Top traffic cameras bring in $1 million PER WEEK

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there evidence that traffic cameras have made DC safer? Obviously, people slow down when there's cameras. But the flip side is that people drive worse when they know we've turned traffic enforcement over to the cameras and, if you're on a street with no cameras (which is most of them), you can do anything you want. How do we know those two things net out to something better than when we didn't have cameras and motorists had to worry about cops pulling them over?

Yes, there is evidence that traffic cameras make streets safer. There's no asterisk for *except in DC.

Here's the number of people in DC killed by speeding drivers in past dozen years. Kindly point out to us where traffic cameras started making a difference.

2022 -- 9
2021 -- 12
2020 -- 15
2019 -- 10
2018 -- 9
2017 -- 12
2016 -- 8
2015 -- 11
2014 -- 12
2013 -- 11
2012 -- 5
2011 -- 15
2010 -- 8

Note: the higher numbers cited in another post include ALL traffic deaths, which include people killed by drunk and stoned drivers, pedestrians stepping in front of buses, motorists having heart attacks, etc. Obviously traffic cameras can't possibly do anything about those.

Bueller?....Bueller?...Bueller?

There have been multiple responses to your post. You just don't like the responses.

Actually, no one has answered the question. Tell us: which year is it?

You wouldnt think this would be that hard of a question if traffic cameras actually reduce deaths.

You: Here are the last 6 times Mercury was in retrograde. How does this affect pizza delivery times? It should be an easy question to answer!

In other words, your question is based on inaccurate data and false premises. Multiple posters have explained this to you.

All we've gotten is a lot of evasive non-answers and poor analogies. Again:

Here's the number of people in DC killed by speeding drivers in past dozen years. Kindly point out to us where traffic cameras started making a difference.

2022 -- 9
2021 -- 12
2020 -- 15
2019 -- 10
2018 -- 9
2017 -- 12
2016 -- 8
2015 -- 11
2014 -- 12
2013 -- 11
2012 -- 5
2011 -- 15
2010 -- 8

Note: the higher numbers cited in another post include ALL traffic deaths, which include people killed by drunk and stoned drivers, pedestrians stepping in front of buses, motorists having heart attacks, etc. Obviously traffic cameras can't possibly do anything about those.

Absent medical events, deaths require force. Force requires speed. I’m sorry that this basic logic escapes you.

It’s not impossible for a car traveling 25mph to kill someone, but it’s unusual. Regardless of what factors MPD opts to designate as the primary cause (and they should probably not be doing this, as it’s scientifically vacuous), we can safely presume that speed was a factor in most fatal crashes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there evidence that traffic cameras have made DC safer? Obviously, people slow down when there's cameras. But the flip side is that people drive worse when they know we've turned traffic enforcement over to the cameras and, if you're on a street with no cameras (which is most of them), you can do anything you want. How do we know those two things net out to something better than when we didn't have cameras and motorists had to worry about cops pulling them over?

Yes, there is evidence that traffic cameras make streets safer. There's no asterisk for *except in DC.

Here's the number of people in DC killed by speeding drivers in past dozen years. Kindly point out to us where traffic cameras started making a difference.

2022 -- 9
2021 -- 12
2020 -- 15
2019 -- 10
2018 -- 9
2017 -- 12
2016 -- 8
2015 -- 11
2014 -- 12
2013 -- 11
2012 -- 5
2011 -- 15
2010 -- 8

Note: the higher numbers cited in another post include ALL traffic deaths, which include people killed by drunk and stoned drivers, pedestrians stepping in front of buses, motorists having heart attacks, etc. Obviously traffic cameras can't possibly do anything about those.

Bueller?....Bueller?...Bueller?

There have been multiple responses to your post. You just don't like the responses.

Actually, no one has answered the question. Tell us: which year is it?

You wouldnt think this would be that hard of a question if traffic cameras actually reduce deaths.

You: Here are the last 6 times Mercury was in retrograde. How does this affect pizza delivery times? It should be an easy question to answer!

In other words, your question is based on inaccurate data and false premises. Multiple posters have explained this to you.

It's more like you didn't like that PP took the time to filter out the incidents in which speeding wasn't the determining factor.

Either way both sets of numbers have been pretty consistent in their pattern and there has not been a noticeable impact from the installation of cameras.

I don't like that PP took the time and went to extra effort to produce even more inaccurate data, yes, you're right. Speaking abstractly, of course. If PP wants to waste their own time and effort that way, that's up to them.

It's not less accurate to filter by cause. But you should have noticed that they didn't provide the 2023 numbers.

The two things that stand out from both sets of data is that there was an initial drop between 2009-2011 and a big spike from 2022-2023. That drop could possibly indicate the speed cameras have an initial impact. But the quick reversion to the mean afterward would indicate either that the impact is short lived.

The spike is more interesting because that is the time frame when the realization that the police were no longer enforcing traffic took hold. If anything the data shows that automated cameras are not not a replacement for enforcement by humans.

It absolutely is less accurate. As has been explained. PP is cherry-picking numbers and then complaining that people don't want to engage with their cherry-picking as though it were valid.

nobody is cherry picking anything. you're just mad the numbers don't show what you want them to show.

the figures come from the police department. each year they report on the causes of death in traffic accidents in washington dc. they haven't yet reported on 2023.

those numbers are the deaths blamed on speeding. there's no point including unrelated things like the guy who had a burst aneurysm and drove into a tree or the cyclist who slid on some rocks and hit her head on the pavement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there evidence that traffic cameras have made DC safer? Obviously, people slow down when there's cameras. But the flip side is that people drive worse when they know we've turned traffic enforcement over to the cameras and, if you're on a street with no cameras (which is most of them), you can do anything you want. How do we know those two things net out to something better than when we didn't have cameras and motorists had to worry about cops pulling them over?

Yes, there is evidence that traffic cameras make streets safer. There's no asterisk for *except in DC.

Here's the number of people in DC killed by speeding drivers in past dozen years. Kindly point out to us where traffic cameras started making a difference.

2022 -- 9
2021 -- 12
2020 -- 15
2019 -- 10
2018 -- 9
2017 -- 12
2016 -- 8
2015 -- 11
2014 -- 12
2013 -- 11
2012 -- 5
2011 -- 15
2010 -- 8

Note: the higher numbers cited in another post include ALL traffic deaths, which include people killed by drunk and stoned drivers, pedestrians stepping in front of buses, motorists having heart attacks, etc. Obviously traffic cameras can't possibly do anything about those.

Bueller?....Bueller?...Bueller?

There have been multiple responses to your post. You just don't like the responses.

Actually, no one has answered the question. Tell us: which year is it?

You wouldnt think this would be that hard of a question if traffic cameras actually reduce deaths.

You: Here are the last 6 times Mercury was in retrograde. How does this affect pizza delivery times? It should be an easy question to answer!

In other words, your question is based on inaccurate data and false premises. Multiple posters have explained this to you.

It's more like you didn't like that PP took the time to filter out the incidents in which speeding wasn't the determining factor.

Either way both sets of numbers have been pretty consistent in their pattern and there has not been a noticeable impact from the installation of cameras.

I don't like that PP took the time and went to extra effort to produce even more inaccurate data, yes, you're right. Speaking abstractly, of course. If PP wants to waste their own time and effort that way, that's up to them.

It's not less accurate to filter by cause. But you should have noticed that they didn't provide the 2023 numbers.

The two things that stand out from both sets of data is that there was an initial drop between 2009-2011 and a big spike from 2022-2023. That drop could possibly indicate the speed cameras have an initial impact. But the quick reversion to the mean afterward would indicate either that the impact is short lived.

The spike is more interesting because that is the time frame when the realization that the police were no longer enforcing traffic took hold. If anything the data shows that automated cameras are not not a replacement for enforcement by humans.

It absolutely is less accurate. As has been explained. PP is cherry-picking numbers and then complaining that people don't want to engage with their cherry-picking as though it were valid.

Except the gross numbers don't show a different pattern. There was a spike down in 2012 which may be attributed to cameras, I don't know when they first proliferated, but which quickly reverted to the mean. And there was a spike up in 2023 which correlates to the end of traffic enforcement. Every other year is relatively constant.

If cameras were the miracle solution claimed then should be able to see an impact. Maybe if the numbers were all tied to population or traffic volume growth we'd see something more but otherwise it seems pretty consistent. There's around 30 traffic deaths per year of which 10 are directly tied to speeding.

There's another false premise. Nobody has claimed that automated traffic enforcement is the miracle solution.

You've claimed they do something. The numbers don't show that.

Lots of studies say you're wrong.

We're talking about the actual DC specific data, both with and without controlling for cause. Any impact should show and yet it's more or less rangebound for the last 15 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there evidence that traffic cameras have made DC safer? Obviously, people slow down when there's cameras. But the flip side is that people drive worse when they know we've turned traffic enforcement over to the cameras and, if you're on a street with no cameras (which is most of them), you can do anything you want. How do we know those two things net out to something better than when we didn't have cameras and motorists had to worry about cops pulling them over?

Yes, there is evidence that traffic cameras make streets safer. There's no asterisk for *except in DC.

Here's the number of people in DC killed by speeding drivers in past dozen years. Kindly point out to us where traffic cameras started making a difference.

2022 -- 9
2021 -- 12
2020 -- 15
2019 -- 10
2018 -- 9
2017 -- 12
2016 -- 8
2015 -- 11
2014 -- 12
2013 -- 11
2012 -- 5
2011 -- 15
2010 -- 8

Note: the higher numbers cited in another post include ALL traffic deaths, which include people killed by drunk and stoned drivers, pedestrians stepping in front of buses, motorists having heart attacks, etc. Obviously traffic cameras can't possibly do anything about those.

Bueller?....Bueller?...Bueller?

There have been multiple responses to your post. You just don't like the responses.

Actually, no one has answered the question. Tell us: which year is it?

You wouldnt think this would be that hard of a question if traffic cameras actually reduce deaths.

You: Here are the last 6 times Mercury was in retrograde. How does this affect pizza delivery times? It should be an easy question to answer!

In other words, your question is based on inaccurate data and false premises. Multiple posters have explained this to you.

All we've gotten is a lot of evasive non-answers and poor analogies. Again:

Here's the number of people in DC killed by speeding drivers in past dozen years. Kindly point out to us where traffic cameras started making a difference.

2022 -- 9
2021 -- 12
2020 -- 15
2019 -- 10
2018 -- 9
2017 -- 12
2016 -- 8
2015 -- 11
2014 -- 12
2013 -- 11
2012 -- 5
2011 -- 15
2010 -- 8

Note: the higher numbers cited in another post include ALL traffic deaths, which include people killed by drunk and stoned drivers, pedestrians stepping in front of buses, motorists having heart attacks, etc. Obviously traffic cameras can't possibly do anything about those.

Absent medical events, deaths require force. Force requires speed. I’m sorry that this basic logic escapes you.

It’s not impossible for a car traveling 25mph to kill someone, but it’s unusual. Regardless of what factors MPD opts to designate as the primary cause (and they should probably not be doing this, as it’s scientifically vacuous), we can safely presume that speed was a factor in most fatal crashes.

We'll put you down as...(checks notes)...opposed to investigating unnatural deaths.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there evidence that traffic cameras have made DC safer? Obviously, people slow down when there's cameras. But the flip side is that people drive worse when they know we've turned traffic enforcement over to the cameras and, if you're on a street with no cameras (which is most of them), you can do anything you want. How do we know those two things net out to something better than when we didn't have cameras and motorists had to worry about cops pulling them over?

Yes, there is evidence that traffic cameras make streets safer. There's no asterisk for *except in DC.

Here's the number of people in DC killed by speeding drivers in past dozen years. Kindly point out to us where traffic cameras started making a difference.

2022 -- 9
2021 -- 12
2020 -- 15
2019 -- 10
2018 -- 9
2017 -- 12
2016 -- 8
2015 -- 11
2014 -- 12
2013 -- 11
2012 -- 5
2011 -- 15
2010 -- 8

Note: the higher numbers cited in another post include ALL traffic deaths, which include people killed by drunk and stoned drivers, pedestrians stepping in front of buses, motorists having heart attacks, etc. Obviously traffic cameras can't possibly do anything about those.

Bueller?....Bueller?...Bueller?

There have been multiple responses to your post. You just don't like the responses.

Actually, no one has answered the question. Tell us: which year is it?

You wouldnt think this would be that hard of a question if traffic cameras actually reduce deaths.

You: Here are the last 6 times Mercury was in retrograde. How does this affect pizza delivery times? It should be an easy question to answer!

In other words, your question is based on inaccurate data and false premises. Multiple posters have explained this to you.

All we've gotten is a lot of evasive non-answers and poor analogies. Again:

Here's the number of people in DC killed by speeding drivers in past dozen years. Kindly point out to us where traffic cameras started making a difference.

2022 -- 9
2021 -- 12
2020 -- 15
2019 -- 10
2018 -- 9
2017 -- 12
2016 -- 8
2015 -- 11
2014 -- 12
2013 -- 11
2012 -- 5
2011 -- 15
2010 -- 8

Note: the higher numbers cited in another post include ALL traffic deaths, which include people killed by drunk and stoned drivers, pedestrians stepping in front of buses, motorists having heart attacks, etc. Obviously traffic cameras can't possibly do anything about those.

Absent medical events, deaths require force. Force requires speed. I’m sorry that this basic logic escapes you.

It’s not impossible for a car traveling 25mph to kill someone, but it’s unusual. Regardless of what factors MPD opts to designate as the primary cause (and they should probably not be doing this, as it’s scientifically vacuous), we can safely presume that speed was a factor in most fatal crashes.

So I guess your argument is that we should have no cars (or bikes) at all? If any speed can cause a death, that seems to be the point you're making. Just come right out and say it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there evidence that traffic cameras have made DC safer? Obviously, people slow down when there's cameras. But the flip side is that people drive worse when they know we've turned traffic enforcement over to the cameras and, if you're on a street with no cameras (which is most of them), you can do anything you want. How do we know those two things net out to something better than when we didn't have cameras and motorists had to worry about cops pulling them over?

Yes, there is evidence that traffic cameras make streets safer. There's no asterisk for *except in DC.

Here's the number of people in DC killed by speeding drivers in past dozen years. Kindly point out to us where traffic cameras started making a difference.

2022 -- 9
2021 -- 12
2020 -- 15
2019 -- 10
2018 -- 9
2017 -- 12
2016 -- 8
2015 -- 11
2014 -- 12
2013 -- 11
2012 -- 5
2011 -- 15
2010 -- 8

Note: the higher numbers cited in another post include ALL traffic deaths, which include people killed by drunk and stoned drivers, pedestrians stepping in front of buses, motorists having heart attacks, etc. Obviously traffic cameras can't possibly do anything about those.

Bueller?....Bueller?...Bueller?

There have been multiple responses to your post. You just don't like the responses.

Actually, no one has answered the question. Tell us: which year is it?

You wouldnt think this would be that hard of a question if traffic cameras actually reduce deaths.

You: Here are the last 6 times Mercury was in retrograde. How does this affect pizza delivery times? It should be an easy question to answer!

In other words, your question is based on inaccurate data and false premises. Multiple posters have explained this to you.

All we've gotten is a lot of evasive non-answers and poor analogies. Again:

Here's the number of people in DC killed by speeding drivers in past dozen years. Kindly point out to us where traffic cameras started making a difference.

2022 -- 9
2021 -- 12
2020 -- 15
2019 -- 10
2018 -- 9
2017 -- 12
2016 -- 8
2015 -- 11
2014 -- 12
2013 -- 11
2012 -- 5
2011 -- 15
2010 -- 8

Note: the higher numbers cited in another post include ALL traffic deaths, which include people killed by drunk and stoned drivers, pedestrians stepping in front of buses, motorists having heart attacks, etc. Obviously traffic cameras can't possibly do anything about those.

Absent medical events, deaths require force. Force requires speed. I’m sorry that this basic logic escapes you.

It’s not impossible for a car traveling 25mph to kill someone, but it’s unusual. Regardless of what factors MPD opts to designate as the primary cause (and they should probably not be doing this, as it’s scientifically vacuous), we can safely presume that speed was a factor in most fatal crashes.

So I guess your argument is that we should have no cars (or bikes) at all? If any speed can cause a death, that seems to be the point you're making. Just come right out and say it.

Please go back to school and learn how to read.

[Anonymous]

I guess the dirty little secret is out in the open. The speed cameras have not decreased traffic deaths. They have raised a lot of money though. No wonder MD and VA won't provide reciprocity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess the dirty little secret is out in the open. The speed cameras have not decreased traffic deaths. They have raised a lot of money though. No wonder MD and VA won't provide reciprocity.

Glad we have them. I love having other people step up and voluntarily pay more tax. More speed camera please!

[Anonymous]

I think this is great. Post speed cameras like crazy where VA and MD drivers come into the city until those states pay their fair share for permanent, dedicated, and sufficient funding to WMATA.

[Anonymous]

My concern with the proliferation of traffic cameras in DC is the simultaneous decrease in real enforcement by police using tickets that carry points. As others have pointed out, relying solely on cameras means people can drive drunk/high, weave between lanes, blow through stop signs and red lights, graze pedestrians in crosswalks, drag race Dodge Challengers, drive the wrong way down one-way streets, etc. all day every day as long as there's no camera present. Even then, cameras don't check for half of that list.

So, it's not a question of "Do speed cameras work?" It's a question of "Does replacing traditional traffic enforcement with a system of automated camera-based enforcement work?" In my observation, the answer is no. Again, this doesn't mean cameras aren't effective and should be part of the equation. It's just that phasing out traditional enforcement had major unintended (I would assume) consequences.

Also, this whole notion that because black drivers get more tickets than other groups (i.e. whites), the system is therefore racist is completely meaningless unless there's evidence that black drivers break traffic laws at rates similar to other groups. Anecdotally, I don't think this is even close to true in DC, though it certainly may be elsewhere. Spend some time driving WOTP, and then spend some time driving EOTR (or in close-in PG for that matter) and make a note of driving styles with respect to traffic laws. Or even do it in one location in the city and see who the most egregious violators are on average.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think this is great. Post speed cameras like crazy where VA and MD drivers come into the city until those states pay their fair share for permanent, dedicated, and sufficient funding to WMATA.

Yes, but the problem is there's no way to get VA or MD drivers to pay those fines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think this is great. Post speed cameras like crazy where VA and MD drivers come into the city until those states pay their fair share for permanent, dedicated, and sufficient funding to WMATA.

There are already lots of cameras on major thoroughfares into (and out of) the city. But sure, put even more up -- I'd actually like to deter DC people from coming into MD because DC people seem to be the source of so much crime in MD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there evidence that traffic cameras have made DC safer? Obviously, people slow down when there's cameras. But the flip side is that people drive worse when they know we've turned traffic enforcement over to the cameras and, if you're on a street with no cameras (which is most of them), you can do anything you want. How do we know those two things net out to something better than when we didn't have cameras and motorists had to worry about cops pulling them over?

Yes, there is evidence that traffic cameras make streets safer. There's no asterisk for *except in DC.

Here's the number of people in DC killed by speeding drivers in past dozen years. Kindly point out to us where traffic cameras started making a difference.

2022 -- 9
2021 -- 12
2020 -- 15
2019 -- 10
2018 -- 9
2017 -- 12
2016 -- 8
2015 -- 11
2014 -- 12
2013 -- 11
2012 -- 5
2011 -- 15
2010 -- 8

Note: the higher numbers cited in another post include ALL traffic deaths, which include people killed by drunk and stoned drivers, pedestrians stepping in front of buses, motorists having heart attacks, etc. Obviously traffic cameras can't possibly do anything about those.

Bueller?....Bueller?...Bueller?

There have been multiple responses to your post. You just don't like the responses.

Actually, no one has answered the question. Tell us: which year is it?

You wouldnt think this would be that hard of a question if traffic cameras actually reduce deaths.

You: Here are the last 6 times Mercury was in retrograde. How does this affect pizza delivery times? It should be an easy question to answer!

In other words, your question is based on inaccurate data and false premises. Multiple posters have explained this to you.

It's more like you didn't like that PP took the time to filter out the incidents in which speeding wasn't the determining factor.

Either way both sets of numbers have been pretty consistent in their pattern and there has not been a noticeable impact from the installation of cameras.

I don't like that PP took the time and went to extra effort to produce even more inaccurate data, yes, you're right. Speaking abstractly, of course. If PP wants to waste their own time and effort that way, that's up to them.

It's not less accurate to filter by cause. But you should have noticed that they didn't provide the 2023 numbers.

The two things that stand out from both sets of data is that there was an initial drop between 2009-2011 and a big spike from 2022-2023. That drop could possibly indicate the speed cameras have an initial impact. But the quick reversion to the mean afterward would indicate either that the impact is short lived.

The spike is more interesting because that is the time frame when the realization that the police were no longer enforcing traffic took hold. If anything the data shows that automated cameras are not not a replacement for enforcement by humans.

It absolutely is less accurate. As has been explained. PP is cherry-picking numbers and then complaining that people don't want to engage with their cherry-picking as though it were valid.

Except the gross numbers don't show a different pattern. There was a spike down in 2012 which may be attributed to cameras, I don't know when they first proliferated, but which quickly reverted to the mean. And there was a spike up in 2023 which correlates to the end of traffic enforcement. Every other year is relatively constant.

If cameras were the miracle solution claimed then should be able to see an impact. Maybe if the numbers were all tied to population or traffic volume growth we'd see something more but otherwise it seems pretty consistent. There's around 30 traffic deaths per year of which 10 are directly tied to speeding.

There's another false premise. Nobody has claimed that automated traffic enforcement is the miracle solution.

You've claimed they do something. The numbers don't show that.

Lots of studies say you're wrong.

We're talking about the actual DC specific data, both with and without controlling for cause. Any impact should show and yet it's more or less rangebound for the last 15 years.

Its pretty clear that there is no noticeable impact on fatalities, and good work putting that together. Don't be discouraged, because this isn't the only issue the public is a brick wall on. There are dozens of interventions across numerous disciplines that are credited with all sorts of wonders that are invisible in actual data.

[Anonymous]

Doesn't stop people from speeding in stolen cars, right?

[Anonymous]

Ahahhahahahaha get fxkcdd