s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"

[Anonymous]

We can agree on the fact that women should have control of their body and what goes on inside it without stripping the fetus of it's inherent humanity.

A fetus is a human, it's alive, and we all start out that way. We are all human from day one, we are all alive from day one. But women should be able to choose whether or not they stay pregnant even if choosing to abort ends the developing life of a human being, which it does. When we deny this fact we deny reality and cheat everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As the mom of a child w/ a now-repaired cleft lip and cleft palate, your post moved me to tears. I couldn't have said it better myself. I totally agree with it. Parents, it really is true: "If you ever find yourself in that position of discovering that your child is not going to be who you thought: relax. It's not going to be that bad. You are strong enough, you are amazing enough, you will do just fine. There's no need to panic. Remember that people with disabilities are people. They love, they laugh, they play, they communicate, they live. If you can get over yourself, you will do just fine."

Another really thoughful thing about this same topic is: "Welcome to Holland"
ut if you spend your life mourning the fact that you didn’t get to Italy, you may never be free to enjoy the very special, the very lovely things about Holland.

How nice for you. Your child has something that is cosmetic and can be fixed. Other things can't- severe autism, Down's, microcephaly, genetic defects that lead to early death, cystic fibrosis are permanent and they're hell.

"Welcome to Holland" is such a BS essay. It's not jus different. It's difficult. It's not just accepting the differences that is difficult. It's raising some of these kids that is difficult.

These are probably more realistic:

http://www.specialeducationpta.org/hollandschmolland.html

http://www.caffeinatedautismmom.com/2011/04/welcome-to-holland-or-is-it-beirut.html

I totally agree! A cleft palate? Give me a freakin break! A child whose only issue is a repaired cleft lip/palate is not a special needs child. I'd like to know how that repaired cleft lip/palate prevented her child from becoming who she thought he'd be. Maybe the scar tissue prevents him from blowing his own horn....and the Holland thing. I have that fucking essay. It's more like going to the gulag when you were supposed to be in Italy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We can agree on the fact that women should have control of their body and what goes on inside it without stripping the fetus of it's inherent humanity.

A fetus is a human, it's alive, and we all start out that way. We are all human from day one, we are all alive from day one. But women should be able to choose whether or not they stay pregnant even if choosing to abort ends the developing life of a human being, which it does. When we deny this fact we deny reality and cheat everyone.

It's not. It really isn't. It's human tissue ,but it's not "a human." It's a human fetus, but it isn't "a human," any more than my lung or my kidney is a"a human." It's part of me, until it can breathe on its own. If I chose to cut it out before it can breathe on its own or before it becomes conscious, I haven't killed "a human." I've killed some tissue that is part of me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can agree on the fact that women should have control of their body and what goes on inside it without stripping the fetus of it's inherent humanity.

A fetus is a human, it's alive, and we all start out that way. We are all human from day one, we are all alive from day one. But women should be able to choose whether or not they stay pregnant even if choosing to abort ends the developing life of a human being, which it does. When we deny this fact we deny reality and cheat everyone.

It's not. It really isn't. It's human tissue ,but it's not "a human." It's a human fetus, but it isn't "a human," any more than my lung or my kidney is a"a human." It's part of me, until it can breathe on its own. If I chose to cut it out before it can breathe on its own or before it becomes conscious, I haven't killed "a human." I've killed some tissue that is part of me.

That is ridiculous. Fetuses aren't conscious? They are as conscious as infants, at least past 20 weeks or so.

It's human tissue, but not a human? Just like a kidney? So at 23 weeks 6 days it is human tissue. But if it is born as a premature baby at 24 weeks it is a human. But if it's still inside it's just "human tissue." So if that's so, then I guess you'd have no objection to a woman cutting the human tissue out of her at 39 weeks, right?

The lengths of delusion people will go to makes me think if you were to face reality you wouldn't be pro-choice. You don't have to delude yourself in this way to be pro-choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can agree on the fact that women should have control of their body and what goes on inside it without stripping the fetus of it's inherent humanity.

A fetus is a human, it's alive, and we all start out that way. We are all human from day one, we are all alive from day one. But women should be able to choose whether or not they stay pregnant even if choosing to abort ends the developing life of a human being, which it does. When we deny this fact we deny reality and cheat everyone.

It's not. It really isn't. It's human tissue ,but it's not "a human." It's a human fetus, but it isn't "a human," any more than my lung or my kidney is a"a human." It's part of me, until it can breathe on its own. If I chose to cut it out before it can breathe on its own or before it becomes conscious, I haven't killed "a human." I've killed some tissue that is part of me.

That is ridiculous. Fetuses aren't conscious? They are as conscious as infants, at least past 20 weeks or so.

It's human tissue, but not a human? Just like a kidney? So at 23 weeks 6 days it is human tissue. But if it is born as a premature baby at 24 weeks it is a human. But if it's still inside it's just "human tissue." So if that's so, then I guess you'd have no objection to a woman cutting the human tissue out of her at 39 weeks, right?

The lengths of delusion people will go to makes me think if you were to face reality you wouldn't be pro-choice. You don't have to delude yourself in this way to be pro-choice.

Using "consciousness" as the measure of when an abortion is okay is stupid. Infants are not conscious, either. They lack self-awareness. They are less conscious than a dog or a chimp or a pig. It's why Peter Singer and other ethicists argue that infanticide is morally justifiable. Under that measurement, killing an infant is no more troubling than killing a pig for bacon or killing an unwanted dog left in a shelter.

I don't agree. Infants, unlike fetuses, can survive on their own. They breathe on their own. If the mother wants no part of the child, the community can take care of it without her assistance. It's not part of her. That entitles them to more respect than fetuses.

Abortions at 39 weeks are only allowed when the child is a threat to the health of the mother. Between a living woman and a full term fetus/infant, I chose the mother. She is a person. A fetus isn't and won't be for a while.

[Anonymous]

this debate makes me think about my poor mother who wanted to abort me because the doctor warned she might miscarry when she was pregnant with me. All of that worry she felt for her health would have been eliminated if she'd had a different doctor who'd been more supportive of abortion. I would have gladly forfeited my life to spare her a lifetime of fury, and me a lifetime of her fury.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:this debate makes me think about my poor mother who wanted to abort me because the doctor warned she might miscarry when she was pregnant with me. All of that worry she felt for her health would have been eliminated if she'd had a different doctor who'd been more supportive of abortion. I would have gladly forfeited my life to spare her a lifetime of fury, and me a lifetime of her fury.

WOW. This is pretty powerful and sad. Sorry, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:this debate makes me think about my poor mother who wanted to abort me because the doctor warned she might miscarry when she was pregnant with me. All of that worry she felt for her health would have been eliminated if she'd had a different doctor who'd been more supportive of abortion. I would have gladly forfeited my life to spare her a lifetime of fury, and me a lifetime of her fury.

I'm sorry your mom sucked. It's totally unfair to take that resentment out on the child. It's not the kid's fault.

My mom got pregnant at 16 with me. (On purpose, I was my dad's Vietnam draft deferment.) She then spent a good portion of her life resenting me because she had to be a mom and not a carefree young adult. I heard about it a lot. I appreciate the sentiment, but Christ! It's not my fault she decided to get pregnant. It was her choice and it was really unfair that she was all over me about it.

[Anonymous]

I did the right thing by not aborting my disabled son:

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/i-did-the-right-thing-by-not-aborting-video-of-young-mom-with-disabled-baby