Resentful and annoyed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure that $1200 for family of four is realistic in downtown DC OP, I think that is the message here.

It's what I currently pay, hence I am not moving (and other reasons too, which are no-one else's business but are very valid). But really, it's beside the point. What's at issue here is a system that lets down the majority of the kids in the city and provides for those whose parents are rich enough to be IB for a good school and/or lucky enough to win a lottery.

The metrics that we use to determine a "good" school track very closely with SES. I would argue that it's not so much that DCPS is actively providing for rich kids. Rather, it is a system that hasn't been able to figure out what to do with poor students. In that respect it is not alone.

Given that you live in a "poor" part of town, you're probably not familiar with DCPS's historic relationship with Ward 3 schools. In as much as there was any, it was benign neglect. DCPS left these schools to their own devices and the parents and community members picked up the slack. They volunteered, raised money and generally minded the hen house to keep DCPS dysfunction at bay. DCPS, in turn, exploited the willingness of Ward 3 communities to do DCPS's job for itself through its use of the OOB system as an escape valve for pent up demand for quality education in other parts of the city. This system worked very well as long as there was excess space in Ward 3 schools. However, as Ward 3 schools have become increasingly popular with new parents seeking to stay in the city, DCPS's abrogation of its responsibility to provide quality education has been exposed. This is really not an issue of Ward 3 parents' selfishness. Rather, it is an expression of their desire to retain what they built through hard work and determination in the face of a system that historically didn't give a damn about them.

Really, you built the schools in Ward 3?

[Anonymous]

Did you build the schools in your neighborhood?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure that $1200 for family of four is realistic in downtown DC OP, I think that is the message here.

It's what I currently pay, hence I am not moving (and other reasons too, which are no-one else's business but are very valid). But really, it's beside the point. What's at issue here is a system that lets down the majority of the kids in the city and provides for those whose parents are rich enough to be IB for a good school and/or lucky enough to win a lottery.

Which came first: good schools, or engaged, motivated, educated parents?

This poster suggests good schools first, but the timing of higher test scores vs property values suggests the second.

If the entire teaching staff at Mann were moved to the lowest performing school in the district, I suspect test scores at both schools would barely budge.

Now would that make a good research paper. Instead of Wife Swap, there would be Teacher Swap. Send the entire faculty, admin, and support staff from the highest performing school to the lowest and vice versa. It would be very interesting to see the results at the end of a school year.

DCPS knows exactly what would happen - nothing, which is why they don't do it on a large scale. according to IMPACT, DCPS now has a vast majority of "effective" teachers citywide (otherwise, they're fired) and SES is still the best indicator of test scores, even of kids in the same "diverse" classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure that $1200 for family of four is realistic in downtown DC OP, I think that is the message here.

It's what I currently pay, hence I am not moving (and other reasons too, which are no-one else's business but are very valid). But really, it's beside the point. What's at issue here is a system that lets down the majority of the kids in the city and provides for those whose parents are rich enough to be IB for a good school and/or lucky enough to win a lottery.

The metrics that we use to determine a "good" school track very closely with SES. I would argue that it's not so much that DCPS is actively providing for rich kids. Rather, it is a system that hasn't been able to figure out what to do with poor students. In that respect it is not alone.

Given that you live in a "poor" part of town, you're probably not familiar with DCPS's historic relationship with Ward 3 schools. In as much as there was any, it was benign neglect. DCPS left these schools to their own devices and the parents and community members picked up the slack. They volunteered, raised money and generally minded the hen house to keep DCPS dysfunction at bay. DCPS, in turn, exploited the willingness of Ward 3 communities to do DCPS's job for itself through its use of the OOB system as an escape valve for pent up demand for quality education in other parts of the city. This system worked very well as long as there was excess space in Ward 3 schools. However, as Ward 3 schools have become increasingly popular with new parents seeking to stay in the city, DCPS's abrogation of its responsibility to provide quality education has been exposed. This is really not an issue of Ward 3 parents' selfishness. Rather, it is an expression of their desire to retain what they built through hard work and determination in the face of a system that historically didn't give a damn about them.

I don't really live in a "poor" part of town. Houses in my neighborhood are now selling for in excess of $700k (some over $1 million). That's not poor in my book.

I am aware of some of what you talk about. I am also aware that at several of the JKLM schools parents are solicited for "optional" (which really are anything but optional) donations to the PTA by professional fundraisers in excess of $1500 a year (or perhaps semester?) And the funds from these "optional" donations pay salaries of full time teachers. This is crazy. It's certainly beyond reach of most kids' parents at my neighborhood school, and what's more we all pay our taxes. Those taxes should be sufficient to provide a quality education without supplementation from other sources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure that $1200 for family of four is realistic in downtown DC OP, I think that is the message here.

It's what I currently pay, hence I am not moving (and other reasons too, which are no-one else's business but are very valid). But really, it's beside the point. What's at issue here is a system that lets down the majority of the kids in the city and provides for those whose parents are rich enough to be IB for a good school and/or lucky enough to win a lottery.

Which came first: good schools, or engaged, motivated, educated parents?

This poster suggests good schools first, but the timing of higher test scores vs property values suggests the second.

If the entire teaching staff at Mann were moved to the lowest performing school in the district, I suspect test scores at both schools would barely budge.

Then why does the whole of Rhee and DCPS's current model rest on it being all related to teachers not economics or parents. I don't recall everyone being up in arms about the Rhee/Henderson reform model when it was implemented, only comments about lousy teachers hence lousy test scores. Seems we are all changing our tune now : (

Right. I think some of us were hoping against common sense and previous research, that they'd be right -- better teachers would do the trick. certainly the young, energetic reformers were very sure of themselves and were backed by the Washington Post and the newly elected mayor Fenty who won with overwhelming city-wide support.

We're "changing our tune" because our experience with this experiment shows it did not work. Up to now, their wacky experiment mainly affected teachers. Now it's affecting kids. Your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If you have lived there for so long then WHY did you have multiple kids when you didn't have a viable school option the entire time?
Most of us made the housing decisions years ago based on the knowledge that we would have kids someday. We scrimped and saved and bought in areas we didn't want to live in based on our future school needs. AND we only had one child. we didn't have a second because we couldn't afford to.
I kind of feel like you made your bed and now you want to complain about it.

you are clearly a jerk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I can't move. My housing costs are $1200 a month for a family of 4. Tell me where in the city I could get somewhere to live for that price and a good school? I have lived here since long before I had children so it was not a consideration when I saw single.

People who throw around "can't you move" have no understanding of the reality of normal people who don't have incomes into six figures.

If you have lived there for so long then WHY did you have multiple kids when you didn't have a viable school option the entire time?
Most of us made the housing decisions years ago based on the knowledge that we would have kids someday. We scrimped and saved and bought in areas we didn't want to live in based on our future school needs. AND we only had one child. we didn't have a second because we couldn't afford to.
I kind of feel like you made your bed and now you want to complain about it.

you are clearly a jerk

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) all caps not needed

2) that person is not going to stay where they are, but clearly having choices was meaningful to them

3) move somewhere else if you want an IB school choice

You're completely missing the point. We shouldn't have to move to get a decent education for our kids. Education is a right not a privilege. It is incredibly unfair that ward 3 parents are able to take charter school places away from families that have no other viable option.

instead of fighting with each other we should al fight dcps to fund schools fully so that all neighborhood schools have great teachers. Instead they set up a system where teachers compete each other and in which ultimately only they, teaches, are blamed if school fail. fight DCPS, email the chancellor and demand that she place qualified teachers in your own school ward so that your child does not have to travel 45 minutes-1 hour to a good school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This discussion is bizarre to me. The ward 3 schools get no more funding per pupil than any others. The teacher's aren't more qualified or experienced. What has made the ward 3 schools work is SES of the population and the corresponding parental involvement. (Plus PTA donations). There is no magic bullet here- just money and time.

The above comments make it seem like the posters would like to make all elementary schools lottery-wide, providing access to all - but they are forgetting that the same people you are railing against are the people whose very presence makes those schools what they are. Anger against rich people is fine, but those very rich people are directly responsible for high test scores.

it's not your money that brings in your test scores, it's the parent involvement.

[Anonymous]

OP did not have success with the charter lottery and cannot afford to move to be IB for specific schools. Friend [s] from her neighborhood are pleased that their children do NOT have to attend the IB school.

Charter schools are paid for with tax dollars. It is absurd that DC is up there with cities that have urban wastelands like Detroit and Philly or LA gang chaos in charter school percentages.

43% and non exist in ward 3. Other wards have some schools with high rates of attendance.

Plus DCPS has small elementary schools. FCPS has them with 700 plus on a regular basis. Who's fault is this BS?

OP has 2 kids and sounds like most of her neighbors send kids to charters. If they all went to the local IB school just what would happen? The problem is DCPS not the parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure that $1200 for family of four is realistic in downtown DC OP, I think that is the message here.

It's what I currently pay, hence I am not moving (and other reasons too, which are no-one else's business but are very valid). But really, it's beside the point. What's at issue here is a system that lets down the majority of the kids in the city and provides for those whose parents are rich enough to be IB for a good school and/or lucky enough to win a lottery.

The metrics that we use to determine a "good" school track very closely with SES. I would argue that it's not so much that DCPS is actively providing for rich kids. Rather, it is a system that hasn't been able to figure out what to do with poor students. In that respect it is not alone.

Given that you live in a "poor" part of town, you're probably not familiar with DCPS's historic relationship with Ward 3 schools. In as much as there was any, it was benign neglect. DCPS left these schools to their own devices and the parents and community members picked up the slack. They volunteered, raised money and generally minded the hen house to keep DCPS dysfunction at bay. DCPS, in turn, exploited the willingness of Ward 3 communities to do DCPS's job for itself through its use of the OOB system as an escape valve for pent up demand for quality education in other parts of the city. This system worked very well as long as there was excess space in Ward 3 schools. However, as Ward 3 schools have become increasingly popular with new parents seeking to stay in the city, DCPS's abrogation of its responsibility to provide quality education has been exposed. This is really not an issue of Ward 3 parents' selfishness. Rather, it is an expression of their desire to retain what they built through hard work and determination in the face of a system that historically didn't give a damn about them.

Really, you built the schools in Ward 3?

You're saying this sarcastically and sneeringly, but the answer is often "yes, the area residents DID 'build' the schools -- over a period of decades." Especially in the case of Lafayette, Murch and Janney (in that order).

Parents in CCDC and nearby have been building lasting programs in these schools since the 1970s, when I attended Lafayette. One of my parents basically created the art program in the mid 70s and taught -- for free -- painting and art history. For years.

Other parents run teams, chaperone, teach breakout reading groups, etc etc, again, in the SEVENTIES. It's never let up over here in ward 3. The "donate a few thousand a year" thing is actually much more recent than you newcomers imagine.

Also, while I'm on the subject of newcomers having some erroneous assumptions about ward 3 schools ... Lafayette, Murch and Janney we're never bad, or even iffy, schools that "turned around." They have always been dominated by middle class, educated families with two parents and professional jobs. Who, I'll say it, were overwhelmingly white neighbors. The OOB percentage has shrunk over the years but there was never a time since about 1970 that CCDC families didn't comprise the bulk of Lafayette and Murch.

Carry on.

[Anonymous]

FCPS schools are big because it is an efficient way to run a large school system. Pay one principal to run an 800 kid school or 2 principals to run 2 400 kids schools, and etc etc. It gets more value for the school system without diluting the quality of education.

$1200/month housing costs for a family of four won't buy OP into a great public school district anywhere in the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone else really upset and pissed at the unfairness of the lottery?

This is the third year we've been shut out. We have a poor IB choice. Private school isn't an option. Our child cannot continue where she is. And yet, friends of ours whose plan was to go private until K and then go to their IB JKLM elementary got into one of the top charter schools.

Sure, I was happy for them at first, but it starts to grate when you hear the gloating and the bragging and you know that they had other options that were fantastic and you have none and were shut out AGAIN.

You should move to Prince George's and, better yet, get a job with the DC government. Then there are special ways to get your kid into a higher performing DC public school.

[Anonymous]

Hey folks who think the current system is equitable: How do you feel about the Grover Norquist flat tax proposal? Highly analogous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure that $1200 for family of four is realistic in downtown DC OP, I think that is the message here.

It's what I currently pay, hence I am not moving (and other reasons too, which are no-one else's business but are very valid). But really, it's beside the point. What's at issue here is a system that lets down the majority of the kids in the city and provides for those whose parents are rich enough to be IB for a good school and/or lucky enough to win a lottery.

The metrics that we use to determine a "good" school track very closely with SES. I would argue that it's not so much that DCPS is actively providing for rich kids. Rather, it is a system that hasn't been able to figure out what to do with poor students. In that respect it is not alone.

Given that you live in a "poor" part of town, you're probably not familiar with DCPS's historic relationship with Ward 3 schools. In as much as there was any, it was benign neglect. DCPS left these schools to their own devices and the parents and community members picked up the slack. They volunteered, raised money and generally minded the hen house to keep DCPS dysfunction at bay. DCPS, in turn, exploited the willingness of Ward 3 communities to do DCPS's job for itself through its use of the OOB system as an escape valve for pent up demand for quality education in other parts of the city. This system worked very well as long as there was excess space in Ward 3 schools. However, as Ward 3 schools have become increasingly popular with new parents seeking to stay in the city, DCPS's abrogation of its responsibility to provide quality education has been exposed. This is really not an issue of Ward 3 parents' selfishness. Rather, it is an expression of their desire to retain what they built through hard work and determination in the face of a system that historically didn't give a damn about them.

Really, you built the schools in Ward 3?

You're saying this sarcastically and sneeringly, but the answer is often "yes, the area residents DID 'build' the schools -- over a period of decades." Especially in the case of Lafayette, Murch and Janney (in that order).

Parents in CCDC and nearby have been building lasting programs in these schools since the 1970s, when I attended Lafayette. One of my parents basically created the art program in the mid 70s and taught -- for free -- painting and art history. For years.

Other parents run teams, chaperone, teach breakout reading groups, etc etc, again, in the SEVENTIES. It's never let up over here in ward 3. The "donate a few thousand a year" thing is actually much more recent than you newcomers imagine.

Also, while I'm on the subject of newcomers having some erroneous assumptions about ward 3 schools ... Lafayette, Murch and Janney we're never bad, or even iffy, schools that "turned around." They have always been dominated by middle class, educated families with two parents and professional jobs. Who, I'll say it, were overwhelmingly white neighbors. The OOB percentage has shrunk over the years but there was never a time since about 1970 that CCDC families didn't comprise the bulk of Lafayette and Murch.

Carry on.

Similar story for the Capitol Hill Cluster Schools...with a more diverse but similarly active parent group