Landon vs. Georgetown Prep Upper School

[Anonymous]

While a lot of Landon 9th graders are returning students, there is also a fair amount of expansion in that grade. I can't say anything about GP, because we never considered a religious based school for our sons, but, other than the prevalence of Catholics at Prep, the student bodies seem quite similar, in good and not so good ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While a lot of Landon 9th graders are returning students, there is also a fair amount of expansion in that grade. I can't say anything about GP, because we never considered a religious based school for our sons, but, other than the prevalence of Catholics at Prep, the student bodies seem quite similar, in good and not so good ways.

On the surface both student bodies may seem similar. Afterall, both are all boys private high schools in the same general geography. But once you scratch that surface they are very dissimilar.

The Prep kids are predominately members of the rather large Catholic community that is indigenous to Montgomery County and Northwest DC. In many cases they have gone to the same small set of grammar schools, belong to the same set of parishes and have played on the same youth teams.

Rarely do families consider both Landon and Prep. Gonzaga is the alternative to Georgetown Prep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While a lot of Landon 9th graders are returning students, there is also a fair amount of expansion in that grade. I can't say anything about GP, because we never considered a religious based school for our sons, but, other than the prevalence of Catholics at Prep, the student bodies seem quite similar, in good and not so good ways.

On the surface both student bodies may seem similar. Afterall, both are all boys private high schools in the same general geography. But once you scratch that surface they are very dissimilar.

The Prep kids are predominately members of the rather large Catholic community that is indigenous to Montgomery County and Northwest DC. In many cases they have gone to the same small set of grammar schools, belong to the same set of parishes and have played on the same youth teams.

Rarely do families consider both Landon and Prep. Gonzaga is the alternative to Georgetown Prep.

But aren't they fairly similar socioeconomically?

[Anonymous]

Anyone who spends more than a little time on these boards will realize that they mean it when they say *DC* urban moms ( a more accurate name would be NW DC urban moms). There is a very narrow perspective represented on these boards, the perspective of those residing in DC west of the rock creek park. If you are interested in that very unique enclave this is a good place, but don't expect to get a balanced view of areas outside the enclave. This includes the private schools such as Prep and Landon.

There some who think that the area has not changed since the 1960s when NW DC was the THE place to live, but the statistical data tell a different story. DC is now a puny component of the economy of this area. Not unlike the increasingly marginal importance of San Francisco to the Bay Area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While a lot of Landon 9th graders are returning students, there is also a fair amount of expansion in that grade. I can't say anything about GP, because we never considered a religious based school for our sons, but, other than the prevalence of Catholics at Prep, the student bodies seem quite similar, in good and not so good ways.

On the surface both student bodies may seem similar. Afterall, both are all boys private high schools in the same general geography. But once you scratch that surface they are very dissimilar.

The Prep kids are predominately members of the rather large Catholic community that is indigenous to Montgomery County and Northwest DC. In many cases they have gone to the same small set of grammar schools, belong to the same set of parishes and have played on the same youth teams.

Rarely do families consider both Landon and Prep. Gonzaga is the alternative to Georgetown Prep.

But aren't they fairly similar socioeconomically?

To a degree. Both have groups from the same neighborhoods (although they stop associating with one another in 4th grade)

At least within Prep --- because that's all I know --- there's quite a range. There are a fair number of kids from NW DC. Bethesda and Potomac who are paying list price. But there are also a large number of families from places like Silver Spring and Kensington that are making huge sacrifices to send their boy or boys to Prep. I'm guessing that there is a higher percentage of this group at Prep than there is at Landon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While a lot of Landon 9th graders are returning students, there is also a fair amount of expansion in that grade. I can't say anything about GP, because we never considered a religious based school for our sons, but, other than the prevalence of Catholics at Prep, the student bodies seem quite similar, in good and not so good ways.

On the surface both student bodies may seem similar. Afterall, both are all boys private high schools in the same general geography. But once you scratch that surface they are very dissimilar.

The Prep kids are predominately members of the rather large Catholic community that is indigenous to Montgomery County and Northwest DC. In many cases they have gone to the same small set of grammar schools, belong to the same set of parishes and have played on the same youth teams.

Rarely do families consider both Landon and Prep. Gonzaga is the alternative to Georgetown Prep.

But aren't they fairly similar socioeconomically?

To a degree. Both have groups from the same neighborhoods (although they stop associating with one another in 4th grade)

At least within Prep --- because that's all I know --- there's quite a range. There are a fair number of kids from NW DC. Bethesda and Potomac who are paying list price. But there are also a large number of families from places like Silver Spring and Kensington that are making huge sacrifices to send their boy or boys to Prep. I'm guessing that there is a higher percentage of this group at Prep than there is at Landon.

"To a degree. Both have groups from the same neighborhoods (although they stop associating with one another in 4th grade)"


That is only true of the non-jocks and those who don't pursue girls at the private schools in MoCo. The athletes have ongoing interaction on club teams and invitational tournaments and then socially once they can drive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While a lot of Landon 9th graders are returning students, there is also a fair amount of expansion in that grade. I can't say anything about GP, because we never considered a religious based school for our sons, but, other than the prevalence of Catholics at Prep, the student bodies seem quite similar, in good and not so good ways.

On the surface both student bodies may seem similar. Afterall, both are all boys private high schools in the same general geography. But once you scratch that surface they are very dissimilar.

The Prep kids are predominately members of the rather large Catholic community that is indigenous to Montgomery County and Northwest DC. In many cases they have gone to the same small set of grammar schools, belong to the same set of parishes and have played on the same youth teams.

Rarely do families consider both Landon and Prep. Gonzaga is the alternative to Georgetown Prep.

But aren't they fairly similar socioeconomically?

To a degree. Both have groups from the same neighborhoods (although they stop associating with one another in 4th grade)

At least within Prep --- because that's all I know --- there's quite a range. There are a fair number of kids from NW DC. Bethesda and Potomac who are paying list price. But there are also a large number of families from places like Silver Spring and Kensington that are making huge sacrifices to send their boy or boys to Prep. I'm guessing that there is a higher percentage of this group at Prep than there is at Landon.

"To a degree. Both have groups from the same neighborhoods (although they stop associating with one another in 4th grade)"


That is only true of the non-jocks and those who don't pursue girls at the private schools in MoCo. The athletes have ongoing interaction on club teams and invitational tournaments and then socially once they can drive.

We have had three sons go through Prep and they were multi-sport athletes (Football, basketball, track and lacrosse). They and their large network of friends had no contact with the Landon kids except at parties hosted by Holton girls and at these the interaction was uncomfortable. Integrated club teams are pretty much over by the 9th grade.

There are isolated examples of friendships, but in general an animosity overlays the relationship between the two schools. A Landon magazine article written in the last two years describes the situation. In the 90's it was so bad a joint Landon-GP-St Albans Father's Club meeting was held at Landon to discuss how to decrease the weekend violence that was occuring.

[Anonymous]

Kind of sad when schools with average SAT's in the 1300 range have "Weekend violence" regularly. That says a lot about these two student bodies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While a lot of Landon 9th graders are returning students, there is also a fair amount of expansion in that grade. I can't say anything about GP, because we never considered a religious based school for our sons, but, other than the prevalence of Catholics at Prep, the student bodies seem quite similar, in good and not so good ways.

On the surface both student bodies may seem similar. Afterall, both are all boys private high schools in the same general geography. But once you scratch that surface they are very dissimilar.

The Prep kids are predominately members of the rather large Catholic community that is indigenous to Montgomery County and Northwest DC. In many cases they have gone to the same small set of grammar schools, belong to the same set of parishes and have played on the same youth teams.

Rarely do families consider both Landon and Prep. Gonzaga is the alternative to Georgetown Prep.

But aren't they fairly similar socioeconomically?

To a degree. Both have groups from the same neighborhoods (although they stop associating with one another in 4th grade)

At least within Prep --- because that's all I know --- there's quite a range. There are a fair number of kids from NW DC. Bethesda and Potomac who are paying list price. But there are also a large number of families from places like Silver Spring and Kensington that are making huge sacrifices to send their boy or boys to Prep. I'm guessing that there is a higher percentage of this group at Prep than there is at Landon.

"To a degree. Both have groups from the same neighborhoods (although they stop associating with one another in 4th grade)"


That is only true of the non-jocks and those who don't pursue girls at the private schools in MoCo. The athletes have ongoing interaction on club teams and invitational tournaments and then socially once they can drive.

We have had three sons go through Prep and they were multi-sport athletes (Football, basketball, track and lacrosse). They and their large network of friends had no contact with the Landon kids except at parties hosted by Holton girls and at these the interaction was uncomfortable. Integrated club teams are pretty much over by the 9th grade.

There are isolated examples of friendships, but in general an animosity overlays the relationship between the two schools. A Landon magazine article written in the last two years describes the situation. In the 90's it was so bad a joint Landon-GP-St Albans Father's Club meeting was held at Landon to discuss how to decrease the weekend violence that was occuring.

You are talking about 10-15 years ago. I think you need to provide some evidence that is a little more recent of all this violence that is occurring on the weekends.

[Anonymous]

Georgetown Prep admission decisions are not coming out till end of Feb as with several other schools. How did you already get acceptances? Not flaming... just asking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While a lot of Landon 9th graders are returning students, there is also a fair amount of expansion in that grade. I can't say anything about GP, because we never considered a religious based school for our sons, but, other than the prevalence of Catholics at Prep, the student bodies seem quite similar, in good and not so good ways.

On the surface both student bodies may seem similar. Afterall, both are all boys private high schools in the same general geography. But once you scratch that surface they are very dissimilar.

The Prep kids are predominately members of the rather large Catholic community that is indigenous to Montgomery County and Northwest DC. In many cases they have gone to the same small set of grammar schools, belong to the same set of parishes and have played on the same youth teams.

Rarely do families consider both Landon and Prep. Gonzaga is the alternative to Georgetown Prep.

But aren't they fairly similar socioeconomically?

To a degree. Both have groups from the same neighborhoods (although they stop associating with one another in 4th grade)

At least within Prep --- because that's all I know --- there's quite a range. There are a fair number of kids from NW DC. Bethesda and Potomac who are paying list price. But there are also a large number of families from places like Silver Spring and Kensington that are making huge sacrifices to send their boy or boys to Prep. I'm guessing that there is a higher percentage of this group at Prep than there is at Landon.

"To a degree. Both have groups from the same neighborhoods (although they stop associating with one another in 4th grade)"


That is only true of the non-jocks and those who don't pursue girls at the private schools in MoCo. The athletes have ongoing interaction on club teams and invitational tournaments and then socially once they can drive.

We have had three sons go through Prep and they were multi-sport athletes (Football, basketball, track and lacrosse). They and their large network of friends had no contact with the Landon kids except at parties hosted by Holton girls and at these the interaction was uncomfortable. Integrated club teams are pretty much over by the 9th grade.

There are isolated examples of friendships, but in general an animosity overlays the relationship between the two schools. A Landon magazine article written in the last two years describes the situation. In the 90's it was so bad a joint Landon-GP-St Albans Father's Club meeting was held at Landon to discuss how to decrease the weekend violence that was occuring.

You are talking about 10-15 years ago. I think you need to provide some evidence that is a little more recent of all this violence that is occurring on the weekends.

The violence seems to have subsided. But the animosity lives on fueled by coaches, alumni and faculty members who do remember incidents.

The article in the Landon magazine describing the state of affairs isn't 10 years old. It's two years old.

[Anonymous]

So how are Preppies different from Landonites, except for religion? Is the animosity about sports (lacrosse)? Is it because they compete for the same girls? From an outside viewpoint, it seems that the student bodies are very similar in intelligence and economics and demographics. I'd like to read that article.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So how are Preppies different from Landonites, except for religion? Is the animosity about sports (lacrosse)? Is it because they compete for the same girls? From an outside viewpoint, it seems that the student bodies are very similar in intelligence and economics and demographics. I'd like to read that article.

Actually two interesting questions. The first is how are the two student bodies different. The second is why all the animosity between two schools that to the outsider seem so similar.

Religion is one big difference. But it goes beyond religion. To get this you have to have an understanding of the history and the various groups that populate the area.
There is, and there has been for a very long time, a large Catholic community in the DC area. This community is largely of Irish extraction. (The students at Gonzaga, Prep's brother Jesuit high school, call themselves "The Eye Street Irish" with good reason.)

This large Catholic community is held together through going to the same churches, the same schools, the same colleges, belonging to the same clubs, intermarriage and a large network of doctors, dentists, building contractors, etc., etc..

Some of these people through the years have been quite successful. And although they live in upscale areas among other groups, they maintain membership in this large Catholic community with their relationships with their neighbors being a kind of secondary one.

As someone said in another thread, they don’t even consider independent private schools for their children.

So it's not just "religion" that binds the group together.

The Landon student population is diverse with even a few Catholics. But these are generally Catholics newer to Washington that aren’t part of the Catholic community.

The “Animosity” between the two schools has its roots in athletic competition. Athletic success is very important on both campuses and among the alumni parents and teachers. By and large these two schools have for a very long time been at the top of the IAC. So to win a championship, one team has to beat the other. They gear their efforts to beating one another in the same way that Army fixates on beating Navy. The coaches --- who at Landon are also teachers –drum this into the heads of these teenagers.

But this “rivalry” through the years has spawned a lot of bad behavior on both sides. So added to the current athletic competition is this long list of past grievances which the coaches, alumni and others carry around like Jacob Marley’s chains.

The students are swept along in this.

The lacrosse rivalry is just another chapter in this. Landon's coach was introduced to lacrosse in college and started the Landon program. For decades they were dominant and the program was a point of considerable pride for the school. It took a long time for Prep to build its program by attracting their better athletes to it. Now there is virtual parity and yet another wonderful opportunity to stoke the fires between the two schools.

Some have said that the two would be better off in different conferences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens with the Ivy's and selective D3 lax programs, where grades and sat scores actually matter.

Well, they sort of matter. If you think that star lacrosse or football or basketball players have to have the same academic profile as the average student at Ivy League schools, you are operating under a faulty assumption. I have seen many lacrosse players recruited by Ivies and admitted, who wouldn't stand a chance to be admitted without the coaching staffs full involvement in the process. Not a few of these instances have stunned teachers and classmates.


The Ivies use something called the "Academic Index" or AI. It allows the Athletic Department to recruit athletes with lower SATs and GPAs, but it's not a blank check. They can recruit only so many in each Academic Index band. The lower the band requirements, the fewer they can admit. But that lower band is lower than you think it is. Amherst and Williams do the same thing, but I don't believe its a Conference requirement (NESCAC)

If you have a 1250 on the SATs and a class rank in the 60th percentile of your class, you are well within the AI range. (http://home.comcast.net/~charles517/ivyai.html) The 1250 isn 't all that hard especially with a waiver allowing you to take it on an untimed basis several times with extensive coaching between the multiple attempts.


Now the tricky part is that is that the Academic Index is different for the different schools. Penn, for example, can recruit athletes that Harvard cannot because the average non-athlete scores at Harvard are higher than at Penn.

Ivy League recruiting is some of the most aggressive recruiting you'll see. Frequently helped by local DC alumni -- which is border line legal -- they put the full court press on students they think will help their program and that they think they can get past the admissions hurdle.

The schools when questioned about this say that they do the same sort of thing with musicians they need or to meet diversity goals or to satisfy various constitutencies on the campus.

So get if you want to go to an Ivy League school and want to avoid the crowd clawing their way in through studying, competiting for grades and lists of extracurricular activities, get out of the library and start throwing the lacrosse ball against a concrete wall. Since no one ever fails out of the Ivies, you can look forward to graduating with an Ivy degree even though you were mystified in many of the classes.

Want to know why so many people are involving their kids in the sport at an early age and spending big bucks for high school? It's the HOV lane to selective college admissions for the those slightly above the average in class rank.

??? " you can look forward to an IVY League degree even if you were mystified in some of the classes" ???? Boy, this county IS in trouble......

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While a lot of Landon 9th graders are returning students, there is also a fair amount of expansion in that grade. I can't say anything about GP, because we never considered a religious based school for our sons, but, other than the prevalence of Catholics at Prep, the student bodies seem quite similar, in good and not so good ways.

On the surface both student bodies may seem similar. Afterall, both are all boys private high schools in the same general geography. But once you scratch that surface they are very dissimilar.

The Prep kids are predominately members of the rather large Catholic community that is indigenous to Montgomery County and Northwest DC. In many cases they have gone to the same small set of grammar schools, belong to the same set of parishes and have played on the same youth teams.

Rarely do families consider both Landon and Prep. Gonzaga is the alternative to Georgetown Prep.

But aren't they fairly similar socioeconomically?

To a degree. Both have groups from the same neighborhoods (although they stop associating with one another in 4th grade)



LOL , this is ridiculous and the adults perpetuating it should be ashamed. Where are we: Washington or Texas ???

At least within Prep --- because that's all I know --- there's quite a range. There are a fair number of kids from NW DC. Bethesda and Potomac who are paying list price. But there are also a large number of families from places like Silver Spring and Kensington that are making huge sacrifices to send their boy or boys to Prep. I'm guessing that there is a higher percentage of this group at Prep than there is at Landon.

"To a degree. Both have groups from the same neighborhoods (although they stop associating with one another in 4th grade)"


That is only true of the non-jocks and those who don't pursue girls at the private schools in MoCo. The athletes have ongoing interaction on club teams and invitational tournaments and then socially once they can drive.

We have had three sons go through Prep and they were multi-sport athletes (Football, basketball, track and lacrosse). They and their large network of friends had no contact with the Landon kids except at parties hosted by Holton girls and at these the interaction was uncomfortable. Integrated club teams are pretty much over by the 9th grade.

There are isolated examples of friendships, but in general an animosity overlays the relationship between the two schools. A Landon magazine article written in the last two years describes the situation. In the 90's it was so bad a joint Landon-GP-St Albans Father's Club meeting was held at Landon to discuss how to decrease the weekend violence that was occuring.