Landon vs. Georgetown Prep Upper School
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Anonymous
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[i][b]Someone asked if Prep boys were the same as Landon boys in regards to their attitudes towards women, etc, etc. Absolutely. [/b][/i]
Do you think this is due to the fact that both are all boys schools or something within the culture of these schools? We considered and visited both schools, spoke with administrators and teachers, and I have to say that we did walk away with a feeling that some of the men at these schools come across with an air of superiority. This was not true of everyone we met, just enough for us to question if it was the culture of the schools or if certain types of people are attracted to such schools and therefore creates that atmosphere. There are positive things about both schools, this was not one of them and we did not want DS developing this type of attitude/behavior. |
Anonymous
| There is a five year and ten year plan quietly making the rounds to have Landon go co-ed. One plan would start in high school, the other plan would in 3rd. It will never, ever happen. |
Anonymous
| PP -- it would only happen due to financial contraints...much like many parochial high schools around the country. |
Anonymous
| What is the culture at Prep like? I have heard it mentioned as a "homework driven" school; what does that mean? I have also heard mixed reviews about the academics at the school. Have things changed for the worst? What do you think about the administrators and teachers? |
Anonymous
I understand that high school kids often do pranks and that likely only a few of the boys participated, but there's something about putting hot sauce in homeless people's food that really does suggest extreme callousness. Right up there with hurting animals. If those boys were in a public school, they'd likely get a referral for some kind of extra support and monitoring of social-emotional functioning. |
Anonymous
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[quote=Anonymous]What is the culture at Prep like? I have heard it mentioned as a "homework driven" school; what does that mean? I have also heard mixed reviews about the academics at the school. Have things changed for the worst? What do you think about the administrators and teachers? [/quote]
Quite curious as well, would someone who has knowledge about Prep answer these questions? Thanks. |
Anonymous
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One area that hasn't been discussed in this Landon vs. Prep is the whole idea of just how much animosity exists between the two school (alumni, students, parents and even staff members) and the impact of all of this on the high school years and beyond on both the boys and the famiales.
Now this idea will be pooh-poohed by a few and there will be some anecdotes about individual boys being friends after high school offered as proof. But most people who have been close to either school are fully aware that this extreme dislike exists and that it carries over into later years. I attended a meeting of Fathers from both schools held at Landon in the 1990's when weekend fist-fighting had escalated to a really unacceptable level. So when you decide between the two it's like choosing sides for life. (I actually am surprised this is a topic. We had three sons go through GP and we never heard of anyone applying to both schools. GP and Gonzaga maybe. But never, ever GP and Landon. These must be families from out of the area who are applying to both schools). Even if boys are friends in middle school and one goes to Landon and the other GP all real friendship gradually or even quickly stops. Our neighborhood is full of kids from both schools and pretty quickly new high school friendships are formed and the older ones discarded. I've been to too many GP weddings to count and I have never ever seen a Landon kid at any of them. As everybody understands, GP is a Catholic school. The majority of the non-Catholics that go there are boarders and are from countries like Korea. The non-Catholic percentage of the commuting students is quite small and is pretty much limited to the few African-Americans that attend. And my observation is that the Catholic families whose sons attend GP are more likely to be practicing Catholics. So its quite a Catholic place. And given the history of the DC area and the demographics, many of these GP familes are of Irish extraction. The same is largely true at Gonzaga also, although its more diverse. Seeing Catholics at Landon -- given the availability of GP and Gonzaga -- raises a few hackles at GP. GP parents seeing a Landon football or lacrosse with a name on the back that they think might be a Catholic name always seem to react with a rolling of eyeballs and muttering about "commitment to Catholic Education". I have seen a few people who were part of the Maryland-DC Catholic Community send their kids to Landon. After that decision there was always a little tension in the air. Once you do that, you aren't really "in the club" anymore. One of the Catholic at Landon fathers aways gave me a laugh. At football and lacrosse games, he would position himself against the fence in the end zone a few feet on the Landon side. He was surrounded by GP people but it was as if he was saying I'm on the side but just barely. GP isn't for everyone. It is not diverse. Instead its insular, if anything. But the decision which school to attend -- for those few familaies that apply to both schools -- is a true fork-in-the-road defining minute. You and your son(s) aren't going to have it both ways. |
Anonymous
Very well put. It is not just school. It extends to outside school activities as well. Mater Dei (future GP's) will pretty always play Club Blue Lacrosse. Landon Kids will play Next Level. We have also witnessed way you say about the friendships. Once a kids goes to GP, the friendship is pretty hard to maintain. |
Anonymous
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There are quite a few JEWISH athletes at practice. Look on there baseball or lacrosse roster and you should be able to pick out a few names. I do agree with you, there is animosity between Landon and Prep, and it won't ever go away.
Whose to blame, I have no idea. Many Landon people view Mater Dei as a cult, its as bare bones as they come for a school. The anti Landon rhetoric starts at Mater Dei. |
Anonymous
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The anti Landon sentiment is throughout the metro DC area.
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Anonymous
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Who is to blame?
It's a clash of cultures. Mix two chemicals together and you get a reaction. It's neither one's fault. And there's some history here. Some pretty bad behavior on both sides and incidents that have long lives. A number of years ago a GP student was beaten so badly at the Beach that he was hospitalized. I have heard that business about "It's Mater Dei where the trouble starts" from the Landon people. I heard that opinion voiced at the Fathers Meeting I described above. Its way off base. Ned Williams and those people at Mater Dei are pretty mild. They aren't stoking any animosity ... especially among 7th and 8th graders. Now I'm a ex-Prep parent of three athletes who competed in the major sports, so I have only experienced this from one side of the field. It appears to me that the Landon approach to the world and to athletics drives the GP people crazy. They don't like it one bit. Athletics are a big deal at Landon and the only school that has been able to match up to them over the years has been Prep. Just read the comments when Landon players and coaches are interviewed in the paper after games. It's Prep, Prep and more Prep. After GP football went to the Baltimore MIAA and they stopped playing Landon in football, the Landon coach was repeatedly quoted in the papers bemoaning the fact that GP wouldn't schedule them. One might even say that they are a little obsessed. Or that without GP, the Landon athletic program loses its principal focus. The Landon teams are almost always well-coached, tough and seem almost "driven". But at the same there seems to be this British public school expectation that at the end of the game we all should shake hands and be civil. Now I'm not against that, but it doesn't fly with the GP people. Their reaction is more likely to be, "OK you kicked my tail or I kicked yours but that isn't a basis for friendship" Instant culture clash. Many at GP would be perfectly happy replacing Landon as a principal rival with Gonzaga, a school with which GP has a great deal in common. In fact, the recently re-instituted football series with Gonzaga now is much more important than the Landon game for GP. Both are out of Conference and GP and Gonzaga actually do compete for many of the same students. For the Landon people, the GP game is still the one they circle. There isn't any solution to this and ithe animosity isn't going away. I have thought at times that this is a couple that should get a divorce. Let GP go to the Catholic league and let the thing rest for 10 years. |
Anonymous
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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]What is the culture at Prep like? I have heard it mentioned as a "homework driven" school; what does that mean? I have also heard mixed reviews about the academics at the school. Have things changed for the worst? What do you think about the administrators and teachers? [/quote]
Quite curious as well, would someone who has knowledge about Prep answer these questions? Thanks.[/quote] The "culture" of the school? That's a might big ask. Let me take a shot at it. Prep has small classes, some very good teachers and a lot of very bright students. It's possible to get a great education and get into a top college. But, Prep also has some teachers who aren't so good and some students who aren't as bright and they don't work as hard as they might. But through these small classes and exposure to some of the very good teachers, your son will probably get into a better college than he might coming from some other school. Both the top students and the not-top students will get a good education. And there is a lot of homework. So if you have a top student, don't worry. If you have an average student that you want made into a top student, GP isn't the answer. I don't know of any schools that can do that. But the "culture" of the school is goes beyond that. It's the totality of the experience. The whole thing. The student body. The atmosphere on campus. The activities. How the teachers and administrators deal with and relate to you. We had three boys go through GP and each was thrilled. They loved it ... every day of it. They had a tremendous amount of fun and made great life-long friends. We never had any concern about where they were or what they were doing because we knew they were with boys from families that had good values. Each of them looks back on those four years as a wonderful experience and they are still connected to the place. Their high school experience stands in stark contrast to my experience in a large, highly-ranked public school in NY State. It wasn't close to being a wonderful experience. Being a freshman in that place meant running the gauntlet of upperclassmen daily and navigating among the various cliques through the four years. It was a veritable shark tank. Given my own experience, I was very surprised at how well the incoming freshman and Prep were treated by the upperclassmen. How there was this school-wide cameraderie and concern and an understanding that these new kids were a little disoriented. But that they were all "Prep". That's the important part of the "culture" in my view. High school can be a difficult time. I know people who never really recovered from the totality of it. If you can put them someplace where they have a great experience, you and they are very fortunate. By the way, as yet another word of advice, if you are considering GP then you really, really ought to look also at Gonzaga. Don't be spooked by its location. It's location is part of the learning experience. |
Anonymous
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I hate to break it you but Prep has a much higher emphasis in athletics than any of the IAC schools, hence they have a $44million athletic complex. How much did the new George academic center cost to build? $18million. Prep was voted out of the IAC for a wide array of reasons and some of which involved blatant recruiting of other members of the IAC's players.
The Prep community can claim all they want how similar they are in nature to their friends at Gonzaga, ie Jesuit roots, Catholic parishes etc. etc. but the demographics of a St. Albans, Landon, and Prep student are probably more similar than of a kid at Gonzaga. (dont take this the wrong way but there are some very affluent people at Gonzaga who choose to send there kid there vs Prep) Gonzaga pulls in kids from all over the area, from a much wider socioeconomic base, than you say a Prep, STA or Landon - just look at the tuition difference between the schools. I thought GP was surely going to make a move to the WCAC for good under the reign of Father George. Anyone who knew Father George well will tell you he loved athletics and how it brought in fundraising dollars to the school. Now that he was forced out, (the Prep community will deny this), the new headmaster seems less focused on the athletic excellence at Prep and trying to build its academic reputation. (Prep already has excellent academics). From an athletic standpoint, Prep would have no business competing in the WCAC other than lacrosse, swimming and wrestling and hockey. |
Anonymous
| My impression is that Landon is a bastion of male entitlement and good old boy privilege. While this isn't true to a person it is pervasive. There is something very "Mad Men" about the way boys relate to girls and the tenor of the school in general. I don't think the school does a service to its students and wonder how on earth some of these boys adjust to girls in the classroom when they go to college. |
Anonymous
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Yikes -- as a family thinking about one of these schools for our DS, I am appalled. Good god, these families seem paranoid.
I was already wondering if an all boys education was the way to go. This thread has really put things in perspective. |