Why Some People Convert to Islam

[Anonymous]

You have missed Sweetie's (as I think we are calling her) reason for going on and on about embryos.

Sweetie wrote:

"Muslims do believe in the truth of the Quran (as proven through science)."

Sweetie is desperate to prove that science substantiates everything in the Quran because she thinks that makes it true. That's why she goes on endlessly about embryos and Dr. Moore.

Sweetie doesn't understand what a fool's errand it is to try prove scripture with science. Try doing that with the sura on inheritance.

Religion is about inner truths, Sweetie, it is not about mere science. Spiritual truths are a higher level than literal truths.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not embarrassed at all about the numbers I posted. I didn't address that because I was busy answering the other misleading information you and others were posting. Islam IS the fastest growing religion in the US and the conversion rate is rapid. I do believe the growth is mostly due to conversion, but I do not know if immigration has increased in the past few years. I tell you all this not to boast, but simply to let you know Muslims are here to stay. It makes no sense to carry so much hatred toward Muslims or Islam because one day you will not be able to avoid having to interact with Muslims.

People like me? You don't know anything about me. I'm interacting with a big Muslim, a little Muslim and a Muslim inside my uterus all day long. There's nothing about Islam you can tell me I haven't already heard, read or seen. I grew up among them. But you have goggles on, and I don't.

I don't carry any hatred toward Muslims or Islam. I carry sarcasm and derision toward unsubstantiated claims - like the one you posted, that "Islam in the US grows more through conversion than through immigration" - and I'm not shy about showing it. You were pressed to show evidence for this. You posted BS numbers from an evangelical site that STILL showed Muslim immigration is FOUR TIMES HIGHER than Muslim conversions (which are not recorded, let's remind everyone again).

So, you "believe" growth is mostly due to conversion? Meaning you don't know? You don't know if immigration increased in the last few years? Dude, there's way more information available about immigration than about conversion (the subject on which no facts exist.) You should have just said "this is my theory, I don't know if numbers support it", and people would have left you alone. But you continued to claim you're right, and if only people weren't Islamophobic, they'd see that 25 is really higher than a hundred.

So let's have it out. You said Islam in the US grows more through conversion than through immigration. Is this your theory, or is this based on facts? If on facts, which facts?

Excuse me, was I talking to you? Are you the one with the martyr complex? Read through the posts before you reply. I was not speaking to you.

Here is the date and post stamp of my post to MUSLIMA, NOT YOU, in the thread, "Tell Me About Islam", in which I said why I believe Islamophobes are fearful of Muslims, followed by the actual post to her. This was a post directed specifically to Muslima. It was after I posted this directly to her that you and your islamophobes demanded cites and resources. But who was communicating with you? So frankly, I don't need to "have it out" with you or anyone else for that matter. I expressed to her my belief. But perhaps due to your martyr complex, you thought I was speaking personally to you...again.

Congratulations on your newfound acquired knowledge of Islam after having been impregnated by a Muslim man. Kudos.

09/03/2014 00:27
Salaam Muslima,

When I first joined this discussion, I truly thought it was an intellectual discourse. I truly thought the handful of people inquiring about Islam were interested in understanding Islam. They are not. I have answers their questions numerous times and, yet, it does not seem to be to their satisfaction. They are a dodging target. Their first accusation was that Muhammad was a pedophile. Then they take issue with Islam's inheritance laws. Then divorce laws are an injustice to women. Then it was testimony. Now it's custody. Nearly ever question has been answered except for the child custody one and that' s an easy to answer as well. I plan to explain that soon too.
I'm beginning to realize that their antagonism is an expression of their fear about the spread of Islam. Islam is the fastest growing religion, not only in the world but also in the US. Moreover, it is growing in the US, not by immigration, but instead by conversion. They know this. They feel terribly threatened by this because they fear Muslims will take over the US and want to convert it to a Sharia state. They fear it will give birth to grops like ISIS.
I wish I could reassure them that this will not happen. The beauty of America is that it is a multi religious, muli cultural land. Even if immigrants arrive here, clinging to their old customs and ways, by the second or third generation, American Muslims assimilate. They may not give up their religious principles completely but they learn the valuable lesson of tolerance of other religions and cultures. It gives birth to a new and better kind of Islam, an Islam free of cultural influences, and this is pure Islam.
Regardless of the vile accusations they make against Prophet Muhammad, I still hold that Christians and Jews are my brethren. Christianity and Judaism are simply other avenues to the same God we worship. I condemn ISIS and will always condemn any extremist group that denies the right of any Christian or Jew to practice his faith freely. This is real Islam.
It's very sad that rather than asking, "Why did Muhammad marry a girl so young?" or "Did Muhammad in fact marry a girl that young?" the word pedophile was used. It's just terribly insulting to the billions of Muslims that respect him so much.
No one can learn about Islam just google searching and reading just one or two books or relying on Hollywood movies like "Not Without My Daughter." To learn about Islam they have to be willing to call a few Imams or scholars in the US such as Hamza Yusuf, Ahmad Sakr, Muhammad Joban, etc…Historians do not know Islam as well as an imam or scholar would.
My own mother in law converted to Islam from Christianity over 40 yrs ago and she has never regretted her decision. She is of European descent. I am of mixed race. My children have very caucasian features and are not likely to be thought of as "Muslim" by other Americans. They will blend in American society almost completely, with the exception of their religion. This is the new American Muslim. They better get used to it.

[Anonymous]

Also, besides inheritance one has to consider guardianship of minor children. Needless to say, only men can be guardians.

So for the seven-eighths of the estate going to the children (assuming one is male; otherwise it would be less), why is it just in today's world to a woman who maybe has an MBA or a law degree that she cannot serve as guardian for these funds, and instead has to suffer some male guardian with perhaps less education and perhaps less than honorable intentions?

Sorry Sweetie, no educated woman in America would find this a good or just deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You have missed Sweetie's (as I think we are calling her) reason for going on and on about embryos.

Sweetie wrote:

"Muslims do believe in the truth of the Quran (as proven through science)."

Sweetie is desperate to prove that science substantiates everything in the Quran because she thinks that makes it true. That's why she goes on endlessly about embryos and Dr. Moore.

Sweetie doesn't understand what a fool's errand it is to try prove scripture with science. Try doing that with the sura on inheritance.

Religion is about inner truths, Sweetie, it is not about mere science. Spiritual truths are a higher level than literal truths.

I got under your skin, didn't I, as evidenced by the number of "sweeties" I get in your post to me. Condescension always creeps in when the blood pressure rises. Hilarious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How was that possible with the islamophobes repeatedly showing misleading hadith and sharia that gave daughters only 50% of the inheritance

That comes straight from the Koran, not hadith or not-directly-from-the-Koran sharia. Noting that fact surely cannot mark one as an Islamaphobe and it is not misleading to mention a crystal clear section of the Koran.

OMG. The misleading part isn't that the rule isn't true; its that you failed to explain the rationale for that. In a system where the female does not need to support herself, it makes sense to Muslims.

You stick to the Koran, fine. Why is it just in today's world that daughters get have of what sons get? Or that a woman with children gets one-eighth of the inheritance? (I recognize this was very liberal in 7th century Arabia.)

You will probably say it's because sons are supposed to support mothers and sisters. But maybe if the wife inherited everything, she could support both her sons and daughters, as well as herself without recourse to male relatives.

I am pretty sure women getting one-eighth (one quarter if childless) is very much related to the fact that a man can have four wives. So if he had four wives and all were childless, the wives would inherit everything. But now you have to justify how this one-eight/one-quarter distribution is applicable in countries without polygamy if the Koran as literally written is for all times and all places.

That you take the Koran literally is evident from your endless dissection of the verse on creation and attempts to show they were divinely inspired because they imply knowledge of the stages of the embryo not known at the time. Please give this up--you are convincing no one except maybe the obscure Dr. Moore.

I'm done. I posted all the links and information I wanted. It's there as a permanent record and I assure you, people are quitely reading even though they may not be responding to you or others. You can not escape Muslims in America so I would advise that you and the islamophoboes simply get used to us. We are here to stay and we are growing in numbers.

[Anonymous]

Sweetie, a big plus for you living in America is that you can get out from under Islamic inheritance (and guardianship) laws, particularly if you live in a community property state. Must be fun defending an oppressive dictate that will never apply to you personally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have missed Sweetie's (as I think we are calling her) reason for going on and on about embryos.

Sweetie wrote:

"Muslims do believe in the truth of the Quran (as proven through science)."

Sweetie is desperate to prove that science substantiates everything in the Quran because she thinks that makes it true. That's why she goes on endlessly about embryos and Dr. Moore.

Sweetie doesn't understand what a fool's errand it is to try prove scripture with science. Try doing that with the sura on inheritance.

Religion is about inner truths, Sweetie, it is not about mere science. Spiritual truths are a higher level than literal truths.

I got under your skin, didn't I, as evidenced by the number of "sweeties" I get in your post to me. Condescension always creeps in when the blood pressure rises. Hilarious.

No, I got under your skin--you didn't even attempt to admit, let alone defend, your view that everything in the Koran is the literal truth. This why you are now "done." You are fully aware that no one on this thread, if a religious Christian, believes every word of the Bible is true and likely just shakes their head at anyone who does.

[Anonymous]

OMG. The misleading part isn't that the rule isn't true; its that you failed to explain the rationale for that. In a system where the female does not need to support herself, it makes sense to Muslims.

No, you misled by saying the inheritance rules were from hadith and sharia when they come from the Koran. Yes, there is a social context and there particularly was a social context in 7th century Arabia, including PP's comment about polygamy.

We understand all that. We just can't square it with your literal view of the Koran that views everything it says is literally true and is good for all times and all place. And so it seems, neither can you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

5) It demands we treat prisoners of war, captives, slaves well (even though no one hears about owning slaves anymore!)…

It's like that whole 20-page conversation about concubines--women captured in war, rape, whether they get freed if they become pregnant or on the death of the master--never happened. SMH.

Oh it happened alright. You just ignored the parts you didn't want to read.

Happy to help by recapping that discussion.

When Muslim soldiers capture a village,
- They may distribute the female prisoners of war as concubines among themselves (per the Quran).
- The women are raped. These new concubines have no choice about having sex with their new masters (who probably just killed their husbands or fathers).
- If the concubine becomes pregnant with her rapist's child, she is freed upon her master's death. (This point took many pages but, contrary to what Muslim PP argued, the BBC link she provided herself proved the concubine is not freed at pregnancy or at the birth of her child, but only if she outlives her master.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have missed Sweetie's (as I think we are calling her) reason for going on and on about embryos.

Sweetie wrote:

"Muslims do believe in the truth of the Quran (as proven through science)."

Sweetie is desperate to prove that science substantiates everything in the Quran because she thinks that makes it true. That's why she goes on endlessly about embryos and Dr. Moore.

Sweetie doesn't understand what a fool's errand it is to try prove scripture with science. Try doing that with the sura on inheritance.

Religion is about inner truths, Sweetie, it is not about mere science. Spiritual truths are a higher level than literal truths.

I got under your skin, didn't I, as evidenced by the number of "sweeties" I get in your post to me. Condescension always creeps in when the blood pressure rises. Hilarious.

Not that poster, but calling everyone "evangelicalchristianislamophobe" or just "Islamophobe" every time you lose an argument doesn't speak well for your own blood pressure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, besides inheritance one has to consider guardianship of minor children. Needless to say, only men can be guardians.

So for the seven-eighths of the estate going to the children (assuming one is male; otherwise it would be less), why is it just in today's world to a woman who maybe has an MBA or a law degree that she cannot serve as guardian for these funds, and instead has to suffer some male guardian with perhaps less education and perhaps less than honorable intentions?

Sorry Sweetie, no educated woman in America would find this a good or just deal.

You and your islamophobes do not. And frankly I do not like some Sharia rules either. We agree on that. But I know the Sharia does not always reflect the Quran. Thats what you fail to understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sweetie, a big plus for you living in America is that you can get out from under Islamic inheritance (and guardianship) laws, particularly if you live in a community property state. Must be fun defending an oppressive dictate that will never apply to you personally.

Actually I am fine with Islamic inheritance law applying to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have missed Sweetie's (as I think we are calling her) reason for going on and on about embryos.

Sweetie wrote:

"Muslims do believe in the truth of the Quran (as proven through science)."

Sweetie is desperate to prove that science substantiates everything in the Quran because she thinks that makes it true. That's why she goes on endlessly about embryos and Dr. Moore.

Sweetie doesn't understand what a fool's errand it is to try prove scripture with science. Try doing that with the sura on inheritance.

Religion is about inner truths, Sweetie, it is not about mere science. Spiritual truths are a higher level than literal truths.

I got under your skin, didn't I, as evidenced by the number of "sweeties" I get in your post to me. Condescension always creeps in when the blood pressure rises. Hilarious.

Not that poster, but calling everyone "evangelicalchristianislamophobe" or just "Islamophobe" every time you lose an argument doesn't speak well for your own blood pressure.

Correct. The more accurate term was islamophobes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

5) It demands we treat prisoners of war, captives, slaves well (even though no one hears about owning slaves anymore!)…

It's like that whole 20-page conversation about concubines--women captured in war, rape, whether they get freed if they become pregnant or on the death of the master--never happened. SMH.

Oh it happened alright. You just ignored the parts you didn't want to read.

Happy to help by recapping that discussion.

When Muslim soldiers capture a village,
- They may distribute the female prisoners of war as concubines among themselves (per the Quran).
- The women are raped. These new concubines have no choice about having sex with their new masters (who probably just killed their husbands or fathers).
- If the concubine becomes pregnant with her rapist's child, she is freed upon her master's death. (This point took many pages but, contrary to what Muslim PP argued, the BBC link she provided herself proved the concubine is not freed at pregnancy or at the birth of her child, but only if she outlives her master.)

Back it up with the Quran or bow out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, besides inheritance one has to consider guardianship of minor children. Needless to say, only men can be guardians.

So for the seven-eighths of the estate going to the children (assuming one is male; otherwise it would be less), why is it just in today's world to a woman who maybe has an MBA or a law degree that she cannot serve as guardian for these funds, and instead has to suffer some male guardian with perhaps less education and perhaps less than honorable intentions?

Sorry Sweetie, no educated woman in America would find this a good or just deal.

You and your islamophobes do not. And frankly I do not like some Sharia rules either. We agree on that. But I know the Sharia does not always reflect the Quran. Thats what you fail to understand.

Different PP here. What you always fail to acknowledge is that inheritance rights are IN the Quran. The Quran clearly says that a woman inherits 1/2 of what her brother inherits.

Same with the thing about making female prisoners of war into your concubines. That's IN the Quran.

It would be one thing to say you're uncomfortable with these Quranic verses. It's another thing to keep pretending these Quranic verses don't exist.