Ludlow-Taylor getting a new a new Principal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The secret to kipp success is a lot of drill and kill and a boot camp like atmosphere. It's a prison like atmosphere. Th3y basucally condition the kids into behaving in a certain way. Those who can't handle it get kicked back to their home school and kipp gets all the credit for succeeding in teaching the well behaved, non special ed students.

So a KIPP education is worse than living on welfare as a single mother for years on end? Brushes with the law or prison? Low-wage jobs or hanging around street corners with nothing to do? The KIPP schools I've visited have been full of kids learning, behaving in a certain way, yes, like good students. Media reports tell me that the franchise has been receptive to criticism of the boot camp like atmosphere it creates.

DC charters aren't being given the resources or incentives to deal effectively with most special ed students. They only get around 80% of the funding of DCPS schools per capita, generally without good facilities in the mix. I blame the pols and the teachers unions. Still, I'd love to see Payne and Miner turned over to KIPP, leaving L-T to in-boundary families, special needs kids, too.

[Anonymous]

http://www.schoolsmatter.info/2012/09/a-former-kipp-teacher-shares-her-story.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The secret to kipp success is a lot of drill and kill and a boot camp like atmosphere. It's a prison like atmosphere. Th3y basucally condition the kids into behaving in a certain way. Those who can't handle it get kicked back to their home school and kipp gets all the credit for succeeding in teaching the well behaved, non special ed students.

So a KIPP education is worse than living on welfare as a single mother for years on end? Brushes with the law or prison? Low-wage jobs or hanging around street corners with nothing to do? The KIPP schools I've visited have been full of kids learning, behaving in a certain way, yes, like good students. Media reports tell me that the franchise has been receptive to criticism of the boot camp like atmosphere it creates.

DC charters aren't being given the resources or incentives to deal effectively with most special ed students. They only get around 80% of the funding of DCPS schools per capita, generally without good facilities in the mix. I blame the pols and the teachers unions. Still, I'd love to see Payne and Miner turned over to KIPP, leaving L-T to in-boundary families, special needs kids, too.







Yeah, what's wrong with discipline in school? Am I missing something?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am fairly close, as neighbors can be, with my low-SES neighbors. I have tutored for free a few of the kids that they watch over while their mums work 2 or 3 low paying jobs.
They do value education in general terms, and that's why they asked me if I could help the kids with homework...but that is the extent of it.

For example, I see the kids milling about after school while the relatives who are supposed to watch over them drink beer and play cards in the middle if the afternoon. One day one of the kids was complaining it was too hot and he was bored (I was going to the store and said hi, how are you). I suggested he could ask his aunt to take him to the museum - it's free and their is AC there. He hardly knew what a museum was and that idea had never occurred to anybody there. We live close to the metro and it would not have been that hard to do...I can help a little but can't be a parent to all!

So, people like this should just . . . get up and get out? And go . . .where?

To a school that can serve their needs best. LT is one of them, thanks to the excellent effort by Cobbs and teachers, from what I read here; now however, it appears that the IB patents want LT to cater to their needs, not the low-SES kids anymore. It is really really hard to do that. I don't want to send the current kids anywhere (besides I live on the Hill but my baby is only 6mo old, and I am not immediately concerned with the issue) but overtime the new classes will be of a different SES composition, and what's worked in the past might not work anymore.

I think studies suggest that poor kids benefit from being around high-SES kids in school up to a certain threshold (20-30%). After that, it is actually better to be in a school that caters to only low-SES needs. The problem with the gentrifying schools is that some are trending towards at a 'mix' that is not good for anyone. I have taught briefly and there is nothing more challenging than a class with a bi-modal distribution in skills/knowledge (granted I was not a great teacher).

The research puts the limit at around 18-20%. (Montgomery County, MD, Wake County, NC) After that point you have bi-modal populations and inability to change norms of behavior. Schools with populations greater than 20% FARM struggle to get high SES families. While there are one or two charters in DC with higher FARM populations and diverse racial population (e.g. Cap City) the charters have an advantage because their FARM population can be purged of the super-disruptive behavioral problems who can be sent back to DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The secret to kipp success is a lot of drill and kill and a boot camp like atmosphere. It's a prison like atmosphere. Th3y basucally condition the kids into behaving in a certain way. Those who can't handle it get kicked back to their home school and kipp gets all the credit for succeeding in teaching the well behaved, non special ed students.

So a KIPP education is worse than living on welfare as a single mother for years on end? Brushes with the law or prison? Low-wage jobs or hanging around street corners with nothing to do? The KIPP schools I've visited have been full of kids learning, behaving in a certain way, yes, like good students. Media reports tell me that the franchise has been receptive to criticism of the boot camp like atmosphere it creates.

DC charters aren't being given the resources or incentives to deal effectively with most special ed students. They only get around 80% of the funding of DCPS schools per capita, generally without good facilities in the mix. I blame the pols and the teachers unions. Still, I'd love to see Payne and Miner turned over to KIPP, leaving L-T to in-boundary families, special needs kids, too.




Nice example of a false dichotomy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The secret to kipp success is a lot of drill and kill and a boot camp like atmosphere. It's a prison like atmosphere. Th3y basucally condition the kids into behaving in a certain way. Those who can't handle it get kicked back to their home school and kipp gets all the credit for succeeding in teaching the well behaved, non special ed students.

So a KIPP education is worse than living on welfare as a single mother for years on end? Brushes with the law or prison? Low-wage jobs or hanging around street corners with nothing to do? The KIPP schools I've visited have been full of kids learning, behaving in a certain way, yes, like good students. Media reports tell me that the franchise has been receptive to criticism of the boot camp like atmosphere it creates.

DC charters aren't being given the resources or incentives to deal effectively with most special ed students. They only get around 80% of the funding of DCPS schools per capita, generally without good facilities in the mix. I blame the pols and the teachers unions. Still, I'd love to see Payne and Miner turned over to KIPP, leaving L-T to in-boundary families, special needs kids, too.

So schools need incentives to deal with special ed students? What about the Americans with Disabilities act? IEPs are legally binding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The secret to kipp success is a lot of drill and kill and a boot camp like atmosphere. It's a prison like atmosphere. Th3y basucally condition the kids into behaving in a certain way. Those who can't handle it get kicked back to their home school and kipp gets all the credit for succeeding in teaching the well behaved, non special ed students.

So a KIPP education is worse than living on welfare as a single mother for years on end? Brushes with the law or prison? Low-wage jobs or hanging around street corners with nothing to do? The KIPP schools I've visited have been full of kids learning, behaving in a certain way, yes, like good students. Media reports tell me that the franchise has been receptive to criticism of the boot camp like atmosphere it creates.

DC charters aren't being given the resources or incentives to deal effectively with most special ed students. They only get around 80% of the funding of DCPS schools per capita, generally without good facilities in the mix. I blame the pols and the teachers unions. Still, I'd love to see Payne and Miner turned over to KIPP, leaving L-T to in-boundary families, special needs kids, too.

Yeah, what's wrong with discipline in school? Am I missing something?

I think it's wrong when most of DCUm woudl not send their children there but think it's great for poor children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yeah, what's wrong with discipline in school? Am I missing something?

I think it's wrong when most of DCUm woudl not send their children there but think it's great for poor children.

KIPP doesn't welcome gentrifiers. Look on their webs site - they make no bones about serving low-income children of color, period.

KIPP's mission is to catch poor kids up to high SES kids with a more intensive early childhood education than traditional schools provide. DCUM types don't need KIPP schools, with their extended day, extended school year and Saturday programs. because most upper middle-income families are in a position to provide language-rich and otherwise intellectually stimulating environments at home.

Poor families in cities around the country choose KIPP over failing neighborhood schools in droves. The problem is...?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The secret to kipp success is a lot of drill and kill and a boot camp like atmosphere. It's a prison like atmosphere. Th3y basucally condition the kids into behaving in a certain way. Those who can't handle it get kicked back to their home school and kipp gets all the credit for succeeding in teaching the well behaved, non special ed students.

So a KIPP education is worse than living on welfare as a single mother for years on end? Brushes with the law or prison? Low-wage jobs or hanging around street corners with nothing to do? The KIPP schools I've visited have been full of kids learning, behaving in a certain way, yes, like good students. Media reports tell me that the franchise has been receptive to criticism of the boot camp like atmosphere it creates.

DC charters aren't being given the resources or incentives to deal effectively with most special ed students. They only get around 80% of the funding of DCPS schools per capita, generally without good facilities in the mix. I blame the pols and the teachers unions. Still, I'd love to see Payne and Miner turned over to KIPP, leaving L-T to in-boundary families, special needs kids, too.

Yeah, what's wrong with discipline in school? Am I missing something?

I think it's wrong when most of DCUm woudl not send their children there but think it's great for poor children.

I think children from dysfunctional families need more structure than those who get that structure at home. KIPP is one way, Seed is another: take the kids away from their families Monday to Friday, give them strict bed time and homework routine, dedicated counselors who check on everything, et voila, great achievement is possible. I bet the founders of Seed have no interest in doing this for my children, it would be a waste, they don't need it. I do that for them already.

Yes, every child can learn, but how this learning can be achieved differs.

[Anonymous]

yeah best practices don't apply to everyone

[Anonymous]

that was sarcastic fyi

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am fairly close, as neighbors can be, with my low-SES neighbors. I have tutored for free a few of the kids that they watch over while their mums work 2 or 3 low paying jobs.
They do value education in general terms, and that's why they asked me if I could help the kids with homework...but that is the extent of it.

For example, I see the kids milling about after school while the relatives who are supposed to watch over them drink beer and play cards in the middle if the afternoon. One day one of the kids was complaining it was too hot and he was bored (I was going to the store and said hi, how are you). I suggested he could ask his aunt to take him to the museum - it's free and their is AC there. He hardly knew what a museum was and that idea had never occurred to anybody there. We live close to the metro and it would not have been that hard to do...I can help a little but can't be a parent to all!

So, people like this should just . . . get up and get out? And go . . .where?

To a school that can serve their needs best. LT is one of them, thanks to the excellent effort by Cobbs and teachers, from what I read here; now however, it appears that the IB patents want LT to cater to their needs, not the low-SES kids anymore. It is really really hard to do that. I don't want to send the current kids anywhere (besides I live on the Hill but my baby is only 6mo old, and I am not immediately concerned with the issue) but overtime the new classes will be of a different SES composition, and what's worked in the past might not work anymore.

I think studies suggest that poor kids benefit from being around high-SES kids in school up to a certain threshold (20-30%). After that, it is actually better to be in a school that caters to only low-SES needs. The problem with the gentrifying schools is that some are trending towards at a 'mix' that is not good for anyone. I have taught briefly and there is nothing more challenging than a class with a bi-modal distribution in skills/knowledge (granted I was not a great teacher).

The research puts the limit at around 18-20%. (Montgomery County, MD, Wake County, NC) After that point you have bi-modal populations and inability to change norms of behavior. Schools with populations greater than 20% FARM struggle to get high SES families. While there are one or two charters in DC with higher FARM populations and diverse racial population (e.g. Cap City) the charters have an advantage because their FARM population can be purged of the super-disruptive behavioral problems who can be sent back to DCPS.

Forget where the research puts it -- look at the performance at LT. The school is doing a great job educating kids. With all the back and forth about IB/OOB, high and low SES, how behavior problems are distributed, no one has disputed that. The central issue with Cobbs was that some parents (many -- but not all! -- white) didn't like how she dealt with *parents*. There is a consensus that she hired and effectively supported really good teachers. The behavior stats aren't the best ever, but -- playground anecdotes aside -- they aren't terrible, either.

It really bugs me when people pull in all sorts of studies about whether or not G&T/differentiation is better or what level of low-SES kids is ideal (which somehow doesn't address what to do with all the "extra" low-SES kids when the number in the school-age population exceeds the ideal percentage), instead of looking at the actual school and how it's doing.

Newsflash: It's doing well. I hope it will continue to do well under the new prinicpal, if only because people will stop being distracted by their personal dislike of Cobbs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The secret to kipp success is a lot of drill and kill and a boot camp like atmosphere. It's a prison like atmosphere. Th3y basucally condition the kids into behaving in a certain way. Those who can't handle it get kicked back to their home school and kipp gets all the credit for succeeding in teaching the well behaved, non special ed students.

So a KIPP education is worse than living on welfare as a single mother for years on end? Brushes with the law or prison? Low-wage jobs or hanging around street corners with nothing to do? The KIPP schools I've visited have been full of kids learning, behaving in a certain way, yes, like good students. Media reports tell me that the franchise has been receptive to criticism of the boot camp like atmosphere it creates.

DC charters aren't being given the resources or incentives to deal effectively with most special ed students. They only get around 80% of the funding of DCPS schools per capita, generally without good facilities in the mix. I blame the pols and the teachers unions. Still, I'd love to see Payne and Miner turned over to KIPP, leaving L-T to in-boundary families, special needs kids, too.

Yeah, what's wrong with discipline in school? Am I missing something?

I think it's wrong when most of DCUm woudl not send their children there but think it's great for poor children.

I think children from dysfunctional families need more structure than those who get that structure at home. KIPP is one way, Seed is another: take the kids away from their families Monday to Friday, give them strict bed time and homework routine, dedicated counselors who check on everything, et voila, great achievement is possible. I bet the founders of Seed have no interest in doing this for my children, it would be a waste, they don't need it. I do that for them already.

Yes, every child can learn, but how this learning can be achieved differs.

No really, you just insinuated that children born into poverty do not benefit from best practices.

[Anonymous]

ALL children benefit from best practices in instruction and behavior management.

[Anonymous]

It would be interesting to see how many people posting on this thread have actually spent time in KIPP-style schools, spent substantial time in the neighborhoods east of the Anacostia, or have worked in and with those communities instead of speculating about "those children" and "those people".