Do atheists have souls?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not worked up . . .

only pointing out the flaws in religion

If a god loves all and is all good, why would this god deny a good-hearted atheist a space in make-believe heaven?

And where is this in the bible? or - better yet, in another primary source?

And I'm saying God is fulfilling the deep conviction of the atheist. You don't want any part of God or heaven, you expect to close your eyes for eternity and blink out? OK, well then go for it. It wouldn't be painful or sad or disappointing, just nothingness. So what's the problem? And they wouldn't have to deal with all those high and mighty religious people either.

It's the perfect ending.

You don't find your posting the least bit ironic?

How so? After death the atheist experiences exactly what he/she professes it will be. We're not talking about someone who is agnostic - who isn't certain either way.

The high and mighty part? Yeah, maybe.

It may be the perfect ending, but it's not the one that the Christian God had in mind. He promises eternal suffering for those who don't believe in him, not eternal slumber.

Oh yes? Where does it say that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not worked up . . .

only pointing out the flaws in religion

If a god loves all and is all good, why would this god deny a good-hearted atheist a space in make-believe heaven?

And where is this in the bible? or - better yet, in another primary source?

And I'm saying God is fulfilling the deep conviction of the atheist. You don't want any part of God or heaven, you expect to close your eyes for eternity and blink out? OK, well then go for it. It wouldn't be painful or sad or disappointing, just nothingness. So what's the problem? And they wouldn't have to deal with all those high and mighty religious people either.

It's the perfect ending.

You don't find your posting the least bit ironic?

How so? After death the atheist experiences exactly what he/she professes it will be. We're not talking about someone who is agnostic - who isn't certain either way.

The high and mighty part? Yeah, maybe.

It may be the perfect ending, but it's not the one that the Christian God had in mind. He promises eternal suffering for those who don't believe in him, not eternal slumber.

Sure the Christian God, as you put it, wants everyone to want to be with Him, but obviously that's not the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not worked up . . .

only pointing out the flaws in religion

If a god loves all and is all good, why would this god deny a good-hearted atheist a space in make-believe heaven?

And where is this in the bible? or - better yet, in another primary source?

And I'm saying God is fulfilling the deep conviction of the atheist. You don't want any part of God or heaven, you expect to close your eyes for eternity and blink out? OK, well then go for it. It wouldn't be painful or sad or disappointing, just nothingness. So what's the problem? And they wouldn't have to deal with all those high and mighty religious people either.

It's the perfect ending.

You don't find your posting the least bit ironic?

How so? After death the atheist experiences exactly what he/she professes it will be. We're not talking about someone who is agnostic - who isn't certain either way.

The high and mighty part? Yeah, maybe.

It may be the perfect ending, but it's not the one that the Christian God had in mind. He promises eternal suffering for those who don't believe in him, not eternal slumber.

Oh yes? Where does it say that?

It's a pretty consistent message in the New Testament. Try starting with John 5 and John 8, and Revelation 20. If you read the Bible, you can't miss it. To the post above, God does want everyone with him, which is why he sent his Son to die for everyone. Those who reject Christ do so of their own will. God has already made provision for forgiveness of your sins. If you don't accept that, that's not on God. Those who stand before God in the judgment without Christ will not be able to utter an excuse. This is very serious business, which is why true Christians spend so much time saying things people don't like to hear, because we actually do care what happens to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not worked up . . .

only pointing out the flaws in religion

If a god loves all and is all good, why would this god deny a good-hearted atheist a space in make-believe heaven?

And where is this in the bible? or - better yet, in another primary source?

And I'm saying God is fulfilling the deep conviction of the atheist. You don't want any part of God or heaven, you expect to close your eyes for eternity and blink out? OK, well then go for it. It wouldn't be painful or sad or disappointing, just nothingness. So what's the problem? And they wouldn't have to deal with all those high and mighty religious people either.

It's the perfect ending.

You don't find your posting the least bit ironic?

How so? After death the atheist experiences exactly what he/she professes it will be. We're not talking about someone who is agnostic - who isn't certain either way.

The high and mighty part? Yeah, maybe.

So God - who supposedly created all of us - would gladly dismiss an atheist - a good one (let's be clear on that)?

My point is this - if people were truly God's people, they wouldn't dismiss an atheist who was a humanitarian or was simply a good father, for example, raising wonderful kids.

So high and might IS mighty appropriate!

[Anonymous]

Am I the only one thatis truly horrified by the human sacrifice theme that runs through the Bible? God created us, didn't like how we turned out, created a perfect one of us, and then set him up as human sacrifice? And that is supposed to be inspiring? It makes absolutely no sense.

And souls? That also makes no sense at all. Dualism is something you are supposed to get over as you mature. There can't be this many people out there that don't understand how the brain functions, there just can't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one thatis truly horrified by the human sacrifice theme that runs through the Bible? God created us, didn't like how we turned out, created a perfect one of us, and then set him up as human sacrifice? And that is supposed to be inspiring? It makes absolutely no sense.

And souls? That also makes no sense at all. Dualism is something you are supposed to get over as you mature. There can't be this many people out there that don't understand how the brain functions, there just can't.

I'm horrified too, but honestly, it took me a while to even notice it. As a kid, I wasn't paying close attention and the whole society seemed to focus on God's love and how wonderful it was to be offered it and to have the promise of eternal life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one thatis truly horrified by the human sacrifice theme that runs through the Bible? God created us, didn't like how we turned out, created a perfect one of us, and then set him up as human sacrifice? And that is supposed to be inspiring? It makes absolutely no sense.

And souls? That also makes no sense at all. Dualism is something you are supposed to get over as you mature. There can't be this many people out there that don't understand how the brain functions, there just can't.

No, no, no. This is not Christian teaching. God did not create a perfect one of us. God came down Himself, in the form of a man, to be the sacrifice for us so that we could live eternally with Him. Does this sound gruesome, or extreme? I suppose it does, but that is how serious our sin is. The Bible teaches the wages of sin is death. We sin, we die (eventually). This is why God came down Himself, in the person of Jesus Christ, to die that death so you don't have to. Those who say God is loving so he wouldn't allow us to go to Hell are missing the point. His love is demonstrated by Christ dying on the cross so that you do not have to die eternally. But your sin is a weighty, dire matter to God. It cannot just be brushed aside. God is love, and He is also holy. He will not allow unforgiven sin into Heaven, and He will not forgive those who reject His offer of forgiveness through Christ. Christ is God, not a created man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one thatis truly horrified by the human sacrifice theme that runs through the Bible? God created us, didn't like how we turned out, created a perfect one of us, and then set him up as human sacrifice? And that is supposed to be inspiring? It makes absolutely no sense.

And souls? That also makes no sense at all. Dualism is something you are supposed to get over as you mature. There can't be this many people out there that don't understand how the brain functions, there just can't.

I think the Bible has been translated and rewritten and translated and misinterpreted so many times that we miss the forrest because of the trees. The Christian Bible is full of beautiful metaphors, poetry, and parables. It's pretty obvious that most of it was never meant to be interpreted literally. There is no "Hell" mentioned in the Bible. The PPs who keep posting about eternal damnation and hell need to spend a little time researching the words Sheol, Hades and Gehenna. *Hint - None of them mean "Hell". At least not as Christians define it. The Bible we read today was translated and pieced together by powerful leaders who had every reason to want people to live in fear.

God (Creator, I Am, Love, Universe, Light, Allah, ...whatever your word for your Creator is) created us in perfect love. God is love and is incapable of creating anything but good. We have free will. Humans make mistakes, sometimes horrible mistakes. But we were born good. Jesus came into our world as an example of God's love. He was the divine expression of God here on earth. And we are supposed to try to be the same. That's the goal of Christianity - to become "Christ-like". Jesus' death was meant to demonstrate absolute pure, sacrificial love. God didn't force him to give up his life - Jesus chose that path. It's inspiring in that even when faced with torture and certain death, Jesus remained centered in God. He retained that God consciousness or enlightenment or awakeness....or whatever term you want to use. God used Jesus to communicate His love for us. How else could he have done that?

Do you really think Johah was swallowed by a whale? I think most people see that as a story of faith very much the same way we teach our children the story of the boy who cried wolf. Jesus spoke in parables all the time. Genesis is full of beautiful symbolic poetry about the creation of our world. The stories in the Bible makes sense when they are read with an awareness of cultural and historical context. And most importantly, when they are read using a little logic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not worked up . . .

only pointing out the flaws in religion

If a god loves all and is all good, why would this god deny a good-hearted atheist a space in make-believe heaven?

And where is this in the bible? or - better yet, in another primary source?

And I'm saying God is fulfilling the deep conviction of the atheist. You don't want any part of God or heaven, you expect to close your eyes for eternity and blink out? OK, well then go for it. It wouldn't be painful or sad or disappointing, just nothingness. So what's the problem? And they wouldn't have to deal with all those high and mighty religious people either.

It's the perfect ending.

You don't find your posting the least bit ironic?

How so? After death the atheist experiences exactly what he/she professes it will be. We're not talking about someone who is agnostic - who isn't certain either way.

The high and mighty part? Yeah, maybe.

So God - who supposedly created all of us - would gladly dismiss an atheist - a good one (let's be clear on that)?

My point is this - if people were truly God's people, they wouldn't dismiss an atheist who was a humanitarian or was simply a good father, for example, raising wonderful kids.

So high and might IS mighty appropriate!

So do you want me to agree with your atheist theory that you end in nothingness or do you want me to fight for your soul? Pick a lane....

[Anonymous]

^I don't know what answer you're looking for. You tell me that you will not go to heaven when you die. I say fine. And then you get upset. WHA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one thatis truly horrified by the human sacrifice theme that runs through the Bible? God created us, didn't like how we turned out, created a perfect one of us, and then set him up as human sacrifice? And that is supposed to be inspiring? It makes absolutely no sense.

And souls? That also makes no sense at all. Dualism is something you are supposed to get over as you mature. There can't be this many people out there that don't understand how the brain functions, there just can't.

I think the Bible has been translated and rewritten and translated and misinterpreted so many times that we miss the forrest because of the trees. The Christian Bible is full of beautiful metaphors, poetry, and parables. It's pretty obvious that most of it was never meant to be interpreted literally. There is no "Hell" mentioned in the Bible. The PPs who keep posting about eternal damnation and hell need to spend a little time researching the words Sheol, Hades and Gehenna. *Hint - None of them mean "Hell". At least not as Christians define it. The Bible we read today was translated and pieced together by powerful leaders who had every reason to want people to live in fear.

God (Creator, I Am, Love, Universe, Light, Allah, ...whatever your word for your Creator is) created us in perfect love. God is love and is incapable of creating anything but good. We have free will. Humans make mistakes, sometimes horrible mistakes. But we were born good. Jesus came into our world as an example of God's love. He was the divine expression of God here on earth. And we are supposed to try to be the same. That's the goal of Christianity - to become "Christ-like". Jesus' death was meant to demonstrate absolute pure, sacrificial love. God didn't force him to give up his life - Jesus chose that path. It's inspiring in that even when faced with torture and certain death, Jesus remained centered in God. He retained that God consciousness or enlightenment or awakeness....or whatever term you want to use. God used Jesus to communicate His love for us. How else could he have done that?

Do you really think Johah was swallowed by a whale? I think most people see that as a story of faith very much the same way we teach our children the story of the boy who cried wolf. Jesus spoke in parables all the time. Genesis is full of beautiful symbolic poetry about the creation of our world. The stories in the Bible makes sense when they are read with an awareness of cultural and historical context. And most importantly, when they are read using a little logic.

Yes, because governments the world over just LOVE practicing Christians. No persecution there ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one thatis truly horrified by the human sacrifice theme that runs through the Bible? God created us, didn't like how we turned out, created a perfect one of us, and then set him up as human sacrifice? And that is supposed to be inspiring? It makes absolutely no sense.

And souls? That also makes no sense at all. Dualism is something you are supposed to get over as you mature. There can't be this many people out there that don't understand how the brain functions, there just can't.

No, no, no. This is not Christian teaching. God did not create a perfect one of us. God came down Himself, in the form of a man, to be the sacrifice for us so that we could live eternally with Him. Does this sound gruesome, or extreme? I suppose it does, but that is how serious our sin is. The Bible teaches the wages of sin is death. We sin, we die (eventually). This is why God came down Himself, in the person of Jesus Christ, to die that death so you don't have to. Those who say God is loving so he wouldn't allow us to go to Hell are missing the point. His love is demonstrated by Christ dying on the cross so that you do not have to die eternally. But your sin is a weighty, dire matter to God. It cannot just be brushed aside. God is love, and He is also holy. He will not allow unforgiven sin into Heaven, and He will not forgive those who reject His offer of forgiveness through Christ. Christ is God, not a created man.

I think "the perfect one" pp was referring to is the the same thing you're referring to -- god himself, in the form of man, god incarnate - Jesus, his son, sent here to be sacrificed

So as pp was saying, this "God" made all these gruesome rules and did all this stuff that we are supposed to believe in and be grateful for - or we suffer eternally -- according to this extremely weird, masochistic sounding god. (to pp and others who don't believe in him)

Somewhere in there is a given that this God exists and that humans should be grateful that he gave us this chance at the form of redemption that he devised just for us because he loves us so much. Non-believers don't accept that given. To me it sounds neither plausible nor attractive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one thatis truly horrified by the human sacrifice theme that runs through the Bible? God created us, didn't like how we turned out, created a perfect one of us, and then set him up as human sacrifice? And that is supposed to be inspiring? It makes absolutely no sense.

And souls? That also makes no sense at all. Dualism is something you are supposed to get over as you mature. There can't be this many people out there that don't understand how the brain functions, there just can't.

I think the Bible has been translated and rewritten and translated and misinterpreted so many times that we miss the forrest because of the trees. The Christian Bible is full of beautiful metaphors, poetry, and parables. It's pretty obvious that most of it was never meant to be interpreted literally. There is no "Hell" mentioned in the Bible. The PPs who keep posting about eternal damnation and hell need to spend a little time researching the words Sheol, Hades and Gehenna. *Hint - None of them mean "Hell". At least not as Christians define it. The Bible we read today was translated and pieced together by powerful leaders who had every reason to want people to live in fear.

God (Creator, I Am, Love, Universe, Light, Allah, ...whatever your word for your Creator is) created us in perfect love. God is love and is incapable of creating anything but good. We have free will. Humans make mistakes, sometimes horrible mistakes. But we were born good. Jesus came into our world as an example of God's love. He was the divine expression of God here on earth. And we are supposed to try to be the same. That's the goal of Christianity - to become "Christ-like". Jesus' death was meant to demonstrate absolute pure, sacrificial love. God didn't force him to give up his life - Jesus chose that path. It's inspiring in that even when faced with torture and certain death, Jesus remained centered in God. He retained that God consciousness or enlightenment or awakeness....or whatever term you want to use. God used Jesus to communicate His love for us. How else could he have done that?

Do you really think Johah was swallowed by a whale? I think most people see that as a story of faith very much the same way we teach our children the story of the boy who cried wolf. Jesus spoke in parables all the time. Genesis is full of beautiful symbolic poetry about the creation of our world. The stories in the Bible makes sense when they are read with an awareness of cultural and historical context. And most importantly, when they are read using a little logic.

Yes, because governments the world over just LOVE practicing Christians. No persecution there ever.

It's well known and accepted by scholars and educated clergy and lay people that the bible has been translated numerous times, is full of metaphors, etc., etc, So given all that, how can anyone possibly use it to determine what "god" said and what "god" wants? Ancient books can be valuable and full of wisdom and still be not be the source of ALL wisdom for all times. I hope we get to the point where we can appreciate the bible and not venerate it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one thatis truly horrified by the human sacrifice theme that runs through the Bible? God created us, didn't like how we turned out, created a perfect one of us, and then set him up as human sacrifice? And that is supposed to be inspiring? It makes absolutely no sense.

And souls? That also makes no sense at all. Dualism is something you are supposed to get over as you mature. There can't be this many people out there that don't understand how the brain functions, there just can't.

I think the Bible has been translated and rewritten and translated and misinterpreted so many times that we miss the forrest because of the trees. The Christian Bible is full of beautiful metaphors, poetry, and parables. It's pretty obvious that most of it was never meant to be interpreted literally. There is no "Hell" mentioned in the Bible. The PPs who keep posting about eternal damnation and hell need to spend a little time researching the words Sheol, Hades and Gehenna. *Hint - None of them mean "Hell". At least not as Christians define it. The Bible we read today was translated and pieced together by powerful leaders who had every reason to want people to live in fear.

God (Creator, I Am, Love, Universe, Light, Allah, ...whatever your word for your Creator is) created us in perfect love. God is love and is incapable of creating anything but good. We have free will. Humans make mistakes, sometimes horrible mistakes. But we were born good. Jesus came into our world as an example of God's love. He was the divine expression of God here on earth. And we are supposed to try to be the same. That's the goal of Christianity - to become "Christ-like". Jesus' death was meant to demonstrate absolute pure, sacrificial love. God didn't force him to give up his life - Jesus chose that path. It's inspiring in that even when faced with torture and certain death, Jesus remained centered in God. He retained that God consciousness or enlightenment or awakeness....or whatever term you want to use. God used Jesus to communicate His love for us. How else could he have done that?

Do you really think Johah was swallowed by a whale? I think most people see that as a story of faith very much the same way we teach our children the story of the boy who cried wolf. Jesus spoke in parables all the time. Genesis is full of beautiful symbolic poetry about the creation of our world. The stories in the Bible makes sense when they are read with an awareness of cultural and historical context. And most importantly, when they are read using a little logic.

PP, you sound like a very progressivel, well educated Christian who is using your intellect to rationalize the parts of the bible that don't make "sense" but still have value, and hold on to the part you like and does make sense to you -- the Jesus story that offers love and eternal life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^I don't know what answer you're looking for. You tell me that you will not go to heaven when you die. I say fine. And then you get upset. WHA?

I'm not upset. I clearly know my side and am comfortable with it.

But you can't seem to answer my question. Why would God - who created us - dismiss an atheist? You're clear that this is the case, which only solidifies in my mind that your God is controlling and judgmental - and an asshole, for that matter.