So it’s 22% tips now

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you know why I tip so well? Because every time I see a minimally paid service worker in this area I wonder where they live, how far they had to commute, and how they can afford nutritious food for themselves, much less a family if that is their situation. I have so much .... makes me feel good. The landlords soaking people for every dime make me sick, not the restaurants pushing for tips for their employees.

Maybe you should think about how in Europe, where there is no tipping culture, these same people would have a short commute, better home, better schools for their children, and free health care. Our culture keeps people in their place. We have a society with very little social mobility. These people don’t need your pity; they need better opportunities to begin with starting from when they are children.

We have a society with relatively high social mobility compared to most other developed countries, but we have a lot of inequality. We also have a social safety net that phases out too quickly--so benefits disproportionately go to the very poor, but are quickly lost for the working poor/lower middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look, I get that these automatic tipper buttons on bills are ubiquitous and annoying AF. I hate them as much as the next guy. But putting them aside, what I’m seeing here are a lot of posters who don’t want to tip generously as a matter of principle. They suck just as much as a tip prompt.

I think you are vastly over-simplifying. I think you are seeing several things:

1) People pushing back against the idea that the "standard" tip is now over 20%. As a couple posters have pointed out, there is no reason for the tip percentage to go up with prices are already rising -- tipping 20% on higher priced items will naturally result in a higher tip. So people are pushing back on the idea that continuing to tip 20% is suddenly no longer generous, when inflation means that it's already a higher tip than people used to leave.

2) Restaurants charging various service fees without making it clear whether that money goes to staff, and people feeling pressured to leave tips on top of service charges, which can add up to 40% to the cost of your meal. There is a feeling of being swindled in this -- where is the extra money going? Who is it for? Why not just raise prices? The lack of transparency and the feeling that you are suddenly being asked to pay much more than advertised at the end of your meal leaves a lot of customers with a bad taste in their mouth, which can make them feel "ungenerous."

3) People frustrated with an overall decline in quality of service. A lot of this is due to things beyond the servers' control -- lack of adequate staffing, for instance, can diminish service even if the servers are working hard. But there's no question that service isn't as good as it was pre-Covid, and to then also be expected to tip more for worse service feels wrong.

4) Related, but the shift towards more automated ordering makes people question what exactly they are paying for when they tip. If I use a QR code to get the menu and order my food, shouldn't I be tipping less than back when I used to have someone bring my menu, take my order, and offer a human touch to the process? It's strange to not only expect the same tip for less interaction, but to expect a higher tip than before.

I also think a lot of people are just tired of the idea that it's up to individual customers to make sure a restaurants employees are adequately compensated. A lot of people are saying they would be fine with higher prices that would enable restaurants to pay their employees more, if it meant getting rid of tips. So the restaurant pays its workers, and then customers just show up and pay the restaurant. Just like at most other businesses. It's a fair argument and has nothing to do with being ungenerous -- it has to do with not wanting to be directly in charge of compensation for someone. Going to a restaurant should feel like hiring an independent contractor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you know why I tip so well? Because every time I see a minimally paid service worker in this area I wonder where they live, how far they had to commute, and how they can afford nutritious food for themselves, much less a family if that is their situation. I have so much .... makes me feel good. The landlords soaking people for every dime make me sick, not the restaurants pushing for tips for their employees.

Maybe you should think about how in Europe, where there is no tipping culture, these same people would have a short commute, better home, better schools for their children, and free health care. Our culture keeps people in their place. We have a society with very little social mobility. These people don’t need your pity; they need better opportunities to begin with starting from when they are children.

We have a society with relatively high social mobility compared to most other developed countries, but we have a lot of inequality. We also have a social safety net that phases out too quickly--so benefits disproportionately go to the very poor, but are quickly lost for the working poor/lower middle class.

We think we have high mobility, but we're wrong

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/02_economic_mobility_sawhill_ch3.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, I get that these automatic tipper buttons on bills are ubiquitous and annoying AF. I hate them as much as the next guy. But putting them aside, what I’m seeing here are a lot of posters who don’t want to tip generously as a matter of principle. They suck just as much as a tip prompt.

I think you are vastly over-simplifying. I think you are seeing several things:

1) People pushing back against the idea that the "standard" tip is now over 20%. As a couple posters have pointed out, there is no reason for the tip percentage to go up with prices are already rising -- tipping 20% on higher priced items will naturally result in a higher tip. So people are pushing back on the idea that continuing to tip 20% is suddenly no longer generous, when inflation means that it's already a higher tip than people used to leave.

2) Restaurants charging various service fees without making it clear whether that money goes to staff, and people feeling pressured to leave tips on top of service charges, which can add up to 40% to the cost of your meal. There is a feeling of being swindled in this -- where is the extra money going? Who is it for? Why not just raise prices? The lack of transparency and the feeling that you are suddenly being asked to pay much more than advertised at the end of your meal leaves a lot of customers with a bad taste in their mouth, which can make them feel "ungenerous."

3) People frustrated with an overall decline in quality of service. A lot of this is due to things beyond the servers' control -- lack of adequate staffing, for instance, can diminish service even if the servers are working hard. But there's no question that service isn't as good as it was pre-Covid, and to then also be expected to tip more for worse service feels wrong.

4) Related, but the shift towards more automated ordering makes people question what exactly they are paying for when they tip. If I use a QR code to get the menu and order my food, shouldn't I be tipping less than back when I used to have someone bring my menu, take my order, and offer a human touch to the process? It's strange to not only expect the same tip for less interaction, but to expect a higher tip than before.

I also think a lot of people are just tired of the idea that it's up to individual customers to make sure a restaurants employees are adequately compensated. A lot of people are saying they would be fine with higher prices that would enable restaurants to pay their employees more, if it meant getting rid of tips. So the restaurant pays its workers, and then customers just show up and pay the restaurant. Just like at most other businesses. It's a fair argument and has nothing to do with being ungenerous -- it has to do with not wanting to be directly in charge of compensation for someone. Going to a restaurant should feel like hiring an independent contractor.

Very nice analysis/summary. Should be pinned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, I get that these automatic tipper buttons on bills are ubiquitous and annoying AF. I hate them as much as the next guy. But putting them aside, what I’m seeing here are a lot of posters who don’t want to tip generously as a matter of principle. They suck just as much as a tip prompt.

I think you are vastly over-simplifying. I think you are seeing several things:

1) People pushing back against the idea that the "standard" tip is now over 20%. As a couple posters have pointed out, there is no reason for the tip percentage to go up with prices are already rising -- tipping 20% on higher priced items will naturally result in a higher tip. So people are pushing back on the idea that continuing to tip 20% is suddenly no longer generous, when inflation means that it's already a higher tip than people used to leave.

2) Restaurants charging various service fees without making it clear whether that money goes to staff, and people feeling pressured to leave tips on top of service charges, which can add up to 40% to the cost of your meal. There is a feeling of being swindled in this -- where is the extra money going? Who is it for? Why not just raise prices? The lack of transparency and the feeling that you are suddenly being asked to pay much more than advertised at the end of your meal leaves a lot of customers with a bad taste in their mouth, which can make them feel "ungenerous."

3) People frustrated with an overall decline in quality of service. A lot of this is due to things beyond the servers' control -- lack of adequate staffing, for instance, can diminish service even if the servers are working hard. But there's no question that service isn't as good as it was pre-Covid, and to then also be expected to tip more for worse service feels wrong.

4) Related, but the shift towards more automated ordering makes people question what exactly they are paying for when they tip. If I use a QR code to get the menu and order my food, shouldn't I be tipping less than back when I used to have someone bring my menu, take my order, and offer a human touch to the process? It's strange to not only expect the same tip for less interaction, but to expect a higher tip than before.

I also think a lot of people are just tired of the idea that it's up to individual customers to make sure a restaurants employees are adequately compensated. A lot of people are saying they would be fine with higher prices that would enable restaurants to pay their employees more, if it meant getting rid of tips. So the restaurant pays its workers, and then customers just show up and pay the restaurant. Just like at most other businesses. It's a fair argument and has nothing to do with being ungenerous -- it has to do with not wanting to be directly in charge of compensation for someone. Going to a restaurant should feel like hiring an independent contractor.

Also, some of these threads are a good reminder to just to a personal sanity check. A lot of people on DCUM are pretty clearly living beyond their means and not being truthful about things like HHI and wealth. It causes them to worry a lot more about money, even around smaller things like tips.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, I get that these automatic tipper buttons on bills are ubiquitous and annoying AF. I hate them as much as the next guy. But putting them aside, what I’m seeing here are a lot of posters who don’t want to tip generously as a matter of principle. They suck just as much as a tip prompt.

I think you are vastly over-simplifying. I think you are seeing several things:

1) People pushing back against the idea that the "standard" tip is now over 20%. As a couple posters have pointed out, there is no reason for the tip percentage to go up with prices are already rising -- tipping 20% on higher priced items will naturally result in a higher tip. So people are pushing back on the idea that continuing to tip 20% is suddenly no longer generous, when inflation means that it's already a higher tip than people used to leave.

2) Restaurants charging various service fees without making it clear whether that money goes to staff, and people feeling pressured to leave tips on top of service charges, which can add up to 40% to the cost of your meal. There is a feeling of being swindled in this -- where is the extra money going? Who is it for? Why not just raise prices? The lack of transparency and the feeling that you are suddenly being asked to pay much more than advertised at the end of your meal leaves a lot of customers with a bad taste in their mouth, which can make them feel "ungenerous."

3) People frustrated with an overall decline in quality of service. A lot of this is due to things beyond the servers' control -- lack of adequate staffing, for instance, can diminish service even if the servers are working hard. But there's no question that service isn't as good as it was pre-Covid, and to then also be expected to tip more for worse service feels wrong.

4) Related, but the shift towards more automated ordering makes people question what exactly they are paying for when they tip. If I use a QR code to get the menu and order my food, shouldn't I be tipping less than back when I used to have someone bring my menu, take my order, and offer a human touch to the process? It's strange to not only expect the same tip for less interaction, but to expect a higher tip than before.

I also think a lot of people are just tired of the idea that it's up to individual customers to make sure a restaurants employees are adequately compensated. A lot of people are saying they would be fine with higher prices that would enable restaurants to pay their employees more, if it meant getting rid of tips. So the restaurant pays its workers, and then customers just show up and pay the restaurant. Just like at most other businesses. It's a fair argument and has nothing to do with being ungenerous -- it has to do with not wanting to be directly in charge of compensation for someone. Going to a restaurant should feel like hiring an independent contractor.

Also, some of these threads are a good reminder to just do a personal sanity check. A lot of people on DCUM are pretty clearly living beyond their means and not being truthful about things like HHI and wealth. It causes them to worry a lot more about money, even around smaller things like tips.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, I get that these automatic tipper buttons on bills are ubiquitous and annoying AF. I hate them as much as the next guy. But putting them aside, what I’m seeing here are a lot of posters who don’t want to tip generously as a matter of principle. They suck just as much as a tip prompt.

I think you are vastly over-simplifying. I think you are seeing several things:

1) People pushing back against the idea that the "standard" tip is now over 20%. As a couple posters have pointed out, there is no reason for the tip percentage to go up with prices are already rising -- tipping 20% on higher priced items will naturally result in a higher tip. So people are pushing back on the idea that continuing to tip 20% is suddenly no longer generous, when inflation means that it's already a higher tip than people used to leave.

2) Restaurants charging various service fees without making it clear whether that money goes to staff, and people feeling pressured to leave tips on top of service charges, which can add up to 40% to the cost of your meal. There is a feeling of being swindled in this -- where is the extra money going? Who is it for? Why not just raise prices? The lack of transparency and the feeling that you are suddenly being asked to pay much more than advertised at the end of your meal leaves a lot of customers with a bad taste in their mouth, which can make them feel "ungenerous."

3) People frustrated with an overall decline in quality of service. A lot of this is due to things beyond the servers' control -- lack of adequate staffing, for instance, can diminish service even if the servers are working hard. But there's no question that service isn't as good as it was pre-Covid, and to then also be expected to tip more for worse service feels wrong.

4) Related, but the shift towards more automated ordering makes people question what exactly they are paying for when they tip. If I use a QR code to get the menu and order my food, shouldn't I be tipping less than back when I used to have someone bring my menu, take my order, and offer a human touch to the process? It's strange to not only expect the same tip for less interaction, but to expect a higher tip than before.

I also think a lot of people are just tired of the idea that it's up to individual customers to make sure a restaurants employees are adequately compensated. A lot of people are saying they would be fine with higher prices that would enable restaurants to pay their employees more, if it meant getting rid of tips. So the restaurant pays its workers, and then customers just show up and pay the restaurant. Just like at most other businesses. It's a fair argument and has nothing to do with being ungenerous -- it has to do with not wanting to be directly in charge of compensation for someone. Going to a restaurant should feel like hiring an independent contractor.

Very nice analysis/summary. Should be pinned.

I hope an anonymous board isn't the only place your voice your concerns. Too many people just pontificate and complain on DCUM. To be frank, it does nothing here but I've been able to have a short chat with a manager at a place that had fees I wasn't sure about and they actually changed what the waiters tell you so you now know exactly that the added amount is a built-in tip.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, I get that these automatic tipper buttons on bills are ubiquitous and annoying AF. I hate them as much as the next guy. But putting them aside, what I’m seeing here are a lot of posters who don’t want to tip generously as a matter of principle. They suck just as much as a tip prompt.

I think you are vastly over-simplifying. I think you are seeing several things:

1) People pushing back against the idea that the "standard" tip is now over 20%. As a couple posters have pointed out, there is no reason for the tip percentage to go up with prices are already rising -- tipping 20% on higher priced items will naturally result in a higher tip. So people are pushing back on the idea that continuing to tip 20% is suddenly no longer generous, when inflation means that it's already a higher tip than people used to leave.

2) Restaurants charging various service fees without making it clear whether that money goes to staff, and people feeling pressured to leave tips on top of service charges, which can add up to 40% to the cost of your meal. There is a feeling of being swindled in this -- where is the extra money going? Who is it for? Why not just raise prices? The lack of transparency and the feeling that you are suddenly being asked to pay much more than advertised at the end of your meal leaves a lot of customers with a bad taste in their mouth, which can make them feel "ungenerous."

3) People frustrated with an overall decline in quality of service. A lot of this is due to things beyond the servers' control -- lack of adequate staffing, for instance, can diminish service even if the servers are working hard. But there's no question that service isn't as good as it was pre-Covid, and to then also be expected to tip more for worse service feels wrong.

4) Related, but the shift towards more automated ordering makes people question what exactly they are paying for when they tip. If I use a QR code to get the menu and order my food, shouldn't I be tipping less than back when I used to have someone bring my menu, take my order, and offer a human touch to the process? It's strange to not only expect the same tip for less interaction, but to expect a higher tip than before.

I also think a lot of people are just tired of the idea that it's up to individual customers to make sure a restaurants employees are adequately compensated. A lot of people are saying they would be fine with higher prices that would enable restaurants to pay their employees more, if it meant getting rid of tips. So the restaurant pays its workers, and then customers just show up and pay the restaurant. Just like at most other businesses. It's a fair argument and has nothing to do with being ungenerous -- it has to do with not wanting to be directly in charge of compensation for someone. Going to a restaurant should feel like hiring an independent contractor.

Very nice analysis/summary. Should be pinned.

I hope an anonymous board isn't the only place your voice your concerns. Too many people just pontificate and complain on DCUM. To be frank, it does nothing here but I've been able to have a short chat with a manager at a place that had fees I wasn't sure about and they actually changed what the waiters tell you so you now know exactly that the added amount is a built-in tip.

That's good but not everyone wants to have a chat with a manager about the service fees, or a chat with the server about their compensation. Most people want to relax and not think about that stuff when they go out to eat, and the expectation that they need to be asking those questions and involving themselves in the process at all is resented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, I get that these automatic tipper buttons on bills are ubiquitous and annoying AF. I hate them as much as the next guy. But putting them aside, what I’m seeing here are a lot of posters who don’t want to tip generously as a matter of principle. They suck just as much as a tip prompt.

I think you are vastly over-simplifying. I think you are seeing several things:

1) People pushing back against the idea that the "standard" tip is now over 20%. As a couple posters have pointed out, there is no reason for the tip percentage to go up with prices are already rising -- tipping 20% on higher priced items will naturally result in a higher tip. So people are pushing back on the idea that continuing to tip 20% is suddenly no longer generous, when inflation means that it's already a higher tip than people used to leave.

2) Restaurants charging various service fees without making it clear whether that money goes to staff, and people feeling pressured to leave tips on top of service charges, which can add up to 40% to the cost of your meal. There is a feeling of being swindled in this -- where is the extra money going? Who is it for? Why not just raise prices? The lack of transparency and the feeling that you are suddenly being asked to pay much more than advertised at the end of your meal leaves a lot of customers with a bad taste in their mouth, which can make them feel "ungenerous."

3) People frustrated with an overall decline in quality of service. A lot of this is due to things beyond the servers' control -- lack of adequate staffing, for instance, can diminish service even if the servers are working hard. But there's no question that service isn't as good as it was pre-Covid, and to then also be expected to tip more for worse service feels wrong.

4) Related, but the shift towards more automated ordering makes people question what exactly they are paying for when they tip. If I use a QR code to get the menu and order my food, shouldn't I be tipping less than back when I used to have someone bring my menu, take my order, and offer a human touch to the process? It's strange to not only expect the same tip for less interaction, but to expect a higher tip than before.

I also think a lot of people are just tired of the idea that it's up to individual customers to make sure a restaurants employees are adequately compensated. A lot of people are saying they would be fine with higher prices that would enable restaurants to pay their employees more, if it meant getting rid of tips. So the restaurant pays its workers, and then customers just show up and pay the restaurant. Just like at most other businesses. It's a fair argument and has nothing to do with being ungenerous -- it has to do with not wanting to be directly in charge of compensation for someone. Going to a restaurant should feel like hiring an independent contractor.

Very nice analysis/summary. Should be pinned.

I hope an anonymous board isn't the only place your voice your concerns. Too many people just pontificate and complain on DCUM. To be frank, it does nothing here but I've been able to have a short chat with a manager at a place that had fees I wasn't sure about and they actually changed what the waiters tell you so you now know exactly that the added amount is a built-in tip.

Why the heck is it my problem to figure out who gets what? My model is simple. I pay x% as tip over and above the cost of food. Period. Item costs $50, my tip is $10 (assuming the service was good enough to earn that). If there's a service charge of, say, 15% (I don't care about the reason) I'm not tipping another 20% on top of that! It will be 5% more as my tip IF I got good service. Waiter not happy with this? Take it up with your boss.. I'm done with your service at the point you find out and likely won't be going back for a while anyways so don't really care about "bad service next time"..

[Anonymous]

Thanks to the PP on the summary up the thread. Well put! I am an Indian and in several Indian FB groups, apparently multiple people mentioned that Indian waiters (in Indian restaurants) ASKED not to be tipped as they don't see a dime of the tip. Likely they are paid living wages and the owner just keeps the tips to offset employment wages. I have no way of verifying it, but suggest that if you have cash on hand, tip waiters in Indian restaurants with cash, of course if you wish to tip to begin with

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks to the PP on the summary up the thread. Well put! I am an Indian and in several Indian FB groups, apparently multiple people mentioned that Indian waiters (in Indian restaurants) ASKED not to be tipped as they don't see a dime of the tip. Likely they are paid living wages and the owner just keeps the tips to offset employment wages. I have no way of verifying it, but suggest that if you have cash on hand, tip waiters in Indian restaurants with cash, of course if you wish to tip to begin with

That's simply wrong!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks to the PP on the summary up the thread. Well put! I am an Indian and in several Indian FB groups, apparently multiple people mentioned that Indian waiters (in Indian restaurants) ASKED not to be tipped as they don't see a dime of the tip. Likely they are paid living wages and the owner just keeps the tips to offset employment wages. I have no way of verifying it, but suggest that if you have cash on hand, tip waiters in Indian restaurants with cash, of course if you wish to tip to begin with

That's simply wrong!!

PP above, agreed it's wrong. But is that illegal? That is the problem with tips. Is there any law which says tips need to be shared with everyone working in the kitchen. or if multiple people wait on a table, one gets the water, another takes the order, and someone brings out the food , tip should be equally split? or that employer can't take the tip and provide wages above minimum?

[Anonymous]

I tip $15 an hour. It never made sense why I have to tip more for my $40 meal vs. my friend’s $20 meal especially if we each order say a drink and a main. Same amount of work. If the goal is to ensure a server or hairstylist or whoever gets minimum wage, I’ll just pay the minimum wage.

[Anonymous]

22% tips are BS.

people lost their tipping minds during covid times.

business owners, pay your employees!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, I get that these automatic tipper buttons on bills are ubiquitous and annoying AF. I hate them as much as the next guy. But putting them aside, what I’m seeing here are a lot of posters who don’t want to tip generously as a matter of principle. They suck just as much as a tip prompt.

I think you are vastly over-simplifying. I think you are seeing several things:

1) People pushing back against the idea that the "standard" tip is now over 20%. As a couple posters have pointed out, there is no reason for the tip percentage to go up with prices are already rising -- tipping 20% on higher priced items will naturally result in a higher tip. So people are pushing back on the idea that continuing to tip 20% is suddenly no longer generous, when inflation means that it's already a higher tip than people used to leave.

2) Restaurants charging various service fees without making it clear whether that money goes to staff, and people feeling pressured to leave tips on top of service charges, which can add up to 40% to the cost of your meal. There is a feeling of being swindled in this -- where is the extra money going? Who is it for? Why not just raise prices? The lack of transparency and the feeling that you are suddenly being asked to pay much more than advertised at the end of your meal leaves a lot of customers with a bad taste in their mouth, which can make them feel "ungenerous."

3) People frustrated with an overall decline in quality of service. A lot of this is due to things beyond the servers' control -- lack of adequate staffing, for instance, can diminish service even if the servers are working hard. But there's no question that service isn't as good as it was pre-Covid, and to then also be expected to tip more for worse service feels wrong.

4) Related, but the shift towards more automated ordering makes people question what exactly they are paying for when they tip. If I use a QR code to get the menu and order my food, shouldn't I be tipping less than back when I used to have someone bring my menu, take my order, and offer a human touch to the process? It's strange to not only expect the same tip for less interaction, but to expect a higher tip than before.

I also think a lot of people are just tired of the idea that it's up to individual customers to make sure a restaurants employees are adequately compensated. A lot of people are saying they would be fine with higher prices that would enable restaurants to pay their employees more, if it meant getting rid of tips. So the restaurant pays its workers, and then customers just show up and pay the restaurant. Just like at most other businesses. It's a fair argument and has nothing to do with being ungenerous -- it has to do with not wanting to be directly in charge of compensation for someone. Going to a restaurant should feel like hiring an independent contractor.

All stupid. Costs are up at restaurants but so is living costs servers, waiters don’t get the service fees, service reflects on the crappy customers. I went to a fancy steak house as a child men in fancy suits, women in dresses, limos dropping off people, everyone very well polished dresses in their best best and in best behavior. Service was impeccable.

I went back 50 years later and screaming kids, guys with baseball caps, women with pink hair and tattoos. I swear half did not shows it shave. Snapping fingers at waiters, talking loudly, spilling things. Guess what service not the same.