the CC building as is, so that would not be something new. I agree with you re: not making Wakefield a high FARMS school. I support drawing boundaries that would balance FARMS rates between Wakefield and the CC site. Maybe that would be splitting south Arlington north-south rather than east-west. The highest income parts of south Arlington are Arlington Ridge/Aurora Highlands area. The CC working group has discussed football quite extensively at the meetings, which I've been following closely. There's room for a practice football field, but not for a stadium. The working group suggests that all Arlington HSs share stadiums. That's fine with me, but don't know how other Arlington families would feel about that. I also don't agree with a 4000+ school. 2500 (similar to WL) would be fine with me, though, so long as those kids have fields, open space, theater, gym, pool, etc.

This is one of the most reasonable posts I've seen about the HS situation. Wakefield will likely end up higher FARMS under any scenario, but it will also have by far the nicest facility of any of the high schools, including the "urban" one. APS needs to stop talking and start actually doing things.

Thank you. I'm late to the party and my kiddos are young, but I am wondering why these school decisions always seem so piecemeal. HS is probably the one area where you could really have meaningful change in terms of diversity and access. I remember that the civic associations around the CC volunteered the site for a 4th comprehensive, but does that mean its the best suited? What happens if its not?

This is neighborhood PP again. I think the thinking at that time was "let's make lemonade out of lemons." I'm not saying it's the best site. But, as others have noted, unless APS/AC starts taking land by eminent domain, it's the only lot its size left in Arlington (other than Kenmore). And I understand that building on Kenmore would require taking some property by eminent domain to get egress and to widen the roads for more traffic. I've heard that AC won't give APS a use permit to build there. You'd have to lobby the AC board to build at Kenmore, since APS's hands are tied on that issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read this whole thread, and even commented at one point. Perhaps I missed it, but I have a couple of questions:

1) Does anyone have an information on what the boundaries would look like if there was a 4th high school at CC? Arlington has strong preference for walkability. Given the density involved in parts of the county, what does this mean for the other 3 schools? While I think we need a 4th school, this seems like a recipe for segregation, worse than what we have. When I look at the map, I see some lines being drawn that would either leave out the people very close to the proposed site to balance Wakefield or taking in people N of 50 and turning Wakefield into a high FARM school, which is not a good idea.

2) Lots of people want the school to be the same. I mentioned this upthread - we're looking at a 10 story school. You can probably get the pool, but this campus will never host a football team. It's just not going to happen. I get the idea for an "urban" campus and I support that. Why are we allowing 4,000 kids onto 10 acres when every other school has 30? I know this was mentioned in terms of size, but you could build 6 more high schools of the plan proposed for the CC on the other 3 schools. What is the reasoning behind building this huge school here - are there plans do add seats on this scale at the other 3 schools? Are they giving up fields?

Please set me straight - I want to write letters and support a 4th school, but I want to support a common sense equitable solution. Right now, I mostly hear that S Arl "needs" it and it should be what everyone else has. It's high school - I sort of think there other solutions that haven't been discussed? Why not make all the schools lottery, like other areas and provide ART routes and transit subsidies.

Hi PP, This is PP who lives in that neighborhood. The proposed boundaries and lots of other information can be found on the APS engage site under "career center--follow the journey." There is lots of information there including all the discussions about various options that have been discussed and a walking zone. I'm perfectly fine with a 8 story urban high school. There is a 8 story building right next to the CC building as is, so that would not be something new. I agree with you re: not making Wakefield a high FARMS school. I support drawing boundaries that would balance FARMS rates between Wakefield and the CC site. Maybe that would be splitting south Arlington north-south rather than east-west. The highest income parts of south Arlington are Arlington Ridge/Aurora Highlands area. The CC working group has discussed football quite extensively at the meetings, which I've been following closely. There's room for a practice football field, but not for a stadium. The working group suggests that all Arlington HSs share stadiums. That's fine with me, but don't know how other Arlington families would feel about that. I also don't agree with a 4000+ school. 2500 (similar to WL) would be fine with me, though, so long as those kids have fields, open space, theater, gym, pool, etc.

This is one of the most reasonable posts I've seen about the HS situation. Wakefield will likely end up higher FARMS under any scenario, but it will also have by far the nicest facility of any of the high schools, including the "urban" one. APS needs to stop talking and start actually doing things.

Thank you. I'm late to the party and my kiddos are young, but I am wondering why these school decisions always seem so piecemeal. HS is probably the one area where you could really have meaningful change in terms of diversity and access. I remember that the civic associations around the CC volunteered the site for a 4th comprehensive, but does that mean its the best suited? What happens if its not?

This is neighborhood PP again. I think the thinking at that time was "let's make lemonade out of lemons." I'm not saying it's the best site. But, as others have noted, unless APS/AC starts taking land by eminent domain, it's the only lot its size left in Arlington (other than Kenmore). And I understand that building on Kenmore would require taking some property by eminent domain to get egress and to widen the roads for more traffic. I've heard that AC won't give APS a use permit to build there. You'd have to lobby the AC board to build at Kenmore, since APS's hands are tied on that issue.

And p.s. If APS just throws more option seats at the CC, I don't expect them to fill up especially with no amenities (even HB has a field, strong arts program with theater etc., which CC would not have). The 3 comprehensive HSs will just have more trailers, and 5-10 years from now, we'll start this process all over again and spend even more money

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read this whole thread, and even commented at one point. Perhaps I missed it, but I have a couple of questions:

1) Does anyone have an information on what the boundaries would look like if there was a 4th high school at CC? Arlington has strong preference for walkability. Given the density involved in parts of the county, what does this mean for the other 3 schools? While I think we need a 4th school, this seems like a recipe for segregation, worse than what we have. When I look at the map, I see some lines being drawn that would either leave out the people very close to the proposed site to balance Wakefield or taking in people N of 50 and turning Wakefield into a high FARM school, which is not a good idea.

2) Lots of people want the school to be the same. I mentioned this upthread - we're looking at a 10 story school. You can probably get the pool, but this campus will never host a football team. It's just not going to happen. I get the idea for an "urban" campus and I support that. Why are we allowing 4,000 kids onto 10 acres when every other school has 30? I know this was mentioned in terms of size, but you could build 6 more high schools of the plan proposed for the CC on the other 3 schools. What is the reasoning behind building this huge school here - are there plans do add seats on this scale at the other 3 schools? Are they giving up fields?

Please set me straight - I want to write letters and support a 4th school, but I want to support a common sense equitable solution. Right now, I mostly hear that S Arl "needs" it and it should be what everyone else has. It's high school - I sort of think there other solutions that haven't been discussed? Why not make all the schools lottery, like other areas and provide ART routes and transit subsidies.

Hi PP, This is PP who lives in that neighborhood. The proposed boundaries and lots of other information can be found on the APS engage site under "career center--follow the journey." There is lots of information there including all the discussions about various options that have been discussed and a walking zone. I'm perfectly fine with a 8 story urban high school. There is a 8 story building right next to the CC building as is, so that would not be something new. I agree with you re: not making Wakefield a high FARMS school. I support drawing boundaries that would balance FARMS rates between Wakefield and the CC site. Maybe that would be splitting south Arlington north-south rather than east-west. The highest income parts of south Arlington are Arlington Ridge/Aurora Highlands area. The CC working group has discussed football quite extensively at the meetings, which I've been following closely. There's room for a practice football field, but not for a stadium. The working group suggests that all Arlington HSs share stadiums. That's fine with me, but don't know how other Arlington families would feel about that. I also don't agree with a 4000+ school. 2500 (similar to WL) would be fine with me, though, so long as those kids have fields, open space, theater, gym, pool, etc.

This is one of the most reasonable posts I've seen about the HS situation. Wakefield will likely end up higher FARMS under any scenario, but it will also have by far the nicest facility of any of the high schools, including the "urban" one. APS needs to stop talking and start actually doing things.

Thank you. I'm late to the party and my kiddos are young, but I am wondering why these school decisions always seem so piecemeal. HS is probably the one area where you could really have meaningful change in terms of diversity and access. I remember that the civic associations around the CC volunteered the site for a 4th comprehensive, but does that mean its the best suited? What happens if its not?

This is neighborhood PP again. I think the thinking at that time was "let's make lemonade out of lemons." I'm not saying it's the best site. But, as others have noted, unless APS/AC starts taking land by eminent domain, it's the only lot its size left in Arlington (other than Kenmore). And I understand that building on Kenmore would require taking some property by eminent domain to get egress and to widen the roads for more traffic. I've heard that AC won't give APS a use permit to build there. You'd have to lobby the AC board to build at Kenmore, since APS's hands are tied on that issue.

And p.s. If APS just throws more option seats at the CC, I don't expect them to fill up especially with no amenities (even HB has a field, strong arts program with theater etc., which CC would not have). The 3 comprehensive HSs will just have more trailers, and 5-10 years from now, we'll start this process all over again and spend even more money

HB isn't going to have a filed in their new location, IIRC. I think they're getting roof top green space though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Dude it’s the only site that isn’t fighting it. So, it’s the best site.
But by all means start your 20 year letter writing campaign to have it switched to Kenmore.

And Wakefield is fVcked no matter what. They have proven time and time again that they have no desire to do right by that school in regards to diversity. They will overload it with more affordable housing no matter what. Lost cause. They have a great facility and wonderful teachers. It’s not all terrible.

So you're getting your neighborhood out of there, right? Smart.

[Anonymous]

The CC site map looks like it scoops up a very dense area in terms of future students, which is good. Just doesn't seem to leave Wakefield in a good place.

But why can't they build new facilities at the other schools? Doesn't need to be a trailer - just build a new wing. CC needs renovation, no question, but the phasing in and work seems like it will take a long time and cost a lot of money. This better be something amazing and not a monument to municipal stupidity.

Other than willingness, what is unique about CC site? Do we have a forgotten facility with historical relevance? I do like the spacing between all the schools if one is built there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The CC site map looks like it scoops up a very dense area in terms of future students, which is good. Just doesn't seem to leave Wakefield in a good place.

But why can't they build new facilities at the other schools? Doesn't need to be a trailer - just build a new wing. CC needs renovation, no question, but the phasing in and work seems like it will take a long time and cost a lot of money. This better be something amazing and not a monument to municipal stupidity.

Other than willingness, what is unique about CC site? Do we have a forgotten facility with historical relevance? I do like the spacing between all the schools if one is built there.

A wing? Have you been to Yorktown? Where would one put such wings? At W&L it would go where the Ed Center is. But now our moronic SB wants to change that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The CC site map looks like it scoops up a very dense area in terms of future students, which is good. Just doesn't seem to leave Wakefield in a good place.

But why can't they build new facilities at the other schools? Doesn't need to be a trailer - just build a new wing. CC needs renovation, no question, but the phasing in and work seems like it will take a long time and cost a lot of money. This better be something amazing and not a monument to municipal stupidity.

Other than willingness, what is unique about CC site? Do we have a forgotten facility with historical relevance? I do like the spacing between all the schools if one is built there.

I don't know about wings at other schools. The Arlington Black Heritage Museum gave a presentation at one of the working group meetings. The area was a camp for black Union soldiers during the civil war. The working group has discussed adding plaques, information, etc. to the school if it is rebuilt. There is also a possibility that the museum could somehow fit in the design, which would be pretty great, IMHO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of parents, including myself, would be pushing harder for the CC site and solutions to the athletics concern if we had confidence that the farms rate at Wakefield would not shoot up even higher than it did in the last boundary change. Recall that the planning units along the western Pike area were added to Wakefield at the last minute. I, and many others, feel that the same type of switcharoo would happen here. And, wealthy areas at Arlington Ridge and Aurora Highlands would fight hard to exit the Wakefield zone.

Personally, I would support a high school at the Kenmore site over CC. I drive Carlin Springs everyday (because I live here) and totally understand the traffic mess - but that needs to be fixed and a new school would force the two counties to fix it. A site at Kenmore has the space and can draw easily from North Arlington to balance the demographics. I know that is somehow off the table, but that doesn't change my mind about it.

The Arlington Heights neighborhood - and any others lobbying for a 4th HS at the Cc site should commit to a plan that equalizes the farms rate between that school and Wakefield. True colors would be on display.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The CC site map looks like it scoops up a very dense area in terms of future students, which is good. Just doesn't seem to leave Wakefield in a good place.

But why can't they build new facilities at the other schools? Doesn't need to be a trailer - just build a new wing. CC needs renovation, no question, but the phasing in and work seems like it will take a long time and cost a lot of money. This better be something amazing and not a monument to municipal stupidity.

Other than willingness, what is unique about CC site? Do we have a forgotten facility with historical relevance? I do like the spacing between all the schools if one is built there.

A wing? Have you been to Yorktown? Where would one put such wings? At W&L it would go where the Ed Center is. But now our moronic SB wants to change that.

...on some of 20 more acres it has than the CC site? I think its reasonable to give up a playing field at Yortkown and W-L to build new wings instead of cramming kids into 10 acres and trying to shoehorn in the amenities. Just wondering if that was considered, or is this whole thing driven by Arlington Height's willingness to host a larger school?

You could put seats in the Ed Center cheaply, but you still have plenty more space than CC has and it will cost a lot less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of parents, including myself, would be pushing harder for the CC site and solutions to the athletics concern if we had confidence that the farms rate at Wakefield would not shoot up even higher than it did in the last boundary change. Recall that the planning units along the western Pike area were added to Wakefield at the last minute. I, and many others, feel that the same type of switcharoo would happen here. And, wealthy areas at Arlington Ridge and Aurora Highlands would fight hard to exit the Wakefield zone.

Personally, I would support a high school at the Kenmore site over CC. I drive Carlin Springs everyday (because I live here) and totally understand the traffic mess - but that needs to be fixed and a new school would force the two counties to fix it. A site at Kenmore has the space and can draw easily from North Arlington to balance the demographics. I know that is somehow off the table, but that doesn't change my mind about it.

The Arlington Heights neighborhood - and any others lobbying for a 4th HS at the Cc site should commit to a plan that equalizes the farms rate between that school and Wakefield. True colors would be on display.

Yes! This. If you look at the proposed map, the walk zones and the areas that aren't grayed out suggest a balanced student body in terms of income and ethnicity, at around 20-30%, if I'm getting the numbers right when looking at the density map at the same time. Wakefield will still have Pentagon/Crystal City and Shirlington to keep it from being too lower income, but I don't think the numbers work out better for them.

[Anonymous]

If CC took 15% of Wakefield’s FRL pop, it would drastically improve that schools demographics.
It doesn’t have to be equal. It might not be realistic to make it equal. If it could possible drop that rate below 40% it would start to help build stronger middle class faith in Wakefield. It’s a great school, and I hate that people talk poorly about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of parents, including myself, would be pushing harder for the CC site and solutions to the athletics concern if we had confidence that the farms rate at Wakefield would not shoot up even higher than it did in the last boundary change. Recall that the planning units along the western Pike area were added to Wakefield at the last minute. I, and many others, feel that the same type of switcharoo would happen here. And, wealthy areas at Arlington Ridge and Aurora Highlands would fight hard to exit the Wakefield zone.

Personally, I would support a high school at the Kenmore site over CC. I drive Carlin Springs everyday (because I live here) and totally understand the traffic mess - but that needs to be fixed and a new school would force the two counties to fix it. A site at Kenmore has the space and can draw easily from North Arlington to balance the demographics. I know that is somehow off the table, but that doesn't change my mind about it.

The Arlington Heights neighborhood - and any others lobbying for a 4th HS at the Cc site should commit to a plan that equalizes the farms rate between that school and Wakefield. True colors would be on display.

Yes! This. If you look at the proposed map, the walk zones and the areas that aren't grayed out suggest a balanced student body in terms of income and ethnicity, at around 20-30%, if I'm getting the numbers right when looking at the density map at the same time. Wakefield will still have Pentagon/Crystal City and Shirlington to keep it from being too lower income, but I don't think the numbers work out better for them.

I would be concerned that the areas currently zoned Oakridge would go to the CC. That George Mason would be the dividing line between 50 and the Pike, and then South of the Pike everything W of Four Mile run would go Wakefield and E would go CC. That would be a disaster for Wakefield. Just because some areas aren't in the walk zone, I don't know that they won't be pulled into the boundary. If Nauck goes to the CC, they will have to take all of Oakridge along with it for boundary contiguity. If there can be some assurances that that won't happen, I would feel a lot better about this location for a 4th HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read this whole thread, and even commented at one point. Perhaps I missed it, but I have a couple of questions:

1) Does anyone have an information on what the boundaries would look like if there was a 4th high school at CC? Arlington has strong preference for walkability. Given the density involved in parts of the county, what does this mean for the other 3 schools? While I think we need a 4th school, this seems like a recipe for segregation, worse than what we have. When I look at the map, I see some lines being drawn that would either leave out the people very close to the proposed site to balance Wakefield or taking in people N of 50 and turning Wakefield into a high FARM school, which is not a good idea.

2) Lots of people want the school to be the same. I mentioned this upthread - we're looking at a 10 story school. You can probably get the pool, but this campus will never host a football team. It's just not going to happen. I get the idea for an "urban" campus and I support that. Why are we allowing 4,000 kids onto 10 acres when every other school has 30? I know this was mentioned in terms of size, but you could build 6 more high schools of the plan proposed for the CC on the other 3 schools. What is the reasoning behind building this huge school here - are there plans do add seats on this scale at the other 3 schools? Are they giving up fields?

Please set me straight - I want to write letters and support a 4th school, but I want to support a common sense equitable solution. Right now, I mostly hear that S Arl "needs" it and it should be what everyone else has. It's high school - I sort of think there other solutions that haven't been discussed? Why not make all the schools lottery, like other areas and provide ART routes and transit subsidies.

Hi PP, This is PP who lives in that neighborhood. The proposed boundaries and lots of other information can be found on the APS engage site under "career center--follow the journey." There is lots of information there including all the discussions about various options that have been discussed and a walking zone. I'm perfectly fine with a 8 story urban high school. There is a 8 story building right next to the CC building as is, so that would not be something new. I agree with you re: not making Wakefield a high FARMS school. I support drawing boundaries that would balance FARMS rates between Wakefield and the CC site. Maybe that would be splitting south Arlington north-south rather than east-west. The highest income parts of south Arlington are Arlington Ridge/Aurora Highlands area. The CC working group has discussed football quite extensively at the meetings, which I've been following closely. There's room for a practice football field, but not for a stadium. The working group suggests that all Arlington HSs share stadiums. That's fine with me, but don't know how other Arlington families would feel about that. I also don't agree with a 4000+ school. 2500 (similar to WL) would be fine with me, though, so long as those kids have fields, open space, theater, gym, pool, etc.

This is one of the most reasonable posts I've seen about the HS situation. Wakefield will likely end up higher FARMS under any scenario, but it will also have by far the nicest facility of any of the high schools, including the "urban" one. APS needs to stop talking and start actually doing things.

Thank you. I'm late to the party and my kiddos are young, but I am wondering why these school decisions always seem so piecemeal. HS is probably the one area where you could really have meaningful change in terms of diversity and access. I remember that the civic associations around the CC volunteered the site for a 4th comprehensive, but does that mean its the best suited? What happens if its not?

This is neighborhood PP again. I think the thinking at that time was "let's make lemonade out of lemons." I'm not saying it's the best site. But, as others have noted, unless APS/AC starts taking land by eminent domain, it's the only lot its size left in Arlington (other than Kenmore). And I understand that building on Kenmore would require taking some property by eminent domain to get egress and to widen the roads for more traffic. I've heard that AC won't give APS a use permit to build there. You'd have to lobby the AC board to build at Kenmore, since APS's hands are tied on that issue.

And p.s. If APS just throws more option seats at the CC, I don't expect them to fill up especially with no amenities (even HB has a field, strong arts program with theater etc., which CC would not have). The 3 comprehensive HSs will just have more trailers, and 5-10 years from now, we'll start this process all over again and spend even more money

HB isn't going to have a filed in their new location, IIRC. I think they're getting roof top green space though.

They are getting several green spaces on their many terraced rooftops, plenty of space for their only 700 something kids total. You should look at the design, it's beautiful, really breathtaking; designed by top internationally renowned architects. They also get all the bells and whistles for interior spaces.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of parents, including myself, would be pushing harder for the CC site and solutions to the athletics concern if we had confidence that the farms rate at Wakefield would not shoot up even higher than it did in the last boundary change. Recall that the planning units along the western Pike area were added to Wakefield at the last minute. I, and many others, feel that the same type of switcharoo would happen here. And, wealthy areas at Arlington Ridge and Aurora Highlands would fight hard to exit the Wakefield zone.

Personally, I would support a high school at the Kenmore site over CC. I drive Carlin Springs everyday (because I live here) and totally understand the traffic mess - but that needs to be fixed and a new school would force the two counties to fix it. A site at Kenmore has the space and can draw easily from North Arlington to balance the demographics. I know that is somehow off the table, but that doesn't change my mind about it.

The Arlington Heights neighborhood - and any others lobbying for a 4th HS at the Cc site should commit to a plan that equalizes the farms rate between that school and Wakefield. True colors would be on display.

Yes! This. If you look at the proposed map, the walk zones and the areas that aren't grayed out suggest a balanced student body in terms of income and ethnicity, at around 20-30%, if I'm getting the numbers right when looking at the density map at the same time. Wakefield will still have Pentagon/Crystal City and Shirlington to keep it from being too lower income, but I don't think the numbers work out better for them.

I actually think they could, it really depends. TJ is not fairing well after the last boundary redraw with free lunch nearly the same as Kenmore (high!). So I think that both Wakefield, and the new CC high school have reasons to want to balance diversity between them, and perhaps it would be possible to draw it down to 33% for both. Wouldn't that be ideal and preferable to the status quo?