WAPO article about sever FFX school budget cuts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:17 pages? I knew it - the AAP crazies got out of their pen again.

I beg to differ. This is talking about where to cut the wasted tax dollars in FCPS schools. Looking for $148 million in cuts FY2014. AAP in elementary schools would be a good chunk to start with. It is not necessary and as it exist today a waste of $10million in tax dollars. Not to mention it is creating a community of divisiness, putting a lot of stress on very young children, offering a better education to a select few, creating wasteful spending, creating elitist entitled children, and bottom line wasting my tax dollars!!!

no, those who need it benefit from it very much. State law requires a special program for advanced learners. A few disgruntled people like yourself not withstanding, AAP and TJ are an understandable source of pride for the FCPS.

It is way more than a few. I'd be interested to see if buy-in and support for this program extends much beyond the families of the 18% of kids who get in. And I say that as a parent who has had a child in AAP. You are kidding yourself if you think this program is widely supported. Sure FCPS administration loves it because it makes the system look good, but given what it has turned into, support is dwindling and as the county grows I would not be surprised to see these programs back in the base schools where they belong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:17 pages? I knew it - the AAP crazies got out of their pen again.

I beg to differ. This is talking about where to cut the wasted tax dollars in FCPS schools. Looking for $148 million in cuts FY2014. AAP in elementary schools would be a good chunk to start with. It is not necessary and as it exist today a waste of $10million in tax dollars. Not to mention it is creating a community of divisiness, putting a lot of stress on very young children, offering a better education to a select few, creating wasteful spending, creating elitist entitled children, and bottom line wasting my tax dollars!!!

no, those who need it benefit from it very much. State law requires a special program for advanced learners. A few disgruntled people like yourself not withstanding, AAP and TJ are an understandable source of pride for the FCPS.

It is way more than a few. I'd be interested to see if buy-in and support for this program extends much beyond the families of the 18% of kids who get in. And I say that as a parent who has had a child in AAP. You are kidding yourself if you think this program is widely supported. Sure FCPS administration loves it because it makes the system look good, but given what it has turned into, support is dwindling and as the county grows I would not be surprised to see these programs back in the base schools where they belong.

Well there ya go. Now we're getting somewhere.

[Anonymous]

OK I've got it... One of Garza's suggested cuts is to have students pay for their IB and AAP testing. How about we do the same for the elementary level and charge the parents a few fees 1)fee for testing 2)fee for their children attending center schools 3)a bus fee for getting them to those centers. I think for the most part we would see an overwhelming support for dropping the "centers" and moving these kids back into their base schools.

"FCPS needs to get rid of the part time AART's and the part time AAP programs. They are not necessary and wasting money with no benifit. Bring the qualified fulltime AAP teachers from the center programs and distribute them in the base schools. Provide truly advanced classes with placement based on performance and grades not "social difficulties" . This wil get rid of some of the "pork" AAP services in the elementary schools. Drop the middle school AAP center program and stick with the, already in place, current self selected AP classes in all base middle schools. This eliminates the wasted money and countless hours of pay spent for "qualifying" kids, elimanates the part time AAP teachers and programs, consolidates busing, redistributes the students all while providing a "real" equal oppitunity and quality education for all. Look at all the cost savings!"

I am drafting a letter to Garza. There is minimal cut proposed to the AAP centers and they are completely unnecessary to provide an appropriate education to the students of FCPS. I am sick of this program getting $10million of my tax dollars appropriated to it with absolutely no benefit to the entire student population of FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK I've got it... One of Garza's suggested cuts is to have students pay for their IB and AAP testing. How about we do the same for the elementary level and charge the parents a few fees 1)fee for testing 2)fee for their children attending center schools 3)a bus fee for getting them to those centers. I think for the most part we would see an overwhelming support for dropping the "centers" and moving these kids back into their base schools.

"FCPS needs to get rid of the part time AART's and the part time AAP programs. They are not necessary and wasting money with no benifit. Bring the qualified fulltime AAP teachers from the center programs and distribute them in the base schools. Provide truly advanced classes with placement based on performance and grades not "social difficulties" . This wil get rid of some of the "pork" AAP services in the elementary schools. Drop the middle school AAP center program and stick with the, already in place, current self selected AP classes in all base middle schools. This eliminates the wasted money and countless hours of pay spent for "qualifying" kids, elimanates the part time AAP teachers and programs, consolidates busing, redistributes the students all while providing a "real" equal oppitunity and quality education for all. Look at all the cost savings!"

I am drafting a letter to Garza. There is minimal cut proposed to the AAP centers and they are completely unnecessary to provide an appropriate education to the students of FCPS. I am sick of this program getting $10million of my tax dollars appropriated to it with absolutely no benefit to the entire student population of FCPS.

yeah, it's too elite. It only benefits the smart kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:17 pages? I knew it - the AAP crazies got out of their pen again.

I beg to differ. This is talking about where to cut the wasted tax dollars in FCPS schools. Looking for $148 million in cuts FY2014. AAP in elementary schools would be a good chunk to start with. It is not necessary and as it exist today a waste of $10million in tax dollars. Not to mention it is creating a community of divisiness, putting a lot of stress on very young children, offering a better education to a select few, creating wasteful spending, creating elitist entitled children, and bottom line wasting my tax dollars!!!

no, those who need it benefit from it very much. State law requires a special program for advanced learners. A few disgruntled people like yourself not withstanding, AAP and TJ are an understandable source of pride for the FCPS.

It is way more than a few. I'd be interested to see if buy-in and support for this program extends much beyond the families of the 18% of kids who get in. And I say that as a parent who has had a child in AAP. You are kidding yourself if you think this program is widely supported. Sure FCPS administration loves it because it makes the system look good, but given what it has turned into, support is dwindling and as the county grows I would not be surprised to see these programs back in the base schools where they belong.

Well there ya go. Now we're getting somewhere.

Some information on how gifted education benefits all:

http://rochestersage.org/why-gifted-education

Gifted Education Benefits Everyone

Many times people look at the resources devoted to gifted students and ask why their student who gets average grades doesn’t get added resources. First, in many gifted and talented programs, gifted students do not get additional resources, but the same amount of resources allocated differently. Second, when gifted students are pulled-out of the regular classroom either through pull-out programs or magnet schools, other students can benefit. With pull-out programs, the gifted students may be sent to another room for a few hours a week. This means that the classroom teacher has fewer students to instruct and more time can be dedicated to the rest of the class. With grade-skipping, partial acceleration, and magnet schools, the teachers in the standard classrooms have a narrower range of students to teach to and do not have to spend as much time with differentiation.

Pulling out the gifted and advanced students also allows other students to answer more questions and to gain self-esteem by becoming top performers. Athletic teams understand this and often have freshman and junior varsity teams as greater participation, more interaction with the coach, and the chance to be a star help the athletes gain skills they would not if they were playing on a team with the varsity players.

Gifted programs have also created many of the innovations seen in the regular classroom that have improved academics. Problem-based curriculum, literature-based reading, and self-directed learning were all born in the gifted classroom. These adaptations, meant to challenge gifted students, have moved to other classrooms because of their effectiveness.

[Anonymous]

no, those who need it benefit from it very much. State law requires a special program for advanced learners. A few disgruntled people like yourself not withstanding, AAP and TJ are an understandable source of pride for the FCPS.


A special program yes but not a special school!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:17 pages? I knew it - the AAP crazies got out of their pen again.

I beg to differ. This is talking about where to cut the wasted tax dollars in FCPS schools. Looking for $148 million in cuts FY2014. AAP in elementary schools would be a good chunk to start with. It is not necessary and as it exist today a waste of $10million in tax dollars. Not to mention it is creating a community of divisiness, putting a lot of stress on very young children, offering a better education to a select few, creating wasteful spending, creating elitist entitled children, and bottom line wasting my tax dollars!!!

no, those who need it benefit from it very much. State law requires a special program for advanced learners. A few disgruntled people like yourself not withstanding, AAP and TJ are an understandable source of pride for the FCPS.

It is way more than a few. I'd be interested to see if buy-in and support for this program extends much beyond the families of the 18% of kids who get in. And I say that as a parent who has had a child in AAP. You are kidding yourself if you think this program is widely supported. Sure FCPS administration loves it because it makes the system look good, but given what it has turned into, support is dwindling and as the county grows I would not be surprised to see these programs back in the base schools where they belong.

Well there ya go. Now we're getting somewhere.

Some information on how gifted education benefits all:

http://rochestersage.org/why-gifted-education

Gifted Education Benefits Everyone

Many times people look at the resources devoted to gifted students and ask why their student who gets average grades doesn’t get added resources. First, in many gifted and talented programs, gifted students do not get additional resources, but the same amount of resources allocated differently. Second, when gifted students are pulled-out of the regular classroom either through pull-out programs or magnet schools, other students can benefit. With pull-out programs, the gifted students may be sent to another room for a few hours a week. This means that the classroom teacher has fewer students to instruct and more time can be dedicated to the rest of the class. With grade-skipping, partial acceleration, and magnet schools, the teachers in the standard classrooms have a narrower range of students to teach to and do not have to spend as much time with differentiation.

Pulling out the gifted and advanced students also allows other students to answer more questions and to gain self-esteem by becoming top performers. Athletic teams understand this and often have freshman and junior varsity teams as greater participation, more interaction with the coach, and the chance to be a star help the athletes gain skills they would not if they were playing on a team with the varsity players.

Gifted programs have also created many of the innovations seen in the regular classroom that have improved academics. Problem-based curriculum, literature-based reading, and self-directed learning were all born in the gifted classroom. These adaptations, meant to challenge gifted students, have moved to other classrooms because of their effectiveness.

An article indicating that non-gifted children will suffer more than gifted children if the two groups are taught together:

http://www.gifted.uconn.edu/nrcgt/kennarch.html

The Effects of Group Composition on Gifted and Non-Gifted Elementary Students in Cooperative Learning Groups

"Gifted fourth grade students experienced no adverse effects as a result of interacting with non-gifted students in cooperative learning groups. The gifted student does not learn less, experience a decline in self-concept, or become less popular in his or her group. In fact, students are seen as more friendly and better leaders in these groups, and they experience a relative increase in social self-esteem in heterogeneous groups.

At the same time, the non-gifted student does not experience an increase in achievement due to the presence of a gifted student. Thus, the view of the gifted child as a teaching resource was not supported. However, the non-gifted student in heterogeneous groups suffers from a decline in self-esteem and a decline in the perception by non-gifted peers on task-relevant activities. In sum, heterogeneous grouping has positive socioemotional outcomes for gifted children and negative ones for non-gifted children."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This thread is depressing.

Let's raise taxes, pass bonds, and fund our schools. Where's the problem here? In the richest county in the country, let's pay for our kids' education.

Thank you, PP. I am not generally in favor of increased taxes, but if you want a world class school system in one of the wealthiest counties in the country, we all may need to see our property taxes raised a smudge. It is ultimately good for our kids and property values. There is a lot of talk about waste of taxpayer dollars at the national level, but let's not confuse that with what FCPS is doing. Per pupil costs are actually quite reasonable, but the number of kids keeps increasing.

This. I imagine many of us moved here in no small part because of the outstanding schools. I think we can nibble around the edges and find wedge issues to exploit, but I have yet to see a realistic proposal that cuts $140 million without diminishing the overall quality of education provided to students.

I'm no more interesting in paying higher taxes than anyone else, but if doing so will continue to ensure that Fairfax has an effective and desirable school system, then I think it is a worthwhile investment.

Two very sensible comments out of 19 pages.

[Anonymous]

The AAP program isn't even listed as one of the cuts. How about the cuts that are actually listed?

[Anonymous]

Increased class sizes, reduced staffing... they need to take a closer look for the 1.8, 1.7million, etc... cuts. Most all school's have to high of student teacher ratio already. Garza’s cuts for discussion http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/fi...FY%202015%20Attachment%205.pdf
Send your ideas for cuts to:
Karen Garza
Superintendent
[e-mail]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am drafting a letter to Garza. There is minimal cut proposed to the AAP centers and they are completely unnecessary to provide an appropriate education to the students of FCPS. I am sick of this program getting $10million of my tax dollars appropriated to it with absolutely no benefit to the entire student population of FCPS.

BS. There are plenty of things FCPS spends a ton of money on that only benefit an "elite" subset of kids--including all high school bands, orchestras, and sports teams. Where are the 50+ comments complaining that these are unfair and a waste of money because they don't positively affect instructional outcomes for all kids? The focus on AAP, to the exclusion of plenty of other things that could be cut, is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Good afternoon Idiot (first time today)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Increased class sizes, reduced staffing... they need to take a closer look for the 1.8, 1.7million, etc... cuts. Most all school's have to high of student teacher ratio already. Garza’s cuts for discussion http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/fi...FY%202015%20Attachment%205.pdf
Send your ideas for cuts to:
Karen Garza
Superintendent
[e-mail]

What about cutting ESOL

[Anonymous]

I would focus on more revenue instead of cuts.

[Anonymous]

What if we make a shorter school year, ending before Memorial Day weekend? So little is done in June anyway.