s/o - Aborting because a child is "disabled"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone is cut out to raise a SN child and some SN children are higher needs than others. Every pregnancy carries a risk to the mother's life. It has to be the individual mother's decision whether she wants to risk her life for THIS pregnancy, knowing that it has a potential outcome. Late term abortions are always difficult for parents. Some of those mothers very much wanted their pregnancies and wanted a healthy child. Instead, they got horrible outcomes that will be terminal for the child. There is not point in taking the risk of carrying those children to term because labor and delivery is dangerous. If you feel all teary about the risks and rewards of having a SN child, good for you. You can make your own decision. Other women have the right to do the same.



BTW, abortion doesn't kill a child. It kills a fetus. It's not a child until it draws breath on its own.

They are both human beings though, right? So you admit that it is killing a human being.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone is cut out to raise a SN child and some SN children are higher needs than others. Every pregnancy carries a risk to the mother's life. It has to be the individual mother's decision whether she wants to risk her life for THIS pregnancy, knowing that it has a potential outcome. Late term abortions are always difficult for parents. Some of those mothers very much wanted their pregnancies and wanted a healthy child. Instead, they got horrible outcomes that will be terminal for the child. There is not point in taking the risk of carrying those children to term because labor and delivery is dangerous. If you feel all teary about the risks and rewards of having a SN child, good for you. You can make your own decision. Other women have the right to do the same.



BTW, abortion doesn't kill a child. It kills a fetus. It's not a child until it draws breath on its own.

They are both human beings though, right? So you admit that it is killing a human being.

No, wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone is cut out to raise a SN child and some SN children are higher needs than others. Every pregnancy carries a risk to the mother's life. It has to be the individual mother's decision whether she wants to risk her life for THIS pregnancy, knowing that it has a potential outcome. Late term abortions are always difficult for parents. Some of those mothers very much wanted their pregnancies and wanted a healthy child. Instead, they got horrible outcomes that will be terminal for the child. There is not point in taking the risk of carrying those children to term because labor and delivery is dangerous. If you feel all teary about the risks and rewards of having a SN child, good for you. You can make your own decision. Other women have the right to do the same.



BTW, abortion doesn't kill a child. It kills a fetus. It's not a child until it draws breath on its own.

They are both human beings though, right? So you admit that it is killing a human being.

So, a fetus isn't a human being? Because that's just silly. It is a scientific fact that fetuses are human beings. And the previous poster said abortion 'kills' a fetus. So if a fetus isn't a human being, what is it then? Enlighten me.

No, wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone is cut out to raise a SN child and some SN children are higher needs than others. Every pregnancy carries a risk to the mother's life. It has to be the individual mother's decision whether she wants to risk her life for THIS pregnancy, knowing that it has a potential outcome. Late term abortions are always difficult for parents. Some of those mothers very much wanted their pregnancies and wanted a healthy child. Instead, they got horrible outcomes that will be terminal for the child. There is not point in taking the risk of carrying those children to term because labor and delivery is dangerous. If you feel all teary about the risks and rewards of having a SN child, good for you. You can make your own decision. Other women have the right to do the same.



BTW, abortion doesn't kill a child. It kills a fetus. It's not a child until it draws breath on its own.

They are both human beings though, right? So you admit that it is killing a human being.

So, a fetus isn't a human being? Because that's just silly. It is a scientific fact that fetuses are human beings. And the previous poster said abortion 'kills' a fetus. So if a fetus isn't a human being, what is it then? Enlighten me.

No, wrong.

Not the PP you were asking, but here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_person

A child is a human being. A fetus is a human being in-the-making, which may, or may not, eventually become a human being. Any more questions? Feel free to ask.

[Anonymous]

No, it isn't a scientific fact that a fetus is a human being.

A fetus is exactly that. A bunch of cells, potentially organized to support life and with the capacity to eventually become a person under the right conditions. But it is not actually a person until it can survive on its own, outside another person's body.

Hope that enlightens you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, it isn't a scientific fact that a fetus is a human being.

A fetus is exactly that. A bunch of cells, potentially organized to support life and with the capacity to eventually become a person under the right conditions. But it is not actually a person until it can survive on its own, outside another person's body.

Hope that enlightens you.

No, no, you people are going about it wrong. The 'person' conversation should be separated from the human being conversation. When 'person hood' develops is different that what is a human being. If there is an embryo we would refer to it as a 'human' embryo to distinguish it from a pig embryo or dog embryo. What the fuck is 'human embryonic stem cell research' if those embryos aren't human. Sorry, I am pro choice but we would all be well to acknowledge that what two humans create in also another human, for crying out loud. When that human gets rights equal to the human's that created it may be up for debate.

This is like the alive thing too. Yes, fetuses are alive. They aren't dead! Now they may not have rights that supersede those of the mother...but fetuses are alive, and they are human. You don't start out as something other than a human and then become one at a later point!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, it isn't a scientific fact that a fetus is a human being.

A fetus is exactly that. A bunch of cells, potentially organized to support life and with the capacity to eventually become a person under the right conditions. But it is not actually a person until it can survive on its own, outside another person's body.

Hope that enlightens you.

No, no, you people are going about it wrong. The 'person' conversation should be separated from the human being conversation. When 'person hood' develops is different that what is a human being. If there is an embryo we would refer to it as a 'human' embryo to distinguish it from a pig embryo or dog embryo. What the fuck is 'human embryonic stem cell research' if those embryos aren't human. Sorry, I am pro choice but we would all be well to acknowledge that what two humans create in also another human, for crying out loud. When that human gets rights equal to the human's that created it may be up for debate.

This is like the alive thing too. Yes, fetuses are alive. They aren't dead! Now they may not have rights that supersede those of the mother...but fetuses are alive, and they are human. You don't start out as something other than a human and then become one at a later point!

The PP didn't say it wasn;t a human. PP said it wasn't a child A child has legal rights. A fetus has no rights. There excellent reasons for a child to have legal rights and a fetus to have none. It's not because a fetus isn't a person. It's because pregnancy is dangerous.

Pregnancy and labor and delivery put the life and physical health of a woman at risk. Even in modern America, complications related to pregnancy are among the top 10 causes of death for women ages 15-25.

http://www.cdc.gov/women/lcod/07_all_females.pdf

Even the healthiest pregnancy can go wrong at the last minute. I had an emergency C-section with my second and I bled a lot. I could have bled out on the table very easily. It was a close thing.

It has to be the woman's choice if she wants to undergo pregnancy because it's dangerous to do so. Only the individual woman can decide when she is ready and what she is ready for. If she decides that she isn't ready to be a mother or doesn't want to mother a particular fetus because it will have special need, it is her choice. Not yours. Not mine. Not anyone's.

A fetus has no rights because it is completely dependent on the mother, even while it places her life in danger. The entire personhood issue is a red herring. Even if a fetus is a person, abortion should still be legal. If someone came into my home and placed my life in danger, I would be allowed to use force to remove them or kill them to defend myself. A woman has the same right to defend her health and life from the dangers of pregnancy.

Motherhood is an all volunteer army.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, it isn't a scientific fact that a fetus is a human being.

A fetus is exactly that. A bunch of cells, potentially organized to support life and with the capacity to eventually become a person under the right conditions. But it is not actually a person until it can survive on its own, outside another person's body.

Hope that enlightens you.

No, no, you people are going about it wrong. The 'person' conversation should be separated from the human being conversation. When 'person hood' develops is different that what is a human being. If there is an embryo we would refer to it as a 'human' embryo to distinguish it from a pig embryo or dog embryo. What the fuck is 'human embryonic stem cell research' if those embryos aren't human. Sorry, I am pro choice but we would all be well to acknowledge that what two humans create in also another human, for crying out loud. When that human gets rights equal to the human's that created it may be up for debate.

This is like the alive thing too. Yes, fetuses are alive. They aren't dead! Now they may not have rights that supersede those of the mother...but fetuses are alive, and they are human. You don't start out as something other than a human and then become one at a later point!

I totally agree with you, but don't waste your breath. The people who have convinced themselves that an embryo or fetus is not a human being are unreachable (and dim witted).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, it isn't a scientific fact that a fetus is a human being.

A fetus is exactly that. A bunch of cells, potentially organized to support life and with the capacity to eventually become a person under the right conditions. But it is not actually a person until it can survive on its own, outside another person's body.

Hope that enlightens you.

You do realize that you are nothing more than a bunch of cells, right?

Hope that enlightens you.

[Anonymous]

I am pro-life. However, I have had friend who've had abortions and I don't think anything less of them. Those were their choices, not mine. Would I have made the same choice? MAYBE. Even being pro-life doesn't mean I'm stupid. There are a few instances when I feel abortion would be okay for ME personally. 1, pregnancy because of rape. 2, the pregnancy would cause harm to me. 3, the child's chance at life is less than 5% (heck I might even go as high as 10%) if carried to full-term.

I feel everyone should take a breath and put yourself in others shoes. If the doctor said to you your child wouldn't live past a few days, would you still carry it for 9 months? If you would, well then good for you, but that doesn't make you right.

Your choices are yours, mine are my own. Unless you've lived my life. STFU.

[Anonymous]

I am pro-choice but I don't believe a fetus is just a bunch of cells. This was the belief back in the 70's but we now know so much more. At five weeks gestation there is a heartbeat. This isn't, by definition a child, but that doesn't mean that's not what it will develop into if given the chance. I think we need to stop kidding ourselves about what happens during gestation. I lost a baby at 12 weeks and when it came out it was fully formed. Arms, legs, head... Everything. I had a hard time deciding what to do with it. Should I flush it or bury it? This was a baby I didn't want but was going to go to term and put up for adoption.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am pro-life. However, I have had friend who've had abortions and I don't think anything less of them. Those were their choices, not mine. Would I have made the same choice? MAYBE. Even being pro-life doesn't mean I'm stupid. There are a few instances when I feel abortion would be okay for ME personally. 1, pregnancy because of rape. 2, the pregnancy would cause harm to me. 3, the child's chance at life is less than 5% (heck I might even go as high as 10%) if carried to full-term.

I feel everyone should take a breath and put yourself in others shoes. If the doctor said to you your child wouldn't live past a few days, would you still carry it for 9 months? If you would, well then good for you, but that doesn't make you right.

Your choices are yours, mine are my own. Unless you've lived my life. STFU.

h

It sounds you're pro-choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As the mom of a child w/ a now-repaired cleft lip and cleft palate, your post moved me to tears. I couldn't have said it better myself. I totally agree with it. Parents, it really is true: "If you ever find yourself in that position of discovering that your child is not going to be who you thought: relax. It's not going to be that bad. You are strong enough, you are amazing enough, you will do just fine. There's no need to panic. Remember that people with disabilities are people. They love, they laugh, they play, they communicate, they live. If you can get over yourself, you will do just fine."

Another really thoughful thing about this same topic is: "Welcome to Holland"
ut if you spend your life mourning the fact that you didn’t get to Italy, you may never be free to enjoy the very special, the very lovely things about Holland.

How nice for you. Your child has something that is cosmetic and can be fixed. Other things can't- severe autism, Down's, microcephaly, genetic defects that lead to early death, cystic fibrosis are permanent and they're hell.

"Welcome to Holland" is such a BS essay. It's not jus different. It's difficult. It's not just accepting the differences that is difficult. It's raising some of these kids that is difficult.

These are probably more realistic:

http://www.specialeducationpta.org/hollandschmolland.html

http://www.caffeinatedautismmom.com/2011/04/welcome-to-holland-or-is-it-beirut.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am pro-choice but I don't believe a fetus is just a bunch of cells. This was the belief back in the 70's but we now know so much more. At five weeks gestation there is a heartbeat. This isn't, by definition a child, but that doesn't mean that's not what it will develop into if given the chance. I think we need to stop kidding ourselves about what happens during gestation. I lost a baby at 12 weeks and when it came out it was fully formed. Arms, legs, head... Everything. I had a hard time deciding what to do with it. Should I flush it or bury it? This was a baby I didn't want but was going to go to term and put up for adoption.

I'm pro-choice. It's not a baby and it's not just a bunch of cells. It's something in between, that should be treated with respect and seriousness. It's not nothing. I don't know very many women that treat an abortion as "nothing>"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, it isn't a scientific fact that a fetus is a human being.

A fetus is exactly that. A bunch of cells, potentially organized to support life and with the capacity to eventually become a person under the right conditions. But it is not actually a person until it can survive on its own, outside another person's body.

Hope that enlightens you.

You do realize that you are nothing more than a bunch of cells, right?

Hope that enlightens you.

I have consciousness and free choice and can breathe on my own. A fetus doesn't and can't. It's essentially a parasite.
Hope that enlightens you.