Let’s Talk APS High Schools: 4th one or no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a bunch of people competing for a scarce resource that cannot be evenly distributed among everyone. It's basic human psychology that it will get ugly, that's not specific to Arlington.

Not aware of any other local school system that's shot itself in the foot through poor planning to the same degree as APS, but carry on.

APS has struggled with a county board that continues to approved increasing- and high-density residential development leading to a skyrocketing student population while refusing to make additional contributions to APS's capital infrastructure investment. That's the real problem here.

This x100. It’s such a disconnect! Arlington’s resources are NOT scarce. We have the GDP of a small country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a bunch of people competing for a scarce resource that cannot be evenly distributed among everyone. It's basic human psychology that it will get ugly, that's not specific to Arlington.

Not aware of any other local school system that's shot itself in the foot through poor planning to the same degree as APS, but carry on.

APS has struggled with a county board that continues to approved increasing- and high-density residential development leading to a skyrocketing student population while refusing to make additional contributions to APS's capital infrastructure investment. That's the real problem here.

+1000 Every one of these projects should require contributions to school construction funds as condition of approval.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a bunch of people competing for a scarce resource that cannot be evenly distributed among everyone. It's basic human psychology that it will get ugly, that's not specific to Arlington.

Not aware of any other local school system that's shot itself in the foot through poor planning to the same degree as APS, but carry on.

APS has struggled with a county board that continues to approved increasing- and high-density residential development leading to a skyrocketing student population while refusing to make additional contributions to APS's capital infrastructure investment. That's the real problem here.

+1000 Every one of these projects should require contributions to school construction funds as condition of approval.

I agree!! They should add this to their procedure.

[Anonymous]

This has been suggested many times over the years, but the CB keeps rejecting it because they’re concerned it will discourage development, which would mean not expanding the tax base enough to support their vanity projects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This has been suggested many times over the years, but the CB keeps rejecting it because they’re concerned it will discourage development, which would mean not expanding the tax base enough to support their vanity projects.

Actually, they claim that they are not allowed to per Richmond and our Dillon Rule state. However, we can and do collect "community benefits" from developers. The CB just doesn't want to find out that money toward schools may be considered "community benefit." So we'll keep taking our sidewalks and undergrounded utilities and artwork for the block surrounding the individual developments instead. I think it's time we just collect "community benefits" in the form of cash that the County can allocate however it needs to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This has been suggested many times over the years, but the CB keeps rejecting it because they’re concerned it will discourage development, which would mean not expanding the tax base enough to support their vanity projects.

Tax base? Their high density rentals are not creating a tax base! Meanwhile, their actual tax base is thinking of relocating to another county, if they can't build enough seats, and can't manage to build a 4th high school within the next 4 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has been suggested many times over the years, but the CB keeps rejecting it because they’re concerned it will discourage development, which would mean not expanding the tax base enough to support their vanity projects.

Actually, they claim that they are not allowed to per Richmond and our Dillon Rule state. However, we can and do collect "community benefits" from developers. The CB just doesn't want to find out that money toward schools may be considered "community benefit." So we'll keep taking our sidewalks and undergrounded utilities and artwork for the block surrounding the individual developments instead. I think it's time we just collect "community benefits" in the form of cash that the County can allocate however it needs to.

Don't forget the AHIF. The "benefit" that keeps bringing more residents whose kids need seats in schools, plus many other supports. It's the gift that keeps on giving.

[Anonymous]

And, the ahif funding builds developments that depress surrounding property values, further lowering county tax revenue. Can you imagine how much money the county would collect if south Arlington property values were more on par with north Arlington?

[Anonymous]

I have read this whole thread, and even commented at one point. Perhaps I missed it, but I have a couple of questions:

1) Does anyone have an information on what the boundaries would look like if there was a 4th high school at CC? Arlington has strong preference for walkability. Given the density involved in parts of the county, what does this mean for the other 3 schools? While I think we need a 4th school, this seems like a recipe for segregation, worse than what we have. When I look at the map, I see some lines being drawn that would either leave out the people very close to the proposed site to balance Wakefield or taking in people N of 50 and turning Wakefield into a high FARM school, which is not a good idea.

2) Lots of people want the school to be the same. I mentioned this upthread - we're looking at a 10 story school. You can probably get the pool, but this campus will never host a football team. It's just not going to happen. I get the idea for an "urban" campus and I support that. Why are we allowing 4,000 kids onto 10 acres when every other school has 30? I know this was mentioned in terms of size, but you could build 6 more high schools of the plan proposed for the CC on the other 3 schools. What is the reasoning behind building this huge school here - are there plans do add seats on this scale at the other 3 schools? Are they giving up fields?

Please set me straight - I want to write letters and support a 4th school, but I want to support a common sense equitable solution. Right now, I mostly hear that S Arl "needs" it and it should be what everyone else has. It's high school - I sort of think there other solutions that haven't been discussed? Why not make all the schools lottery, like other areas and provide ART routes and transit subsidies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have read this whole thread, and even commented at one point. Perhaps I missed it, but I have a couple of questions:

1) Does anyone have an information on what the boundaries would look like if there was a 4th high school at CC? Arlington has strong preference for walkability. Given the density involved in parts of the county, what does this mean for the other 3 schools? While I think we need a 4th school, this seems like a recipe for segregation, worse than what we have. When I look at the map, I see some lines being drawn that would either leave out the people very close to the proposed site to balance Wakefield or taking in people N of 50 and turning Wakefield into a high FARM school, which is not a good idea.

2) Lots of people want the school to be the same. I mentioned this upthread - we're looking at a 10 story school. You can probably get the pool, but this campus will never host a football team. It's just not going to happen. I get the idea for an "urban" campus and I support that. Why are we allowing 4,000 kids onto 10 acres when every other school has 30? I know this was mentioned in terms of size, but you could build 6 more high schools of the plan proposed for the CC on the other 3 schools. What is the reasoning behind building this huge school here - are there plans do add seats on this scale at the other 3 schools? Are they giving up fields?

Please set me straight - I want to write letters and support a 4th school, but I want to support a common sense equitable solution. Right now, I mostly hear that S Arl "needs" it and it should be what everyone else has. It's high school - I sort of think there other solutions that haven't been discussed? Why not make all the schools lottery, like other areas and provide ART routes and transit subsidies.

Hi PP, This is PP who lives in that neighborhood. The proposed boundaries and lots of other information can be found on the APS engage site under "career center--follow the journey." There is lots of information there including all the discussions about various options that have been discussed and a walking zone. I'm perfectly fine with a 8 story urban high school. There is a 8 story building right next to the CC building as is, so that would not be something new. I agree with you re: not making Wakefield a high FARMS school. I support drawing boundaries that would balance FARMS rates between Wakefield and the CC site. Maybe that would be splitting south Arlington north-south rather than east-west. The highest income parts of south Arlington are Arlington Ridge/Aurora Highlands area. The CC working group has discussed football quite extensively at the meetings, which I've been following closely. There's room for a practice football field, but not for a stadium. The working group suggests that all Arlington HSs share stadiums. That's fine with me, but don't know how other Arlington families would feel about that. I also don't agree with a 4000+ school. 2500 (similar to WL) would be fine with me, though, so long as those kids have fields, open space, theater, gym, pool, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read this whole thread, and even commented at one point. Perhaps I missed it, but I have a couple of questions:

1) Does anyone have an information on what the boundaries would look like if there was a 4th high school at CC? Arlington has strong preference for walkability. Given the density involved in parts of the county, what does this mean for the other 3 schools? While I think we need a 4th school, this seems like a recipe for segregation, worse than what we have. When I look at the map, I see some lines being drawn that would either leave out the people very close to the proposed site to balance Wakefield or taking in people N of 50 and turning Wakefield into a high FARM school, which is not a good idea.

2) Lots of people want the school to be the same. I mentioned this upthread - we're looking at a 10 story school. You can probably get the pool, but this campus will never host a football team. It's just not going to happen. I get the idea for an "urban" campus and I support that. Why are we allowing 4,000 kids onto 10 acres when every other school has 30? I know this was mentioned in terms of size, but you could build 6 more high schools of the plan proposed for the CC on the other 3 schools. What is the reasoning behind building this huge school here - are there plans do add seats on this scale at the other 3 schools? Are they giving up fields?

Please set me straight - I want to write letters and support a 4th school, but I want to support a common sense equitable solution. Right now, I mostly hear that S Arl "needs" it and it should be what everyone else has. It's high school - I sort of think there other solutions that haven't been discussed? Why not make all the schools lottery, like other areas and provide ART routes and transit subsidies.

Hi PP, This is PP who lives in that neighborhood. The proposed boundaries and lots of other information can be found on the APS engage site under "career center--follow the journey." There is lots of information there including all the discussions about various options that have been discussed and a walking zone. I'm perfectly fine with a 8 story urban high school. There is a 8 story building right next to the CC building as is, so that would not be something new. I agree with you re: not making Wakefield a high FARMS school. I support drawing boundaries that would balance FARMS rates between Wakefield and the CC site. Maybe that would be splitting south Arlington north-south rather than east-west. The highest income parts of south Arlington are Arlington Ridge/Aurora Highlands area. The CC working group has discussed football quite extensively at the meetings, which I've been following closely. There's room for a practice football field, but not for a stadium. The working group suggests that all Arlington HSs share stadiums. That's fine with me, but don't know how other Arlington families would feel about that. I also don't agree with a 4000+ school. 2500 (similar to WL) would be fine with me, though, so long as those kids have fields, open space, theater, gym, pool, etc.

This is one of the most reasonable posts I've seen about the HS situation. Wakefield will likely end up higher FARMS under any scenario, but it will also have by far the nicest facility of any of the high schools, including the "urban" one. APS needs to stop talking and start actually doing things.

[Anonymous]

I'm a bit confused by why everyone is assuming that a football stadium has to be at the high school. I grew up in a town where the athletic facilities weren't at the high school. There was a field house and stadium several miles away. The school ran a shuttle bus on days when there were after school practices. Not a free solution, but not impossible either.

[Anonymous]

I think a lot of parents, including myself, would be pushing harder for the CC site and solutions to the athletics concern if we had confidence that the farms rate at Wakefield would not shoot up even higher than it did in the last boundary change. Recall that the planning units along the western Pike area were added to Wakefield at the last minute. I, and many others, feel that the same type of switcharoo would happen here. And, wealthy areas at Arlington Ridge and Aurora Highlands would fight hard to exit the Wakefield zone.

Personally, I would support a high school at the Kenmore site over CC. I drive Carlin Springs everyday (because I live here) and totally understand the traffic mess - but that needs to be fixed and a new school would force the two counties to fix it. A site at Kenmore has the space and can draw easily from North Arlington to balance the demographics. I know that is somehow off the table, but that doesn't change my mind about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read this whole thread, and even commented at one point. Perhaps I missed it, but I have a couple of questions:

1) Does anyone have an information on what the boundaries would look like if there was a 4th high school at CC? Arlington has strong preference for walkability. Given the density involved in parts of the county, what does this mean for the other 3 schools? While I think we need a 4th school, this seems like a recipe for segregation, worse than what we have. When I look at the map, I see some lines being drawn that would either leave out the people very close to the proposed site to balance Wakefield or taking in people N of 50 and turning Wakefield into a high FARM school, which is not a good idea.

2) Lots of people want the school to be the same. I mentioned this upthread - we're looking at a 10 story school. You can probably get the pool, but this campus will never host a football team. It's just not going to happen. I get the idea for an "urban" campus and I support that. Why are we allowing 4,000 kids onto 10 acres when every other school has 30? I know this was mentioned in terms of size, but you could build 6 more high schools of the plan proposed for the CC on the other 3 schools. What is the reasoning behind building this huge school here - are there plans do add seats on this scale at the other 3 schools? Are they giving up fields?

Please set me straight - I want to write letters and support a 4th school, but I want to support a common sense equitable solution. Right now, I mostly hear that S Arl "needs" it and it should be what everyone else has. It's high school - I sort of think there other solutions that haven't been discussed? Why not make all the schools lottery, like other areas and provide ART routes and transit subsidies.

Hi PP, This is PP who lives in that neighborhood. The proposed boundaries and lots of other information can be found on the APS engage site under "career center--follow the journey." There is lots of information there including all the discussions about various options that have been discussed and a walking zone. I'm perfectly fine with a 8 story urban high school. There is a 8 story building right next to the CC building as is, so that would not be something new. I agree with you re: not making Wakefield a high FARMS school. I support drawing boundaries that would balance FARMS rates between Wakefield and the CC site. Maybe that would be splitting south Arlington north-south rather than east-west. The highest income parts of south Arlington are Arlington Ridge/Aurora Highlands area. The CC working group has discussed football quite extensively at the meetings, which I've been following closely. There's room for a practice football field, but not for a stadium. The working group suggests that all Arlington HSs share stadiums. That's fine with me, but don't know how other Arlington families would feel about that. I also don't agree with a 4000+ school. 2500 (similar to WL) would be fine with me, though, so long as those kids have fields, open space, theater, gym, pool, etc.

Aha! Thank you. That looks better than I imagined, but not great. I'm concerned there's no great way to do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read this whole thread, and even commented at one point. Perhaps I missed it, but I have a couple of questions:

1) Does anyone have an information on what the boundaries would look like if there was a 4th high school at CC? Arlington has strong preference for walkability. Given the density involved in parts of the county, what does this mean for the other 3 schools? While I think we need a 4th school, this seems like a recipe for segregation, worse than what we have. When I look at the map, I see some lines being drawn that would either leave out the people very close to the proposed site to balance Wakefield or taking in people N of 50 and turning Wakefield into a high FARM school, which is not a good idea.

2) Lots of people want the school to be the same. I mentioned this upthread - we're looking at a 10 story school. You can probably get the pool, but this campus will never host a football team. It's just not going to happen. I get the idea for an "urban" campus and I support that. Why are we allowing 4,000 kids onto 10 acres when every other school has 30? I know this was mentioned in terms of size, but you could build 6 more high schools of the plan proposed for the CC on the other 3 schools. What is the reasoning behind building this huge school here - are there plans do add seats on this scale at the other 3 schools? Are they giving up fields?

Please set me straight - I want to write letters and support a 4th school, but I want to support a common sense equitable solution. Right now, I mostly hear that S Arl "needs" it and it should be what everyone else has. It's high school - I sort of think there other solutions that haven't been discussed? Why not make all the schools lottery, like other areas and provide ART routes and transit subsidies.

Hi PP, This is PP who lives in that neighborhood. The proposed boundaries and lots of other information can be found on the APS engage site under "career center--follow the journey." There is lots of information there including all the discussions about various options that have been discussed and a walking zone. I'm perfectly fine with a 8 story urban high school. There is a 8 story building right next to the CC building as is, so that would not be something new. I agree with you re: not making Wakefield a high FARMS school. I support drawing boundaries that would balance FARMS rates between Wakefield and the CC site. Maybe that would be splitting south Arlington north-south rather than east-west. The highest income parts of south Arlington are Arlington Ridge/Aurora Highlands area. The CC working group has discussed football quite extensively at the meetings, which I've been following closely. There's room for a practice football field, but not for a stadium. The working group suggests that all Arlington HSs share stadiums. That's fine with me, but don't know how other Arlington families would feel about that. I also don't agree with a 4000+ school. 2500 (similar to WL) would be fine with me, though, so long as those kids have fields, open space, theater, gym, pool, etc.

This is one of the most reasonable posts I've seen about the HS situation. Wakefield will likely end up higher FARMS under any scenario, but it will also have by far the nicest facility of any of the high schools, including the "urban" one. APS needs to stop talking and start actually doing things.

Thank you. I'm late to the party and my kiddos are young, but I am wondering why these school decisions always seem so piecemeal. HS is probably the one area where you could really have meaningful change in terms of diversity and access. I remember that the civic associations around the CC volunteered the site for a 4th comprehensive, but does that mean its the best suited? What happens if its not?