Landon vs. Georgetown Prep Upper School

[Anonymous]

Its not just football players (who have the natural athletic ability to play both sports in college if they choose to) its the sheer lack of quality D1 programs. Because of title IX, D1 programs have been restrained for years. The best lacrosse will always be played in the ACC, hence every ACC team made the NCAA tournament last year and this year.

[Anonymous]

What happens with the Ivy's and selective D3 lax programs, where grades and sat scores actually matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What happens with the Ivy's and selective D3 lax programs, where grades and sat scores actually matter.

Well, they sort of matter. If you think that star lacrosse or football or basketball players have to have the same academic profile as the average student at Ivy League schools, you are operating under a faulty assumption. I have seen many lacrosse players recruited by Ivies and admitted, who wouldn't stand a chance to be admitted without the coaching staffs full involvement in the process. Not a few of these instances have stunned teachers and classmates.


The Ivies use something called the "Academic Index" or AI. It allows the Athletic Department to recruit athletes with lower SATs and GPAs, but it's not a blank check. They can recruit only so many in each Academic Index band. The lower the band requirements, the fewer they can admit. But that lower band is lower than you think it is. Amherst and Williams do the same thing, but I don't believe its a Conference requirement (NESCAC)

If you have a 1250 on the SATs and a class rank in the 60th percentile of your class, you are well within the AI range. (http://home.comcast.net/~charles517/ivyai.html) The 1250 isn 't all that hard especially with a waiver allowing you to take it on an untimed basis several times with extensive coaching between the multiple attempts.


Now the tricky part is that is that the Academic Index is different for the different schools. Penn, for example, can recruit athletes that Harvard cannot because the average non-athlete scores at Harvard are higher than at Penn.

Ivy League recruiting is some of the most aggressive recruiting you'll see. Frequently helped by local DC alumni -- which is border line legal -- they put the full court press on students they think will help their program and that they think they can get past the admissions hurdle.

The schools when questioned about this say that they do the same sort of thing with musicians they need or to meet diversity goals or to satisfy various constitutencies on the campus.

So get if you want to go to an Ivy League school and want to avoid the crowd clawing their way in through studying, competiting for grades and lists of extracurricular activities, get out of the library and start throwing the lacrosse ball against a concrete wall. Since no one ever fails out of the Ivies, you can look forward to graduating with an Ivy degree even though you were mystified in many of the classes.

Want to know why so many people are involving their kids in the sport at an early age and spending big bucks for high school? It's the HOV lane to selective college admissions for the those slightly above the average in class rank.

[Anonymous]

The last post is such a misrpresentation, that it is pathetic.

Yes, the Ivies let in athletes with lower academic qualifications than other students. But the difference is not nearly as great as the post would let you believe. They are very close in qualifcation, albeit lower. There is a floor at an individual student level athlete, not an index that gets applied across the entire pool. Rest assured that student athletes at the Ivies are very smart. They are simply not going to take kids who can't do the work.

If this were true, then the best lacrosse players would be going to the Ivies, instead of the ACC. They are not. The difference between the Ivies and the ACC in lax athletic quality is widening. The Ivies are very good in lax, but they haven't had a national champion in over 10 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The last post is such a misrpresentation, that it is pathetic.

Yes, the Ivies let in athletes with lower academic qualifications than other students. But the difference is not nearly as great as the post would let you believe. They are very close in qualifcation, albeit lower. There is a floor at an individual student level athlete, not an index that gets applied across the entire pool. Rest assured that student athletes at the Ivies are very smart. They are simply not going to take kids who can't do the work.

If this were true, then the best lacrosse players would be going to the Ivies, instead of the ACC. They are not. The difference between the Ivies and the ACC in lax athletic quality is widening. The Ivies are very good in lax, but they haven't had a national champion in over 10 years.

The biggest reason the Ivies can't recruit as well as schools like Hopkins, Syracuse, UVA, etc. is that they can't give athletic scholarships (though they can find ways around this at times). If they could, the gap would be much narrower. And it's not a zero sum game - Cornell in recent memory has been a national contender. Princeton has won it all six times.

The previous poster was right about the API. It was created to prevent an Ivy from admitting a student woefully inferior to the rest of the student population. There are plenty of lax players (and other athletes) who would NEVER even be considered for admission if not for their athletic prowess. There is most certainly an index that spans the entire recruiting class for every Ivy sport.

[Anonymous]

So get if you want to go to an Ivy League school and want to avoid the crowd clawing their way in through studying, competiting for grades and lists of extracurricular activities, get out of the library and start throwing the lacrosse ball against a concrete wall. Since no one ever fails out of the Ivies, you can look forward to graduating with an Ivy degree even though you were mystified in many of the classes.

Want to know why so many people are involving their kids in the sport at an early age and spending big bucks for high school? It's the HOV lane to selective college admissions for the those slightly above the average in class rank.

Though much of what you wrote about the API is correct, these statements above are very misleading. Yes, if you are a top notch athlete, it can very much help your changes to get admitted to a highly selective college. But in the case of lacrosse, there are very few spots available. Most schools bring in a class of between 6-12 lacrosse players a year. That's it. So while playing lacrosse is great on many different level, simply playing the game is not the easiest path to get into a school. It all depends on your child's ability. If he or she is exceptional, then you may have something. If he/she is just "good", then all those hours of practice (as well as the financial cost) may not amount to much.

Also keep in mind that if you're looking for an athletic lacrosse scholarship, your choice narrow even more. Of the Div 1 schools that can offere financial assistance to a lacrosse player, they have only 12.6 scholarships to offer THE ENITRE TEAM. Since an average Div 1 roster has about 40 playres, there are many who get ZERO scholarship moeny. Most get only a partial amount (e.g. 1/8, 1/4, etc.) Only an absolute stud gets a full ride.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The last post is such a misrpresentation, that it is pathetic.

Yes, the Ivies let in athletes with lower academic qualifications than other students. But the difference is not nearly as great as the post would let you believe. They are very close in qualifcation, albeit lower. There is a floor at an individual student level athlete, not an index that gets applied across the entire pool. Rest assured that student athletes at the Ivies are very smart. They are simply not going to take kids who can't do the work.

If this were true, then the best lacrosse players would be going to the Ivies, instead of the ACC. They are not. The difference between the Ivies and the ACC in lax athletic quality is widening. The Ivies are very good in lax, but they haven't had a national champion in over 10 years

This defense of the Ivies is such a misrepresentation it pathetic. Thank goodness its so easy to refute. Do the math. (http://home.comcast.net/~charles517/ivyai.html)

See what Academic Index band you get into with a 1250 SAT score and a class rank in the 60th percentile. Do those numbers sound "very close" to their peers? I'd say they were a long way away from 1600 and the 99th percentile.

The minimum score allowed is 171. You get that by taking .1 of your STA score and adding it to the inverse of your class rank percentile. A plodding student with a good class rank and 1100 can be accepted.

Now you can believe who you want to believe. The previous poster or me. I'm indifferent. But since I have been challenged, let be be more clear. In the past 15 years I have seen some real dummies go off to Ivy League schools and graduate. Graduating wasn't a problem because everyone graduates. Some of these kids were widely recognized as 40 watt bulbs. Brown has been a favorite destination.

There are better athletes at the ACC schools .... but UVA and Duke aren't academic non-entities. Students choose these schools over the Ivies all the time.

[Anonymous]

As a Prep student with one of my longtime best friends at Landon, both of these schools are great. I obviously support Prep, I think that the Jesuit ideas surrounding Prep make it more civil and less like Landon, obviously there are still pranks etc. The biggest thing that bothers me with Landon, is that kids have to play sports which leads to them not taking it seriously unless its lacrosse. All boys schools are great because its easier to focus and ou can have fun in class but stilll get the social aspect of going to mixers, having girls come to sports games, and being close to private girls schools. Georgetown Prep also has the nicest campus I have ever seen. Anyways Dont get turned away from theses schools as some of these people appear to be doing just have your kids shadow and they will definitely choose the school thats right for them

[Anonymous]

The Ivy League Academic Index for recruited athletes:


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/25/sports/before-athletic-recruiting-in-the-ivy-league-some-math.html?n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/Organizations/N/National%20Collegiate%20Athletic%20Assn%20?ref=nationalcollegiateathleticassn

[Anonymous]

As a Landon student, I believe that both schools are great. I have never been a a GP class, but I know that many of my friends love it. In all honesty, Landon and GP are very similiar, and offer great oppurtunities in both academics and athletics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a Landon student, I believe that both schools are great. I have never been a a GP class, but I know that many of my friends love it. In all honesty, Landon and GP are very similiar, and offer great oppurtunities in both academics and athletics

These two schools while similar at a superficial level are radically different fundamentally.

GPrep is close to being 100% Catholics while Catholics at Landon are a rarity. Sure there are some, but these are largely people new to Washington, who don't understand the lay of the land in DC.

GPep is run by the Jesuits and although the number of Priests is shrinking, the Jesuit fundamentals are still in place. Religion and the Catholic faith are big parts of the Prep experience.

For the most part thesre is a strong antipathy between the two student bodies, the alumni and even the parents. A recent article in the Landon magzine made all those observations putting into print what everybody already knows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a Landon student, I believe that both schools are great. I have never been a a GP class, but I know that many of my friends love it. In all honesty, Landon and GP are very similiar, and offer great oppurtunities in both academics and athletics

For whatever reason it seems as if the Landon people hold this opinion that Georgetown Prep is similar to Landon.

The great majority of Georgetown Prep people would say that Gonzaga is a similar school. They beieleve there is a world of difference between Georgetown Prep and Landon.

Many may have considered Gonzaga when there sons applied to Georgetown Prep. Very, very few considered Landon.

[Anonymous]

Could the Prep student (or any other Prep student or parent) comment about the what the classroom environment and teachers are like. Also how much time is spent on homework a night and how many test/quizzes are given a day/week? Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Some remember the Prep of their youth, but read Mark Gauvreau Judge's "God and Man at Georgetown Prep: How I Became a Catholic Despite 20 Years of Catholic Schooling" if you think that Prep is any more than a Catholic School in name only. Prep likes to think that it is as much a Jesuit school as Gonzaga, but it isn't. Read the book.

[Anonymous]

The majority of Landon students enter before 9th grade (some as early as 3rd grade), so there isn't a lot of room for new students in 9th grade. Prep, on the other hand, is one of the few options for all the 8th grade boys leaving Catholic elementary school. So there aren't many choosing between Landon and Prep. That said, both schools cater to the socially adept athletic boys (not the nerds or druggies that fit best at the secular coed schools) -- so their is a natural rivalry. Non-Catholics would tend to be hesitant to send their kids to a Catholic school and most Catholics would prefer a Catholic school to one with a diverse student body.