Donut hole reality

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nobody is entitled to an elite education. We do have many many affordable ways to get a college education. CC to 4 year state school, in-state 4 year from start, private schools (with good merit many times), OOS schools with merit, and very expensive private schools.
You go where you can afford. Your kid will get a great education most places. Pick one within your budget and move on.

Exactly - no one is entitled to an elite education except the wealthy and poor so the wealthy can feel good about themselves. Middle and upper middle class people, please stay in your lane. Your lane being in state schools, cc to instate schools, lesser/non elite schools that give tons of merit. Don’t even think about aspiring to more. Leave elite schools to the elite. Stay in your lane. When they talk about diversity and all that stuff, just realize it is lip service and they aren’t talking about you

This is SPOT ON.

Yes, it is.

AND IT DIDN'T USED TO BE THIS WAY.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Nobody is entitled to an elite education. We do have many many affordable ways to get a college education. CC to 4 year state school, in-state 4 year from start, private schools (with good merit many times), OOS schools with merit, and very expensive private schools.
You go where you can afford. Your kid will get a great education most places. Pick one within your budget and move on.

Exactly - no one is entitled to an elite education except the wealthy and poor so the wealthy can feel good about themselves. Middle and upper middle class people, please stay in your lane. Your lane being in state schools, cc to instate schools, lesser/non elite schools that give tons of merit. Don’t even think about aspiring to more. Leave elite schools to the elite. Stay in your lane. When they talk about diversity and all that stuff, just realize it is lip service and they aren’t talking about you

Majority of "poor" kids do not attend elite universities. Most do CC to 4 year or 4 year nearby so they can live at home, or they simply cannot afford college. Outside of the elite 25 colleges, FA is not provided in full, so they are forced to pick what they can afford.

Majority of people do not attend elite schools, they attend what they can get into and what they can afford.

Yes, the "rich" can afford whatever they want, just like they can buy that $3M mansion, 2nd vacation home, fly business to Europe/asia for vacations and drive luxury cars. Do you constantly complain that X is in a job that makes 5X what you do? Do you complain that you cannot afford a BMW or Tesla? Do you complain that you cannot afford to fly business/first class?
Fact is many middle/upper class people make choices every day---many do afford $80K universities and forgo other things. Life is all about choices, unless you are Bezos or Gates level of rich. Life is too short to constantly being upset that others have more than you. Your efforts would be better spent finding ways to improve your life so you can be happy. And if your kid attending a T20 schools is what would make you happiest (vs any T100) then that is a bit shallow and you should really focus on finding the right fit for your kids

I don't believe the elite/T25 schools are all that most people make them out to be. I fully believe its "what you do at college that matters, not where you go". One kid went to a T100, one went to a T30 (and was denied at two T25s).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who claim donut hole and are angry that they only have 130k in an account —are you also stomping your feet that you can’t afford the 2M mansions in the other town? Do you ping away at what you cannot have? Or are you happy that you have a good home in a solid town. Because you are indeed able to afford a good education via state universities. I swear college admissions is the only area where this nonsense comes into play. For everything else in life you buy what you can afford in your budget and move one. Why do you think you are entitled to a high priced private college. You have 100s even 1000s of colleges available to you via public universities.

It’s because so many selective colleges have policies where incomes under $150k students can attend free. Or under $200k, students qualify for need-based aid, and so on.

“Donut hole” (terrible name) is this window of income that puts you above need-based aid, but not enough to save as much as you’d had hoped.

The people who use the term tend to be jerks so it’s understandable why they’re disliked so much, but so many regular people fall into this category. They are stretched with housing, retirement, elder care, college savings, inflation and on and on. And yes, our kids end up going to public colleges or community schools, and doing ok. But, as a policy matter, it does sting that someone earning just a bit less than you qualifies for aid. I know there’ll be someone who says “well then earn less!” 🙄 there’s always a rebuttal to everything, but that’s the honest answer.

It’s about lifestyle choices. Two families on the same income and one chooses a million dollar house and one chooses a $400k house. The million dollar house family with more kids should not get rewarded for their poor decisions.

We picked the 400k house. We still couldn't pay 85k/year times 2 for college. Or I guess we "could", but it would be a financially stupid decision!

Same here but I guess it makes people like the PP feel better to make these assumptions. We are not going on fancy vacations and we settled for a 2300sq ft house. Still couldn’t pay full price at privates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Must be nice to have $2400/month to put into accounts for college.

Not everyone has that kind of income

But if you paid for daycare, you likely could continue to funnel it all (or 75%+) into 529s. If you wanted. It's a choice

When we paid for daycare, we were in the red most months.

You are out of touch.

Well I wouldn't have had kids until I could afford them (ie not be in the red most months). We paid off student loans and saved to have an emergency fund. We bought a home before kids well under what "we could afford" so that we wouldn't be stretched to the brink and beyond.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Must be nice to have $2400/month to put into accounts for college.

Not everyone has that kind of income

But if you paid for daycare, you likely could continue to funnel it all (or 75%+) into 529s. If you wanted. It's a choice

When we paid for daycare, we were in the red most months.

You are out of touch.

Well I wouldn't have had kids until I could afford them (ie not be in the red most months). We paid off student loans and saved to have an emergency fund. We bought a home before kids well under what "we could afford" so that we wouldn't be stretched to the brink and beyond.

Congratulations on acing all of life's choices. We bow to thee, and look forward to reading your memoir.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nobody is entitled to an elite education. We do have many many affordable ways to get a college education. CC to 4 year state school, in-state 4 year from start, private schools (with good merit many times), OOS schools with merit, and very expensive private schools.
You go where you can afford. Your kid will get a great education most places. Pick one within your budget and move on.

Exactly - no one is entitled to an elite education except the wealthy and poor so the wealthy can feel good about themselves. Middle and upper middle class people, please stay in your lane. Your lane being in state schools, cc to instate schools, lesser/non elite schools that give tons of merit. Don’t even think about aspiring to more. Leave elite schools to the elite. Stay in your lane. When they talk about diversity and all that stuff, just realize it is lip service and they aren’t talking about you

Majority of "poor" kids do not attend elite universities. Most do CC to 4 year or 4 year nearby so they can live at home, or they simply cannot afford college. Outside of the elite 25 colleges, FA is not provided in full, so they are forced to pick what they can afford.

Majority of people do not attend elite schools, they attend what they can get into and what they can afford.

Yes, the "rich" can afford whatever they want, just like they can buy that $3M mansion, 2nd vacation home, fly business to Europe/asia for vacations and drive luxury cars. Do you constantly complain that X is in a job that makes 5X what you do? Do you complain that you cannot afford a BMW or Tesla? Do you complain that you cannot afford to fly business/first class?
Fact is many middle/upper class people make choices every day---many do afford $80K universities and forgo other things. Life is all about choices, unless you are Bezos or Gates level of rich. Life is too short to constantly being upset that others have more than you. Your efforts would be better spent finding ways to improve your life so you can be happy. And if your kid attending a T20 schools is what would make you happiest (vs any T100) then that is a bit shallow and you should really focus on finding the right fit for your kids

I don't believe the elite/T25 schools are all that most people make them out to be. I fully believe its "what you do at college that matters, not where you go". One kid went to a T100, one went to a T30 (and was denied at two T25s).

I'm sick of people claiming if you just drive a used car and forgo starbucks you should have enough for an elite college tuition. Bulls---. And why should people have to do so? College tuition and admissions are OUT.OF.CONTROL.

[Anonymous]

But then why are so many kids applying to SLACs if they can’t afford them or don’t want to pay their price (like OP)?
How are they getting record numbers of applications?
Are applicants getting enough aid in the end?

I’ve accepted it will be close to $400,000 all in for my high school Junior but it’s painful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who claim donut hole and are angry that they only have 130k in an account —are you also stomping your feet that you can’t afford the 2M mansions in the other town? Do you ping away at what you cannot have? Or are you happy that you have a good home in a solid town. Because you are indeed able to afford a good education via state universities. I swear college admissions is the only area where this nonsense comes into play. For everything else in life you buy what you can afford in your budget and move one. Why do you think you are entitled to a high priced private college. You have 100s even 1000s of colleges available to you via public universities.

It’s because so many selective colleges have policies where incomes under $150k students can attend free. Or under $200k, students qualify for need-based aid, and so on.

“Donut hole” (terrible name) is this window of income that puts you above need-based aid, but not enough to save as much as you’d had hoped.

The people who use the term tend to be jerks so it’s understandable why they’re disliked so much, but so many regular people fall into this category. They are stretched with housing, retirement, elder care, college savings, inflation and on and on. And yes, our kids end up going to public colleges or community schools, and doing ok. But, as a policy matter, it does sting that someone earning just a bit less than you qualifies for aid. I know there’ll be someone who says “well then earn less!” 🙄 there’s always a rebuttal to everything, but that’s the honest answer.

It’s about lifestyle choices. Two families on the same income and one chooses a million dollar house and one chooses a $400k house. The million dollar house family with more kids should not get rewarded for their poor decisions.

WTF are you finding a $400k house anywhere remotely near DC that has decent public schools? Sorry- it ain't happening. That shipped sailed decades ago. My mom sold her modest SFH in Woodbridge/Springfield for $790k this summer. It was over 50 years old. My other sibling lives a 1 hour drive outside of DC (traffic kills her on WOH days) and it was $500k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nobody is entitled to an elite education. We do have many many affordable ways to get a college education. CC to 4 year state school, in-state 4 year from start, private schools (with good merit many times), OOS schools with merit, and very expensive private schools.
You go where you can afford. Your kid will get a great education most places. Pick one within your budget and move on.

Exactly - no one is entitled to an elite education except the wealthy and poor so the wealthy can feel good about themselves. Middle and upper middle class people, please stay in your lane. Your lane being in state schools, cc to instate schools, lesser/non elite schools that give tons of merit. Don’t even think about aspiring to more. Leave elite schools to the elite. Stay in your lane. When they talk about diversity and all that stuff, just realize it is lip service and they aren’t talking about you

This is SPOT ON.

Yes, it is.

AND IT DIDN'T USED TO BE THIS WAY.

You are correct - it used to be that only rich people could afford Ivies. There were limited scholarships, but not the type and breadth of assistance they have now. How was a poor kid from Mississippi supposed to even be able to afford to travel back and forth to Boston, even if tuition was covered?

These days, elite schools have generous assistance for truly poor/LMC kids, and so now the parents of the UMC kids are whining. If your kid gets into Harvard, they pay nothing if your income is less than $85k, if your income is between $85k and $150k, you'll pay less than 10% of your annual income, and they offer financial assistance to some people above $150k. If you make more than $200k a year, and you want your kid to go to a "top" college, save money for that (and by the way, you are *not* "middle class"). If you saved $500 a month since the kid was born, you'd have $265k in their college fund. If your kid has Ivy-level stats, they'll be granted all kinds of merit aid to go to the majority of the top 100 academic institutions in this country. Yes, there are a small number of "elite" colleges that don't have generous financial aid for people making $150k and don't give merit aid. If your kid can't go to Vanderbilt for free, your kid can go to go to a virtually indistinguishable college in another town that does offer merit aid. Life isn't fair. I, for one, am happy that "elite" colleges try to make life a little fairer by providing aid to kids that are truly disadvantaged. That group, however, does not include UMC kids whose parents chose not to save money for their college education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who claim donut hole and are angry that they only have 130k in an account —are you also stomping your feet that you can’t afford the 2M mansions in the other town? Do you ping away at what you cannot have? Or are you happy that you have a good home in a solid town. Because you are indeed able to afford a good education via state universities. I swear college admissions is the only area where this nonsense comes into play. For everything else in life you buy what you can afford in your budget and move one. Why do you think you are entitled to a high priced private college. You have 100s even 1000s of colleges available to you via public universities.

It’s because so many selective colleges have policies where incomes under $150k students can attend free. Or under $200k, students qualify for need-based aid, and so on.

“Donut hole” (terrible name) is this window of income that puts you above need-based aid, but not enough to save as much as you’d had hoped.

The people who use the term tend to be jerks so it’s understandable why they’re disliked so much, but so many regular people fall into this category. They are stretched with housing, retirement, elder care, college savings, inflation and on and on. And yes, our kids end up going to public colleges or community schools, and doing ok. But, as a policy matter, it does sting that someone earning just a bit less than you qualifies for aid. I know there’ll be someone who says “well then earn less!” 🙄 there’s always a rebuttal to everything, but that’s the honest answer.

It’s about lifestyle choices. Two families on the same income and one chooses a million dollar house and one chooses a $400k house. The million dollar house family with more kids should not get rewarded for their poor decisions.

WTF are you finding a $400k house anywhere remotely near DC that has decent public schools? Sorry- it ain't happening. That shipped sailed decades ago. My mom sold her modest SFH in Woodbridge/Springfield for $790k this summer. It was over 50 years old. My other sibling lives a 1 hour drive outside of DC (traffic kills her on WOH days) and it was $500k.

Why are you talking about home prices now? Your kid started school over 12 years ago -- presumably you made that choice some time ago?

I also suspect your definition of "decent public schools" is rather limited.

That's fine. It was your choice. But you just need to own it as a choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Must be nice to have $2400/month to put into accounts for college.

Not everyone has that kind of income

But if you paid for daycare, you likely could continue to funnel it all (or 75%+) into 529s. If you wanted. It's a choice

When we paid for daycare, we were in the red most months.

You are out of touch.

Well I wouldn't have had kids until I could afford them (ie not be in the red most months). We paid off student loans and saved to have an emergency fund. We bought a home before kids well under what "we could afford" so that we wouldn't be stretched to the brink and beyond.

Congratulations on acing all of life's choices. We bow to thee, and look forward to reading your memoir.

Having a kid is a MAJOR expense for the next 18+ years. Not that difficult to plan for it and make responsible fiscal choices to make it happen. But choosing to have one when you cannot afford daycare costs is not very smart. This isn't a "oops, shouldn't have gone out for dinner and drinks last Sat night". This is something responsible people plan for. Because the problem isn't going to magically resolve itself once you have that costly kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nobody is entitled to an elite education. We do have many many affordable ways to get a college education. CC to 4 year state school, in-state 4 year from start, private schools (with good merit many times), OOS schools with merit, and very expensive private schools.
You go where you can afford. Your kid will get a great education most places. Pick one within your budget and move on.

Exactly - no one is entitled to an elite education except the wealthy and poor so the wealthy can feel good about themselves. Middle and upper middle class people, please stay in your lane. Your lane being in state schools, cc to instate schools, lesser/non elite schools that give tons of merit. Don’t even think about aspiring to more. Leave elite schools to the elite. Stay in your lane. When they talk about diversity and all that stuff, just realize it is lip service and they aren’t talking about you

This is SPOT ON.

Yes, it is.

AND IT DIDN'T USED TO BE THIS WAY.

You are correct - it used to be that only rich people could afford Ivies. There were limited scholarships, but not the type and breadth of assistance they have now. How was a poor kid from Mississippi supposed to even be able to afford to travel back and forth to Boston, even if tuition was covered?

These days, elite schools have generous assistance for truly poor/LMC kids, and so now the parents of the UMC kids are whining. If your kid gets into Harvard, they pay nothing if your income is less than $85k, if your income is between $85k and $150k, you'll pay less than 10% of your annual income, and they offer financial assistance to some people above $150k. If you make more than $200k a year, and you want your kid to go to a "top" college, save money for that (and by the way, you are *not* "middle class"). If you saved $500 a month since the kid was born, you'd have $265k in their college fund. If your kid has Ivy-level stats, they'll be granted all kinds of merit aid to go to the majority of the top 100 academic institutions in this country. Yes, there are a small number of "elite" colleges that don't have generous financial aid for people making $150k and don't give merit aid. If your kid can't go to Vanderbilt for free, your kid can go to go to a virtually indistinguishable college in another town that does offer merit aid. Life isn't fair. I, for one, am happy that "elite" colleges try to make life a little fairer by providing aid to kids that are truly disadvantaged. That group, however, does not include UMC kids whose parents chose not to save money for their college education.

How nice for you that you are so intimately familiar with what financial decisions every UMC family is able to make? How smug and despicable of you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nobody is entitled to an elite education. We do have many many affordable ways to get a college education. CC to 4 year state school, in-state 4 year from start, private schools (with good merit many times), OOS schools with merit, and very expensive private schools.
You go where you can afford. Your kid will get a great education most places. Pick one within your budget and move on.

Exactly - no one is entitled to an elite education except the wealthy and poor so the wealthy can feel good about themselves. Middle and upper middle class people, please stay in your lane. Your lane being in state schools, cc to instate schools, lesser/non elite schools that give tons of merit. Don’t even think about aspiring to more. Leave elite schools to the elite. Stay in your lane. When they talk about diversity and all that stuff, just realize it is lip service and they aren’t talking about you

Majority of "poor" kids do not attend elite universities. Most do CC to 4 year or 4 year nearby so they can live at home, or they simply cannot afford college. Outside of the elite 25 colleges, FA is not provided in full, so they are forced to pick what they can afford.

Majority of people do not attend elite schools, they attend what they can get into and what they can afford.

Yes, the "rich" can afford whatever they want, just like they can buy that $3M mansion, 2nd vacation home, fly business to Europe/asia for vacations and drive luxury cars. Do you constantly complain that X is in a job that makes 5X what you do? Do you complain that you cannot afford a BMW or Tesla? Do you complain that you cannot afford to fly business/first class?
Fact is many middle/upper class people make choices every day---many do afford $80K universities and forgo other things. Life is all about choices, unless you are Bezos or Gates level of rich. Life is too short to constantly being upset that others have more than you. Your efforts would be better spent finding ways to improve your life so you can be happy. And if your kid attending a T20 schools is what would make you happiest (vs any T100) then that is a bit shallow and you should really focus on finding the right fit for your kids

I don't believe the elite/T25 schools are all that most people make them out to be. I fully believe its "what you do at college that matters, not where you go". One kid went to a T100, one went to a T30 (and was denied at two T25s).

I'm sick of people claiming if you just drive a used car and forgo starbucks you should have enough for an elite college tuition. Bulls---. And why should people have to do so? College tuition and admissions are OUT.OF.CONTROL.

"Why should people have to?" Because if you want something in life, you need to plan for it and figure out a way to afford it. It isn't just given to you "because you want it".

I don't expect others to pay my mortgage, my daycare, my vacations, etc. Instead I buy a home I can afford, I don't take a vacation I cannot afford to pay cash for (no financing a vacation), I don't buy a car I cannot afford to pay for it, etc. Personal Responsibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nobody is entitled to an elite education. We do have many many affordable ways to get a college education. CC to 4 year state school, in-state 4 year from start, private schools (with good merit many times), OOS schools with merit, and very expensive private schools.
You go where you can afford. Your kid will get a great education most places. Pick one within your budget and move on.

Exactly - no one is entitled to an elite education except the wealthy and poor so the wealthy can feel good about themselves. Middle and upper middle class people, please stay in your lane. Your lane being in state schools, cc to instate schools, lesser/non elite schools that give tons of merit. Don’t even think about aspiring to more. Leave elite schools to the elite. Stay in your lane. When they talk about diversity and all that stuff, just realize it is lip service and they aren’t talking about you

Majority of "poor" kids do not attend elite universities. Most do CC to 4 year or 4 year nearby so they can live at home, or they simply cannot afford college. Outside of the elite 25 colleges, FA is not provided in full, so they are forced to pick what they can afford.

Majority of people do not attend elite schools, they attend what they can get into and what they can afford.

Yes, the "rich" can afford whatever they want, just like they can buy that $3M mansion, 2nd vacation home, fly business to Europe/asia for vacations and drive luxury cars. Do you constantly complain that X is in a job that makes 5X what you do? Do you complain that you cannot afford a BMW or Tesla? Do you complain that you cannot afford to fly business/first class?
Fact is many middle/upper class people make choices every day---many do afford $80K universities and forgo other things. Life is all about choices, unless you are Bezos or Gates level of rich. Life is too short to constantly being upset that others have more than you. Your efforts would be better spent finding ways to improve your life so you can be happy. And if your kid attending a T20 schools is what would make you happiest (vs any T100) then that is a bit shallow and you should really focus on finding the right fit for your kids

I don't believe the elite/T25 schools are all that most people make them out to be. I fully believe its "what you do at college that matters, not where you go". One kid went to a T100, one went to a T30 (and was denied at two T25s).

I'm sick of people claiming if you just drive a used car and forgo starbucks you should have enough for an elite college tuition. Bulls---. And why should people have to do so? College tuition and admissions are OUT.OF.CONTROL.

"Why should people have to?" Because if you want something in life, you need to plan for it and figure out a way to afford it. It isn't just given to you "because you want it".

I don't expect others to pay my mortgage, my daycare, my vacations, etc. Instead I buy a home I can afford, I don't take a vacation I cannot afford to pay cash for (no financing a vacation), I don't buy a car I cannot afford to pay for it, etc. Personal Responsibility.

Please let me know where to send your trophy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nobody is entitled to an elite education. We do have many many affordable ways to get a college education. CC to 4 year state school, in-state 4 year from start, private schools (with good merit many times), OOS schools with merit, and very expensive private schools.
You go where you can afford. Your kid will get a great education most places. Pick one within your budget and move on.

Exactly - no one is entitled to an elite education except the wealthy and poor so the wealthy can feel good about themselves. Middle and upper middle class people, please stay in your lane. Your lane being in state schools, cc to instate schools, lesser/non elite schools that give tons of merit. Don’t even think about aspiring to more. Leave elite schools to the elite. Stay in your lane. When they talk about diversity and all that stuff, just realize it is lip service and they aren’t talking about you

Majority of "poor" kids do not attend elite universities. Most do CC to 4 year or 4 year nearby so they can live at home, or they simply cannot afford college. Outside of the elite 25 colleges, FA is not provided in full, so they are forced to pick what they can afford.

Majority of people do not attend elite schools, they attend what they can get into and what they can afford.

Yes, the "rich" can afford whatever they want, just like they can buy that $3M mansion, 2nd vacation home, fly business to Europe/asia for vacations and drive luxury cars. Do you constantly complain that X is in a job that makes 5X what you do? Do you complain that you cannot afford a BMW or Tesla? Do you complain that you cannot afford to fly business/first class?
Fact is many middle/upper class people make choices every day---many do afford $80K universities and forgo other things. Life is all about choices, unless you are Bezos or Gates level of rich. Life is too short to constantly being upset that others have more than you. Your efforts would be better spent finding ways to improve your life so you can be happy. And if your kid attending a T20 schools is what would make you happiest (vs any T100) then that is a bit shallow and you should really focus on finding the right fit for your kids

I don't believe the elite/T25 schools are all that most people make them out to be. I fully believe its "what you do at college that matters, not where you go". One kid went to a T100, one went to a T30 (and was denied at two T25s).

I'm sick of people claiming if you just drive a used car and forgo starbucks you should have enough for an elite college tuition. Bulls---. And why should people have to do so? College tuition and admissions are OUT.OF.CONTROL.

I'm sick of people who didn't plan and save appropriately. We had $290K in my DC's account by the time they enrolled in college. Over half of it was from Investment Earnings. Meaning, we only saved 130K, which is like 500 bucks a month for 18 years. Yes, we opened the 529 at birth. We planned. Poor planning on your part doesn't constitute a crisis for everyone else.