RTO and No Childcare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid has been working from home since well before Covid. When she and her husband decided to have kids they lined up child care first - the grandparents when the kids were babies and a preschool/daycare once they were toddlers. It never occurred to her for a second that she could watch her kids at home herself and work at the same time. It’s not fair to anyone involved.

Time to return to reality, ladies.

Ugh this is such sexist garbage. As PPs have explained the issue isn’t people trying to WAH with a toddler. It’s tacking on the commuting hours to the workday which = needing even more childcare (this is essentially a sudden pay cut — after care for 2 kids can be $700+ per month).

Also my DH works in private sector IT. He and many other *men* (and women) in his field are fully remote. My DH has enjoyed the work/life balance and being home to coach the kids sports after school, he helps cook dinner, etc.

So it’s not just “ladies” who care about being around for their kids. Sorry your daughter couldn’t find a better father for her kids if you think this way.

You all are just missing the point completely. You have been spoiled and frankly got a little lazy. Here's an idea: stop prioritizing giant houses and big yards. If lessening your commute time is so important, move close to your jobs. Bonus: it's better for the environment. These are ideas that those of us who raised children while working FT before the pandemic did. If we got through it, so can you. Just make better decisions.

Everyone, this woman is just angry because her adult kids finally told her they’re going no contact with her due to her general toxicity and hatefulness.

Give her space here to shout at clouds - she’s had a rough Thanksgiving.

😂 I think it is a fundamental misunderstanding that COVID altered the childcare landscape especially for school-aged care.

This -- if you raised kids or even before Covid you don't understand that parents with kids under age 10 don't have the same options anymore and have to deal with more instability in school schedules. Our school assumes weekday flexibility and availability in a way it never used to while also offering fewer after school programs. I'm on the PTA and we had to fight last year to get guaranteed childcare on Wednesday afternoons when our school does half days for PD -- this school year is the first year that the school can guarantee childcare for anyone who wants it (and will pay for it) so that they can just pick their kids up at the normal time as opposed to 12:30pm. And even the limited number of spots available in previous years only started in 2022 -- there was nothing for parents in 2021. So if, like me, you have a 5th grader this year, you've spent the last four years with either no school at all (Covid Closure 2020-2021), school but no aftercare including on short school days (2021-2022), school and aftercare but limited by lottery with no guarantee you'll get a spot (2022-2024), or school an guaranteed childcare until 3:30 but still limited aftercare spots (2024).

And now my kid is finally old enough that I could just have her home while I WFH without needing childcare and there's renewed demand for RTO. We will make it work with after school activities she can walk to and coordinating with other parents but if she were 7 or 8 that wouldn't be an option -- I couldn't just have her walk the 3/4 of a mile to ballet and then walk to her friend's house from ballet until my DH or I can pick her up at 5:30 like I can now.

FCPS had half-day Mondays for decades, with zero "guaranteed free childcare".

The flexibility absolutely should be there, but arguing that it's "impossibly expensive" and the childcare landscape has changed so much since COVID and that pre-COVID people don't know what they're talking about is completely naïve and lame.

You are used to basically not paying for the child care, and now you just can't fathom doing the budgeting and scrimping -- that EVERYONE actually was doing literally the month before COVID. (it wasn't just decades or years and years before COVID).

+1. It’s been nice to save a sh*t ton of money on childcare and now that they may have to open their wallets and that it’s not as convenient to have to get kids to and from daycare/school care, there’s a million reasons why it’s “impossible”.

And yeah, participation in some after-school activities may not be able to happen. This isn’t new.

And yet none of you gleeful goons can actually articulate *the point* of blanket RTO policies. You’re just thrilled to see someone else *lose* something, as if that somehow helps you or society.

Louder for those in back. I don't understand this mentality. Are people pushing to have kids in crowded aftercare programs (that don't exist) for hours and hours... why? Because they feel guilty about what they did with their own kids? How can you not want better for kids? ALL kids?

I think a lot of people haven’t worked in a long time and don’t understand how the nature of work has changed for office workers. Or they aren’t office workers. They actually think there is a benefit of going into the office and that it’s part of work.

They don’t understand how many people are going into an office to use Teams. They don’t understand how everyone uses Teams to meet because of the ability to share documents and the chat feature. Also the fact many employees are in different locations.

Technology has changed the workforce tremendously. Can you imagine now attending a meeting where you all sit in a conference room, no one has a laptop and someone hands out printed documents? People don’t understand that no longer happens at many workplaces.

Tomorrow I’ll be commuting into the office to use my computer by myself in a conference room for meetings with the UK. No one on the calls is in my city. How does it make sense for me to spend two hours commuting to do that?

If they want to enforce a true RTO like pre-2020 then they need to get rid of Teams, reinstate office phones, and not allow any sort of video conferencing. They also need to change staffing models so that staff aren’t spread out geographically.

At this point requiring full RTO is like requiring us to use phone calls and faxes instead of email. It’s archaic.

I just LOLd at the image of going to a meeting with my "notepad". Do people seriously think that's how work works?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid has been working from home since well before Covid. When she and her husband decided to have kids they lined up child care first - the grandparents when the kids were babies and a preschool/daycare once they were toddlers. It never occurred to her for a second that she could watch her kids at home herself and work at the same time. It’s not fair to anyone involved.

Time to return to reality, ladies.

Ugh this is such sexist garbage. As PPs have explained the issue isn’t people trying to WAH with a toddler. It’s tacking on the commuting hours to the workday which = needing even more childcare (this is essentially a sudden pay cut — after care for 2 kids can be $700+ per month).

Also my DH works in private sector IT. He and many other *men* (and women) in his field are fully remote. My DH has enjoyed the work/life balance and being home to coach the kids sports after school, he helps cook dinner, etc.

So it’s not just “ladies” who care about being around for their kids. Sorry your daughter couldn’t find a better father for her kids if you think this way.

You all are just missing the point completely. You have been spoiled and frankly got a little lazy. Here's an idea: stop prioritizing giant houses and big yards. If lessening your commute time is so important, move close to your jobs. Bonus: it's better for the environment. These are ideas that those of us who raised children while working FT before the pandemic did. If we got through it, so can you. Just make better decisions.

Everyone, this woman is just angry because her adult kids finally told her they’re going no contact with her due to her general toxicity and hatefulness.

Give her space here to shout at clouds - she’s had a rough Thanksgiving.

😂 I think it is a fundamental misunderstanding that COVID altered the childcare landscape especially for school-aged care.

This -- if you raised kids or even before Covid you don't understand that parents with kids under age 10 don't have the same options anymore and have to deal with more instability in school schedules. Our school assumes weekday flexibility and availability in a way it never used to while also offering fewer after school programs. I'm on the PTA and we had to fight last year to get guaranteed childcare on Wednesday afternoons when our school does half days for PD -- this school year is the first year that the school can guarantee childcare for anyone who wants it (and will pay for it) so that they can just pick their kids up at the normal time as opposed to 12:30pm. And even the limited number of spots available in previous years only started in 2022 -- there was nothing for parents in 2021. So if, like me, you have a 5th grader this year, you've spent the last four years with either no school at all (Covid Closure 2020-2021), school but no aftercare including on short school days (2021-2022), school and aftercare but limited by lottery with no guarantee you'll get a spot (2022-2024), or school an guaranteed childcare until 3:30 but still limited aftercare spots (2024).

And now my kid is finally old enough that I could just have her home while I WFH without needing childcare and there's renewed demand for RTO. We will make it work with after school activities she can walk to and coordinating with other parents but if she were 7 or 8 that wouldn't be an option -- I couldn't just have her walk the 3/4 of a mile to ballet and then walk to her friend's house from ballet until my DH or I can pick her up at 5:30 like I can now.

FCPS had half-day Mondays for decades, with zero "guaranteed free childcare".

The flexibility absolutely should be there, but arguing that it's "impossibly expensive" and the childcare landscape has changed so much since COVID and that pre-COVID people don't know what they're talking about is completely naïve and lame.

You are used to basically not paying for the child care, and now you just can't fathom doing the budgeting and scrimping -- that EVERYONE actually was doing literally the month before COVID. (it wasn't just decades or years and years before COVID).

+1. It’s been nice to save a sh*t ton of money on childcare and now that they may have to open their wallets and that it’s not as convenient to have to get kids to and from daycare/school care, there’s a million reasons why it’s “impossible”.

And yeah, participation in some after-school activities may not be able to happen. This isn’t new.

And yet none of you gleeful goons can actually articulate *the point* of blanket RTO policies. You’re just thrilled to see someone else *lose* something, as if that somehow helps you or society.

Louder for those in back. I don't understand this mentality. Are people pushing to have kids in crowded aftercare programs (that don't exist) for hours and hours... why? Because they feel guilty about what they did with their own kids? How can you not want better for kids? ALL kids?

I think a lot of people haven’t worked in a long time and don’t understand how the nature of work has changed for office workers. Or they aren’t office workers. They actually think there is a benefit of going into the office and that it’s part of work.

They don’t understand how many people are going into an office to use Teams. They don’t understand how everyone uses Teams to meet because of the ability to share documents and the chat feature. Also the fact many employees are in different locations.

Technology has changed the workforce tremendously. Can you imagine now attending a meeting where you all sit in a conference room, no one has a laptop and someone hands out printed documents? People don’t understand that no longer happens at many workplaces.

Tomorrow I’ll be commuting into the office to use my computer by myself in a conference room for meetings with the UK. No one on the calls is in my city. How does it make sense for me to spend two hours commuting to do that?

If they want to enforce a true RTO like pre-2020 then they need to get rid of Teams, reinstate office phones, and not allow any sort of video conferencing. They also need to change staffing models so that staff aren’t spread out geographically.

At this point requiring full RTO is like requiring us to use phone calls and faxes instead of email. It’s archaic.

OP here - FED going in 3x a week. These are my in-office days to a tea. Except I am in an office with a closed door (to not disturb the two others in my office) to have Teams meetings with people spread across the world. I bring a lunch (don’t leave my desk, but still can’t count it as working), put in my 8.5 hour day then usually make phone calls on the way home to co-workers in earlier time zones. We don’t have office lunches, no social events, no cafeteria, no happy hours, it really is presence to just be in the office. I work on a military base, so often spend 10 minutes in traffic to get through the gate. My kids on my in-office days are out of the house just shy of 11 hours. I find Musk’s desire to make working more difficult directly contradicts his encouraging people to have more kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid has been working from home since well before Covid. When she and her husband decided to have kids they lined up child care first - the grandparents when the kids were babies and a preschool/daycare once they were toddlers. It never occurred to her for a second that she could watch her kids at home herself and work at the same time. It’s not fair to anyone involved.

Time to return to reality, ladies.

Ugh this is such sexist garbage. As PPs have explained the issue isn’t people trying to WAH with a toddler. It’s tacking on the commuting hours to the workday which = needing even more childcare (this is essentially a sudden pay cut — after care for 2 kids can be $700+ per month).

Also my DH works in private sector IT. He and many other *men* (and women) in his field are fully remote. My DH has enjoyed the work/life balance and being home to coach the kids sports after school, he helps cook dinner, etc.

So it’s not just “ladies” who care about being around for their kids. Sorry your daughter couldn’t find a better father for her kids if you think this way.

You all are just missing the point completely. You have been spoiled and frankly got a little lazy. Here's an idea: stop prioritizing giant houses and big yards. If lessening your commute time is so important, move close to your jobs. Bonus: it's better for the environment. These are ideas that those of us who raised children while working FT before the pandemic did. If we got through it, so can you. Just make better decisions.

Everyone, this woman is just angry because her adult kids finally told her they’re going no contact with her due to her general toxicity and hatefulness.

Give her space here to shout at clouds - she’s had a rough Thanksgiving.

😂 I think it is a fundamental misunderstanding that COVID altered the childcare landscape especially for school-aged care.

This -- if you raised kids or even before Covid you don't understand that parents with kids under age 10 don't have the same options anymore and have to deal with more instability in school schedules. Our school assumes weekday flexibility and availability in a way it never used to while also offering fewer after school programs. I'm on the PTA and we had to fight last year to get guaranteed childcare on Wednesday afternoons when our school does half days for PD -- this school year is the first year that the school can guarantee childcare for anyone who wants it (and will pay for it) so that they can just pick their kids up at the normal time as opposed to 12:30pm. And even the limited number of spots available in previous years only started in 2022 -- there was nothing for parents in 2021. So if, like me, you have a 5th grader this year, you've spent the last four years with either no school at all (Covid Closure 2020-2021), school but no aftercare including on short school days (2021-2022), school and aftercare but limited by lottery with no guarantee you'll get a spot (2022-2024), or school an guaranteed childcare until 3:30 but still limited aftercare spots (2024).

And now my kid is finally old enough that I could just have her home while I WFH without needing childcare and there's renewed demand for RTO. We will make it work with after school activities she can walk to and coordinating with other parents but if she were 7 or 8 that wouldn't be an option -- I couldn't just have her walk the 3/4 of a mile to ballet and then walk to her friend's house from ballet until my DH or I can pick her up at 5:30 like I can now.

FCPS had half-day Mondays for decades, with zero "guaranteed free childcare".

The flexibility absolutely should be there, but arguing that it's "impossibly expensive" and the childcare landscape has changed so much since COVID and that pre-COVID people don't know what they're talking about is completely naïve and lame.

You are used to basically not paying for the child care, and now you just can't fathom doing the budgeting and scrimping -- that EVERYONE actually was doing literally the month before COVID. (it wasn't just decades or years and years before COVID).

+1. It’s been nice to save a sh*t ton of money on childcare and now that they may have to open their wallets and that it’s not as convenient to have to get kids to and from daycare/school care, there’s a million reasons why it’s “impossible”.

And yeah, participation in some after-school activities may not be able to happen. This isn’t new.

And yet none of you gleeful goons can actually articulate *the point* of blanket RTO policies. You’re just thrilled to see someone else *lose* something, as if that somehow helps you or society.

Louder for those in back. I don't understand this mentality. Are people pushing to have kids in crowded aftercare programs (that don't exist) for hours and hours... why? Because they feel guilty about what they did with their own kids? How can you not want better for kids? ALL kids?

I think actually yes. They see kids playing together after school, getting to summer swim team practice in the afternoon, a dad coaching kid soccer etc, moms who are not harried about grocery shopping and cooking in time for family dinner and they are jealous so they are basically yelling at those of is lucky enough to WFH

Definitely no one cares about "better for kids" unless it's their own kids. I mean the election showed people only care about themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid has been working from home since well before Covid. When she and her husband decided to have kids they lined up child care first - the grandparents when the kids were babies and a preschool/daycare once they were toddlers. It never occurred to her for a second that she could watch her kids at home herself and work at the same time. It’s not fair to anyone involved.

Time to return to reality, ladies.

Ugh this is such sexist garbage. As PPs have explained the issue isn’t people trying to WAH with a toddler. It’s tacking on the commuting hours to the workday which = needing even more childcare (this is essentially a sudden pay cut — after care for 2 kids can be $700+ per month).

Also my DH works in private sector IT. He and many other *men* (and women) in his field are fully remote. My DH has enjoyed the work/life balance and being home to coach the kids sports after school, he helps cook dinner, etc.

So it’s not just “ladies” who care about being around for their kids. Sorry your daughter couldn’t find a better father for her kids if you think this way.

You all are just missing the point completely. You have been spoiled and frankly got a little lazy. Here's an idea: stop prioritizing giant houses and big yards. If lessening your commute time is so important, move close to your jobs. Bonus: it's better for the environment. These are ideas that those of us who raised children while working FT before the pandemic did. If we got through it, so can you. Just make better decisions.

Everyone, this woman is just angry because her adult kids finally told her they’re going no contact with her due to her general toxicity and hatefulness.

Give her space here to shout at clouds - she’s had a rough Thanksgiving.

😂 I think it is a fundamental misunderstanding that COVID altered the childcare landscape especially for school-aged care.

This -- if you raised kids or even before Covid you don't understand that parents with kids under age 10 don't have the same options anymore and have to deal with more instability in school schedules. Our school assumes weekday flexibility and availability in a way it never used to while also offering fewer after school programs. I'm on the PTA and we had to fight last year to get guaranteed childcare on Wednesday afternoons when our school does half days for PD -- this school year is the first year that the school can guarantee childcare for anyone who wants it (and will pay for it) so that they can just pick their kids up at the normal time as opposed to 12:30pm. And even the limited number of spots available in previous years only started in 2022 -- there was nothing for parents in 2021. So if, like me, you have a 5th grader this year, you've spent the last four years with either no school at all (Covid Closure 2020-2021), school but no aftercare including on short school days (2021-2022), school and aftercare but limited by lottery with no guarantee you'll get a spot (2022-2024), or school an guaranteed childcare until 3:30 but still limited aftercare spots (2024).

And now my kid is finally old enough that I could just have her home while I WFH without needing childcare and there's renewed demand for RTO. We will make it work with after school activities she can walk to and coordinating with other parents but if she were 7 or 8 that wouldn't be an option -- I couldn't just have her walk the 3/4 of a mile to ballet and then walk to her friend's house from ballet until my DH or I can pick her up at 5:30 like I can now.

FCPS had half-day Mondays for decades, with zero "guaranteed free childcare".

The flexibility absolutely should be there, but arguing that it's "impossibly expensive" and the childcare landscape has changed so much since COVID and that pre-COVID people don't know what they're talking about is completely naïve and lame.

You are used to basically not paying for the child care, and now you just can't fathom doing the budgeting and scrimping -- that EVERYONE actually was doing literally the month before COVID. (it wasn't just decades or years and years before COVID).

+1. It’s been nice to save a sh*t ton of money on childcare and now that they may have to open their wallets and that it’s not as convenient to have to get kids to and from daycare/school care, there’s a million reasons why it’s “impossible”.

And yeah, participation in some after-school activities may not be able to happen. This isn’t new.

And yet none of you gleeful goons can actually articulate *the point* of blanket RTO policies. You’re just thrilled to see someone else *lose* something, as if that somehow helps you or society.

Louder for those in back. I don't understand this mentality. Are people pushing to have kids in crowded aftercare programs (that don't exist) for hours and hours... why? Because they feel guilty about what they did with their own kids? How can you not want better for kids? ALL kids?

I think a lot of people haven’t worked in a long time and don’t understand how the nature of work has changed for office workers. Or they aren’t office workers. They actually think there is a benefit of going into the office and that it’s part of work.

They don’t understand how many people are going into an office to use Teams. They don’t understand how everyone uses Teams to meet because of the ability to share documents and the chat feature. Also the fact many employees are in different locations.

Technology has changed the workforce tremendously. Can you imagine now attending a meeting where you all sit in a conference room, no one has a laptop and someone hands out printed documents? People don’t understand that no longer happens at many workplaces.

Tomorrow I’ll be commuting into the office to use my computer by myself in a conference room for meetings with the UK. No one on the calls is in my city. How does it make sense for me to spend two hours commuting to do that?

If they want to enforce a true RTO like pre-2020 then they need to get rid of Teams, reinstate office phones, and not allow any sort of video conferencing. They also need to change staffing models so that staff aren’t spread out geographically.

At this point requiring full RTO is like requiring us to use phone calls and faxes instead of email. It’s archaic.

OP here - FED going in 3x a week. These are my in-office days to a tea. Except I am in an office with a closed door (to not disturb the two others in my office) to have Teams meetings with people spread across the world. I bring a lunch (don’t leave my desk, but still can’t count it as working), put in my 8.5 hour day then usually make phone calls on the way home to co-workers in earlier time zones. We don’t have office lunches, no social events, no cafeteria, no happy hours, it really is presence to just be in the office. I work on a military base, so often spend 10 minutes in traffic to get through the gate. My kids on my in-office days are out of the house just shy of 11 hours. I find Musk’s desire to make working more difficult directly contradicts his encouraging people to have more kids.

You say you work on a military base so I’m guessing stuff you work on or at least is around you is TS. WFH with whatever internet you think is secure with kids on the same WiFi downloading who knows what is dangerous.

A close family member and another friend worked or work in admissions at Ivy or equivalent. Just in admissions there are rules due to the internet because of people’s files. A friend before they worked in the office was a at-home reader. The university gave them this giant computer (this is within the last 8 years) and set up the internet in the home. Last I heard they no longer do that due to security reasons.

Another friend during Covid had his company set up his office with computers and a separate secure internet connection (private sector). There is also cameras in that office of his home with someone/compliance officer monitoring. It apparently cost a fortune but the company set it all up.

Even at the university level foreign countries are trying to get in. The government should be doing better. If someone wants to hack one of the easiest ways would probably be accessing an employee while they WFH on their WiFi.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid has been working from home since well before Covid. When she and her husband decided to have kids they lined up child care first - the grandparents when the kids were babies and a preschool/daycare once they were toddlers. It never occurred to her for a second that she could watch her kids at home herself and work at the same time. It’s not fair to anyone involved.

Time to return to reality, ladies.

Ugh this is such sexist garbage. As PPs have explained the issue isn’t people trying to WAH with a toddler. It’s tacking on the commuting hours to the workday which = needing even more childcare (this is essentially a sudden pay cut — after care for 2 kids can be $700+ per month).

Also my DH works in private sector IT. He and many other *men* (and women) in his field are fully remote. My DH has enjoyed the work/life balance and being home to coach the kids sports after school, he helps cook dinner, etc.

So it’s not just “ladies” who care about being around for their kids. Sorry your daughter couldn’t find a better father for her kids if you think this way.

You all are just missing the point completely. You have been spoiled and frankly got a little lazy. Here's an idea: stop prioritizing giant houses and big yards. If lessening your commute time is so important, move close to your jobs. Bonus: it's better for the environment. These are ideas that those of us who raised children while working FT before the pandemic did. If we got through it, so can you. Just make better decisions.

Everyone, this woman is just angry because her adult kids finally told her they’re going no contact with her due to her general toxicity and hatefulness.

Give her space here to shout at clouds - she’s had a rough Thanksgiving.

😂 I think it is a fundamental misunderstanding that COVID altered the childcare landscape especially for school-aged care.

This -- if you raised kids or even before Covid you don't understand that parents with kids under age 10 don't have the same options anymore and have to deal with more instability in school schedules. Our school assumes weekday flexibility and availability in a way it never used to while also offering fewer after school programs. I'm on the PTA and we had to fight last year to get guaranteed childcare on Wednesday afternoons when our school does half days for PD -- this school year is the first year that the school can guarantee childcare for anyone who wants it (and will pay for it) so that they can just pick their kids up at the normal time as opposed to 12:30pm. And even the limited number of spots available in previous years only started in 2022 -- there was nothing for parents in 2021. So if, like me, you have a 5th grader this year, you've spent the last four years with either no school at all (Covid Closure 2020-2021), school but no aftercare including on short school days (2021-2022), school and aftercare but limited by lottery with no guarantee you'll get a spot (2022-2024), or school an guaranteed childcare until 3:30 but still limited aftercare spots (2024).

And now my kid is finally old enough that I could just have her home while I WFH without needing childcare and there's renewed demand for RTO. We will make it work with after school activities she can walk to and coordinating with other parents but if she were 7 or 8 that wouldn't be an option -- I couldn't just have her walk the 3/4 of a mile to ballet and then walk to her friend's house from ballet until my DH or I can pick her up at 5:30 like I can now.

FCPS had half-day Mondays for decades, with zero "guaranteed free childcare".

The flexibility absolutely should be there, but arguing that it's "impossibly expensive" and the childcare landscape has changed so much since COVID and that pre-COVID people don't know what they're talking about is completely naïve and lame.

You are used to basically not paying for the child care, and now you just can't fathom doing the budgeting and scrimping -- that EVERYONE actually was doing literally the month before COVID. (it wasn't just decades or years and years before COVID).

+1. It’s been nice to save a sh*t ton of money on childcare and now that they may have to open their wallets and that it’s not as convenient to have to get kids to and from daycare/school care, there’s a million reasons why it’s “impossible”.

And yeah, participation in some after-school activities may not be able to happen. This isn’t new.

And yet none of you gleeful goons can actually articulate *the point* of blanket RTO policies. You’re just thrilled to see someone else *lose* something, as if that somehow helps you or society.

Louder for those in back. I don't understand this mentality. Are people pushing to have kids in crowded aftercare programs (that don't exist) for hours and hours... why? Because they feel guilty about what they did with their own kids? How can you not want better for kids? ALL kids?

I think actually yes. They see kids playing together after school, getting to summer swim team practice in the afternoon, a dad coaching kid soccer etc, moms who are not harried about grocery shopping and cooking in time for family dinner and they are jealous so they are basically yelling at those of is lucky enough to WFH

Definitely no one cares about "better for kids" unless it's their own kids. I mean the election showed people only care about themselves.

They are not working from home if they are doing all that. My place pre-covid was very very strict on in person. And strict on work house. But had zero OT and the majority of people lived very close to office.

On paper someone who is a Mom or Dad with Kids my job who works 8-430 in person with a 10 minute commute should only have 20 minutes extra free time a day. But in reality it is running to starbucks, gettting fedex packages, meeting friends for lunch, throwing in laundry, going to super market, picking kids up at bus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid has been working from home since well before Covid. When she and her husband decided to have kids they lined up child care first - the grandparents when the kids were babies and a preschool/daycare once they were toddlers. It never occurred to her for a second that she could watch her kids at home herself and work at the same time. It’s not fair to anyone involved.

Time to return to reality, ladies.

Ugh this is such sexist garbage. As PPs have explained the issue isn’t people trying to WAH with a toddler. It’s tacking on the commuting hours to the workday which = needing even more childcare (this is essentially a sudden pay cut — after care for 2 kids can be $700+ per month).

Also my DH works in private sector IT. He and many other *men* (and women) in his field are fully remote. My DH has enjoyed the work/life balance and being home to coach the kids sports after school, he helps cook dinner, etc.

So it’s not just “ladies” who care about being around for their kids. Sorry your daughter couldn’t find a better father for her kids if you think this way.

You all are just missing the point completely. You have been spoiled and frankly got a little lazy. Here's an idea: stop prioritizing giant houses and big yards. If lessening your commute time is so important, move close to your jobs. Bonus: it's better for the environment. These are ideas that those of us who raised children while working FT before the pandemic did. If we got through it, so can you. Just make better decisions.

Everyone, this woman is just angry because her adult kids finally told her they’re going no contact with her due to her general toxicity and hatefulness.

Give her space here to shout at clouds - she’s had a rough Thanksgiving.

😂 I think it is a fundamental misunderstanding that COVID altered the childcare landscape especially for school-aged care.

This -- if you raised kids or even before Covid you don't understand that parents with kids under age 10 don't have the same options anymore and have to deal with more instability in school schedules. Our school assumes weekday flexibility and availability in a way it never used to while also offering fewer after school programs. I'm on the PTA and we had to fight last year to get guaranteed childcare on Wednesday afternoons when our school does half days for PD -- this school year is the first year that the school can guarantee childcare for anyone who wants it (and will pay for it) so that they can just pick their kids up at the normal time as opposed to 12:30pm. And even the limited number of spots available in previous years only started in 2022 -- there was nothing for parents in 2021. So if, like me, you have a 5th grader this year, you've spent the last four years with either no school at all (Covid Closure 2020-2021), school but no aftercare including on short school days (2021-2022), school and aftercare but limited by lottery with no guarantee you'll get a spot (2022-2024), or school an guaranteed childcare until 3:30 but still limited aftercare spots (2024).

And now my kid is finally old enough that I could just have her home while I WFH without needing childcare and there's renewed demand for RTO. We will make it work with after school activities she can walk to and coordinating with other parents but if she were 7 or 8 that wouldn't be an option -- I couldn't just have her walk the 3/4 of a mile to ballet and then walk to her friend's house from ballet until my DH or I can pick her up at 5:30 like I can now.

FCPS had half-day Mondays for decades, with zero "guaranteed free childcare".

The flexibility absolutely should be there, but arguing that it's "impossibly expensive" and the childcare landscape has changed so much since COVID and that pre-COVID people don't know what they're talking about is completely naïve and lame.

You are used to basically not paying for the child care, and now you just can't fathom doing the budgeting and scrimping -- that EVERYONE actually was doing literally the month before COVID. (it wasn't just decades or years and years before COVID).

+1. It’s been nice to save a sh*t ton of money on childcare and now that they may have to open their wallets and that it’s not as convenient to have to get kids to and from daycare/school care, there’s a million reasons why it’s “impossible”.

And yeah, participation in some after-school activities may not be able to happen. This isn’t new.

And yet none of you gleeful goons can actually articulate *the point* of blanket RTO policies. You’re just thrilled to see someone else *lose* something, as if that somehow helps you or society.

Louder for those in back. I don't understand this mentality. Are people pushing to have kids in crowded aftercare programs (that don't exist) for hours and hours... why? Because they feel guilty about what they did with their own kids? How can you not want better for kids? ALL kids?

I think actually yes. They see kids playing together after school, getting to summer swim team practice in the afternoon, a dad coaching kid soccer etc, moms who are not harried about grocery shopping and cooking in time for family dinner and they are jealous so they are basically yelling at those of is lucky enough to WFH

Definitely no one cares about "better for kids" unless it's their own kids. I mean the election showed people only care about themselves.

They are not working from home if they are doing all that. My place pre-covid was very very strict on in person. And strict on work house. But had zero OT and the majority of people lived very close to office.

On paper someone who is a Mom or Dad with Kids my job who works 8-430 in person with a 10 minute commute should only have 20 minutes extra free time a day. But in reality it is running to starbucks, gettting fedex packages, meeting friends for lunch, throwing in laundry, going to super market, picking kids up at bus

Who has a 10 min commute, especially in the DMV? Lmao - most commutes are 40+ mins (and I live well inside the beltway). So actually it's an extra 1.5 hrs a day and what I described above fits into that time slot.

[Anonymous]

The RTO push is largely to try to get all workers in and working at the same time.

Schools and afterschool programs will need to expand and add classrooms again. When Covid happened and people stopped using the services there wasn’t a reason to keep staff around and so many of these programs were cut entirely or reduced. If parents need to be back in the office is the same programs will need to be expanded again. They will need staff to work so if there’s a proper ratios. And that will need to happen first, so that kids have somewhere to be when their parents go back to the office. This needs to be a planned effort.

[Anonymous]

I literally had to quit my job after my son was born because I couldn’t get childcare. This was after paying $500 non-refundable fee (bribe?) to get on a “priority waitlist”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The issue for me is the 8-6 in office requirement. Right now, I work 8-5, pick up my kids, and then work a few more hours at home in the evening. Daycare closes at 6 and I have a 45 minute commute, so I'm not sure what I will go if the 8-6 requirement goes into effect.

You have a scheduled 50 hour work week, in office?

I often work 50 hours but am scheduled for 40. RTO would be 8.5 hours/day: 8 hours work, .5 hour for lunch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid has been working from home since well before Covid. When she and her husband decided to have kids they lined up child care first - the grandparents when the kids were babies and a preschool/daycare once they were toddlers. It never occurred to her for a second that she could watch her kids at home herself and work at the same time. It’s not fair to anyone involved.

Time to return to reality, ladies.

Ugh this is such sexist garbage. As PPs have explained the issue isn’t people trying to WAH with a toddler. It’s tacking on the commuting hours to the workday which = needing even more childcare (this is essentially a sudden pay cut — after care for 2 kids can be $700+ per month).

Also my DH works in private sector IT. He and many other *men* (and women) in his field are fully remote. My DH has enjoyed the work/life balance and being home to coach the kids sports after school, he helps cook dinner, etc.

So it’s not just “ladies” who care about being around for their kids. Sorry your daughter couldn’t find a better father for her kids if you think this way.

You all are just missing the point completely. You have been spoiled and frankly got a little lazy. Here's an idea: stop prioritizing giant houses and big yards. If lessening your commute time is so important, move close to your jobs. Bonus: it's better for the environment. These are ideas that those of us who raised children while working FT before the pandemic did. If we got through it, so can you. Just make better decisions.

Everyone, this woman is just angry because her adult kids finally told her they’re going no contact with her due to her general toxicity and hatefulness.

Give her space here to shout at clouds - she’s had a rough Thanksgiving.

😂 I think it is a fundamental misunderstanding that COVID altered the childcare landscape especially for school-aged care.

This -- if you raised kids or even before Covid you don't understand that parents with kids under age 10 don't have the same options anymore and have to deal with more instability in school schedules. Our school assumes weekday flexibility and availability in a way it never used to while also offering fewer after school programs. I'm on the PTA and we had to fight last year to get guaranteed childcare on Wednesday afternoons when our school does half days for PD -- this school year is the first year that the school can guarantee childcare for anyone who wants it (and will pay for it) so that they can just pick their kids up at the normal time as opposed to 12:30pm. And even the limited number of spots available in previous years only started in 2022 -- there was nothing for parents in 2021. So if, like me, you have a 5th grader this year, you've spent the last four years with either no school at all (Covid Closure 2020-2021), school but no aftercare including on short school days (2021-2022), school and aftercare but limited by lottery with no guarantee you'll get a spot (2022-2024), or school an guaranteed childcare until 3:30 but still limited aftercare spots (2024).

And now my kid is finally old enough that I could just have her home while I WFH without needing childcare and there's renewed demand for RTO. We will make it work with after school activities she can walk to and coordinating with other parents but if she were 7 or 8 that wouldn't be an option -- I couldn't just have her walk the 3/4 of a mile to ballet and then walk to her friend's house from ballet until my DH or I can pick her up at 5:30 like I can now.

FCPS had half-day Mondays for decades, with zero "guaranteed free childcare".

The flexibility absolutely should be there, but arguing that it's "impossibly expensive" and the childcare landscape has changed so much since COVID and that pre-COVID people don't know what they're talking about is completely naïve and lame.

You are used to basically not paying for the child care, and now you just can't fathom doing the budgeting and scrimping -- that EVERYONE actually was doing literally the month before COVID. (it wasn't just decades or years and years before COVID).

+1. It’s been nice to save a sh*t ton of money on childcare and now that they may have to open their wallets and that it’s not as convenient to have to get kids to and from daycare/school care, there’s a million reasons why it’s “impossible”.

And yeah, participation in some after-school activities may not be able to happen. This isn’t new.

And yet none of you gleeful goons can actually articulate *the point* of blanket RTO policies. You’re just thrilled to see someone else *lose* something, as if that somehow helps you or society.

Louder for those in back. I don't understand this mentality. Are people pushing to have kids in crowded aftercare programs (that don't exist) for hours and hours... why? Because they feel guilty about what they did with their own kids? How can you not want better for kids? ALL kids?

I think actually yes. They see kids playing together after school, getting to summer swim team practice in the afternoon, a dad coaching kid soccer etc, moms who are not harried about grocery shopping and cooking in time for family dinner and they are jealous so they are basically yelling at those of is lucky enough to WFH

Definitely no one cares about "better for kids" unless it's their own kids. I mean the election showed people only care about themselves.

They are not working from home if they are doing all that. My place pre-covid was very very strict on in person. And strict on work house. But had zero OT and the majority of people lived very close to office.

On paper someone who is a Mom or Dad with Kids my job who works 8-430 in person with a 10 minute commute should only have 20 minutes extra free time a day. But in reality it is running to starbucks, gettting fedex packages, meeting friends for lunch, throwing in laundry, going to super market, picking kids up at bus

10 minute commute, 😂. If the majority of DMV Feds had a 10 minute commute there wouldn’t be so much hand-wringing about RTO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue for me is the 8-6 in office requirement. Right now, I work 8-5, pick up my kids, and then work a few more hours at home in the evening. Daycare closes at 6 and I have a 45 minute commute, so I'm not sure what I will go if the 8-6 requirement goes into effect.

You have a scheduled 50 hour work week, in office?

I often work 50 hours but am scheduled for 40. RTO would be 8.5 hours/day: 8 hours work, .5 hour for lunch.

The 8-6 thing is something Vivek said in an interview to Tucker Carlson. That's what people are reacting to.

Of all of the things, that is the one least likely to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The RTO push is largely to try to get all workers in and working at the same time.

Schools and afterschool programs will need to expand and add classrooms again. When Covid happened and people stopped using the services there wasn’t a reason to keep staff around and so many of these programs were cut entirely or reduced. If parents need to be back in the office is the same programs will need to be expanded again. They will need staff to work so if there’s a proper ratios. And that will need to happen first, so that kids have somewhere to be when their parents go back to the office. This needs to be a planned effort.

I think parents will quit or change jobs before this happens on a large scale again. People don’t want that lifestyle anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid has been working from home since well before Covid. When she and her husband decided to have kids they lined up child care first - the grandparents when the kids were babies and a preschool/daycare once they were toddlers. It never occurred to her for a second that she could watch her kids at home herself and work at the same time. It’s not fair to anyone involved.

Time to return to reality, ladies.

Ugh this is such sexist garbage. As PPs have explained the issue isn’t people trying to WAH with a toddler. It’s tacking on the commuting hours to the workday which = needing even more childcare (this is essentially a sudden pay cut — after care for 2 kids can be $700+ per month).

Also my DH works in private sector IT. He and many other *men* (and women) in his field are fully remote. My DH has enjoyed the work/life balance and being home to coach the kids sports after school, he helps cook dinner, etc.

So it’s not just “ladies” who care about being around for their kids. Sorry your daughter couldn’t find a better father for her kids if you think this way.

You all are just missing the point completely. You have been spoiled and frankly got a little lazy. Here's an idea: stop prioritizing giant houses and big yards. If lessening your commute time is so important, move close to your jobs. Bonus: it's better for the environment. These are ideas that those of us who raised children while working FT before the pandemic did. If we got through it, so can you. Just make better decisions.

Everyone, this woman is just angry because her adult kids finally told her they’re going no contact with her due to her general toxicity and hatefulness.

Give her space here to shout at clouds - she’s had a rough Thanksgiving.

😂 I think it is a fundamental misunderstanding that COVID altered the childcare landscape especially for school-aged care.

This -- if you raised kids or even before Covid you don't understand that parents with kids under age 10 don't have the same options anymore and have to deal with more instability in school schedules. Our school assumes weekday flexibility and availability in a way it never used to while also offering fewer after school programs. I'm on the PTA and we had to fight last year to get guaranteed childcare on Wednesday afternoons when our school does half days for PD -- this school year is the first year that the school can guarantee childcare for anyone who wants it (and will pay for it) so that they can just pick their kids up at the normal time as opposed to 12:30pm. And even the limited number of spots available in previous years only started in 2022 -- there was nothing for parents in 2021. So if, like me, you have a 5th grader this year, you've spent the last four years with either no school at all (Covid Closure 2020-2021), school but no aftercare including on short school days (2021-2022), school and aftercare but limited by lottery with no guarantee you'll get a spot (2022-2024), or school an guaranteed childcare until 3:30 but still limited aftercare spots (2024).

And now my kid is finally old enough that I could just have her home while I WFH without needing childcare and there's renewed demand for RTO. We will make it work with after school activities she can walk to and coordinating with other parents but if she were 7 or 8 that wouldn't be an option -- I couldn't just have her walk the 3/4 of a mile to ballet and then walk to her friend's house from ballet until my DH or I can pick her up at 5:30 like I can now.

FCPS had half-day Mondays for decades, with zero "guaranteed free childcare".

The flexibility absolutely should be there, but arguing that it's "impossibly expensive" and the childcare landscape has changed so much since COVID and that pre-COVID people don't know what they're talking about is completely naïve and lame.

You are used to basically not paying for the child care, and now you just can't fathom doing the budgeting and scrimping -- that EVERYONE actually was doing literally the month before COVID. (it wasn't just decades or years and years before COVID).

+1. It’s been nice to save a sh*t ton of money on childcare and now that they may have to open their wallets and that it’s not as convenient to have to get kids to and from daycare/school care, there’s a million reasons why it’s “impossible”.

And yeah, participation in some after-school activities may not be able to happen. This isn’t new.

And yet none of you gleeful goons can actually articulate *the point* of blanket RTO policies. You’re just thrilled to see someone else *lose* something, as if that somehow helps you or society.

Louder for those in back. I don't understand this mentality. Are people pushing to have kids in crowded aftercare programs (that don't exist) for hours and hours... why? Because they feel guilty about what they did with their own kids? How can you not want better for kids? ALL kids?

I think actually yes. They see kids playing together after school, getting to summer swim team practice in the afternoon, a dad coaching kid soccer etc, moms who are not harried about grocery shopping and cooking in time for family dinner and they are jealous so they are basically yelling at those of is lucky enough to WFH

Definitely no one cares about "better for kids" unless it's their own kids. I mean the election showed people only care about themselves.

My job, like many in the DC area, is not remote-work compatible. But I can still recognize that WFH is good for kids, parents, the environment, and society in general.

And on a selfish note, it’s even good for those of us who can’t partake. Fewer people commuting means less time in traffic for me. Fewer people scrambling for aftercare, summer camps, babysitters, etc. means more choices and less stress for me and my own kids who actually need to utilize those services. The more people who are able to move out of expensive urban areas like DC, the more reasonable housing for those who actually need to be here. Etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The RTO push is largely to try to get all workers in and working at the same time.

Schools and afterschool programs will need to expand and add classrooms again. When Covid happened and people stopped using the services there wasn’t a reason to keep staff around and so many of these programs were cut entirely or reduced. If parents need to be back in the office is the same programs will need to be expanded again. They will need staff to work so if there’s a proper ratios. And that will need to happen first, so that kids have somewhere to be when their parents go back to the office. This needs to be a planned effort.

After covid, the same thing was supposed to happen but didn't. People did go to the office more, but childcare availability didn't keep up.

If anything, this will be a boon to contractors that can offer more flexibility. I suspect that is what DOGE wants (guess who will run those contractors?).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In 2021, I had two kids in childcare. $600 per week. Now I have one. $500 per week.

People will have to quit. My bet is that is the design of the thing. There are fewer childcare spots now. I would be bullish on an expanded child tax credit, but I bet it doesn’t happen, rhetoric about family values aside.

No one will quit. People were paying for this before 2020, they will pay for it again.

You don’t think some people will quit or move away over a 40% increase in childcare costs, a housing boom that has made living close to work increasingly expensive, and a general increase in life stress due to commuting?

Many fed employees are like GS9 level and living outside the beltway. Ever increasing daycare bills and commuting costs may very well cause them to decide this isn’t financially worth it anymore. But you don’t really care if they get pushed out of the workforce do you?

Federal jobs are in high demand. For the few who do quit (rather than just tantrum and threaten), they’ll be easily and expeditiously replaced.

+1. I'm a fed in HR and we have hundreds of applications for every job posting, so many that we often cut them off at a certain number, or advertise for only a limited time.

Yeah you get a lot of applicants because fed jobs are supposed to be secure and offer good work/life balance.

Do you really think you’re going to get the same number of applicants if suddenly RIFs are happening and there is a strict in office requirement?

Although I don’t even think people laid off or who quit will be replaced so there will be zero applications anyway.